In 1881AD The Watchtower publication a nnounced that the door to the heavenly calling was shut.
The 144,000 were sealed and merely awaited the rapture.
Sometime later the door was opened again.
One assumes it was opened again so that those who joined the organization in 1882AD might have a "hope".
-->
Later still, in 1935AD, two classes were formally created. Those called to heaven, and those who must reside on earth. The vast majority of JayDubs consider themselves of the earthly class. There are supposedly about 7000 remaining of the heavenly class on earth.
One assumes that the necessity for the creation of a seperate earthly "class" was made clear to the organizational heirachy by a revelation from God that there were 300,000 members of the church and too many to go to heaven.
Im wonder if JW "current doctrine" is a similar expression to "present truth" in TWI lol. :D-->
How on earth they can provide a biblical explanation that a tribe is a personality type is beyond me though.
In PFAL we were informed that something like 90% of scripture interprets itself in the verse, not that I think you need to have taken it to realise that. Interpretive tangles can end up being very inconvenient and embarassing and end up in a conspiracy of silence, hoping that nobody has noticed the change.
Hiding and changing past history happens in many religious groupings. In Orwell's "1984" there is only ever one copy of any edition of the party newspaper which is rewritten as necessary to reflect the current version of events.
Hey Tref. "Present Truth" is a term used by the JayDubs.
Im sure you get the picture.
It is the "truth" you have recieved by a very dim light that gets "brighter and brighter". Unfortunately their lamps keep going out and they have to relight on a regular basis.
Considering people are talking of “present truth”….
As an interesting example of continuously shifting “present truth”, the JWitness understanding pertaining to 1975AD still stands as a classic example, and the repercussions from that prediction are still not finished even yet.
Originally the date was set in 1966 and there were two lines of Biblical proof offered to support the expectation. Pertaining to the chief of these two proofs:
That 6000 years of “Human History” would expire in 1975. In other words 6000 years since the creation of Adam.
After nothing occurred in 1975 the Watchtower rulers “humbly returned to the scriptures” to “discover what God had to teach them” about the matter. They soon learned that 1975 was indeed the date 6000 years since the creation of ADAM, but not since the Creation of the first HUMAN PAIR, which must logically include Eve. After all, how could “Human history” truly commence until there was a pair to commence breeding?? -->
Thus there must be a time delay equal to the amount of time that Adam was alone in the garden of Eden naming animals.
So far it looks as though Adam was alone at least 29 years!!
Little wonder then that he declared “this is AT LAST flesh of my flesh” upon sight of the woman. Lol. :D-->
But of course, all this only goes to demonstrate that, not only their original “truths”, but even their later revealed “truths” justifying the altering of the original “truth” need altering themselves in time. After all, how long will they be able to hold to the notion that we are in a period of time equivalent to Adams “being alone” in Eden?
Certainly not indefinitely.
So in time the “Eve” rationale will reach the point of untenability and will have to be explained away by another interpretation that, in due course will also need explaining away.
I think it will be very interesting to see an appraisal of PFAL materials from one who was never involved nor took the class and who knows the cultic mindset from experience. :D-->
JWs only celebrate the anniversary of Christs Death, Tom. It is the ONLY celebration they advocate. Once a year at about 7pm they gather to pass the crackers and Grapejuice around.
The "Memorial" is held every year, approximately around the time of the Jewish Passover. What happens is:
A talk about Jesus' ransom sacrifice is given, and towards the end of it the scriptures about the blood and the body are read, and the symbolism of the bread and wine is explained. The wine is passed around, but no one drinks from it, unless you claim to be one of the 144,000. Same happens with the bread, which is made of unleavened flour and water. The wine has to be free of preservatives and additives (in order to represent the purity of Jesus' sacrifice).
Everyone who is anyone in the congregation attends the Memorial - if you are a believing JW, you don't dare miss out attending. Non-believers are invited, especially spouses and family members of JWs. If you are able to bring along a Bible Study or Return Visit (non-JWs who show interest in JWism), then you get extra respect by your peers.
Everyone dresses up for the Memorial - it is the highlight of every JW's calender.
Anniversaries are not really "optional". Just about all JWs celebrate wedding anniversaries - it's the only thing they can legitimately celebrate.
I've noticed over the past decade or so, that many JWs make it a family celebration, in which the children receive presents as well. Since they dont celebrate birthdays or Christmas, it is the only time the family can get together and swap presents, without the fear of Armageddon hanging over their heads :(-->
Satan , who goes about "like a roaring Lion" insidiously worming his way into their lives thru tricking them into "compromising" and "searing" their "christian consciences".
It's becoming pretty clear as to how both you (Prisca & Refiner) can understand our past mindsets, your former religion is as mind constraining as ours was, just a different flavor of kool-aid. :(-->
Gluttony? Stop misleading the masses, Refiner, you cult-leader-wannabe :P-->
The reason why people dont drink the wine or eat the unleavened bread is because only those who think they are of the 144,000 class are allowed to. And there's only 7000 of this "class", out of approx 3 million JWs.
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Refiner
Regarding the 144,000 co rulers with Christ.
In 1881AD The Watchtower publication a nnounced that the door to the heavenly calling was shut.
The 144,000 were sealed and merely awaited the rapture.
Sometime later the door was opened again.
One assumes it was opened again so that those who joined the organization in 1882AD might have a "hope".
Later still, in 1935AD, two classes were formally created. Those called to heaven, and those who must reside on earth. The vast majority of JayDubs consider themselves of the earthly class. There are supposedly about 7000 remaining of the heavenly class on earth.
One assumes that the necessity for the creation of a seperate earthly "class" was made clear to the organizational heirachy by a revelation from God that there were 300,000 members of the church and too many to go to heaven.
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Refiner
There have been 7000 members of the heavely class remaining for as log as I can remember.
They simply will not DIE!
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Trefor Heywood
Im wonder if JW "current doctrine" is a similar expression to "present truth" in TWI lol.
:D-->
How on earth they can provide a biblical explanation that a tribe is a personality type is beyond me though.
In PFAL we were informed that something like 90% of scripture interprets itself in the verse, not that I think you need to have taken it to realise that. Interpretive tangles can end up being very inconvenient and embarassing and end up in a conspiracy of silence, hoping that nobody has noticed the change.
Hiding and changing past history happens in many religious groupings. In Orwell's "1984" there is only ever one copy of any edition of the party newspaper which is rewritten as necessary to reflect the current version of events.
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Refiner
Hey Tref. "Present Truth" is a term used by the JayDubs.
Im sure you get the picture.
It is the "truth" you have recieved by a very dim light that gets "brighter and brighter". Unfortunately their lamps keep going out and they have to relight on a regular basis.
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Tom Strange
...so they bring the crackers and grape juice to communion and nobody gets to have any? ...bummer!
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Raf
Tom,
It really is a twisted communion service.
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houseisarockin
Refiner, are you feeling better now? Your getting replies in Prisca's thread.
:)-->
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Refiner
As long as people listen to my soapbox speeches I dont care which street corner its on.
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houseisarockin
Well you have lots of suds in that soapbox to share. I had no idea twi is only one amongst many whacko religions.
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Refiner
Considering people are talking of “present truth”….
As an interesting example of continuously shifting “present truth”, the JWitness understanding pertaining to 1975AD still stands as a classic example, and the repercussions from that prediction are still not finished even yet.
Originally the date was set in 1966 and there were two lines of Biblical proof offered to support the expectation. Pertaining to the chief of these two proofs:
That 6000 years of “Human History” would expire in 1975. In other words 6000 years since the creation of Adam.
After nothing occurred in 1975 the Watchtower rulers “humbly returned to the scriptures” to “discover what God had to teach them” about the matter. They soon learned that 1975 was indeed the date 6000 years since the creation of ADAM, but not since the Creation of the first HUMAN PAIR, which must logically include Eve. After all, how could “Human history” truly commence until there was a pair to commence breeding??
-->
Thus there must be a time delay equal to the amount of time that Adam was alone in the garden of Eden naming animals.
So far it looks as though Adam was alone at least 29 years!!
Little wonder then that he declared “this is AT LAST flesh of my flesh” upon sight of the woman. Lol.
:D-->
But of course, all this only goes to demonstrate that, not only their original “truths”, but even their later revealed “truths” justifying the altering of the original “truth” need altering themselves in time. After all, how long will they be able to hold to the notion that we are in a period of time equivalent to Adams “being alone” in Eden?
Certainly not indefinitely.
So in time the “Eve” rationale will reach the point of untenability and will have to be explained away by another interpretation that, in due course will also need explaining away.
It is an endless ongoing cycle.
:(-->
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Refiner
If you think this is bad, wait till I get the Wierwille books and start in an examination of VPW and TWI.
:D-->
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Trefor Heywood
I think it will be very interesting to see an appraisal of PFAL materials from one who was never involved nor took the class and who knows the cultic mindset from experience.
:D-->
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excathedra
yeah i already like the one where i could have sworn he was quoting the "blue book"
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Tom Strange
Raf... I forgot... JW's call it "a memorial" don't they? ... or is that just the name of the service where they have the communion?
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Refiner
JWs only celebrate the anniversary of Christs Death, Tom. It is the ONLY celebration they advocate. Once a year at about 7pm they gather to pass the crackers and Grapejuice around.
Its a dull party, let me tell you.
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Raf
Yours was a party?
:)--> It's a disservice to the word "party" to even use it to describe that exercise in nothingness. "Celebration." Yawwwwn.
Actually, anniversaries are optional, if I recall correctly.
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The Girl From Oz
Has Refiner stepped off his soapbox yet?
;)-->
The "Memorial" is held every year, approximately around the time of the Jewish Passover. What happens is:
A talk about Jesus' ransom sacrifice is given, and towards the end of it the scriptures about the blood and the body are read, and the symbolism of the bread and wine is explained. The wine is passed around, but no one drinks from it, unless you claim to be one of the 144,000. Same happens with the bread, which is made of unleavened flour and water. The wine has to be free of preservatives and additives (in order to represent the purity of Jesus' sacrifice).
Everyone who is anyone in the congregation attends the Memorial - if you are a believing JW, you don't dare miss out attending. Non-believers are invited, especially spouses and family members of JWs. If you are able to bring along a Bible Study or Return Visit (non-JWs who show interest in JWism), then you get extra respect by your peers.
Everyone dresses up for the Memorial - it is the highlight of every JW's calender.
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The Girl From Oz
Anniversaries are not really "optional". Just about all JWs celebrate wedding anniversaries - it's the only thing they can legitimately celebrate.
I've noticed over the past decade or so, that many JWs make it a family celebration, in which the children receive presents as well. Since they dont celebrate birthdays or Christmas, it is the only time the family can get together and swap presents, without the fear of Armageddon hanging over their heads
:(-->
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Refiner
They "compromise with the world"?
Their "spirituality" must be "weak".
The "Temptations of the world" luring them.
Satan , who goes about "like a roaring Lion" insidiously worming his way into their lives thru tricking them into "compromising" and "searing" their "christian consciences".
Just thought id throw in a few JW Cliches
GFO
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houseisarockin
It's becoming pretty clear as to how both you (Prisca & Refiner) can understand our past mindsets, your former religion is as mind constraining as ours was, just a different flavor of kool-aid.
:(-->
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excathedra
(it would be fun to go as a newbie and take a big gulp)
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Refiner
Not much of a hit Exy. Theres only a thimble full.
They wouldnt want to encourage anyone to the sin of gluttony
-->
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The Girl From Oz
Gluttony? Stop misleading the masses, Refiner, you cult-leader-wannabe
:P-->
The reason why people dont drink the wine or eat the unleavened bread is because only those who think they are of the 144,000 class are allowed to. And there's only 7000 of this "class", out of approx 3 million JWs.
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Nottawayfer
What is the promising thing to keep the remaining approximately 2,993,000 JWs in if they aren't "one of the elect"?
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