Out of the Closet To Stay

[Trefor Heywood]

Rejoice:

quote:

---

I have utmost respect for your honesty. I have to ask---are you still a follower of the Lord regardless? So many gay people seem to think they cannot be.

---

And seeing some contributions made in these pages from some of his followers that's hardly a surprise.

[Steve!]

Ummm, Eagle, males have XY and females have XX - there is no such thing as YY.

The mother *always* contributes an X chromosome. The father eithe contributes an X or a Y.

Hence the XX or XY.

In vitro, everyone starts out female. During development, the hormone Androgen kicks in and turns people with XY chromosomes into males. If something goes wrong with the process, then unexpected results occur. One of those results is hermaphroditism - that is, someone that has the sex organs of both genders.

Another result of a mistake is someone that is genetically male but is female in appearance - including the sex organs.

[Steve!]

And apart from all that -

I don't know what to believe regarding homosexuality. But you know what? It doesn't f**king matter what I believe! Or what you believe!

God didn't put us here to judge. He put us here to love Him and to love people.

Guess what? We're *not* going to make this world a better place. There will never be anything like world peace - that is, until the return.

As long as people continue to focus on things of the flesh, they'll be taking time away from positive things they *could* be doing instead.

God doesn't tell me to ostracize. All God tells me to do is to love Him with all my heart, soul, mind and strength, and love my neighbor as myself.

I don't have the space available in my head for harboring hatred.

[def59]

Disagreeing with someone's lifestyle is not hatred. When arguments are reduced to that level, all hope for rational discussion is lost.

[Eagle]

Thanks, Steve!

I was trying to take this from memory. I'm glad someone here knows biology.

But I have to agree with def59. Disagreeing with homosexuality is not hatred. Trying to reduce honest discourse whether you like the discourse or not stifles debate and a pursuit to find the truth, whether gayness is right or wrong. People who believe that have an abbreviated sense of the First Amendment.

[Steve!]

Okay, I'm not saying that honest discourse is equivalent to hatred. I've just seen far too many posts where a pretense of honest discourse was made as a cover for hatred.

And I am completely against the use of the word "homophobe".

I just think that if God is totally against homosexuality, it's up to God to work in an individual for that individual to "overcome" that proclivity.

It ain't my job to decide what's right and what's wrong.

[dmiller]

One of my sisters is a lesbian;

My best co-worker at the Noumenon House is gay;

Both claim to be Christian;

They both know my feelings about the *lifestyle*,

And we get along just fine.

Disagreement is not hatred, as both of you pointed out (Def & Steve!), and I have to agree. If nothing else, it leads to healthy discussion about something that remains tenuous at best, and both parties learn from each other, to the point where acceptance (on both sides) may actually become a factor involved.

Daryl -- You are the most "entertaining" person in chat (well -- maybe next to Shell), and it is a slow night when you are not there. Do what you got to do, say what you need to say, and be who you need to be.

btw -- if you can drag yourself out of the booksore, and get to the museum --- say hi to SUE for me :D-->

Hey -- maybe that relic was actually a "boy", and not a girl.

Would that make it the original "Boy Named Sue"?

[suz]

I am guessing its time for me to come out now and be honest....

I have allowed God to make me a Democrat.

I sure hope I DON'T get judged by anyone here.

(I would loose sleep over it for sure ;)--> )

Daryl, I love ya man,

and YOU know it!!

xxxooo Suz

If we all could be so honest as Daryl, not JUST in our minds but openly as my brother does in this thread.

[Nottawayfer]

I totally agree with love being the most important equalizer in our lives. I went round and round in my head about what I believed about homosexuality for quite a bit of time after leaving twi. I decided I would not judge people and would see them for WHO they were, yet I didn't want to deny what I knew from the Bible. It weighs so heavily because of the verse twit threw at us about being as "bad" (whatever THAT means) as homosexuals if we don't disagree with the life-style. As with anything else twitville taught, I threw it to the curb for further assessment in my life. I want to love people.

Along the way I met several wonderful gay people (I agree that chat would not be the same without our beloved Daryl!). The thing I saw was that there are several different individuals in the gay community. Just like in any other community, there are those that are honest, trustworthy individuals with which you would love to have a friendship, and there are others who are not so lovable.

Some would perceive that gay men who sleep around with hundreds of lovers are the most detestable, but they really aren't any more "slutty" than the hetero men who have a mind-set to go out, get drunk, and get themselves laid. The hetero men are perceived as practicing their "maleness". Sorry, I didn't mean to pick on the male species. I've seen women do this too.

[excathedra]

haven't followed the gay discussion closely but just want to say i have doubts about all scripture KJV or AOV (any other version) being GOD

[maptl]

Dear Daryl,

I have met many wonderful believers with whom I adore that have fought and some won, some struggled with the rest of their life with until their death with things in their closet. The challenge isn't in my judgment of you but of you learning to listen to God's heart. I think where we were way off in the ministry was that we said that homosexuality was the "lowest on the totem pole". I have seen people wrestle with drug, alcohol, bitterness, greed, and other challenges in this life that has been just as impacting on them and their love ones. What in my 50 years have seen is we all have skeletons in our closet. But our focus no matter what the skeleton is that we try to live as one that belongs to God. There are things I have seen in Romans that would explain why it seems as if you have been this way via "since before you had pubic hair". I just think the Christian world is to scared to take an honest look at it because it holds that we all could be way more susceptible to all vices that the world has to offer. This is your life and your heart and I pray you can no matter what you do sexually, hear the voice of God and walk by the spirit. I laugh when people are so quick to judge because if they only knew how many of their so called leaders in the Way and even today fall to the old man nature they would be shocked! But as Christians everyone wants to feel as if we have a special wall around them that is impermeable if we do the "right things" we wont be touched by those things that could distract us. But they forget that in Tim it says

2 Tim 3:12

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

(KJV)

The biggest error in the Way was taught that if we were getting persecuted we were not living Godly. I pray you find peace in your heart brother and listen to God's still small voice! And no matter what your challenge that you come across with you go to Him for I know he will answer you!!!! That's our God and FAther!

[Sudo]

Suz,

Re:"I am guessing its time for me to come out now and be honest..I have allowed God to make me a Democrat....

It's OK, girl, we understand. You did the right thing in confessing this sin to us. We won't judge you here in our midst, Suz. We ALL have our weaker moments, so let him who is without sin cast the first stone, I say.

Of course *I* never had any proclivities towards being a Democrat myself. But then I never had any proclivities for the sin of homosexuality either. Oh, maybe that one time or two in the dorm room back in college but heck.. we were really drunk and all.

So let us all lift Sister Suzie and her avowed Democrat ways.. and pray for her deliverance from the debbil spurt known as LIBERALISM... a 5-start debbil spurt if I've ever known one.. and I've known plenty of 'em I tell you. Did I tell you guys about the one I ran into in the women's dorm down at Ole Miss?? Gawd, I never thought she'd let me go but I prayed about it and am c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e-l-y forgiven thankyouverymuch. Anyways...

We're all a'prayin' for you Suz! :P-->

sudo

[suz]

"The Sin of Homosexuality"???????

Sin is sin and we are all sinners!!

Some of us choose our sins, others don't.

God is God, some of us choose our God and others don't.

Life is life, we live with it or choose to ignore it and hope it will all change someday, so that we can "be" what society deems as correct, or right, or wrong, or sinfull.

I still believe God looks on the heart of man, not his "sinfull nature".

I personally know sweet Daryl and I don't care if he is an Ape, or a Communist, or a Buddist, or anything else! He is the sweetest guy!!! Polite, kind, generous and lives and projects more "christianity" than the saintliest of saints! So if thats living sin then bring on the sinners, Like Billy Joel sings, the sinners are much more fun,

bring on the sinners, rather than the "religious" "judgemental" "christians"

any o'l time!

Daryl my friend, I love you!

suzie, the sinful Democrat :D-->

[Steve!]

I dunno, I don't see too many places in the Bible where leaders point and say, "Thou sinner! Away with ye!"

One of the only places I can think of where a sinner was being accused was where the Pharisees were about to stone a woman caught in adultery, and Jesus came and said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

If homosexuality is a sin, why is it my job to go pointing fingers and screaming? We've ALL sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Isn't sin that's something between an individual and God? Isn't it God's job to turn someone's heart away from sin? You don't convince someone to turn away from sin because he ought to. Smatter of fact, I've never turned ANYONE away from sin except myself - but I've shown a few people HOW to turn from sin.

[vickles]

exactly steve, I second what you say!!!!!