now your making it hard, satori....well to them reproof on the outside was that they loved us ssssoooo much that they only wanted to help us. Of course it was only used to intimidate and put us down to make themselves look better.
The Pastoral Epistles of 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus - upon which the Way based it's "rightly-dividing" theology and resultant Biblatry - and which provided the "rods" with which we beat each other over the heads - are wholly fiction, penned under the pseudonym of "Paul".
That is the conclusion to which most NT scholars have arrived for well over the past 100 years.
I find it ironic that Wierwille, who gave much lip-service to the idea of "forgeries" in scripture, gave so little attention to the actual scholarship done in this area.
And then he proceeded to put many under the weight of this pseudonymous ecclesiastical fiction, which is about as characteristically
"Pauline" as my left fake foot.
I prefer to recognise the Pastorals for the fiction that they are, and to approach them as such, rather than literally believing them and "applying" them and declaring open season on human beings, as had happened in the Way to such devastating proportions.
So if Timothy & Titus represent themselves to be the work of Paul, and they are not, that opens a big old can of worms. Somebody's gonna get reproved for that.
Can you ignore this? None of it is aimed at you..and in no way am I trying to pick a fight for you.
Anyway....
Reproof at Gspot.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
what a thought.
I don't know that I have ever paid attention to anything posted here at gspot as REPROOF.
"YOU ARE AND IDIOT", "YOU ARE A LIAR", "YOU ARE EVIL," "YOU ARE WAYBRAINED AND DELUSIONAL"....yes....I have seen all of those, and most probably have been and said all of those things.....plus a couple of more like "you are an idiot, you are the anti-christ and you are an alien."
For me, it has always been about the topic, and about what I *perceived* as the truthfulness and motive of the poster.
I have apologized my fair share of times. Admitted I am an idiot my fair share of times....and sent more that one poster an email, a letter or flowers begging for forgiveness.
Every once in a while, I have encountered a poster where there has been NO COMMON ground....so be it.
Recently, I had a forum brawl with an individual that had pushed all my buttons for the very LAST TIME. It wasn't about who was right or who was wrong. It was TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY about how sick and tired I was of that particular approach to life. I made that clear in my posts, and from where I sit in life right now.....I will never change my position. Will I change in 5 years....maybe. Is he the Anti-christ......no......did he finally push every button on my *mother board* YES. Am I sorry for anything typed and posted.....no.
My point is this......Greasespot is about many things, to many people.
To me, it is about EXPOSING THE WAY INTERNATIONAL AND ITS' BOARD OF TRUSTEES.
For some, it is about challenging the *way brain thinking* and helping people overcome waybrain. For others, it is about having their say.....or a gazillion other things.
To you newbies, lurkers, and everyone else......THERE IS ROOM FOR EVERYONE here at Greasespot. There is healing, challenge, recovery (on a certain level.)
How do I handle *reproof*???????? I don't. How do I handle life at greasepot? Sometimes well....sometimes not so well.
first off, i like the title of this thread. it made me laugh.
secondly, dabobbada, i thought your post was about me
this is a great question. i think if someone sounds like a wierwille worshipper or triggers something in me, then i flip out (i'm certainly not saying it's THEIR fault)
it's taken me years to get up some guts to express myself. and then when i get reproved for expressing myself, i want to run away and hide (you see, dabobbada ;)-->) or fight like hell
i think if we were in person, it would be a lot easier and we would like each other a whole lot more
**
doctrine - you get taught right believing
reproof - you are shown where you're not believing rightly
After spending the last hour raising my wife's stuck car & front car wheel out of an icy pot-hole in a neighbors driveway, crawling on the mud & ice around the car with a tire jack
How does all this compare with ordinary, run of the mill, human interaction - without all the cult baggage? People reprove one another all the time. They use other standard's than the bible. Which standards?
My job requires I reprove or I call it correct people I'm responsible for. For me it has worked the best to state the issue in questionable action on and why it needs to be done this way from an informational perspective. Then I ask them if they feel if they are performing at that level. I've only once had someone try to squirm out of my request but we came to an understanding fairly quickly.
Reproof to me is correction. In work it is not optional. And in this way I believe we can all be partakers in, since none are perfect.
And Mr. Hammeroni when I said you would receive it well, that was what I meant. You seem workable when mentally provoked.
In twi it was in your face, you don't need to know the depth of it, that's the problem don't you see, you don't see. Well okay I guess but play that back and just see if it made any sense to you mister. -->
This has sort of taken off in another direction, but I did want to say thanks to waterbuffalo. And satori is correct about the humor. Pretty lame, I know, so it's hard to tell sometimes what's supposed to be funny and what's not, but neither of us were serious.
dabobbada: Enjoyed your spoof, especially the revenge part. Hope you're feeling triumphant now that you put me in my place. :)-->
Dang, is anybody who disagrees with you reproving you? Methinks not.
Heck, I'm old enuff to know what I'm talking about. If you don't agree, then fine, you disagree, but I don't take it as
reproof.
Ok, I have had a stupid attack or two in the forums. I have said dumb stuff that makes no sense to anybody. But, George Aar usually picks up on it, and lets me know. So he's the only poster I take "reproof" from. Well, except maybe Satori. Those two are qualified, in my not so humble opinion. Ok, laleo, you too. :)--> I better quit before my list gets too long.....
Anybody else, get in line, and take a number. :D-->
Okay, well I'm going to try to tie this thing into our experience at WayWhirled.
Reproof was a value-added service, provided as a benefit of our (unofficial) membership in The Way. You weren't just reproved for the shortcoming or misdeed, you were informed of its spiritual significance.
Some stuff I've been reproved for in the Way, the offense, and the significance:
1. For being late to a Fellowship Leaders' meeting - I delayed the beginning of the meeting, and I showed disrespect to the man of God, indicating a heart that was neither loving nor meek
2. For eating a cookie provided for the PFAL class break - I stole the cookie - not just from anybody, but from God Himself.
3. For pouring a cold cup of coffee in the bushes - I was showing disrepect for the grounds (not the coffee grounds, the campus grounds) and killing the bush that belonged to God. I did manage to point out that coffee was biodegradable, and not toxic - to which my reprover said, "Well, what if EVERYBODY poured their coffee on the bush??" I had no answer, but only because the question's manifest stupidity was so overwhelming it left me speechless - permitting the reprover to have his satisfaction, and I was just embarrassed in front of his little audience.
If only I'd known then what I know now, I'd have seen these sucker punches for what they were and been prepared for them. Oh well.
Now, this stuff can't happen at Greasespot, not nearly as much anyway. For one thing, we can sit back and read before we respond. For another, we submit to no one here. Your God, as you understand God, may or may not be my God, as I do. Certainly, your understanding of "truth" is your own, and mine is my own. There is no common "standard for truth" here, except what we know is true by our own knowledge and experience.
No matter, we still reprove each other, but for what? Much better reasons maybe. If we are arguing about TWI, then our arguments are either sound, or unsound. As laleo points out, logical reproof is a good persuader.
What have you been reproved here for? I could make a long, long list, most if it being not too valid, some very insightful.
I find reproof has a subject and an object. The subject is the reproof topic. The object is the reproof reason, usually another thing entirely.
In The Way, the subject of reproof was a specific failure of some kind, according to TWI's biblical/extra-biblical codes of behavior, or as the other person had it "revealed unto" them. The object was what the person was really after - usually a contest of dominance/submission, much like wild dogs may snarl at one another in a pack, or roosters challenging each other in a pen, to establish their place in the pecking order.
Our wonderful ministry, huh keeds? The rungs on the ministry career and social ladders were made of people, and how high you got was more and more directly related to how many people you stepped on. Didn't apply to everyone, but it became the prevalent means (I believe) by the early 80's.
Does reproof bother you? Does it have to have some basis in fact to have an emotional impact? What if you know it is wrong? Does it bother you anyway, or does that allow you to write it off?
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vickles
now your making it hard, satori....well to them reproof on the outside was that they loved us ssssoooo much that they only wanted to help us. Of course it was only used to intimidate and put us down to make themselves look better.
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Ham
Back at der vey, I am suprized they did not sport leather..
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TheInvisibleDan
The Pastoral Epistles of 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus - upon which the Way based it's "rightly-dividing" theology and resultant Biblatry - and which provided the "rods" with which we beat each other over the heads - are wholly fiction, penned under the pseudonym of "Paul".
That is the conclusion to which most NT scholars have arrived for well over the past 100 years.
I find it ironic that Wierwille, who gave much lip-service to the idea of "forgeries" in scripture, gave so little attention to the actual scholarship done in this area.
And then he proceeded to put many under the weight of this pseudonymous ecclesiastical fiction, which is about as characteristically
"Pauline" as my left fake foot.
I prefer to recognise the Pastorals for the fiction that they are, and to approach them as such, rather than literally believing them and "applying" them and declaring open season on human beings, as had happened in the Way to such devastating proportions.
Danny
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satori001
So if Timothy & Titus represent themselves to be the work of Paul, and they are not, that opens a big old can of worms. Somebody's gonna get reproved for that.
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Radar OReilly
Satori,
Can you ignore this? None of it is aimed at you..and in no way am I trying to pick a fight for you.
Anyway....
Reproof at Gspot.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
what a thought.
I don't know that I have ever paid attention to anything posted here at gspot as REPROOF.
"YOU ARE AND IDIOT", "YOU ARE A LIAR", "YOU ARE EVIL," "YOU ARE WAYBRAINED AND DELUSIONAL"....yes....I have seen all of those, and most probably have been and said all of those things.....plus a couple of more like "you are an idiot, you are the anti-christ and you are an alien."
For me, it has always been about the topic, and about what I *perceived* as the truthfulness and motive of the poster.
I have apologized my fair share of times. Admitted I am an idiot my fair share of times....and sent more that one poster an email, a letter or flowers begging for forgiveness.
Every once in a while, I have encountered a poster where there has been NO COMMON ground....so be it.
Recently, I had a forum brawl with an individual that had pushed all my buttons for the very LAST TIME. It wasn't about who was right or who was wrong. It was TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY about how sick and tired I was of that particular approach to life. I made that clear in my posts, and from where I sit in life right now.....I will never change my position. Will I change in 5 years....maybe. Is he the Anti-christ......no......did he finally push every button on my *mother board* YES. Am I sorry for anything typed and posted.....no.
My point is this......Greasespot is about many things, to many people.
To me, it is about EXPOSING THE WAY INTERNATIONAL AND ITS' BOARD OF TRUSTEES.
For some, it is about challenging the *way brain thinking* and helping people overcome waybrain. For others, it is about having their say.....or a gazillion other things.
To you newbies, lurkers, and everyone else......THERE IS ROOM FOR EVERYONE here at Greasespot. There is healing, challenge, recovery (on a certain level.)
How do I handle *reproof*???????? I don't. How do I handle life at greasepot? Sometimes well....sometimes not so well.
ror
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excathedra
first off, i like the title of this thread. it made me laugh.
secondly, dabobbada, i thought your post was about me
this is a great question. i think if someone sounds like a wierwille worshipper or triggers something in me, then i flip out (i'm certainly not saying it's THEIR fault)
it's taken me years to get up some guts to express myself. and then when i get reproved for expressing myself, i want to run away and hide (you see, dabobbada
;)-->) or fight like hell
i think if we were in person, it would be a lot easier and we would like each other a whole lot more
**
doctrine - you get taught right believing
reproof - you are shown where you're not believing rightly
correction - we get you back to believing rightly
lmao
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excathedra
thank you danny, you rock !
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washingtonweather
i cry...then come out swinging
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excathedra
sometimes i come out fighting and then i cry
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Tom Strange
Radar... I'm an alien... (I'm not afraid to admit it)
Danyoucannotsee... you always look so deep in thought, so peaceful...
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excathedra
my favorite martian
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Tom Strange
kisses and hugs to you myseestorEx
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TheInvisibleDan
{{{Excy & Tom }}}
your cuddly lovebombs,
hugging me like a warm blanket
on a cold winter evening.
After spending the last hour raising my wife's stuck car & front car wheel out of an icy pot-hole in a neighbors driveway, crawling on the mud & ice around the car with a tire jack
and wood logs.
And no I didn't "reprove" her.
:)-->
All we could do was laugh.
Danny
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houseisarockin
My job requires I reprove or I call it correct people I'm responsible for. For me it has worked the best to state the issue in questionable action on and why it needs to be done this way from an informational perspective. Then I ask them if they feel if they are performing at that level. I've only once had someone try to squirm out of my request but we came to an understanding fairly quickly.
Reproof to me is correction. In work it is not optional. And in this way I believe we can all be partakers in, since none are perfect.
And Mr. Hammeroni when I said you would receive it well, that was what I meant. You seem workable when mentally provoked.
In twi it was in your face, you don't need to know the depth of it, that's the problem don't you see, you don't see. Well okay I guess but play that back and just see if it made any sense to you mister.
-->
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excathedra
**
danny boy, i would love bomb you any day of the week. you're just so bombible mwah
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houseisarockin
Oh come on now, we'll have fun, I promise.
:)-->
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krys
geese - I hope I didn't walk in on something in here....excie and house!
sheesh!
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laleo
This has sort of taken off in another direction, but I did want to say thanks to waterbuffalo. And satori is correct about the humor. Pretty lame, I know, so it's hard to tell sometimes what's supposed to be funny and what's not, but neither of us were serious.
dabobbada: Enjoyed your spoof, especially the revenge part. Hope you're feeling triumphant now that you put me in my place.
:)-->
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ex10
Well, getting back to the original question,
Dang, is anybody who disagrees with you reproving you? Methinks not.
Heck, I'm old enuff to know what I'm talking about. If you don't agree, then fine, you disagree, but I don't take it as
reproof.
Ok, I have had a stupid attack or two in the forums. I have said dumb stuff that makes no sense to anybody. But, George Aar usually picks up on it, and lets me know. So he's the only poster I take "reproof" from. Well, except maybe Satori. Those two are qualified, in my not so humble opinion. Ok, laleo, you too.
:)--> I better quit before my list gets too long.....
Anybody else, get in line, and take a number.
:D-->
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Oakspear
1
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satori001
Okay, well I'm going to try to tie this thing into our experience at WayWhirled.
Reproof was a value-added service, provided as a benefit of our (unofficial) membership in The Way. You weren't just reproved for the shortcoming or misdeed, you were informed of its spiritual significance.
Some stuff I've been reproved for in the Way, the offense, and the significance:
1. For being late to a Fellowship Leaders' meeting - I delayed the beginning of the meeting, and I showed disrespect to the man of God, indicating a heart that was neither loving nor meek
2. For eating a cookie provided for the PFAL class break - I stole the cookie - not just from anybody, but from God Himself.
3. For pouring a cold cup of coffee in the bushes - I was showing disrepect for the grounds (not the coffee grounds, the campus grounds) and killing the bush that belonged to God. I did manage to point out that coffee was biodegradable, and not toxic - to which my reprover said, "Well, what if EVERYBODY poured their coffee on the bush??" I had no answer, but only because the question's manifest stupidity was so overwhelming it left me speechless - permitting the reprover to have his satisfaction, and I was just embarrassed in front of his little audience.
If only I'd known then what I know now, I'd have seen these sucker punches for what they were and been prepared for them. Oh well.
Now, this stuff can't happen at Greasespot, not nearly as much anyway. For one thing, we can sit back and read before we respond. For another, we submit to no one here. Your God, as you understand God, may or may not be my God, as I do. Certainly, your understanding of "truth" is your own, and mine is my own. There is no common "standard for truth" here, except what we know is true by our own knowledge and experience.
No matter, we still reprove each other, but for what? Much better reasons maybe. If we are arguing about TWI, then our arguments are either sound, or unsound. As laleo points out, logical reproof is a good persuader.
What have you been reproved here for? I could make a long, long list, most if it being not too valid, some very insightful.
I find reproof has a subject and an object. The subject is the reproof topic. The object is the reproof reason, usually another thing entirely.
In The Way, the subject of reproof was a specific failure of some kind, according to TWI's biblical/extra-biblical codes of behavior, or as the other person had it "revealed unto" them. The object was what the person was really after - usually a contest of dominance/submission, much like wild dogs may snarl at one another in a pack, or roosters challenging each other in a pen, to establish their place in the pecking order.
Our wonderful ministry, huh keeds? The rungs on the ministry career and social ladders were made of people, and how high you got was more and more directly related to how many people you stepped on. Didn't apply to everyone, but it became the prevalent means (I believe) by the early 80's.
Does reproof bother you? Does it have to have some basis in fact to have an emotional impact? What if you know it is wrong? Does it bother you anyway, or does that allow you to write it off?
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krys
Reproof is in reference to a standard of some sort.
Point of view, or opinion doesn't need a standard.
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ex10
Ohmigosh, Oak.
Consider me reproved.
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houseisarockin
Nah, we were playing.
I think I had a point here but not sure it applies to the thread.
See you winged one.
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