My time line may be a little off, but I am pretty sure those folks left after the Allxn lawsuit? I guess I thought that WayDale was up before the lawsuits came out.
Allxn Lxcht and wife (Dxbby?) were two great individuals. Allxn was one of my favorite leaders around, down to earth and very funny. They had their times of LCMishness, but who at that level didn't and weren't pressured to be so.
My timeline is from my restricted innie perspective. I remember hearing about the Lxchts right after I heard about the lawsuit. It's not like they would have told us pions that leaders split without a good reason for leaving. The lawsuit became (I'm sure it was part of it) the reason.
But good point about online stories. It can only help. I wonder whe it was that a they started really harping on us to not veiw these cop-out's websites. I must have been after these computer savvy leaders left. Actually I am pretty sure it was.
quote:But good point about online stories. It can only help. I wonder whe it was that a they started really harping on us to not veiw these cop-out's websites. I must have been after these computer savvy leaders left. Actually I am pretty sure it was.
lindy......as best I recall, the "public release version" of lcm's "one-time affair" was in April 1999. Knowing that Pxxl Allxn's waydale was up and cranking out information......twi told their followers that going online to anti-way websites could get them possessed.
In the last five years.....twi has gone underground. Twi's written communication has greatly diminished. Lists of yearly leadership assignments is no longer sent out. Announcements, assignments and numbers involved hardly get a mention on a SNS tape.
In the last five years.....twi has become more covert. It's NO WONDER that, when settling out of court with Pxxl Allxn, one of the demanded requests of twi was to CLOSE DOWN WAYDALE!!
Long live Greasespot Cafe.....and keep telling those first-hand experiences.
No, Pxnarxllos left in Sep/Oct of 2002.....I'm fairly certain.
You might be thinking of the Lxllys.....they asked to be Branch Coordinators in Austin, rather than keep doing the Region. From what I heard, the night before believers were coming over to help them move into another apartment/townhouse.....the Lxllys drove away in the middle of the night with their stuff.
In this way, the Lxllys avoided the face-melting confrontation from the new Region guy!
quote: ...the Lxllys drove away in the middle of the night with their stuff.
In this way, the Lxllys avoided the face-melting confrontation from the new Region guy!
Wow! They sure were running scared!
Thanks for straightening the dates out for me about the P*narello's. But I thought they too sorta' took off in the night?
Maybe I'm confusing them with the rest of the chicken ....s who couldn't take the heat! Ya they sure were good at dishing it out but they certainly couldn't take it!
You might be thinking of the Lxllys.....they asked to be Branch Coordinators in Austin, rather than keep doing the Region. From what I heard, the night before believers were coming over to help them move into another apartment/townhouse.....the Lxllys drove away in the middle of the night with their stuff.
In this way, the Lxllys avoided the face-melting confrontation from the new Region guy!
I find that quite ironic. They specialized in melting faces.
Paul & Bev M**qu*da didn't skulk out of town. Not at all. They left shortly after he taught the live DTA class on Memorial Day weekend in 2000. Oh, and they were in the Pacific NW - Washington, I believe.
There's a document on the GS main site called "How to Extracate Yourself: A Guide to Liberty" (click here)
John and I had only met Paul once each at the Advanced Classes in RC sometime in the mid 90's. When he saw John's "Letters to Rosalie" on Waydale - he called us to make sure we were okay. I think he spent 2 hours on the phone with John assuring him he'd made the right decision about writing those letters and leaving TWI for good.
I'm sure you could reach him without looking too far. He might even be lurking here.
Like I said, I never had too many encounters with him before the "new" AC - and I'm sure there are people out there who may not like him (he was the Family Corps Coor.), but I don't believe he's hiding from anyone - he's probably just busy getting on with his life.
Hope, unless I mis-read it, I don't think Sky was saying they skulked out. He was just giving the chronology of who left when and how it corresponds to the lawsuits and WayDale.
The Lall*s were the only ones to really leave under cover of night, weren't they?
I thought I heard the P*narellos were trying to start their own cult using what they learned in TWI.
I remember the All*n lawsuit coming up in April 2000. It was a year after they were booted off staff.
The L*chts were in Michigan, and they definitely left after hearing about lcm's crap. I think it started in April 2000. They left, and there was quite an uproar. They were required to apologize to lcm. They came back shortly, and then they left again.
The Lichts had been the region coordinators in MICHIGAN from 1993 thru their leaving twi. They left from MI.
John and Mary Lou Shroyer had been in Florida and had been unceremoniously *dumped* by lcm in 1995, replaced by The Moneyhands who are still there.
Waydale was indeed up running around 11 months prior to their filing their lawsuit.
The CLAPPS and the Mosq**das left over the BENNETT lawsuit.
Just for the RECORD....the Allens were NOT FIRED from twi staff. Paul Allen confronted LCM and the trustees, including John Reynolds in an OSC conference room. He offered them and ultimatum, they declined, he went back to his unit, packed up his wife, and belongings and left. THEY NEVER LOOKED BACK.
Lindy, I knew the Lichts here in Michigan and adored them, they were very good to me both in and on my way out of TWI.
"The L*chts were in Michigan, and they definitely left after hearing about lcm's crap. I think it started in April 2000. They left, and there was quite an uproar. They were required to apologize to lcm. They came back shortly, and then they left again."
Wayfer, the Lichts were definitely still here in Michigan in 2000. They left after the announcement about LCM. But I never knew they left, came back, and left again.
"t least that's what I remember when I was there. "
Wayfer, were you here in Michigan? Or were you "there" at HQ?
quote:In the last five years.....twi has become more covert. It's NO WONDER that, when settling out of court with Pxxl Allxn, one of the demanded requests of twi was to CLOSE DOWN WAYDALE!!
Just a note: that point is speculation. Educated, reasonable speculation, but speculation nonetheless. It's never been established that this was one of TWI's demands.
That doesn't mean I don't believe it. But there it is.
Personal stories: that's mainly what hooked me to WayDale & later Grease Spot Cafe.
I had been hearing bad stuff about TWI as far back as 1979, but never gave it much credence. It was the first-hand testimony of people who had stories and experiences very similar to mine that made the difference.
After lurking and later posting I made contact with several ex-Way folks, by phone and by email. The man behind the curtain was revealed!
An aside: when Paul & Bev M were RC's in Washington, two freinds of mine who had recently moved there from Nebraska emailed our family to tell us how great the DTA class had been, and how The Mos-----s had set the syllabus aside and just "taught from the Word!!! It wasn't too much later that Paul & Bev were out of TWI.
Apr 2000.............Allxn lawsuit against lcm/twi.
Jun/Jul 2000.........Lxchts in Michigan left twi.
Jun/Jul 2000.........Mxsquedxs exit twi and write "exit info document" for waydale.
Jun/Jul 2000.........Lxllys in Texas leave in middle of night avoiding confrontation.
Sept 2000............Martindale is ousted by twi lawyers
Sometime later.......Lawsuit is settled out of court -- some speculate on twi's demands.
Hope this helps the "rough" timeline. If it needs further changing, I'll edit it. :)-->
Now....back to the topic. Personal stories, like HCW's on the LEAD accident, can finally be voiced.....via the internet. It has answered several questions for me. Bits and pieces of what I'd heard thru the years have been fitted together. I'm thankful and intrigued by this information.
Even this thread has cleared up "scattered information" from different parts of the country. Thanks.
You make an excellent point about personal stories and the internet.
When my family and me were ousted from the cult in the mid-80's, we called just about everyone whose phone number we had, to tell them about what was really going on, as far as we could tell.
Many of our closest friends and comrades didn't believe us, and called us liars, said we were bitter, etc., etc. (Of course, some listened. :)--> but many cursed us.)
Then along comes Waydale, and all of a sudden, we post stories and experiences, and somebody else says, "yeah, I was there, too, and yeah, that's what happened."
Instant credibility. Suddenly, there are scads of witnesses, who were there too.
Tis quite powerful, the stories of many witnesses.
Yeah, personal stories are our "soapbox" and the internet is our "microphone." Finally, we get to stand up and voice our insights, our feelings, our point of view.
It's amazing to be reconnected with friends and acquaintences. After years of constant moving, and room setup, and ushering at events......we can sit and ENJOY the commaraderie and all.
Hearing others' stories is riveting. I really enjoy it. Thanks.
(This post is too damn long. Skip thru it if ur in a hurry).
As a computer hobbyist (nerd) since the early 80's, I have enjoyed watching this all develop at a snails pace and then rapidly.
I've been on the Internet since 14k? (I think it was) dial-up modems. I also remember when there was very little (and slow) Internet connectivity to certain sites and email was not used very much at all except in corporations. Even Microsoft did not pay much attention at first.
The phenomenon of The Internet began to take hold, to grow exponentially. Computers got faster and faster to the point that the weak link of the whole computer was the darn 56k modems. Dial-up still hindered the real usefulness of it somewhat. (No offense to you that still use it or are forced to.)
Along came BROADBAND!!! - though it cost $60 a month at first around here (we were one of the early test beds for Road Runner) I knew a huge breakthrough was about to happen. This thing was fast! And always on. A revolution was beginning because now it was getting practical to the level of the everyday user.
Trying to communicate the awesome usefulness of the growing phenomenon of the Internet, email connectivity, chat technology and personal websites to my TWI leaders was like talking to a brick wall.
It was worldly, who needs it? Its devilish. What happened to writing a personal letter? We're not going on the Internet. What's the profit?
Were they afraid of this growing power? Personally, I believe so. It was beyond their control, and they LOVED control. Their purposeful ignorance was a big mistake. Paul Allxn said it best. They were technophobes.
To this day, In my opinion they are still waaaay behind and in my opinion it is too late to salvage their wreckage.
Do a Google search on The Way International. That pretty much tells the whole story.
Today people all over have high speeed, instant connectivity to one another all over the world. As I have said before, it is a breeze to get kicked out or leave TWI today. No big deal. Go home and go right online and find more fellowship here that we had in TWI. And many "offshoots" and awesome church groups to choose from if that is what you need and want. The choices are fantastic. TWI is fading in the brilliant light of other great christian organizations that are simply better in every way. In my opinion it is time for them to quit. It is the end of an era. They will NOT recover in their current format, as I see it.
The Internet is still changing and revolutionizing the entire world, yet only a fraction of the world's population has this luxury at the moment. As it gets into the hands of the common man in some of these third world countries, they, too will be able to freely and anonynmously expose hidden evils and quietly bring about change for the better.
I tell you, a whole world unfolded before my eyes and I was free. When I started to read the forums...man, I was hooked. FINALLY I HAD PROOF of what I had felt for all those years I spent in that TWIsted outfit.
And I had been outta TWI for nearly 9 years when I found this place.
And how fast did Paul get Waydale running after they left HQ's? A month? Two?
Basically TWI couldn't have realized the power of the internet or they would have put a site up to nullify Waydale immediately!
Technophobia is still rampant in TWI. I spoke to someone who left recently who told me they snuck onto the internet a couple of years ago to check this and other ex-Way sites out. They didn't say this, but I believe these sites planted the seeds to enable them to leave without devastating them too much.
Now, TWI has always printed personal stories of deliverance and victory in the "letters" section of the Way Rag. But how many of you honestly believe these letters weren't fabricated - or at least altered to make them more in line with TWI's doctrine? Heck, they didn't even put the writer's NAMES on the letters - only initials. That made them even less believable, IMO. (You guys who worked for the Way Rag - please let me know if my suspicions are correct or not).
Even if they weren't fabricated, they were written in WaySpeak - especially in the 90's. Heck - we had to write "thank you" notes to LCM for the WAP class. Every word was checked to make sure it was in line with the "present truth". I'm disgusted just thinking about it...
So yes - personal stories ON the internet helped bring TWI to it's knees. Gotta give them some credit for making it so easy to do.
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lindyhopper
My time line may be a little off, but I am pretty sure those folks left after the Allxn lawsuit? I guess I thought that WayDale was up before the lawsuits came out.
Yes No?
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lindyhopper
BTW,
Allxn Lxcht and wife (Dxbby?) were two great individuals. Allxn was one of my favorite leaders around, down to earth and very funny. They had their times of LCMishness, but who at that level didn't and weren't pressured to be so.
sorry to derail a bit
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skyrider
lindy....good question. Here's what I remember....
Feb 1999..............Allxns fired from hq staff.
Mar/Apr 1999..........Waydale up and running
Jun/Jul 1999..........Lxchts in Florida left twi.
Jun/Jul 1999..........Moxquexas in Colorado left.
Jun/Jul 2000..........Laxlys in Texas left.
Sep 2000..............Martindale was ousted by lawyers.
Feb/Mar 2001..........Lawsuit settled out of court.
Others might know more specifics.....but nonetheless, its intriguing!!
:)-->
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lindyhopper
Your probably right, Sky.
My timeline is from my restricted innie perspective. I remember hearing about the Lxchts right after I heard about the lawsuit. It's not like they would have told us pions that leaders split without a good reason for leaving. The lawsuit became (I'm sure it was part of it) the reason.
But good point about online stories. It can only help. I wonder whe it was that a they started really harping on us to not veiw these cop-out's websites. I must have been after these computer savvy leaders left. Actually I am pretty sure it was.
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skyrider
lindy......as best I recall, the "public release version" of lcm's "one-time affair" was in April 1999. Knowing that Pxxl Allxn's waydale was up and cranking out information......twi told their followers that going online to anti-way websites could get them possessed.
In the last five years.....twi has gone underground. Twi's written communication has greatly diminished. Lists of yearly leadership assignments is no longer sent out. Announcements, assignments and numbers involved hardly get a mention on a SNS tape.
In the last five years.....twi has become more covert. It's NO WONDER that, when settling out of court with Pxxl Allxn, one of the demanded requests of twi was to CLOSE DOWN WAYDALE!!
Long live Greasespot Cafe.....and keep telling those first-hand experiences.
Thanks Paw.
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A la prochaine
Sky,
Did not L*rry & C*nnie P*narello pretty much leave in the night from TWI?
I think it was the year 2000.
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skyrider
A la,
No, Pxnarxllos left in Sep/Oct of 2002.....I'm fairly certain.
You might be thinking of the Lxllys.....they asked to be Branch Coordinators in Austin, rather than keep doing the Region. From what I heard, the night before believers were coming over to help them move into another apartment/townhouse.....the Lxllys drove away in the middle of the night with their stuff.
In this way, the Lxllys avoided the face-melting confrontation from the new Region guy!
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A la prochaine
Sky,
Wow! They sure were running scared!
Thanks for straightening the dates out for me about the P*narello's. But I thought they too sorta' took off in the night?
Maybe I'm confusing them with the rest of the chicken ....s who couldn't take the heat! Ya they sure were good at dishing it out but they certainly couldn't take it!
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outandabout
I find that quite ironic. They specialized in melting faces.
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Hope R.
Sky -
Paul & Bev M**qu*da didn't skulk out of town. Not at all. They left shortly after he taught the live DTA class on Memorial Day weekend in 2000. Oh, and they were in the Pacific NW - Washington, I believe.
There's a document on the GS main site called "How to Extracate Yourself: A Guide to Liberty" (click here)
John and I had only met Paul once each at the Advanced Classes in RC sometime in the mid 90's. When he saw John's "Letters to Rosalie" on Waydale - he called us to make sure we were okay. I think he spent 2 hours on the phone with John assuring him he'd made the right decision about writing those letters and leaving TWI for good.
I'm sure you could reach him without looking too far. He might even be lurking here.
Like I said, I never had too many encounters with him before the "new" AC - and I'm sure there are people out there who may not like him (he was the Family Corps Coor.), but I don't believe he's hiding from anyone - he's probably just busy getting on with his life.
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Belle
Hope, unless I mis-read it, I don't think Sky was saying they skulked out. He was just giving the chronology of who left when and how it corresponds to the lawsuits and WayDale.
The Lall*s were the only ones to really leave under cover of night, weren't they?
I thought I heard the P*narellos were trying to start their own cult using what they learned in TWI.
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Nottawayfer
I remember the All*n lawsuit coming up in April 2000. It was a year after they were booted off staff.
The L*chts were in Michigan, and they definitely left after hearing about lcm's crap. I think it started in April 2000. They left, and there was quite an uproar. They were required to apologize to lcm. They came back shortly, and then they left again.
At least that's what I remember when I was there.
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learning
Didn't the P*narellos go to CES?
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Radar OReilly
Sky,
The Lichts had been the region coordinators in MICHIGAN from 1993 thru their leaving twi. They left from MI.
John and Mary Lou Shroyer had been in Florida and had been unceremoniously *dumped* by lcm in 1995, replaced by The Moneyhands who are still there.
Waydale was indeed up running around 11 months prior to their filing their lawsuit.
The CLAPPS and the Mosq**das left over the BENNETT lawsuit.
Just for the RECORD....the Allens were NOT FIRED from twi staff. Paul Allen confronted LCM and the trustees, including John Reynolds in an OSC conference room. He offered them and ultimatum, they declined, he went back to his unit, packed up his wife, and belongings and left. THEY NEVER LOOKED BACK.
ror
Sky....private topic please
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Abigail
Lindy, I knew the Lichts here in Michigan and adored them, they were very good to me both in and on my way out of TWI.
"The L*chts were in Michigan, and they definitely left after hearing about lcm's crap. I think it started in April 2000. They left, and there was quite an uproar. They were required to apologize to lcm. They came back shortly, and then they left again."
Wayfer, the Lichts were definitely still here in Michigan in 2000. They left after the announcement about LCM. But I never knew they left, came back, and left again.
"t least that's what I remember when I was there. "
Wayfer, were you here in Michigan? Or were you "there" at HQ?
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Raf
Just a note: that point is speculation. Educated, reasonable speculation, but speculation nonetheless. It's never been established that this was one of TWI's demands.
That doesn't mean I don't believe it. But there it is.
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Oakspear
Personal stories: that's mainly what hooked me to WayDale & later Grease Spot Cafe.
I had been hearing bad stuff about TWI as far back as 1979, but never gave it much credence. It was the first-hand testimony of people who had stories and experiences very similar to mine that made the difference.
After lurking and later posting I made contact with several ex-Way folks, by phone and by email. The man behind the curtain was revealed!
An aside: when Paul & Bev M were RC's in Washington, two freinds of mine who had recently moved there from Nebraska emailed our family to tell us how great the DTA class had been, and how The Mos-----s had set the syllabus aside and just "taught from the Word!!!
It wasn't too much later that Paul & Bev were out of TWI.
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skyrider
Others DO know more specifics......so here's an updated timeline. Thanks.
Feb 1999.............P. Allxn confronts lcm and the Allxns leave hq staff.
Mar/Apr 1999.........P. Allxn gets waydale up and running.
Apr 2000.............Announcement/public statement regarding lcm & "one-time affair."
Apr 2000.............Allxn lawsuit against lcm/twi.
Jun/Jul 2000.........Lxchts in Michigan left twi.
Jun/Jul 2000.........Mxsquedxs exit twi and write "exit info document" for waydale.
Jun/Jul 2000.........Lxllys in Texas leave in middle of night avoiding confrontation.
Sept 2000............Martindale is ousted by twi lawyers
Sometime later.......Lawsuit is settled out of court -- some speculate on twi's demands.
Hope this helps the "rough" timeline. If it needs further changing, I'll edit it.
:)-->
Now....back to the topic. Personal stories, like HCW's on the LEAD accident, can finally be voiced.....via the internet. It has answered several questions for me. Bits and pieces of what I'd heard thru the years have been fitted together. I'm thankful and intrigued by this information.
Even this thread has cleared up "scattered information" from different parts of the country. Thanks.
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skyrider
Me too, Oakspear........me too!
:)-->
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ex10
Sky,
You make an excellent point about personal stories and the internet.
When my family and me were ousted from the cult in the mid-80's, we called just about everyone whose phone number we had, to tell them about what was really going on, as far as we could tell.
Many of our closest friends and comrades didn't believe us, and called us liars, said we were bitter, etc., etc. (Of course, some listened.
:)--> but many cursed us.)
Then along comes Waydale, and all of a sudden, we post stories and experiences, and somebody else says, "yeah, I was there, too, and yeah, that's what happened."
Instant credibility. Suddenly, there are scads of witnesses, who were there too.
Tis quite powerful, the stories of many witnesses.
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skyrider
ex10,
Yeah, personal stories are our "soapbox" and the internet is our "microphone." Finally, we get to stand up and voice our insights, our feelings, our point of view.
It's amazing to be reconnected with friends and acquaintences. After years of constant moving, and room setup, and ushering at events......we can sit and ENJOY the commaraderie and all.
Hearing others' stories is riveting. I really enjoy it. Thanks.
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igotout
Skyrider I agree!
(This post is too damn long. Skip thru it if ur in a hurry).
As a computer hobbyist (nerd) since the early 80's, I have enjoyed watching this all develop at a snails pace and then rapidly.
I've been on the Internet since 14k? (I think it was) dial-up modems. I also remember when there was very little (and slow) Internet connectivity to certain sites and email was not used very much at all except in corporations. Even Microsoft did not pay much attention at first.
The phenomenon of The Internet began to take hold, to grow exponentially. Computers got faster and faster to the point that the weak link of the whole computer was the darn 56k modems. Dial-up still hindered the real usefulness of it somewhat. (No offense to you that still use it or are forced to.)
Along came BROADBAND!!! - though it cost $60 a month at first around here (we were one of the early test beds for Road Runner) I knew a huge breakthrough was about to happen. This thing was fast! And always on. A revolution was beginning because now it was getting practical to the level of the everyday user.
Trying to communicate the awesome usefulness of the growing phenomenon of the Internet, email connectivity, chat technology and personal websites to my TWI leaders was like talking to a brick wall.
It was worldly, who needs it? Its devilish. What happened to writing a personal letter? We're not going on the Internet. What's the profit?
Were they afraid of this growing power? Personally, I believe so. It was beyond their control, and they LOVED control. Their purposeful ignorance was a big mistake. Paul Allxn said it best. They were technophobes.
To this day, In my opinion they are still waaaay behind and in my opinion it is too late to salvage their wreckage.
Do a Google search on The Way International. That pretty much tells the whole story.
Today people all over have high speeed, instant connectivity to one another all over the world. As I have said before, it is a breeze to get kicked out or leave TWI today. No big deal. Go home and go right online and find more fellowship here that we had in TWI. And many "offshoots" and awesome church groups to choose from if that is what you need and want. The choices are fantastic. TWI is fading in the brilliant light of other great christian organizations that are simply better in every way. In my opinion it is time for them to quit. It is the end of an era. They will NOT recover in their current format, as I see it.
The Internet is still changing and revolutionizing the entire world, yet only a fraction of the world's population has this luxury at the moment. As it gets into the hands of the common man in some of these third world countries, they, too will be able to freely and anonynmously expose hidden evils and quietly bring about change for the better.
Sound familiar?
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A la prochaine
Nice synopsis John!
BRAVO MON AMI!!
'Til I found GS I was in the proverbial dark!
I tell you, a whole world unfolded before my eyes and I was free. When I started to read the forums...man, I was hooked. FINALLY I HAD PROOF of what I had felt for all those years I spent in that TWIsted outfit.
And I had been outta TWI for nearly 9 years when I found this place.
How pathetic is that!
-->
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Hope R.
And how fast did Paul get Waydale running after they left HQ's? A month? Two?
Basically TWI couldn't have realized the power of the internet or they would have put a site up to nullify Waydale immediately!
Technophobia is still rampant in TWI. I spoke to someone who left recently who told me they snuck onto the internet a couple of years ago to check this and other ex-Way sites out. They didn't say this, but I believe these sites planted the seeds to enable them to leave without devastating them too much.
Now, TWI has always printed personal stories of deliverance and victory in the "letters" section of the Way Rag. But how many of you honestly believe these letters weren't fabricated - or at least altered to make them more in line with TWI's doctrine? Heck, they didn't even put the writer's NAMES on the letters - only initials. That made them even less believable, IMO. (You guys who worked for the Way Rag - please let me know if my suspicions are correct or not).
Even if they weren't fabricated, they were written in WaySpeak - especially in the 90's. Heck - we had to write "thank you" notes to LCM for the WAP class. Every word was checked to make sure it was in line with the "present truth". I'm disgusted just thinking about it...
So yes - personal stories ON the internet helped bring TWI to it's knees. Gotta give them some credit for making it so easy to do.
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