Sky, Not only did the leadership not help them....I talked to a girl who had been immediatly dismissed from the corpes and escorted off grounds when she refued a threesom w/ the mog.
She told me that before she made it back to her home state, hq had called and had the whole body of believers, warned not to talk to her because she was posessed.
She lost EVERYTHING!
She had forsaken everything in her earnestness to be that doulos for God....
By the time twi was done, she had no friends, no body of believers to fellowship with, no money...everything had been stripped away, in their vindictivness and need to cover their @sses.
And why should they be allowed to talk to anyone? They were the ones who broke their comittment to God, Dr. Wierwille, and The Way Corps! When they broke their comittments, they weren't worth the powder and lead to blow themselves up with! They no longer had a head! Their neck was just blowing bubbles by that time! Comittment was supposed to be our middle name! We sre supposed to be leading the "Magnum Life!" (Del Duncan). Those who walked away from the Corps had no back bone! Be careful! Don't step in so and so, he's just a pile of goo now that he's lost his backbone! Why should God ever even spit in their direction again! Greasespots all!! Agghh! Agghh!!!
Oh wait, did I just say that? Oh sorry, I'm not Craig, really....I just got carried away...
Wow, that kind adang is so heavy. I think Igotout put it very succinctly...
quote:And why should they be allowed to talk to anyone? They were the ones who broke their comittment to God Dr. Wierwille, and The Way Corps? When they broke their comittments, they weren't worth the powder and lead to blow themselves up with! They no longer had a head! Their neck was just blowing bubbles by that time! Why should God ever even spit in their direction again! Greasespots all!! Agghh! Agghh!!!
Oh wait, did I just say that? Oh sorry, I'm not Craig, really....I just got carried away...
Jonny......for a second there, I could actually hear craig's voice.
At the very least, there should have been a "review committee" of two or three individuals who would panel to hear BOTH sides. Grievances of the program or leaders' attitudes or whatever SHOULD have had a hearing. Not a yes-men, voice-over, shout-n-out confrontation......BUT a fair hearing.
Fair is fair.....and iff the corps person proved to be beligerent and a scorner.....then it would expose that too.
By the early 80s......the term cop out had gained legs.....and had evolved to mean....any corps person or corps grad who quit taking assignments was a cop out.
Twi changed the parameters.
Now, it was a LIFETIME COMMITMENT to stand with twi.
And, that labeling is still in effect to this day. :D-->
My situation was weirder. My husband and I went into the Corps to be Recognized Corps only. No lifetime commitment, onlt one year in res, no Corps assignments after graduation. We were accepted on that basis. I have a diploma to prove it.
I was called in by a LC for a Corps evaluation. I went, to tell him I did not need one, I was Recognized. He said, "Oh, 'Doctor' didn't want there to be a Recognized program."
Well, tough on "Doctor," there was one! I refused to fill out a "Redeem the Time" sheet, or be evaluated by someone who didn't even know me. Dunno what he ever said to his superiors about that. Didn't care. I was still operating like a TWI-I believer who could choose what to do.
Shaz......yeah, I was jesting a bit. After all these years, it is amazing to step back and see how twi's standards were not subject to accountability.
Aww yes....the recognized corps. Another sneaky way of phrasing the program. :D-->
But really, just thinking out loud here.......why did the corps program have a "special human race" ideology? When I signed on the line.....there was not one hint of that in the promotional brochure.
Thanks Hope....for that waydale info. And.....I thought twi specifically declared that they DID NOT mark and avoid people???
When some of us signed up for it long ago there was no one that said this is a "lifetime of christian service" and that you would always be subject to go where TWI desired to send you and in whatever capacity. It was as absurd to think that as it would have been for you to think that once you graduated WOW you would forever be a "WOW-Vet" and with that comes a lifetime of WOW-Vetting as directed by TWI.
As you pointed out, Skyrider, this evolved. Many of us thought you do your three year (not four year)program, and then you graduate, at which point your are qualified to be a twig or branch leader, going where YOU felt there was a concern, interest or need. It was a big world and the Word was far from being "over" it.
Quote from LCM when we were in res: "Not all of you can be branch leaders or Limb leaders. Some of you ought to go out there and start businesses or go to college!!" Some of us did, thank you very much.
But it evolved from that into.....go full time and give your life to The Way Corps!... and be under our direction day and night. And if you don't then you are not Corps. You are drop kicked out with no reasonable explanation or comfort or reassurance. Most of the time with not even a thank you. Notwithstanding the full-time Corps fiasco failed miserably as was discussed on another thread.
Yes, a fine example of the slow process of LEGALISM forming at a snails pace year after year, right before our blinded eyes. And we all silently wondered why we were not truly happy with our lives.
quote:As you pointed out, Skyrider, this evolved. Many of us thought you do your three year (not four year)program, and then you graduate, at which point your are qualified to be a twig or branch leader, going where your wanted to.
THAT was it! Get the "training".....and then, get outta there!
He11....I figured if Balaam could learn a few things from his foot, then surely I could stick it out and learn a few things from a few blowhards!!!
quote:Yes, a fine example of the slow process of LEGALISM forming at a snails pace year after year, right before our blinded eyes. And we all silently wondered why we were not truly happy with our lives.
Good point, igotout.
Yeah.....LEGALISM has a way of wrapping itself around your head and suffocating you to death. No wonder it's one of the main topics in Galatians.
quote: At the very least, there should have been a "review committee" of two or three individuals who would panel to hear BOTH sides. Grievances of the program or leaders' attitudes or whatever SHOULD have had a hearing. Not a yes-men, voice-over, shout-n-out confrontation......BUT a fair hearing.
Fair is fair.....and iff the corps person proved to be beligerent and a scorner.....then it would expose that too.
That sounds nice Sky, but the decision that was made was a spiritual decision, that's why there was no need for a "fair" discussion concerning one's fate. Basicly, it was; "mene mene tekel upharsin-thou art weighed in the balances and found wanting" . The problem is, God wasn't in the decisions.
This was another reason it was so devastating to a person who got the the boot. When we went into the Corps, we thought God was the "real director" in a sense, and so, when one was "found wanting", it was as if God rejected that person as a below par believer". I was never kicked out, nor threatened to be. But I remember alot of screwed up emotions and thinking towards those that did. If I knew the person, and liked them, then I was confused. If I didn't know them, then, I'd get caught up in the judgement thing also, for which I ask God for forgiveness.
Now, there was one guy who was always sneaking off and tearing up the town and getting drunk as a skunk and just plain raising hell all of the time, and I do not know how he managed to graduate. One night he ended up drunk in Kansas City at some bar where the music never ceased! But he was a real slick salesman kind of a guy, so, he must have put the hard sell on JAL, and come out smelling like a rose anyway!! That guy was too funny! And the year we graduated, he shows up at Corps Week with a really expensive motor home, a large cooler full of beer, and he grilled steaks all of the time and never got caught with all of his beer! What a guy, old BH...
quote:This was another reason it was so devastating to a person who got the the boot. When we went into the Corps, we thought God was the "real director" in a sense, and so, when one was "found wanting", it was as if God rejected that person as a below par believer".
Okay.....call me naive or whatever, but I firmly believed that when I was accepted into the corps program that it was two years of training/learning with an interim year inbetween. The interim year would help expose those areas of weakness and all. I honestly thought that as long as one was putting forth a concerted effort to learn and grow, to receive and practice......THAT was the commitment. Much like going to college classes, I guess.
Here's a chuckle for you.....our first corps night, on Wednesday, was held in Emporia's chapel. One of my good buddies was traveling thru and heading west. He stopped into visit me about 20 minutes before the corps meeting. He found my dorm room and, together we walked over to the chapel. I invited him. :D-->
He wasn't corps! He wasn't even an advanced class grad! About 10 minutes into the meeting and some corps guy sorta noticed that my friend looked outta place and said, "Is he corps?" I said, "No" (not really thinking much about it). Then, this corps guy says....."He can't be in here" and I said, "Oh." My friend quietly exited out the west entrance.
My, oh my........LEGALISM has grown lots of hair since then. :D--> :D--> :D-->
I got the boot...but it was an agreed upon dismissal.
I fought with the leaders that BE to try and prove my FIREBALLSNESS (see LEAD thread for more details p. 16) but to no avail. There was nothing I could do right. I was always being called on the carpet for one thing or another.
Of course in hindsight, I see that they were probably keeping me under close watchful eye and I'm sure they had certain people reporting back to the leaders on the progress of certain misfits or weaklinks of which I'm sure I was one.
That to me would explain your post JONNY about the guy who had the RV/beer/steaks at graduation. He was never on their hit list. Probably had some goods on certain leaders and they knew he was a loose cannon and would spill the beans. (just my POV) :P-->
Anyhow, what I was saying, I had spent my whole time it seemed fighting and being beaten up. So, by the time it was suggested I leave...I was relieved. I had nothing left in me. NOTHING.
NOT A DROP OF ESTEEM, SELF-WORTH OR JOY DE VIVRE LEFT. IT WAS SUCKED OUT ME DRY.
Though, I was so relieved that even the girl driving me to the airport said to me, "Gee, I haven't seen you this happy in months. You seem almost happy to leave."
Deep down inside I was, yet I thought that was wrong too.
-->
I was a mess for a long time...trying to sort all this out.
Yes and I can tell you that many Corps snubbed me. That hurt me.
I want to add that I was not suicidal though when I left.
And I believe that the only reason I wasn't is because I had seen first hand the cruelty of those leaders. I knew in the bottom of my heart that THAT had nothing to do with God...I didn't care what they promoted that program as. Their actions spoke much louder to me than their words.
And, as far as I was concerned, if that's what I had to do to become a leader, NO THANK YOU!! I didn't have in me to be that cruel. I just couldn't see God saying, 'YES, this is what a servant of God is supposed to do to his people, pummel the dang outta' them!'
((((ala)))) I am so glad that you were smart enough to know that it wasn`t God that was behind the cruelty.
I wasn`t, I thought that if the leader said that I was posessed....it made it so....and that because the leader found me repulsive, so did God....I couldn`t look or speak to him for a long time.....I was so ashamed.
That shouldn`t have happened to anybody, much less folks who simply wanted top be pleasing to God.
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skyrider
One other point....
Some of the older corps....who had careers or money or family to fall back on did NOT have the same challenges as the young corps.
I know several went back to their careers and didn't miss a beat.
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rascal
Sky, Not only did the leadership not help them....I talked to a girl who had been immediatly dismissed from the corpes and escorted off grounds when she refued a threesom w/ the mog.
She told me that before she made it back to her home state, hq had called and had the whole body of believers, warned not to talk to her because she was posessed.
She lost EVERYTHING!
She had forsaken everything in her earnestness to be that doulos for God....
By the time twi was done, she had no friends, no body of believers to fellowship with, no money...everything had been stripped away, in their vindictivness and need to cover their @sses.
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oldiesman
It was a traumatic experience, no question.
Didn't have the ambition to get back in there. Almost, but no dice.
I tip my hat to those who couldn't finish one year, but then finished later.
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skyrider
rascal.......unbelievable!!!
Of course, when a corps person was dismissed and could NOT TALK TO ANYONE.....the separation was immediate.
No personal exchange of information from friends.
No personal comfort.........with embracing hugs.
No personal exhortation.....with write soon, "I will miss you."
Cold and calloused and calculating.....twi leadership got in the last damaging word!
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J0nny Ling0
And why should they be allowed to talk to anyone? They were the ones who broke their comittment to God, Dr. Wierwille, and The Way Corps! When they broke their comittments, they weren't worth the powder and lead to blow themselves up with! They no longer had a head! Their neck was just blowing bubbles by that time! Comittment was supposed to be our middle name! We sre supposed to be leading the "Magnum Life!" (Del Duncan). Those who walked away from the Corps had no back bone! Be careful! Don't step in so and so, he's just a pile of goo now that he's lost his backbone! Why should God ever even spit in their direction again! Greasespots all!! Agghh! Agghh!!!
Oh wait, did I just say that? Oh sorry, I'm not Craig, really....I just got carried away...
Wow, that kind adang is so heavy. I think Igotout put it very succinctly...
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oldiesman
Craig actually wrote me a letter a couple of months later, asking me if I had reapplied...
Wasn't in the same mindset though. Oh well...
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skyrider
Jonny......for a second there, I could actually hear craig's voice.
At the very least, there should have been a "review committee" of two or three individuals who would panel to hear BOTH sides. Grievances of the program or leaders' attitudes or whatever SHOULD have had a hearing. Not a yes-men, voice-over, shout-n-out confrontation......BUT a fair hearing.
Fair is fair.....and iff the corps person proved to be beligerent and a scorner.....then it would expose that too.
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skyrider
By the early 80s......the term cop out had gained legs.....and had evolved to mean....any corps person or corps grad who quit taking assignments was a cop out.
Twi changed the parameters.
Now, it was a LIFETIME COMMITMENT to stand with twi.
And, that labeling is still in effect to this day.
:D-->
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satori001
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waterbuffalo
ROFLMAO, Santori
:D-->
(Sorry, OM, nothing personal)
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shazdancer
Play fair, sky? Shirley, you jest!
My situation was weirder. My husband and I went into the Corps to be Recognized Corps only. No lifetime commitment, onlt one year in res, no Corps assignments after graduation. We were accepted on that basis. I have a diploma to prove it.
I was called in by a LC for a Corps evaluation. I went, to tell him I did not need one, I was Recognized. He said, "Oh, 'Doctor' didn't want there to be a Recognized program."
Well, tough on "Doctor," there was one! I refused to fill out a "Redeem the Time" sheet, or be evaluated by someone who didn't even know me. Dunno what he ever said to his superiors about that. Didn't care. I was still operating like a TWI-I believer who could choose what to do.
Regards,
Shaz
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Hope R.
"Classification and Status Designations" dated 2/12/98 - from the Waydale Documents section of Grease Spot. It's a PDF file.
Wonder what LCM's status designation is today?
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skyrider
Shaz......yeah, I was jesting a bit. After all these years, it is amazing to step back and see how twi's standards were not subject to accountability.
Aww yes....the recognized corps. Another sneaky way of phrasing the program.
:D-->
But really, just thinking out loud here.......why did the corps program have a "special human race" ideology? When I signed on the line.....there was not one hint of that in the promotional brochure.
Thanks Hope....for that waydale info. And.....I thought twi specifically declared that they DID NOT mark and avoid people???
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excathedra
but i wouldn't have thought so at the time
just the thought of it was so very devastating, horrible, like losing your SELF
i'm sorry for what you went through
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igotout
When some of us signed up for it long ago there was no one that said this is a "lifetime of christian service" and that you would always be subject to go where TWI desired to send you and in whatever capacity. It was as absurd to think that as it would have been for you to think that once you graduated WOW you would forever be a "WOW-Vet" and with that comes a lifetime of WOW-Vetting as directed by TWI.
As you pointed out, Skyrider, this evolved. Many of us thought you do your three year (not four year)program, and then you graduate, at which point your are qualified to be a twig or branch leader, going where YOU felt there was a concern, interest or need. It was a big world and the Word was far from being "over" it.
Quote from LCM when we were in res: "Not all of you can be branch leaders or Limb leaders. Some of you ought to go out there and start businesses or go to college!!" Some of us did, thank you very much.
But it evolved from that into.....go full time and give your life to The Way Corps!... and be under our direction day and night. And if you don't then you are not Corps. You are drop kicked out with no reasonable explanation or comfort or reassurance. Most of the time with not even a thank you. Notwithstanding the full-time Corps fiasco failed miserably as was discussed on another thread.
Yes, a fine example of the slow process of LEGALISM forming at a snails pace year after year, right before our blinded eyes. And we all silently wondered why we were not truly happy with our lives.
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skyrider
THAT was it! Get the "training".....and then, get outta there!
He11....I figured if Balaam could learn a few things from his foot, then surely I could stick it out and learn a few things from a few blowhards!!!
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skyrider
Good point, igotout.
Yeah.....LEGALISM has a way of wrapping itself around your head and suffocating you to death. No wonder it's one of the main topics in Galatians.
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J0nny Ling0
Skyrider said;
That sounds nice Sky, but the decision that was made was a spiritual decision, that's why there was no need for a "fair" discussion concerning one's fate. Basicly, it was; "mene mene tekel upharsin-thou art weighed in the balances and found wanting" . The problem is, God wasn't in the decisions.
This was another reason it was so devastating to a person who got the the boot. When we went into the Corps, we thought God was the "real director" in a sense, and so, when one was "found wanting", it was as if God rejected that person as a below par believer". I was never kicked out, nor threatened to be. But I remember alot of screwed up emotions and thinking towards those that did. If I knew the person, and liked them, then I was confused. If I didn't know them, then, I'd get caught up in the judgement thing also, for which I ask God for forgiveness.
Now, there was one guy who was always sneaking off and tearing up the town and getting drunk as a skunk and just plain raising hell all of the time, and I do not know how he managed to graduate. One night he ended up drunk in Kansas City at some bar where the music never ceased! But he was a real slick salesman kind of a guy, so, he must have put the hard sell on JAL, and come out smelling like a rose anyway!! That guy was too funny! And the year we graduated, he shows up at Corps Week with a really expensive motor home, a large cooler full of beer, and he grilled steaks all of the time and never got caught with all of his beer! What a guy, old BH...
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skyrider
Okay.....call me naive or whatever, but I firmly believed that when I was accepted into the corps program that it was two years of training/learning with an interim year inbetween. The interim year would help expose those areas of weakness and all. I honestly thought that as long as one was putting forth a concerted effort to learn and grow, to receive and practice......THAT was the commitment. Much like going to college classes, I guess.
Here's a chuckle for you.....our first corps night, on Wednesday, was held in Emporia's chapel. One of my good buddies was traveling thru and heading west. He stopped into visit me about 20 minutes before the corps meeting. He found my dorm room and, together we walked over to the chapel. I invited him.
:D-->
He wasn't corps! He wasn't even an advanced class grad! About 10 minutes into the meeting and some corps guy sorta noticed that my friend looked outta place and said, "Is he corps?" I said, "No" (not really thinking much about it). Then, this corps guy says....."He can't be in here" and I said, "Oh." My friend quietly exited out the west entrance.
My, oh my........LEGALISM has grown lots of hair since then.
:D--> 
:D--> 
:D-->
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A la prochaine
Cute story Sky!
:D-->
I got the boot...but it was an agreed upon dismissal.
I fought with the leaders that BE to try and prove my FIREBALLSNESS (see LEAD thread for more details p. 16) but to no avail. There was nothing I could do right. I was always being called on the carpet for one thing or another.
Of course in hindsight, I see that they were probably keeping me under close watchful eye and I'm sure they had certain people reporting back to the leaders on the progress of certain misfits or weaklinks of which I'm sure I was one.
That to me would explain your post JONNY about the guy who had the RV/beer/steaks at graduation. He was never on their hit list. Probably had some goods on certain leaders and they knew he was a loose cannon and would spill the beans. (just my POV)
:P-->
Anyhow, what I was saying, I had spent my whole time it seemed fighting and being beaten up. So, by the time it was suggested I leave...I was relieved. I had nothing left in me. NOTHING.
NOT A DROP OF ESTEEM, SELF-WORTH OR JOY DE VIVRE LEFT. IT WAS SUCKED OUT ME DRY.
Though, I was so relieved that even the girl driving me to the airport said to me, "Gee, I haven't seen you this happy in months. You seem almost happy to leave."
Deep down inside I was, yet I thought that was wrong too.
I was a mess for a long time...trying to sort all this out.
Yes and I can tell you that many Corps snubbed me. That hurt me.
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A la prochaine
I want to add that I was not suicidal though when I left.
And I believe that the only reason I wasn't is because I had seen first hand the cruelty of those leaders. I knew in the bottom of my heart that THAT had nothing to do with God...I didn't care what they promoted that program as. Their actions spoke much louder to me than their words.
And, as far as I was concerned, if that's what I had to do to become a leader, NO THANK YOU!! I didn't have in me to be that cruel. I just couldn't see God saying, 'YES, this is what a servant of God is supposed to do to his people, pummel the dang outta' them!'
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waterbuffalo
(((((ALA)))))
You were just too good for them.
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rascal
((((ala)))) I am so glad that you were smart enough to know that it wasn`t God that was behind the cruelty.
I wasn`t, I thought that if the leader said that I was posessed....it made it so....and that because the leader found me repulsive, so did God....I couldn`t look or speak to him for a long time.....I was so ashamed.
That shouldn`t have happened to anybody, much less folks who simply wanted top be pleasing to God.
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A la prochaine
Rascallion,
I knew in the bottom of my heart that that could not possibly God's will, yet I still struggled to fit in.
I had so much shame as well.
Not a nice place to live.
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