Nothing to LOSE???? Gosh thats what I thought about twi the first time I checked it out....I was mistaken, don`t think I will be lured back into the snare no matter HOW juicey the lure appears to be.
The whole context of this thread, as I see it, is twi is now kinder and gentler not as bad as in recent years, and some folks want to invite some of us back. I don't have a problem with that, so if someone invited me, I'd go and check it out. No compulsion. No anxiety. No commitment. Just relax and enjoy. What harm is that? :)-->
No-
somebody CLAIMED-off the record-
that twi is now kinder and gentler.
Not the same as someone investigating it and saying
"Behold! They are kinder and gentler!"
(Someone who would give a fair appraisal, anyway.)
If they haven't thought of it, I would suggest that they send Oldies a private topic. Or Email him. Don't even have to post an open letter or anything like that on GSCAFE.
Things better there? Come on Rosie, what's stopping you?
quote:I knew folks years ago who came and went and came and went to twig as they pleased, with no strings attached. No compulsion. Folks were freely availing themselves cause twig was so good. I personally witnessed it. My own mother went to twig for a solid year, even before taking PFAL. No pressure to take PFAL. No strings, just great fellowship and blessings at twig with likeminded folks who justed want to love God.
You were definitely in a different twi than I was, oldiesman, that's for sure. The pressure to take pfal began the second twig meeting I ever went to, I think. It wasn't pressure like "if you don't take it, you can't keep coming to twig." It was pressure like "if you want to know all about this or that, you have to take the class. We're not going to tell you all our secrets unless you pony up."
It might not have been like that everywhere, but it sure was in N.C.
In the early 1970's, things were different. Excited ever increasing crowds make for exciting times. Back in those days, you'd see a new face almost every fellowship. Didn't worry about one or two who decided not to show the next time, cause you had five new folks over there.
It becomes irksome and grevious when the same old 8-10 people come week after week, month after month, year after year. No new folks equals dead twig. Booooooooooooring.
Then the coordinator has to watch out for every leaf individually, cause that's all he has. Fear sets in. He wonders whether the twig is alive or dead. What if one or two doesn't show? Gotta put more controls on, cause gee that means they don't want to be here. They're cop outs, they need more commitment. uh oh. Is this twig dying? yes. And so you have that spiral towards defeat.
Hey, Mr. Linder, Harve, Donna? Can you arrange that invite for Oldiesman? Surely he's proven his loyalty to TWI on here.
Seriously, OM would not share a private topic invite on the public board. No one at TWI would have to admit to inviting him. He really does want to go back.
Three posts above you wrote: "You were definitely in a different twi than I was, oldiesman, that's for sure. The pressure to take pfal began the second twig meeting I ever went to, I think. It wasn't pressure like 'if you don't take it, you can't keep coming to twig.' It was pressure like 'if you want to know all about this or that, you have to take the class. We're not going to tell you all our secrets unless you pony up. __ It might not have been like that everywhere, but it sure was in N.C.'"
I don't think it was so much an "area" thing as much as it was a maturity thing.
In my area there were some twigs that pushed the film class with the secretive elitism strategy you described. When I did see this in operation, it impressed me that those twigleaders were less mature in that they were failing to operate like we twigleaders were taught by headquarters. Some of these failings were due these less mature twigleaders having not heard the training that HQ did offer. Some of these failings were due to a twigleader having received that training, but later forgot or rejected it.
In my adventures being a twigleader, twice and in two widely separated States, I see phases of my life where I fell, for a time or two, into all the categories I just described above.
Here's a gross summary of what the HQ training was:
(1.) All twigleaders were to promote the class bigtime.
(2.) Twigleaders were to teach ONLY from the collaterals. This was RE-emphasized by Nancy D on the PFAL '77 album, but it was in the training materials well before that, before 1972.
(3.) For new people twigleaders were to tell them that if they come to fellowship and don't want to take the class, THEY'D STILL HEAR THE SAME MATERIAL TAUGHT FOR FREE in fellowship meetings, but it would take about TWO AND A HALF YEARS for the all the class to material to be covered in those twig teachings. --- We were to tell the new people that they were WELCOME to take the long way for free at twig, or they could take the short way: 3 weeks in the filmed class.
How many OLGs remember that calculated figure: 2 1/2 years?
This strategy broke down because item # (2.) above was constantly violated on the field, where twigleaders would want to teach their own research material, instead of the "boring old collaterals." AGAIN, I not only report this as a common phenomenon among twigleaders, I plead guilty to it too.
The whole reason for Nancy D's piece on the PFAL '77 album was to bring us back to the early 70's approach of collateral based twigs. The breakdown of item # (2.) above was occurring well earlier than '77 to have made it to such a prominent spot on that highly distributed album. I have much other tape and magazine evidence that breakdowns like this were occurring in all leadership, including the top ones, around '74 to '75.
So, Pirate1974, when and where twigs suffered this breakdown, or where the twigleaders had not even had the training, the secretive elitism strategy was frequently latched upon by the twigleader. It wasn't as much an area thing as it was an individual twigleader thing. Later on it could have been more an area thing, as the lcm style took over area by area.
Later on, in the post 1982 years, the secretive elitism strategy took greater root. As you put it: "We're not going to tell you all our secrets unless you pony up" became the norm, but that was much later.
The proper way WAS done in some twigs where the two learning tracks, fast and slow, were offered to new people. Fast track was 3 weeks in Dr's required donation class. Slow track was 2 and a half years for free in the twigleader's home teaching of the collaterals.
***
I distinctly remember being taught these things in twigleader training in both NY and CA, and I also remember the winds of doctrine and character immaturity that blew me off them at times.
Mike, I thought the greatest way to take PFAL was a one week vacation, at a PFAL camp. :)-->
Why do 3 weeks when you can do the whole job in one? No distractions, no traffic, no worry about getting to work in the morning. Devotion with motion. Expressive arts. Country bliss.
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washingtonweather
a. to say -- "its not that bad" implies awareness that it was.
a1. if they knew it was bad..why did all the "they" agree with it?
a2. if they knew it was bad, and now isnt so bad, why dont they help promote apologizing to all the casualties of the "bad" that they admit too?
a3. if they are the same people running it when it was "bad" - (innie admitted) - who in their right mind could really trust them now?
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rascal
Nothing to LOSE???? Gosh thats what I thought about twi the first time I checked it out....I was mistaken, don`t think I will be lured back into the snare no matter HOW juicey the lure appears to be.
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excathedra
do you say a lot of this stuff for fun ?
**
came back to edit, you know what, i'm wrong
i hung out with some of the nicest people i've ever met in fellowship (and we were peaceful and unified) i miss them very very much
sorry
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Oakspear
Oldies:
They still really, really, really want you to "abundantly share" and still use CSBP. Wasn't that one of your main doctrinal beefs?
Maybe try going over to "Family Tables" and start a discussion about it.
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WordWolf
No-
somebody CLAIMED-off the record-
that twi is now kinder and gentler.
Not the same as someone investigating it and saying
"Behold! They are kinder and gentler!"
(Someone who would give a fair appraisal, anyway.)
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Belle
So, when are you going to fellowship, OM?
;)-->
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oldiesman
When I am invited Belle.
:)-->
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vickles
Oldies, you have been invited by a couple of people here...make that three...you are invited to go to a twi twig...there is that official?....
:P-->
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vickles
gawd, please, someone from twi would you please invite oldies???? Please, pretty please with sugar on top?.....
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oldiesman
Give'em time Vickles.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
:)-->
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Ham
If they haven't thought of it, I would suggest that they send Oldies a private topic. Or Email him. Don't even have to post an open letter or anything like that on GSCAFE.
Things better there? Come on Rosie, what's stopping you?
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Ham
Harve? Jean? Anybody? Oldies has even promised to "behave".
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Pirate1974
You were definitely in a different twi than I was, oldiesman, that's for sure. The pressure to take pfal began the second twig meeting I ever went to, I think. It wasn't pressure like "if you don't take it, you can't keep coming to twig." It was pressure like "if you want to know all about this or that, you have to take the class. We're not going to tell you all our secrets unless you pony up."
It might not have been like that everywhere, but it sure was in N.C.
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oldiesman
In the early 1970's, things were different. Excited ever increasing crowds make for exciting times. Back in those days, you'd see a new face almost every fellowship. Didn't worry about one or two who decided not to show the next time, cause you had five new folks over there.
It becomes irksome and grevious when the same old 8-10 people come week after week, month after month, year after year. No new folks equals dead twig. Booooooooooooring.
Then the coordinator has to watch out for every leaf individually, cause that's all he has. Fear sets in. He wonders whether the twig is alive or dead. What if one or two doesn't show? Gotta put more controls on, cause gee that means they don't want to be here. They're cop outs, they need more commitment. uh oh. Is this twig dying? yes. And so you have that spiral towards defeat.
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Belle
Hey, Mr. Linder, Harve, Donna? Can you arrange that invite for Oldiesman? Surely he's proven his loyalty to TWI on here.
Seriously, OM would not share a private topic invite on the public board. No one at TWI would have to admit to inviting him. He really does want to go back.
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Ham
Oh well, I guess they don't want their puters to get possessed.
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Mike
Pirate1974,
Three posts above you wrote: "You were definitely in a different twi than I was, oldiesman, that's for sure. The pressure to take pfal began the second twig meeting I ever went to, I think. It wasn't pressure like 'if you don't take it, you can't keep coming to twig.' It was pressure like 'if you want to know all about this or that, you have to take the class. We're not going to tell you all our secrets unless you pony up. __ It might not have been like that everywhere, but it sure was in N.C.'"
I don't think it was so much an "area" thing as much as it was a maturity thing.
In my area there were some twigs that pushed the film class with the secretive elitism strategy you described. When I did see this in operation, it impressed me that those twigleaders were less mature in that they were failing to operate like we twigleaders were taught by headquarters. Some of these failings were due these less mature twigleaders having not heard the training that HQ did offer. Some of these failings were due to a twigleader having received that training, but later forgot or rejected it.
In my adventures being a twigleader, twice and in two widely separated States, I see phases of my life where I fell, for a time or two, into all the categories I just described above.
Here's a gross summary of what the HQ training was:
(1.) All twigleaders were to promote the class bigtime.
(2.) Twigleaders were to teach ONLY from the collaterals. This was RE-emphasized by Nancy D on the PFAL '77 album, but it was in the training materials well before that, before 1972.
(3.) For new people twigleaders were to tell them that if they come to fellowship and don't want to take the class, THEY'D STILL HEAR THE SAME MATERIAL TAUGHT FOR FREE in fellowship meetings, but it would take about TWO AND A HALF YEARS for the all the class to material to be covered in those twig teachings. --- We were to tell the new people that they were WELCOME to take the long way for free at twig, or they could take the short way: 3 weeks in the filmed class.
How many OLGs remember that calculated figure: 2 1/2 years?
This strategy broke down because item # (2.) above was constantly violated on the field, where twigleaders would want to teach their own research material, instead of the "boring old collaterals." AGAIN, I not only report this as a common phenomenon among twigleaders, I plead guilty to it too.
The whole reason for Nancy D's piece on the PFAL '77 album was to bring us back to the early 70's approach of collateral based twigs. The breakdown of item # (2.) above was occurring well earlier than '77 to have made it to such a prominent spot on that highly distributed album. I have much other tape and magazine evidence that breakdowns like this were occurring in all leadership, including the top ones, around '74 to '75.
So, Pirate1974, when and where twigs suffered this breakdown, or where the twigleaders had not even had the training, the secretive elitism strategy was frequently latched upon by the twigleader. It wasn't as much an area thing as it was an individual twigleader thing. Later on it could have been more an area thing, as the lcm style took over area by area.
Later on, in the post 1982 years, the secretive elitism strategy took greater root. As you put it: "We're not going to tell you all our secrets unless you pony up" became the norm, but that was much later.
The proper way WAS done in some twigs where the two learning tracks, fast and slow, were offered to new people. Fast track was 3 weeks in Dr's required donation class. Slow track was 2 and a half years for free in the twigleader's home teaching of the collaterals.
***
I distinctly remember being taught these things in twigleader training in both NY and CA, and I also remember the winds of doctrine and character immaturity that blew me off them at times.
.
.
.
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oldiesman
Mike, I thought the greatest way to take PFAL was a one week vacation, at a PFAL camp.
:)-->
Why do 3 weeks when you can do the whole job in one? No distractions, no traffic, no worry about getting to work in the morning. Devotion with motion. Expressive arts. Country bliss.
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Mike
I actually CAN remember that too being bandied about at twig announcment/promotion times!
However, it was only once a year or so, usually summer camp time.
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