"One of my elder corps kept on asking me questions about where I got the money and where did I work. Finally I told her. She reported me and that night I was called before the whole 9th and 11th corps. (Remember I was still tramautized) I had to stand there while everyone else was sitting and be screamed at and belittled for what felt like hours. I felt like nothing. I balled for the rest of the night. I had no strength left."
Vickles I remember youi being singled out and reproved for that BLEAD incident. You might have been belittled but That evening you were one of my heros for being able to stand there in the face of that humiliation. I looked up to you afterwards for that.
I don't have any personal horror stories about L.E.A.D. My dad loved to camp and we went out nearly every summer. When I was in the Navy, I had backpacking gear, and I'd go out sometimes when we had a long weekend. I backpacked by myself up in the Adironacks and on the island of Maui. I wanted to hike across Haleakala crater, but never got around to it.
I went L.E.A.D. in the mid-'80s, once with a non-corps group in the Black Hills during my apprentice year. We were there on L.E.A.D. when we got word that Wierwille had died.
I went again to Tinnie during the second block of my first year in residence.
I actually hitch-hiked three times. The first time, we only made it to Amarillo by the deadline, so we turned around and went back to Emporia. The second time, we made it all the way to Roswell, but we were still late, and had to go back to Gunnison. It took us a long time to get back (I think it was four days) but we had some fun on the way. My partner was hispanic, which I think saved my fundio in some of the little towns north of Santa Fe. One evening we were picked up by an hispanic professor from the university. He took us to the old hacienda of his family's sheep ranch and let us spend the night. It was cool!
I got along well with my L.E.A.D. group supervisor, who gave me my evaluation while I was on "duo".
I dropped out at the end of that block (shortly after the Corps night where G**r read POP). I didn't have any other means to get back home from Gunnison, so I hitch-hiked alone, and then sent TWI money to ship the gear I had boxed up. That was the scariest time I ever hitched, and haven't done it again since. It was highly irresponsible and deplorable for Wierwille and his yes-men to send women and girls out on the road.
There was a BIG difference between the non-WC and the WC sessions. We didn't have to hitch hike, for one thing. The non-WC session was considerate and enjoyable. The focus of the WC session was on getting the results, no matter what it took, positive or NEGATIVE.
I did okay in the woods, because I already had the skills. but looking back, it seems now to me to have been an exercise in the end justifying the means. My L.E.A.D. experiences exerted a major influence on my decision, while on Lightbearers, to manipulate people. I am sorry for that.
The guy who drove us in his semi truck dropped me and my partner off on the circle drive at Emporia and gave us twenty bucks a piece. We had him in for dinner and we sang to him and he cried. His trucker name was "Heartbreaker". For him, giving us a ride was a huge blessing and a big event in his life. We told him lots and lots about Jesus Christ, and he really dug it, and he told us lots about his life. The stop at The Way C of E was a wonderful event for him and us and it was really a good and Godly thing for all of us. We, my partner and I didn't even really try to get him involved or anything, but rather just thanked him and sent him on his way. I remember feeling that I had done something wrong for not "hooking him up" with Wayfers, but we know about hindsight now don't we! :)-->
Our CC, Richard Thomas told us that he didn't care how we got the money, but we had to return with it. We were not told to not spend it, but that we simply had to have ten bucks apiece when we got back. Richard even told us that if it were him, he'd spend it on purpose so that he would have to believe to get it back before returning to Emporia. But that would be our choice he said.
But you were told you had to work for it huh? Weird. It may not be so with all of the Tenth Corps, but alot of us liked Richard Thomas and Linda MacDuffy. They were kinda like "nice cop/mean cop" at times, with Linda being the nice one. I don't remember what happened to anyone in our Corps who came back without the money. In our last year it was JAL and company, but once again, I came back with the money so it wasn't an issue. I can imagine the "red dragon" (Pat L*nn) being a real b*tch about it though..
Vickles I remember youi being singled out and reproved for that BLEAD incident. You might have been belittled but That evening you were one of my heros for being able to stand there in the face of that humiliation. I looked up to you afterwards for that.
Wow, out there, really? I feel overwhelmed and am actually crying!!!!
After the meeting no one would even look at me. I never knew that people would even feel that way.
Out there, really from the bottom of my heart I thank you for telling me that.
Ya know, I had a great time on lEAD, as did most of the people on the sessions that I was on.
But, I do believe that LEAD should have been optional as in voluntary like the rodeo school. It was pretty dangerous, as has been illustrated by the incidences that you all have described. Nothing close to this happened to me and the gals with whom I hitchiked. We had a few "harrowing experiences" on the highway hitch hiking, but they turned into really neat victories.
But I do remember an incident that one person mentioned over on the LEAD Accident thread. And it was the first time that my suspicions proved to be true.
There was a gal in the Tenth Corps who went LEAD with another Tenth Corps guy. It ended up that they came back early, and that Craig got up and said something to the effect that "While hitch hiking Br**o did not live up to his responsibility as a man, and therefore our sister (Mary somebody?) has had this terrible thing happen to her". And because of this guys "failing to live up to his responsibility as a man", he was kicked out of the Corps.
The girl, who did in fact return to Emporia for awhile before she just plain left, had been, as I suspected, raped . I remember seeing her sitting at the tables in the "lunch room" (my wife still calls it the "lunch room" which cracks me up-sounds like "Kindygarden"), and all I can remember is that she "looked like death". She never smiled, and she was in constant torment. And so, I figured that she must have been raped. Well, ya know, no details were ever divulged to us, and, she just plain "left the Corps one day", and I never saw her again, at the Rock or otherwise. I think I saw the guy a few times after that, at the Rock and such, for he was an excellent fiddle player and was always playing at the family tables.
And ya know, I don't know any of these details. But I remember having a great sense of loss over our Corps sister's terrible hurt and trauma, and, I felt great sadness for the guy who had been her hitching partner. This guy, was a really sweet guy. He was very small, skinny, kind, and not real "macho". And since I didn't know the circumstances, how could I have "judged him" for "not being man enough" to ward off some crazed fuc*ing rapist who wanted to steal the soul from our skinny little sister? She was very petite btw. Neither of them were very "formidable", and what if the guy had had a gun? Maybe Br**o couldn't have done a damned thing! Except maybe have gotten his head blown off..
And so, does anybody know anything else about this? I have been curious for years!
You and that harmonica of yours. You played that thing MERRILY as I barely crawled to the top of that mountain that morning.
And that witch (C*nth*a R*ll*r)who was one of the LEAD leaders.
She had a hate on for me something fierce.
Whenever I saw her at ROAs and such afterwards, she would never speak to me nor look in my direction.
LEAD was one of the worse experiences of my life due to the hardness of those people.
I remember hitchhiking all day...being the first groups to arrive and thinking...wow...we'll get a moment to rest. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....(this reminds me of HCW's story from the other thread, how they had him and others sanding a deck at the lodge after that horrendous accident)...
When they picked us up after being awake all night, they gave us shovels and hoes and said, "Go dig our garden." I COULDN'T BELIEVE THEY'D DO THAT TO PEOPLE.
Where the hell where they raised...in a freghen barn?
lingo...by the way...I LOVED your harmonica playing...I was just not in the mood. But your playing reminded me that there were decent humans on this planet...you were one of them.
I wasn't overly happy with the LEAD staff that year. I actually hit it off with your tormenter, and we chummed alot the whole time I was there. She must have been your TC. Mine was Theresa O*ia*d. She didn't seem to like me much actually. But I didn't really care too much what she thought. I had a fairly nice time of it. But, I know that it was very very hard for some people.
One gal in my Corps, Jan somebody absolutely collapsed when she was 100 yds from the top of Sunset Peak and was crying and gasping for breath. That's when I stopped playing my harmonica and being so damned "cheerful" about it all. But she was determined to make it. I stopped and lay there on the ground with her, talked with her, and when she caught her breath enough, I prayed for her and helped her up and we walked to the top. For her it was a big victory. But she, like a couple of other gals, was fairly heavy, and that was one long damned walk for even an "in shape" person!
Did you remember that it was a seventeen mile round trip hike to the top and back? That was a Looonnnggg hike to be sure! And do you remember that on the way down, Connie Nedwick pulled a one or two hundred pound loose boulder from the wall of the ledge we were walking along which consequently caused her to fall down the near vertical slope to our right? Remember that? I was right behind her, and I saw her reach to the left to hang on to this big rock in the wall so she could move with safety along the skinny ledge on that part of the trail. And then, as if in "slow motion" I saw the big rock move as it began to pull free from the wall. I still think of seeing it in like a "freeze frame" kind of a scene.
Yeah, she fell down that slope, was sliding very fast on her butt facing down hill with that boulder falling directly behind her with me scrambling and chasing the boulder which I could not get a handle on (I cut my hands trying to grab it) which eventually hit her square in the back! I was right there when that boulder hit her in the back and made an awful sound as she made a horrible grunting sound. She stopped then, with the boulder against her back. It all happened so fast it was over almost as it started. I rolled the boulder off her back and around her and sent it down the hill and then prayed for her back that it wasn't broken. I remember telling her before I prayed for her that "if ever there was a time to believe when you are prayed for, that time is now, because I think this is serious". And she smiled and said that she knew God would heal her. And then as I began to get her up, your friend Cynthia corrected me for not praying for the scrape on her leg. So I said a "quick one" for her leg and we hauled her up the hill. And I must say that that Connie was one tough cookie. She said her back was fine, and disregarded the bruise/scrape on her leg for the rest of the session. I swear that girl was my hero! She just plain looked some srious stuff in the eye and didn't let it get to her. I marveled at her.
Oh but man was I seriously worried after I saw and heard that boulder hit poor Connie in the back.
Oh yeah, and after I was evaluated, later on, my then girlfriend who was in the Eleventh Corps told me that Theresa O*ia*d's E-VAL of me said that I was very immature, "spiritually" that is, and that this was how it was reported to the mini mogs....
I think that the LEAD program was in good hands when Steve Armstrong was the one time director.
NO...that was the thing... our lovely C*nthia what NOT...I repeat...she was NOT my TC ... M*rk K*lso was. He was a sweetie and we got along just fine. C*nthia just seemed to make it her business to meddle in mine for some unknown reason.
That hike nearly parished me as well. Don't remember anyone collapsing...but I remember when we reached the top, someone did a whole hour teaching while we were there. I slept through the whole thing.
I then I remember running down the mountain because they didn't want us to be walking down the mountain in the dark. So we ran and ran and ran.
I'm not sure if you are talking about the 'skree' they called it when you wrote about the bolder falling on Connie. But I certainly remember running across this 'skree' which were flat bolders lying on the face of a mountain. The mountain had a very sharp grade and if you slipped you could easily start a bolder avalanche. These rocks went for ever.. and here we were running across them.
I then remember arriving back at camp, having to start supper in the dark. I took off my boots and there were blisters the size of a dollar coin..no lie. I had never seen a blister that size before.
I loved my lead experience. -->
The hitchhiking experience...now that's another story for another thread.
Unfukkinbelievable!!! I cannot believe the amount of crap people had to put up with to be in the kork. Well, God bless you guys. He saw your hearts even though the thoughtless/heartless bastages called leadership of The Way International didn't. Between this thread and the thread about the LEAD incident, twi should have had their fat arses sued a jillion times by now. I hope there are many more out there who do try. I want to see that place fold and run into the farking dirt.
You know they always said the greatest leader is the greatest servant, but how often did you actually see that happen in the higher echelon of leadership in THE WAY INTERNATIONAL??
[Refer to the Capital One commercial with David Spade and you will get your answer.]
Ok, maybe I was being a little melodramatic when I said "collapsed". She was just so tired and out of breath and no doubt her legs were killing her, and so, she just laid down, gasping for breath. She was not unconscious or anything like that. Hope I didn't mislead anyone in that way. She was just exhausted and needed to catch her breath. No one berated her for it either, the only one who said anything to her about it at the time was me when I helped her.
There was another gal, a tall blonde 12th Corps gal who did the same thing, but when I stopped to help her, she said; "That's it! It's too much! I quit!" And she laid there for the longest time. And when we finally decided to pack on down the mountain, she finally made it to the top. Just in time for the hike down. She wasn't too happy about that either.
And when we got back to base camp (she was in my twig), she said; "I've had enough I'm going to bed!" And went into her tent. She shared a tent with Peter and Maureen Somebody (married couple- Blake maybe?)), and before they had come to bed after the evening meal, this gal had gotten into Maureens pack and stolen all of their Dr. Scholl's "mole skin" to put on her blisters! That gal was one of my two hitching partners. The other one was Karen Gal*reath.
Yeah, I had blisters from all of that too. It was a tough hike to be sure.
The "skree" stuff was like fields of bowling ball sized rocks on the slopes of the mountains in various places. It was down a slope of skree that Connie slid. She must have had a really sore rear end also! But she never said anything about it. I can hardly believe that I ran down that slope without falling face first. But I think God was with Connie and I...
I do not Know the answer to that Excathedra. I just remember seeing her sitting at the the tables during breakfast, lunch, and dinner with a look of shock and horror on her face. I would not doubt that somebody was spending time with her. I think Linda MacDuffy was a kind and wise woman, and I would not be surprised if she didn't do all that she could for her.
I should go over and check out who it was at the LEAD Accident thread and see who posted the same story and ask them what they knew. Maybe I will cut and paste my first post of this over at that thread and see if anyone over there that might know about it.
I remember that she was a quiet girl with a wry sense of humor, and that the guy could hardly look anyone in the eye after that...
These stories are amazing. Y'all really had hearts to serve and help people for God. It's so obvious seeing as how you put up with TWIts pounding you further and further into the ground. I have a newfound respect for y'all, even though I already did respect you. :)-->
I wonder, if after reading these stories, and knowing that the people going through the corpse training are older and more likely to follow through with lawsuits, if the WAYGB will suggest the re-visit the whole LEAD experience. Naaahhhh, they're not that smart!
I travel so I haven't kept up with this thread and I'll be dammed if I know IF HOWARD ever finished the other thread.(which page??)
I didn't know about what actually happened and what lead up to why Rochelle comitted suicide, but I guess the lead truck wreck had much to do with her mental state of mind.
I honestly thought the thread was going to be about Rochelle but it was about Howard, or so it seemed to me. Her name was mentioned what, 2,3 times???
I just can't continue with the melodrama of it all anymore. I quit reading this forum so long ago and it seems the same players are still playing (those that are playing).
Sometimes the names have changed to protect the innocent, but it seems the mind games, the power, the "look at me", and the melodrama of it all continues.(seems,like Jerry Springer at times!!)
I agree with(whoever said it) that just even trying to remember some of this stuff makes me sick.
We were prisoners of thought, feeding the gristmill of TWI.
Yeah, the melodrama does get pretty thick around here....
Personally, I loved my LEAD experiences (went twice). Never had a real problem on the road, told lots of people about Jesus Christ, Had fun in the mountains, saw some people really get over some fears, like fears of heights, bugs, dirt, not having a "blow dryer", fear of bearing one's derriere in the woods to take a dump, etc etc...
But the two groups I went on just happened to work out just fine. I didn't really like the 11th Corps LEAD instructors too much, at least not all of them, but we got along pretty good.
I learned to quit being a lazy a$$ when it came to "being around camp" and helping with the cooking, cleaning up, and getting ready for the next thing, which was good for me anyway...
I have teen aged kids whom I have taken out into the Alaskan wilds where we live, and have challenged them in similar ways as we were challenged at LEAD, and, it didn't hurt them any.
It is very too bad that there were these bad bad incidents that occurred on LEAD, like the wreck, Kenny Bardin's death at the hands of a redneck truck driver, the rape and beating of a Tenth Corps girl, but since these things did not occur when I went LEAD, I have taken the good that I learned from the experience, and have capitalized on it...
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excathedra
they let P*t P*w*ll be in charge ?????
whose a** was he kissing ? oh yeah, pat's
--
mzimagine, too funny !!!!!! i would have told you sooner but i fell asleep during your post....
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Out There
"One of my elder corps kept on asking me questions about where I got the money and where did I work. Finally I told her. She reported me and that night I was called before the whole 9th and 11th corps. (Remember I was still tramautized) I had to stand there while everyone else was sitting and be screamed at and belittled for what felt like hours. I felt like nothing. I balled for the rest of the night. I had no strength left."
Vickles I remember youi being singled out and reproved for that BLEAD incident. You might have been belittled but That evening you were one of my heros for being able to stand there in the face of that humiliation. I looked up to you afterwards for that.
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Steve Lortz
I don't have any personal horror stories about L.E.A.D. My dad loved to camp and we went out nearly every summer. When I was in the Navy, I had backpacking gear, and I'd go out sometimes when we had a long weekend. I backpacked by myself up in the Adironacks and on the island of Maui. I wanted to hike across Haleakala crater, but never got around to it.
I went L.E.A.D. in the mid-'80s, once with a non-corps group in the Black Hills during my apprentice year. We were there on L.E.A.D. when we got word that Wierwille had died.
I went again to Tinnie during the second block of my first year in residence.
I actually hitch-hiked three times. The first time, we only made it to Amarillo by the deadline, so we turned around and went back to Emporia. The second time, we made it all the way to Roswell, but we were still late, and had to go back to Gunnison. It took us a long time to get back (I think it was four days) but we had some fun on the way. My partner was hispanic, which I think saved my fundio in some of the little towns north of Santa Fe. One evening we were picked up by an hispanic professor from the university. He took us to the old hacienda of his family's sheep ranch and let us spend the night. It was cool!
I got along well with my L.E.A.D. group supervisor, who gave me my evaluation while I was on "duo".
I dropped out at the end of that block (shortly after the Corps night where G**r read POP). I didn't have any other means to get back home from Gunnison, so I hitch-hiked alone, and then sent TWI money to ship the gear I had boxed up. That was the scariest time I ever hitched, and haven't done it again since. It was highly irresponsible and deplorable for Wierwille and his yes-men to send women and girls out on the road.
There was a BIG difference between the non-WC and the WC sessions. We didn't have to hitch hike, for one thing. The non-WC session was considerate and enjoyable. The focus of the WC session was on getting the results, no matter what it took, positive or NEGATIVE.
I did okay in the woods, because I already had the skills. but looking back, it seems now to me to have been an exercise in the end justifying the means. My L.E.A.D. experiences exerted a major influence on my decision, while on Lightbearers, to manipulate people. I am sorry for that.
Love,
Steve
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J0nny Ling0
The guy who drove us in his semi truck dropped me and my partner off on the circle drive at Emporia and gave us twenty bucks a piece. We had him in for dinner and we sang to him and he cried. His trucker name was "Heartbreaker". For him, giving us a ride was a huge blessing and a big event in his life. We told him lots and lots about Jesus Christ, and he really dug it, and he told us lots about his life. The stop at The Way C of E was a wonderful event for him and us and it was really a good and Godly thing for all of us. We, my partner and I didn't even really try to get him involved or anything, but rather just thanked him and sent him on his way. I remember feeling that I had done something wrong for not "hooking him up" with Wayfers, but we know about hindsight now don't we!
:)-->
Our CC, Richard Thomas told us that he didn't care how we got the money, but we had to return with it. We were not told to not spend it, but that we simply had to have ten bucks apiece when we got back. Richard even told us that if it were him, he'd spend it on purpose so that he would have to believe to get it back before returning to Emporia. But that would be our choice he said.
But you were told you had to work for it huh? Weird. It may not be so with all of the Tenth Corps, but alot of us liked Richard Thomas and Linda MacDuffy. They were kinda like "nice cop/mean cop" at times, with Linda being the nice one. I don't remember what happened to anyone in our Corps who came back without the money. In our last year it was JAL and company, but once again, I came back with the money so it wasn't an issue. I can imagine the "red dragon" (Pat L*nn) being a real b*tch about it though..
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vickles
Wow, out there, really? I feel overwhelmed and am actually crying!!!!
After the meeting no one would even look at me. I never knew that people would even feel that way.
Out there, really from the bottom of my heart I thank you for telling me that.
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jardinero
(((((((((Vickles)))))))))))
pretty crappy how that stuff stays with us. I'm sure you inspired a lot of people over the years, sweetie.
J.
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excathedra
vickles, they couldn't look at you because they felt like dang for you. well at least the majority of them.
i mean anyone normal would feel horrible. but they shamed us so bad. and it's that group think stuff.
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J0nny Ling0
Ya know, I had a great time on lEAD, as did most of the people on the sessions that I was on.
But, I do believe that LEAD should have been optional as in voluntary like the rodeo school. It was pretty dangerous, as has been illustrated by the incidences that you all have described. Nothing close to this happened to me and the gals with whom I hitchiked. We had a few "harrowing experiences" on the highway hitch hiking, but they turned into really neat victories.
But I do remember an incident that one person mentioned over on the LEAD Accident thread. And it was the first time that my suspicions proved to be true.
There was a gal in the Tenth Corps who went LEAD with another Tenth Corps guy. It ended up that they came back early, and that Craig got up and said something to the effect that "While hitch hiking Br**o did not live up to his responsibility as a man, and therefore our sister (Mary somebody?) has had this terrible thing happen to her". And because of this guys "failing to live up to his responsibility as a man", he was kicked out of the Corps.
The girl, who did in fact return to Emporia for awhile before she just plain left, had been, as I suspected, raped . I remember seeing her sitting at the tables in the "lunch room" (my wife still calls it the "lunch room" which cracks me up-sounds like "Kindygarden"), and all I can remember is that she "looked like death". She never smiled, and she was in constant torment. And so, I figured that she must have been raped. Well, ya know, no details were ever divulged to us, and, she just plain "left the Corps one day", and I never saw her again, at the Rock or otherwise. I think I saw the guy a few times after that, at the Rock and such, for he was an excellent fiddle player and was always playing at the family tables.
And ya know, I don't know any of these details. But I remember having a great sense of loss over our Corps sister's terrible hurt and trauma, and, I felt great sadness for the guy who had been her hitching partner. This guy, was a really sweet guy. He was very small, skinny, kind, and not real "macho". And since I didn't know the circumstances, how could I have "judged him" for "not being man enough" to ward off some crazed fuc*ing rapist who wanted to steal the soul from our skinny little sister? She was very petite btw. Neither of them were very "formidable", and what if the guy had had a gun? Maybe Br**o couldn't have done a damned thing! Except maybe have gotten his head blown off..
And so, does anybody know anything else about this? I have been curious for years!
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excathedra
i don't know but it's terribly terribly heartbreaking
how dare craig ! oh i don't even want to get into it
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A la prochaine
Lingo LEAD Bro',
I went LEAD with you
-->
You and that harmonica of yours. You played that thing MERRILY
as I barely crawled to the top of that mountain that morning.
And that witch (C*nth*a R*ll*r)who was one of the LEAD leaders.
She had a hate on for me something fierce.
Whenever I saw her at ROAs and such afterwards, she would never speak to me nor look in my direction.
LEAD was one of the worse experiences of my life due to the hardness of those people.
I remember hitchhiking all day...being the first groups to arrive and thinking...wow...we'll get a moment to rest. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....(this reminds me of HCW's story from the other thread, how they had him and others sanding a deck at the lodge after that horrendous accident)...
When they picked us up after being awake all night, they gave us shovels and hoes and said, "Go dig our garden." I COULDN'T BELIEVE THEY'D DO THAT TO PEOPLE.
Where the hell where they raised...in a freghen barn?
lingo...by the way...I LOVED your harmonica playing...I was just not in the mood. But your playing reminded me that there were decent humans on this planet...you were one of them.
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J0nny Ling0
Well Ala P,
I wasn't overly happy with the LEAD staff that year. I actually hit it off with your tormenter, and we chummed alot the whole time I was there. She must have been your TC. Mine was Theresa O*ia*d. She didn't seem to like me much actually. But I didn't really care too much what she thought. I had a fairly nice time of it. But, I know that it was very very hard for some people.
One gal in my Corps, Jan somebody absolutely collapsed when she was 100 yds from the top of Sunset Peak and was crying and gasping for breath. That's when I stopped playing my harmonica and being so damned "cheerful" about it all. But she was determined to make it. I stopped and lay there on the ground with her, talked with her, and when she caught her breath enough, I prayed for her and helped her up and we walked to the top. For her it was a big victory. But she, like a couple of other gals, was fairly heavy, and that was one long damned walk for even an "in shape" person!
Did you remember that it was a seventeen mile round trip hike to the top and back? That was a Looonnnggg hike to be sure! And do you remember that on the way down, Connie Nedwick pulled a one or two hundred pound loose boulder from the wall of the ledge we were walking along which consequently caused her to fall down the near vertical slope to our right? Remember that? I was right behind her, and I saw her reach to the left to hang on to this big rock in the wall so she could move with safety along the skinny ledge on that part of the trail. And then, as if in "slow motion" I saw the big rock move as it began to pull free from the wall. I still think of seeing it in like a "freeze frame" kind of a scene.
Yeah, she fell down that slope, was sliding very fast on her butt facing down hill with that boulder falling directly behind her with me scrambling and chasing the boulder which I could not get a handle on (I cut my hands trying to grab it) which eventually hit her square in the back! I was right there when that boulder hit her in the back and made an awful sound as she made a horrible grunting sound. She stopped then, with the boulder against her back. It all happened so fast it was over almost as it started. I rolled the boulder off her back and around her and sent it down the hill and then prayed for her back that it wasn't broken. I remember telling her before I prayed for her that "if ever there was a time to believe when you are prayed for, that time is now, because I think this is serious". And she smiled and said that she knew God would heal her. And then as I began to get her up, your friend Cynthia corrected me for not praying for the scrape on her leg. So I said a "quick one" for her leg and we hauled her up the hill. And I must say that that Connie was one tough cookie. She said her back was fine, and disregarded the bruise/scrape on her leg for the rest of the session. I swear that girl was my hero! She just plain looked some srious stuff in the eye and didn't let it get to her. I marveled at her.
Oh but man was I seriously worried after I saw and heard that boulder hit poor Connie in the back.
Oh yeah, and after I was evaluated, later on, my then girlfriend who was in the Eleventh Corps told me that Theresa O*ia*d's E-VAL of me said that I was very immature, "spiritually" that is, and that this was how it was reported to the mini mogs....
I think that the LEAD program was in good hands when Steve Armstrong was the one time director.
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A la prochaine
Jonny...
NO...that was the thing... our lovely C*nthia what NOT...I repeat...she was NOT my TC ... M*rk K*lso was. He was a sweetie and we got along just fine. C*nthia just seemed to make it her business to meddle in mine for some unknown reason.
That hike nearly parished me as well. Don't remember anyone collapsing...but I remember when we reached the top, someone did a whole hour teaching while we were there. I slept through the whole thing.
I then I remember running down the mountain because they didn't want us to be walking down the mountain in the dark. So we ran and ran and ran.
I'm not sure if you are talking about the 'skree' they called it when you wrote about the bolder falling on Connie. But I certainly remember running across this 'skree' which were flat bolders lying on the face of a mountain. The mountain had a very sharp grade and if you slipped you could easily start a bolder avalanche. These rocks went for ever.. and here we were running across them.
I then remember arriving back at camp, having to start supper in the dark. I took off my boots and there were blisters the size of a dollar coin..no lie. I had never seen a blister that size before.
I loved my lead experience.
-->
The hitchhiking experience...now that's another story for another thread.
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Nottawayfer
Unfukkinbelievable!!! I cannot believe the amount of crap people had to put up with to be in the kork. Well, God bless you guys. He saw your hearts even though the thoughtless/heartless bastages called leadership of The Way International didn't. Between this thread and the thread about the LEAD incident, twi should have had their fat arses sued a jillion times by now. I hope there are many more out there who do try. I want to see that place fold and run into the farking dirt.
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Nottawayfer
You know they always said the greatest leader is the greatest servant, but how often did you actually see that happen in the higher echelon of leadership in THE WAY INTERNATIONAL??
[Refer to the Capital One commercial with David Spade and you will get your answer.]
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J0nny Ling0
Ok, maybe I was being a little melodramatic when I said "collapsed". She was just so tired and out of breath and no doubt her legs were killing her, and so, she just laid down, gasping for breath. She was not unconscious or anything like that. Hope I didn't mislead anyone in that way. She was just exhausted and needed to catch her breath. No one berated her for it either, the only one who said anything to her about it at the time was me when I helped her.
There was another gal, a tall blonde 12th Corps gal who did the same thing, but when I stopped to help her, she said; "That's it! It's too much! I quit!" And she laid there for the longest time. And when we finally decided to pack on down the mountain, she finally made it to the top. Just in time for the hike down. She wasn't too happy about that either.
And when we got back to base camp (she was in my twig), she said; "I've had enough I'm going to bed!" And went into her tent. She shared a tent with Peter and Maureen Somebody (married couple- Blake maybe?)), and before they had come to bed after the evening meal, this gal had gotten into Maureens pack and stolen all of their Dr. Scholl's "mole skin" to put on her blisters! That gal was one of my two hitching partners. The other one was Karen Gal*reath.
Yeah, I had blisters from all of that too. It was a tough hike to be sure.
The "skree" stuff was like fields of bowling ball sized rocks on the slopes of the mountains in various places. It was down a slope of skree that Connie slid. She must have had a really sore rear end also! But she never said anything about it. I can hardly believe that I ran down that slope without falling face first. But I think God was with Connie and I...
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WordWolf
BTW,
something reminded me of this.....
Did anyone here ever hear what vpw said out loud about the present
danger of women hitchhiking to LEAD and getting raped?
He spoke about it.
Anyone with a copy of the "Heart of the Way Corps" tapes can play
the 2 that were recordings of vpw, and hear what he said.
I never memorized his response-but I believe I still have the tapes
fairly handy if it's really needed....
He said people had complained that women could get raped hitch-hiking.
He responded that women could get raped in areas they normally
travelled in (some valley-Green Valley, maybe?), and used THAT as his
justification for saying this objection was groundless.
Would anyone out there care to replay it and report back EXACTLY what
he said on the subject?
It's about a minute or so after he says
"You'll hitchhike to L.E.A.D. even if you NEVER make it."
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excathedra
yeah vee pee people can get raped in areas they normally travel in
for some, hitching to lead was safer than being around you
ps. i don't remember about that poor 10th corps girl and partner. that's really really upsetting, horrible. did she get counseling, any help ? ohmygod
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J0nny Ling0
I do not Know the answer to that Excathedra. I just remember seeing her sitting at the the tables during breakfast, lunch, and dinner with a look of shock and horror on her face. I would not doubt that somebody was spending time with her. I think Linda MacDuffy was a kind and wise woman, and I would not be surprised if she didn't do all that she could for her.
I should go over and check out who it was at the LEAD Accident thread and see who posted the same story and ask them what they knew. Maybe I will cut and paste my first post of this over at that thread and see if anyone over there that might know about it.
I remember that she was a quiet girl with a wry sense of humor, and that the guy could hardly look anyone in the eye after that...
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Belle
These stories are amazing. Y'all really had hearts to serve and help people for God. It's so obvious seeing as how you put up with TWIts pounding you further and further into the ground. I have a newfound respect for y'all, even though I already did respect you.
:)-->
I wonder, if after reading these stories, and knowing that the people going through the corpse training are older and more likely to follow through with lawsuits, if the WAYGB will suggest the re-visit the whole LEAD experience. Naaahhhh, they're not that smart!
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Out There
Safety never seemed to be an issue at BLEAD. I never heard of a group coming back that didn't have at least one incident of someone bleeding.
It was a tough program but in the end it changed everyones life whoever went there. Hopefully for the better
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suz
I travel so I haven't kept up with this thread and I'll be dammed if I know IF HOWARD ever finished the other thread.(which page??)
I didn't know about what actually happened and what lead up to why Rochelle comitted suicide, but I guess the lead truck wreck had much to do with her mental state of mind.
I honestly thought the thread was going to be about Rochelle but it was about Howard, or so it seemed to me. Her name was mentioned what, 2,3 times???
I just can't continue with the melodrama of it all anymore. I quit reading this forum so long ago and it seems the same players are still playing (those that are playing).
Sometimes the names have changed to protect the innocent, but it seems the mind games, the power, the "look at me", and the melodrama of it all continues.(seems,like Jerry Springer at times!!)
I agree with(whoever said it) that just even trying to remember some of this stuff makes me sick.
We were prisoners of thought, feeding the gristmill of TWI.
(some continue to feed the mill)
movin on in life
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J0nny Ling0
Yeah, the melodrama does get pretty thick around here....
Personally, I loved my LEAD experiences (went twice). Never had a real problem on the road, told lots of people about Jesus Christ, Had fun in the mountains, saw some people really get over some fears, like fears of heights, bugs, dirt, not having a "blow dryer", fear of bearing one's derriere in the woods to take a dump, etc etc...
But the two groups I went on just happened to work out just fine. I didn't really like the 11th Corps LEAD instructors too much, at least not all of them, but we got along pretty good.
I learned to quit being a lazy a$$ when it came to "being around camp" and helping with the cooking, cleaning up, and getting ready for the next thing, which was good for me anyway...
I have teen aged kids whom I have taken out into the Alaskan wilds where we live, and have challenged them in similar ways as we were challenged at LEAD, and, it didn't hurt them any.
It is very too bad that there were these bad bad incidents that occurred on LEAD, like the wreck, Kenny Bardin's death at the hands of a redneck truck driver, the rape and beating of a Tenth Corps girl, but since these things did not occur when I went LEAD, I have taken the good that I learned from the experience, and have capitalized on it...
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