Bluzeman - along those lines, is there any way anyoe except Pawtucket can ascertain our individual IP addresses from posting here?
Also - is there any way to determine the IP address from individual email correspondance, and if so, how much info can they ger....legally or otherwise?
I obviously don't take a lot of effort to conceal my identity, but if it was me that sent the letter, I'd be on the phone to Pitney-Bowes to let them know about a potential comprimising of their security codes. I'd bet they'd be pretty anxious to know about the incident.
your IP address should be safe. But your IP address, whether you know this or not, is embedded in emails that you send. And it can be sniffed, I believe when you are using IM's such as AIM.
But the situation in question is not internet related. Every metered mail has an account number attached to it. Someone contacted Pitney-Bowes and the information was handed over as to which company had that account. It was then easy to go to local leadership and find out who worked there.
I used to work for Pitney Bowes and I am the one who stated they had to have gained the information illegitimately. It would appear I was incorrect because the laws have changed since I worked there.
Each meter has a unique serial number which is used to keep track of the meter and its use. (It was my job to insure all meters were inspected according to federal law). It used to be that the identity of the owner of the machine was not public information. It appears that law was changed in 1997.
As of May 12,1997 the law now reads:
"The name and address of a meter user, and the name of any person applying for a permit on behalf of the user, may be disclosed to any member of the public provided that the requester at the time of the request supplies the applicable meter serial number [which is printed on the envelope] and the name or ZIP code of the licensing post office as they appear in meter indicia."
quote: Despite this misinformation - it does show that TWI is willing to go out of its way to identify the "nay sayers".
Too true, Abigail. Many people have stories of the extreme lengths they have gone to in order to "out" people they consider to be "trouble makers". Just the sheer fact that people feel like they have to do things 'incognito' should tell them something about their organization.
Why does it matter who sent that? Why does it bother them? Because it raises legitimate questions? It exposes people to another side of the story? Because it might get people to start thinking and making logical conclusions on their own?
Hate to say this, folks, but TWI's perfectly legal action in discovering who sent the letter is also perfectly normal. If you were a pastor or on the board of a church, and received an anonymous letter about alleged doctrinal errors, purportedly from a member of the church, might not you also attempt to discover the source?
It's legal for TWI to seek the information, but illegal for Pitney Bowes to provide it (assuming Bluzeman to be correct). If TWI just asked for it and received it, they did nothing wrong (again, assuming Bluzeman to be correct about the law on this). But if they did anything else, (a payoff, a mole, etc), then that would be of, shall I say, questionable legality.
By TWI doctrine using the mail meter at work is stealing.(Yeah right) Just a reminder of what your are dealing with if you deal with them.
See, the doctrinal error being pointed out probably was right on. But not only did the sender leave a trail, they also gave a perfectly good excuse for the Mog’s and Moget’s to call it error.
All mail to them should be sent from as far away as you are able to get. If you travel to another state, drop it off there. Just run it to a town near by that has a lot of innies, really send out the witch hunters! Oh, when ever possible mail from a box close to an active corpes’ home.
As far as IP addresses go, if you use a dial-up service, you get a different IP address every time since you log onto a different server most every time. Using a dial-up service, therefore, would require even law enforcement (never mind TWI) to obtain a court order before the dial-up service would be able to identify you. This does not mean that it's impossible for someone who knows how to trace "back jumps" to come close to finding out who you are, just extremely difficult. See, even with dial-up, you log into the same group of servers, unless you travel out of your local area a lot.
If you're on a DSL, or Cable Modem, or at your place of employment on a T1,T4, or ISDN service, you almost always log into the same server with the same IP address every time. This is far more easily traced than the dial-up method. Still, to obtain your name from the vast majority of IPs (Internet Providers) still requires a court order or a search warrant. Those few IPs who give out customer information just for asking are IMHO irresponsible.
It's legal for TWI to seek the information, but illegal for Pitney Bowes to provide it (assuming Bluzeman to be correct). If TWI just asked for it and received it, they did nothing wrong (again, assuming Bluzeman to be correct about the law on this). But if they did anything else, (a payoff, a mole, etc), then that would be of, shall I say, questionable legality.
Pitney Bowes probably wouldn't even be involved. The USPS will disclose the name and address of any meter user to anyone who requests it and provides the requisite information, which is printed on the envelope by the postage meter. All one needs to do is to take the envelope to the post office and ask.
What I posted was information that was related to me by another individual, who didn't want they're name associated with the incident. As far as the veracity of the illegal claim, I posted what I was told by this person, who I truely believe thought it to be illegal at the time.
See my post above. The person who sent you the information did believe it, Bluz. I'm the one who told them it was illegal. I was mistaken because the law was changed in 1997 and I was unaware of that.
This is crazy..yesterday at work I pulled up GS on my work computer. The screen was white and said this has been blocked from the server..yikes!! They blocked me!! I look at home websites and shop online on lunch. why didnt they block that!!!!!!!
I don't know why I'm surprised. I mean, remember the people who were set up by TWI by false announcements made at certain meetings to see if they were posted on WayDale? Remember Dobby? Remember Oakspear when he was TWYRIL? (Oak, I know I spelled it wrong, sorry!) Remember the other posters "outed" by malicious and slimy tactics?
They should wonder why people don't feel free to speak up and what the problem is if people feel it necessary to seek refuge and information on the web. Instead they just get more indignant and vindictive.
I agree with those posters who feel that legal or not, this was information that should be made known. And, thank you JustThinking for starting the thread.
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krys
Bluzeman - along those lines, is there any way anyoe except Pawtucket can ascertain our individual IP addresses from posting here?
Also - is there any way to determine the IP address from individual email correspondance, and if so, how much info can they ger....legally or otherwise?
Thanks
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George Aar
I obviously don't take a lot of effort to conceal my identity, but if it was me that sent the letter, I'd be on the phone to Pitney-Bowes to let them know about a potential comprimising of their security codes. I'd bet they'd be pretty anxious to know about the incident.
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pawtucket
Krys,
your IP address should be safe. But your IP address, whether you know this or not, is embedded in emails that you send. And it can be sniffed, I believe when you are using IM's such as AIM.
But the situation in question is not internet related. Every metered mail has an account number attached to it. Someone contacted Pitney-Bowes and the information was handed over as to which company had that account. It was then easy to go to local leadership and find out who worked there.
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Abigail
I used to work for Pitney Bowes and I am the one who stated they had to have gained the information illegitimately. It would appear I was incorrect because the laws have changed since I worked there.
Each meter has a unique serial number which is used to keep track of the meter and its use. (It was my job to insure all meters were inspected according to federal law). It used to be that the identity of the owner of the machine was not public information. It appears that law was changed in 1997.
As of May 12,1997 the law now reads:
"The name and address of a meter user, and the name of any person applying for a permit on behalf of the user, may be disclosed to any member of the public provided that the requester at the time of the request supplies the applicable meter serial number [which is printed on the envelope] and the name or ZIP code of the licensing post office as they appear in meter indicia."
I apologize for the misinformation.
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Abigail
Despite this misinformation - it does show that TWI is willing to go out of its way to identify the "nay sayers".
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Belle
Too true, Abigail. Many people have stories of the extreme lengths they have gone to in order to "out" people they consider to be "trouble makers". Just the sheer fact that people feel like they have to do things 'incognito' should tell them something about their organization.
Why does it matter who sent that? Why does it bother them? Because it raises legitimate questions? It exposes people to another side of the story? Because it might get people to start thinking and making logical conclusions on their own?
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krys
I know that my IP adress is embedded in the email.
If you're a law enforcement agency you can get the name of the person and addres from somewhere....
maybe that's why people maintain Yahoo accounts
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LG
Hate to say this, folks, but TWI's perfectly legal action in discovering who sent the letter is also perfectly normal. If you were a pastor or on the board of a church, and received an anonymous letter about alleged doctrinal errors, purportedly from a member of the church, might not you also attempt to discover the source?
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Raf
It's legal for TWI to seek the information, but illegal for Pitney Bowes to provide it (assuming Bluzeman to be correct). If TWI just asked for it and received it, they did nothing wrong (again, assuming Bluzeman to be correct about the law on this). But if they did anything else, (a payoff, a mole, etc), then that would be of, shall I say, questionable legality.
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wingnut
By TWI doctrine using the mail meter at work is stealing.(Yeah right) Just a reminder of what your are dealing with if you deal with them.
See, the doctrinal error being pointed out probably was right on. But not only did the sender leave a trail, they also gave a perfectly good excuse for the Mog’s and Moget’s to call it error.
All mail to them should be sent from as far away as you are able to get. If you travel to another state, drop it off there. Just run it to a town near by that has a lot of innies, really send out the witch hunters! Oh, when ever possible mail from a box close to an active corpes’ home.
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Radar OReilly
Any way you look at it....
The WayGb HAVE WAYYYYY TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS and they need to get hobbies OTHER THAN trying to ruin decent people's lives.
ror
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krys
Good evening, Mr. Linder! Have a nice day.
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pawtucket
Your IP address shows up on Yahoo accounts also
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Steve Swenton
As far as IP addresses go, if you use a dial-up service, you get a different IP address every time since you log onto a different server most every time. Using a dial-up service, therefore, would require even law enforcement (never mind TWI) to obtain a court order before the dial-up service would be able to identify you. This does not mean that it's impossible for someone who knows how to trace "back jumps" to come close to finding out who you are, just extremely difficult. See, even with dial-up, you log into the same group of servers, unless you travel out of your local area a lot.
If you're on a DSL, or Cable Modem, or at your place of employment on a T1,T4, or ISDN service, you almost always log into the same server with the same IP address every time. This is far more easily traced than the dial-up method. Still, to obtain your name from the vast majority of IPs (Internet Providers) still requires a court order or a search warrant. Those few IPs who give out customer information just for asking are IMHO irresponsible.
Just a thought...
Steve.
¥
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LG
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JustThinking
It sounds like the solution is to just go buy a stamp?
JT
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Bluzeman
What I posted was information that was related to me by another individual, who didn't want they're name associated with the incident. As far as the veracity of the illegal claim, I posted what I was told by this person, who I truely believe thought it to be illegal at the time.
Rick
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Abigail
See my post above. The person who sent you the information did believe it, Bluz. I'm the one who told them it was illegal. I was mistaken because the law was changed in 1997 and I was unaware of that.
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Bluzeman
Understood, Abi. Just making sure people know I'm just the messenger!
:)-->
Rick
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likeaneagle
This is crazy..yesterday at work I pulled up GS on my work computer. The screen was white and said this has been blocked from the server..yikes!! They blocked me!! I look at home websites and shop online on lunch. why didnt they block that!!!!!!!
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JustThinking
Bluze & Abi,
Even if it's not illegal, it's probably a good thing to make folks aware of.
JT
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Raf
Thanks for the clarification, Long Gone.
If it wasn't illegal, fine. It was petty and vindictive.
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Belle
I don't know why I'm surprised. I mean, remember the people who were set up by TWI by false announcements made at certain meetings to see if they were posted on WayDale? Remember Dobby? Remember Oakspear when he was TWYRIL? (Oak, I know I spelled it wrong, sorry!) Remember the other posters "outed" by malicious and slimy tactics?
They should wonder why people don't feel free to speak up and what the problem is if people feel it necessary to seek refuge and information on the web. Instead they just get more indignant and vindictive.
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Bluzeman
I agree with those posters who feel that legal or not, this was information that should be made known. And, thank you JustThinking for starting the thread.
Rick
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