I don't think you could physically fit 15 people in the back of a Ford F-250,Jack...I think this thing was some military surplus vehicle that the way purchased and may have been originally a multi-use vehical...I've never seen it,but I would be kind of curious as to what type of truck it was...
I was just in the chat room talking about this thread. Another person said they were at HQ's and didn't know very much about what happened at the time of the accident. I talked to another old friend who had been also on staff at the time and she never even heard about it at all.
Now... if TWI was REALLY the "family of God"... if we were really in "the household"... wouldn't we have heard about it? Even if for no other reason than to pray for the people involved?
I know if anything happened to my sister - I'd sure as hell know about it! And I would do whatever was in my power to help and love and care for her to the best of my ability.
It just pi$$es me off that most of us - Corps or not - knew NOTHING about this accident. We used to have 24 hours of prayer for classes that were running for Gawd's sake...
Jackmm: Keep in mind that if you load a trailer with 3,000 pounds, you may only have a tongue weight of 300 pounds (depending upon whether it is a single axle or a double axle trailer and depending upon the length of the tongue and how the weight was distributed in the trailer).
I did question them. The outcome of it I was shamed for thinking evil.
This idea of why didnt we "stand up to them" is insane in and of itself, the "them was us: which met me and of course God almighty His self.
who was any one in twi really?
and that is what it was all about who was who and the constant play for power and say so for the control of others.
it was a cult people got hurt.
a family member of mine fell in a loading dock between the truck and the dock he also compacted his disks , He landed on his feet and didn't feel any pain for about three weeks like you it was a progressive injury. today he is in a wheel chair unable to walk at all. He was 27 years old at the time. The company fought him for disability for over 5 years saying he was not as hurt as the DR. claimed.
Twi was a business filled with business men and women who had a bottom line which is always the same , the twist twi put on the whole mess was the name of Jesus christ met we were no longer allowed to be human. Much less children of an all Powerful God unless they approved of it first.
I have seen injuries such as yours and I would say God certainy helped you through much and kept his very hand of protection and love with you in spite of all the trouble and pain.
It is well documented brain injuries do cause personality changes and some times it is very drastic .. my sister had a small stroke and today she is so different I do not even know who she is her own children say she has a different personality, she is paranoid and frightened and unable to cope like she did beofre the blood loss, the suicide Of Rochele may be a direct medical consequence to the injury and the recovery of her brain organ and THEN to be dealt with in such a harsh manner!! It is enough to find hopelessness in life, such an injury takes years to recover from mentaly not to metion her brain was bruised and not functioning well enough to cope with the stress of being asked to leave.
WOW. I think this is an unlawful death crime . Charges could have been brought forth, a company is liable for injury when in their establishment as is a homeowner.. TWI must have had on heck of a release form saying you could be torn from limb to limb (sorry for the pun) but really be damaged or die and they would not accept the responsibility. or some one would have sued.. Now my question is this if it is all about believing God then what the hell was the crooked lawyer doing calling the shots for twi? hmm? yeah YOU just need to believe God we got our asses covered by the mighty dollar the insurance lawyer and twi lawyers charge to do their bidding in America.
As far as being as Niave as I was then Satori. No I do not think so, but the idea of becoming bitter and full of rage to trusting others at their word of loving you and caring about you and wanting to be more of a good person for God is not NIave, it is being human and what makes the world a good place.
The only other option is to wake up everyday full of resentment and bitterness and thinking those you trust and love will hurt you, I chose not to live that way.
Call me what you will, but storys such as this one Prove the evilness and goodness of man. God is still on the throne working with all of us to see us through very difficult days. He was then and He is now.
A very close family member was involved in an accident in which the other driver died. It was an accident, no was was drunk or on drugs it was during the day it was an accident.. he was sued for unlawful death. (his insurance company and him) how can twi get away with this??? Come on they had how many in the back of a pick up truck? legal or not it is dangerous and stupid why didnt anyone sue?
HCW, I think I missed it...but if you don't mind could you tell us how you talked them into you staying?
I went through something similar and tried but they said if I didn't leave on my own they would carry me out and the way it was said to me I believe they would have.
HCW, this is so hard for me since I was in the 11th the first year. Rochelle was a friend of mine that year. I never knew until now about the accident or her suicide. I thought we just lost track through the years.
I may be able to speak with some authority on some things, the truck is not one of them. I'm a city kid, an artist, a "white collar worker." Some people in the Corps used to tease me when we did those workin' in the woods days cause I'd come out with color cordinated "work" clothes.
Cracks me up. Sorry, this whole thread brings up lost of memories... Like, those of you whove been on LEAD will remember how, as the week went on people appearance would gradually decline and we'd become, quite the malodorus, dirty bunch.
People playfully hated on me when I showed up at our final campfire in a clean, matching outfit, smelling like Grey Flannel.
Donnie Smith was said that John Lynn and I were the only two people he ever saw go on LEAD and NOT get dirty!
Anyways... It was a big, white Ford. I know enough about trucks now to know it had an extended bed and heavy duty suspension. It sat way up un the air on at least 20" wheels with big fat heavy duty knobby tires. It was probaby a late 70's model.
You guy that know more about truck specs may be able to translate that into something more coherent. I'm not saying I don't know anything about vehicles, etc. I know a good bit. I'm just not a "Ford truck man" like the commercial says. I'm the guy who makes the commerical about the Ford truck man.
I really don't think the truck was overloaded. It was big enough that the 13 people fit in the back easily. It was fifteen total w/ Kevin & I in the cab.
The trailer was built sturdy. They had taken a heavy duty truck axle and built a box on it. single axle.
Even though it was a well built trailer and all, I'd have to agree there was enough $$ in the TWI coffers to buy even a custom made transport vehicle. They could have furnished the entire LEAD program w/ "nothing but the best."
From my POV, there was this frugal attitude @ HQ that never changed once TWI got rich.
I may not know a whole lot about pickup trucks but I know enough about corporate finance to know that they could have assessed the needs at LEAD and purchased all of the best across the boad.
Way back in the day there wasn't enough money available to buy everything the ministry needed. Mrs. VPW would go to estate auctions, flea markets, etc. To get stuff like cabinets that were odd lots or overstocked items. Then Way builders would build counter-tops to fit the cabinets. That was how we originally furnished most of the offices in the OSC in 1979.
However, some who ran organizations in TWI were not corporately savvy enough to know to ASK for budget for their depts. I'm not shifting "blame" here, just calling it like I saw it. I'm hoping this illucidates the fact that Howard Allen was responsible for LEAD at the trustee level.
HA, in my opinion, turned from the old foundation of small business thinking. When money finally starts rolling in from the business, you funnel it back to the business to build the business so the business can function properly to grow to its critical mass.
I think they felt at the top that when the money started rolling in they could continue to run the ministry "on a shoestring and a prayer," attitude, being frugal and "careful" with capital expenditures. That "frugality" filled the coffers, legitimate ministry financial needs mere neglected. At least, indirectly, lives were lost.
It is this way NOW, more than ever. Anyone with any knowledge of business finance, or even balancing the family check book can tell you this:
When my two little "eatin' everything in sight" boys are not with me, I'm at least $25.00 richer that weekend because I don't have to feed them. ($25.00 = 1 trip to McDonalds, plus two days worth of snacks.) Not to mention, two days worth of clothing, water for bathing, soap, spatulas and scrubbing equipment to get the dirt from them, shampoo, hair products, brush, 20% of my rent for the extra room I need to house them; divided by 30 - multiplied by 2, a portion of electric, heat to run the playstation and computer they play on, two video games, one movie rental; AND my time spent playing with them, yelling at them (don't BREAK your brother's ARM), plus an hour of mental anguish from telling them "NO, we CAN'T eat at McDonalds EVERY meal Every day!"
Then they say, "Ok Daddy... can we eat at Burger King then?
All that goes to say, SIMILAR amount of money means less hungry ministries eatin' it up.
Wanna challenge me on it? While we were suffering from our LEAD injuries. TWI was paying lawyers to fight the IRS for tax exempt status. It came out in the fallout fron POP that TWI ran up (make a loose fist with your right hand, stick out your pinky on that hand, put the pinky to the right corner of your mouth & repeat after me....)
"Oone MILLION DOOllars... humm, humm humm."
(catch that reference soulmates!)
Earl Burton also lost, in a stock investment... humm..."Oone MILLION DOOllars...
I've scrolled up and down these last few pages and I'm not sure if you had a chance to answer my earlier question.
My question was this. When LCM showed up at the lodge the days following the accident did he ask anyone at that table that morning how they were? I know you said he sat down with the guy who had been flown outta the truck and landed on his feet, but did LCM ask anyone there at that table...How is everyone? How is everyone feeling? How are you doing? Anything like that?
I think I know the answer to my questions just wanted to have it confirmed.
Thanks.
OOPs, forgot to mention this.
You talked about your lead appraisal and your clean thingy.
John Lynn called me in as well to talk about my lead appraisal.
He said, "This is the worse lead appraisal I have ever seen." Yup, I made LEAD Guinness Book of records...a feat not easily achieved! :D-->
HCW, soulmate tonto here...your Doctor Evil reference takes on a double meaning here at g'spot (Docvic).
As someone else already pointed out on this thread, there used to be big 'round the clock prayer sessions for classes. If the BOT were really concerned with the hearts and lives of those injured, they would have gotten the word out so we could be praying for them.
And you're right...those s.o.b. trustees had plenty of money to run a safe operation but out of greed chose not to.
On my appraisal I was accused of lying. I had no idea what they ment by this especially since it was never mentioned to me while I was at LEAD. The first I heard of it was when JAL read it to me.
I told him I had no clue what they were talking about. He didn't believe me. He believed them.
The lie was this...That I had told one of the coordinators that I needed to go pee, but that the real reason I had said this was because I just wanted to rest.
WHAT AN INSANE FACTORY THAT PLACE WAS!!!!!
TONTO,
OH, but we could pray around the clock when it was something regarding the BOTs and their health.
As far as standing up, talking back. People did that a lot, especially after POP. People got "mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!"
Of my personal pet peeves was the whole money thing. The "need based salary" was a thing of the past. We were long past the days when the ministry didn't have two nickles to rub together.
I for one, was VERY thankful to EVERY SINGLE BELIEVER who ever came to visit HQ. I spent my Sunday afternoons on call to conduct tours of the grounds and was HAPPY to spend any WHOLE afternoon showing guests around the whole grounds, Way Cultural Center in New Bremen, I'd tour people till they said, "No MAS!" (another refernece )
Whe the IRS came after TWI and threatened to, then TOOK the tax exempt status, my thinking was...
FINE. Let em have it! I'd say if I GOD can meet my needs, He'll meet the ministry needs too. The IRS can KISS us where the sun don't shine, as far as I'm concerned. Lots of folks felt that way too.
WE don't work there anymore. WE were purged. WE were marked and told AVOID them.
By comparison. I now attend and am very active in one of the largest, most active and progressive churches in the Dayton area. On an average weekend we bring in about $68,000.00 in tithes & offerings.
How do I know that? I read the weekly church bulletin the ushers hand out to EVERY person (other than kids) who walks into the sanctuary for one of the FOUR services we do each weekend.
It has an itemized section that tells us how much money was bugeted YTD for that week in categories; how much came in YTD for that week. EVERY person, even a visitor, stranger off the street who can read can see how much money we have, whether we are behind or ahead of budget.
Our "leadership," the senior pastor and the church board, addressed a problem the ministry was having with a traffic jam of people coming to & from each service. Somebody figured it would be a good idea to widen the end of our driveway and add a turn lane.
The called a special "members meeting" did a formal presentation and open mike discussion on the matter then we, the church members VOTED whether to do it or not. The vote was yes.
The people who own the land adjacent to the church at the end of the driveway were selling. We voted to basically empty the church's reserve cash fund and write a check for $250,000. to buy the property. We also VOTED to start a building fund to pay for the plans and cost to redo the driveway. I can see how the fund is doing every week when I come to church.
We ALSO have a yearly thing we do at the end of our fiscal year. We started it about 3 years ago and call it "Takin' it to the Streets." (Ye we use the Doobie Bros song...)
"You, Oh you; keep telling me the things you're gonna do for me... Well I aint blind and I don't like what I think I see ... Takin' it to the streets...." are the lyrics.
The board decided, since we had money left over at the end of our fiscal year (NON profit status, I might add) that we should take 20 THOUSAND DOOOLLARS and GIVE it AWAY. The first year the board members stood up at the front of the sanctuary and gave envelopes with $20.00 per adult, $10.00 per teen and $5.00 per child to anyone who went up there to get it.
The only stipulations were:
1. Use it to DO something for somebody in the community.
2. Fill out the card in the envelope and let us know what you did so we can "share" the blessings with our church family.
3. Tell whomever you give it to them that this is a small blessing from God that our church wanted you to have.
That first day we did that was one of the spiritually hottest days I've ever seen there. People really got jiggy with it. My family had $45.00. Some guy asked me on the street if I had a buck or two cause he was tryin to get to work. I said sure & gave him $40. The kids asked me if I they couls use their money to get the kids in the neighborhood some stuff from the icecream truck.
Now I'm the coolest Dad on the block.
This past year we switched up and gave $100 to each small group (our version of the twig). People were pooling their funds anyway we found out, sooo.... One small group I'm part of took out $100. and paid the $$$ to keep the girl next door to one of our members from having their utilities turned off. We threw in some extra and bought her a basket of some girly stuff. We also made sure we got her on the list to receive a "Thansgiving Basket" (last year we put together [from donations from out people] one THOUSAND 2 HUNDRED Thansgiving dinners, w/turkey & all the trimmings and fed 1200 FAMILIES who needed help).
My Karate class is classified as an official small group, as part of our outreach ministries. We took our $100 and decided to do an appreciation dinner and Karate demonstration for the local firefighters and paramedics that serve in the area our church is located in. We held it in our gym and used our big industrial kitchen to cook it & some kitchen staff helped, etc.
That only covers some of what we do from October to the end of November.
Did I mention that our gym is open Friday evenings for anyone who wants to come shoot some hoop? AND what about how we use our gym as a home court for some local home schooled girls' volleyabll team?
NO. they are not part of the "HOUSEHOLD" of our church. They are not all members of oour church. Heck, I met a guy & his daughter in the gym last night who doesn't even ATTEND our church. I think he said he was Russian Orthodox (whatever THAT is???).
Oh yeah. We have to do our STS FOUR times each weekend (one Saturday, three times in a row on Sunday morning) because our sanctuary, which seats as many as your "Prevailing Word(?) Auditorium can't fit THREE TIMES IT'S SEATING CAPACITY.
If Craig had shown a lot of concern for who was hurt and how much et al. I would have written about that in my journal. I was pretty impressed by the fact that Craig himself had come to get us with Ambassador One and I surely would have written some wayspeak about "how wonderful it was that the President of the Way would have taken so much of his precious time to shower us with so much of God's abundant love for us.
I didn't write that cause it just wasn't there.
On the bus to the airport, I mentioned to him. "You did that on purpose, right?" He knew I was talking about distracting us when we drove by the crash site. He just said, "It was probably for the best."
I was angry about that.
I think your point is well taken that in that case to focus should have overtly been on the victims of the crash. As Dr. Phil puts it, the whole world should have stopped and al focus should have turned to making SURE we were OK.
We were future leaders in God's ministry, is what they should have tough about according to their own retoric. We should have ALL who stopped everything and ALL went to visit each person who was in the hospital, and held some sort of prayer vigil right there.
I should have been obvious that that accident was a spiritual attack on the entire ministry. IF they actually believed their own propaganda.
BUT. History now tells us that Craig Martindale, at the time he sat across the table from me; the self appointed Man of God for the world saw me as a .... up. (excuse my language, emphasis supplied)
Think about it. I was sitting there eating granola with both my hips and one shoulder dislocated. My spine was almost six inches shorter than it was the day before when I got out of bed. I had nerve damage, soft tissue damage, etc. and I didn't even know it. I was so concerned about the screaming and crying I heard that I hardly considered how much I couls have been hurt even though I knew I had broken the windshield with my head.
He, who had stepped into the shoes of "The Teacher"... did he talk about great healings, battles, victories over the enemy of God's people in the Bible?
He talked about how principle being lived made people impressed with our campuses.
CRAIG, himself swept it under the rug.
We, who were in the accident, weren't thinking about liability. Not that I knew of. But then again, "not knowing of" has become the legacy of LEAD 104. Back then people didn't sue as much as they do today.
A few people told me I should sue to get enough money to be sure my medical was paid, at least, for the rest of my life. Actually, it was my las chiropractor, who p'shawed about the amount of $$$$$ the insurance settlement offered. He said I could have easily got much more.
I had no idea that day sitting w/ Craig how badly I was hurt. I probably STILL haven't fully grasped how much that took out of my life.
The real answer to your question Ala was right there in front of us all. I didn't fully grasp that until the other day when I was rereading the account of it from my journal to post it.
He didn't even eat breakfast with us.
We were having granola cereal and bananas with hot cider. He, after making sure he told us how his coming was "a special gesture from the Board of Trustees" rambled on about some stuff we really could give a rat's patootie about. How could we really care about the Kansas Board of Regent's when we had witnessed and been a part of our Corps FAMILY smashing into a WALL at about 45-50MPH!
He left us eating granola to eat a breakfast "so big it could choke a horse."
Dorothy Owens used to teach in Christian Ettiquette class...
"What you DO speaks so loud I can't hear what you SAY."
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HCW
As far as standing up, talking back. People did that a lot, especially after POP. People got "mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!" Of my personal pet peeves was the whole money thing. T
HAPe4me
I never participated in it, but I always thought it sounded like "Outward Bound", which has been measurably more successful in achieving it's participant's goals.
So_crates
Yes, but then there's the counter teaching: If you obey the MOG, God will bless you. So what do you do when the MOG orders you to act recklessly? Rhetorical question. SoCrates
simonzelotes
I don't think you could physically fit 15 people in the back of a Ford F-250,Jack...I think this thing was some military surplus vehicle that the way purchased and may have been originally a multi-use vehical...I've never seen it,but I would be kind of curious as to what type of truck it was...
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jackmm
I'm going by what was said by HCW on page one of the thread. He said it was a Ford PU. So that is what I based my thinking on.
Maybe he'll clarify that point later.
Jack
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Hope R.
I was just in the chat room talking about this thread. Another person said they were at HQ's and didn't know very much about what happened at the time of the accident. I talked to another old friend who had been also on staff at the time and she never even heard about it at all.
Now... if TWI was REALLY the "family of God"... if we were really in "the household"... wouldn't we have heard about it? Even if for no other reason than to pray for the people involved?
I know if anything happened to my sister - I'd sure as hell know about it! And I would do whatever was in my power to help and love and care for her to the best of my ability.
It just pi$$es me off that most of us - Corps or not - knew NOTHING about this accident. We used to have 24 hours of prayer for classes that were running for Gawd's sake...
My turn to GRRRrrrrrr....
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markomalley
Jackmm: Keep in mind that if you load a trailer with 3,000 pounds, you may only have a tongue weight of 300 pounds (depending upon whether it is a single axle or a double axle trailer and depending upon the length of the tongue and how the weight was distributed in the trailer).
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mj412
I did question them. The outcome of it I was shamed for thinking evil.
This idea of why didnt we "stand up to them" is insane in and of itself, the "them was us: which met me and of course God almighty His self.
who was any one in twi really?
and that is what it was all about who was who and the constant play for power and say so for the control of others.
it was a cult people got hurt.
a family member of mine fell in a loading dock between the truck and the dock he also compacted his disks , He landed on his feet and didn't feel any pain for about three weeks like you it was a progressive injury. today he is in a wheel chair unable to walk at all. He was 27 years old at the time. The company fought him for disability for over 5 years saying he was not as hurt as the DR. claimed.
Twi was a business filled with business men and women who had a bottom line which is always the same , the twist twi put on the whole mess was the name of Jesus christ met we were no longer allowed to be human. Much less children of an all Powerful God unless they approved of it first.
I have seen injuries such as yours and I would say God certainy helped you through much and kept his very hand of protection and love with you in spite of all the trouble and pain.
It is well documented brain injuries do cause personality changes and some times it is very drastic .. my sister had a small stroke and today she is so different I do not even know who she is her own children say she has a different personality, she is paranoid and frightened and unable to cope like she did beofre the blood loss, the suicide Of Rochele may be a direct medical consequence to the injury and the recovery of her brain organ and THEN to be dealt with in such a harsh manner!! It is enough to find hopelessness in life, such an injury takes years to recover from mentaly not to metion her brain was bruised and not functioning well enough to cope with the stress of being asked to leave.
WOW. I think this is an unlawful death crime . Charges could have been brought forth, a company is liable for injury when in their establishment as is a homeowner.. TWI must have had on heck of a release form saying you could be torn from limb to limb (sorry for the pun) but really be damaged or die and they would not accept the responsibility. or some one would have sued.. Now my question is this if it is all about believing God then what the hell was the crooked lawyer doing calling the shots for twi? hmm? yeah YOU just need to believe God we got our asses covered by the mighty dollar the insurance lawyer and twi lawyers charge to do their bidding in America.
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mj412
As far as being as Niave as I was then Satori. No I do not think so, but the idea of becoming bitter and full of rage to trusting others at their word of loving you and caring about you and wanting to be more of a good person for God is not NIave, it is being human and what makes the world a good place.
The only other option is to wake up everyday full of resentment and bitterness and thinking those you trust and love will hurt you, I chose not to live that way.
Call me what you will, but storys such as this one Prove the evilness and goodness of man. God is still on the throne working with all of us to see us through very difficult days. He was then and He is now.
A very close family member was involved in an accident in which the other driver died. It was an accident, no was was drunk or on drugs it was during the day it was an accident.. he was sued for unlawful death. (his insurance company and him) how can twi get away with this??? Come on they had how many in the back of a pick up truck? legal or not it is dangerous and stupid why didnt anyone sue?
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vickles
It seems if Rochelle's family knew this story they are the ones that could sue big time, huh?
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vickles
HCW, I think I missed it...but if you don't mind could you tell us how you talked them into you staying?
I went through something similar and tried but they said if I didn't leave on my own they would carry me out and the way it was said to me I believe they would have.
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vickles
HCW, this is so hard for me since I was in the 11th the first year. Rochelle was a friend of mine that year. I never knew until now about the accident or her suicide. I thought we just lost track through the years.
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HCW
About the truck...
I may be able to speak with some authority on some things, the truck is not one of them. I'm a city kid, an artist, a "white collar worker." Some people in the Corps used to tease me when we did those workin' in the woods days cause I'd come out with color cordinated "work" clothes.
Cracks me up. Sorry, this whole thread brings up lost of memories... Like, those of you whove been on LEAD will remember how, as the week went on people appearance would gradually decline and we'd become, quite the malodorus, dirty bunch.
People playfully hated on me when I showed up at our final campfire in a clean, matching outfit, smelling like Grey Flannel.
Donnie Smith was said that John Lynn and I were the only two people he ever saw go on LEAD and NOT get dirty!
Anyways... It was a big, white Ford. I know enough about trucks now to know it had an extended bed and heavy duty suspension. It sat way up un the air on at least 20" wheels with big fat heavy duty knobby tires. It was probaby a late 70's model.
You guy that know more about truck specs may be able to translate that into something more coherent. I'm not saying I don't know anything about vehicles, etc. I know a good bit. I'm just not a "Ford truck man" like the commercial says. I'm the guy who makes the commerical about the Ford truck man.
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HCW
oops. forgot to add.
I really don't think the truck was overloaded. It was big enough that the 13 people fit in the back easily. It was fifteen total w/ Kevin & I in the cab.
The trailer was built sturdy. They had taken a heavy duty truck axle and built a box on it. single axle.
Even though it was a well built trailer and all, I'd have to agree there was enough $$ in the TWI coffers to buy even a custom made transport vehicle. They could have furnished the entire LEAD program w/ "nothing but the best."
From my POV, there was this frugal attitude @ HQ that never changed once TWI got rich.
I may not know a whole lot about pickup trucks but I know enough about corporate finance to know that they could have assessed the needs at LEAD and purchased all of the best across the boad.
Way back in the day there wasn't enough money available to buy everything the ministry needed. Mrs. VPW would go to estate auctions, flea markets, etc. To get stuff like cabinets that were odd lots or overstocked items. Then Way builders would build counter-tops to fit the cabinets. That was how we originally furnished most of the offices in the OSC in 1979.
However, some who ran organizations in TWI were not corporately savvy enough to know to ASK for budget for their depts. I'm not shifting "blame" here, just calling it like I saw it. I'm hoping this illucidates the fact that Howard Allen was responsible for LEAD at the trustee level.
HA, in my opinion, turned from the old foundation of small business thinking. When money finally starts rolling in from the business, you funnel it back to the business to build the business so the business can function properly to grow to its critical mass.
I think they felt at the top that when the money started rolling in they could continue to run the ministry "on a shoestring and a prayer," attitude, being frugal and "careful" with capital expenditures. That "frugality" filled the coffers, legitimate ministry financial needs mere neglected. At least, indirectly, lives were lost.
It is this way NOW, more than ever. Anyone with any knowledge of business finance, or even balancing the family check book can tell you this:
When my two little "eatin' everything in sight" boys are not with me, I'm at least $25.00 richer that weekend because I don't have to feed them. ($25.00 = 1 trip to McDonalds, plus two days worth of snacks.) Not to mention, two days worth of clothing, water for bathing, soap, spatulas and scrubbing equipment
to get the dirt from them, shampoo, hair products, brush, 20% of my rent for the extra room I need to house them; divided by 30 - multiplied by 2, a portion of electric, heat to run the playstation and computer they play on, two video games, one movie rental; AND my time spent playing with them, yelling at them (don't BREAK your brother's ARM), plus an hour of mental anguish from telling them "NO, we CAN'T eat at McDonalds EVERY meal Every day!"
Then they say, "Ok Daddy... can we eat at Burger King then?
All that goes to say, SIMILAR amount of money means less hungry ministries eatin' it up.
Wanna challenge me on it? While we were suffering from our LEAD injuries. TWI was paying lawyers to fight the IRS for tax exempt status. It came out in the fallout fron POP that TWI ran up (make a loose fist with your right hand, stick out your pinky on that hand, put the pinky to the right corner of your mouth & repeat after me....)
"Oone MILLION DOOllars... humm, humm humm."
(catch that reference soulmates!)
Earl Burton also lost, in a stock investment... humm..."Oone MILLION DOOllars...
Coulda bought a truck.
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A la prochaine
HCW,
I've scrolled up and down these last few pages and I'm not sure if you had a chance to answer my earlier question.
My question was this. When LCM showed up at the lodge the days following the accident did he ask anyone at that table that morning how they were? I know you said he sat down with the guy who had been flown outta the truck and landed on his feet, but did LCM ask anyone there at that table...How is everyone? How is everyone feeling? How are you doing? Anything like that?
I think I know the answer to my questions just wanted to have it confirmed.
Thanks.
OOPs, forgot to mention this.
You talked about your lead appraisal and your clean thingy.
John Lynn called me in as well to talk about my lead appraisal.
He said, "This is the worse lead appraisal I have ever seen." Yup, I made LEAD Guinness Book of records...a feat not easily achieved!
:D-->
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tonto
HCW, soulmate tonto here...your Doctor Evil reference takes on a double meaning here at g'spot (Docvic).
As someone else already pointed out on this thread, there used to be big 'round the clock prayer sessions for classes. If the BOT were really concerned with the hearts and lives of those injured, they would have gotten the word out so we could be praying for them.
And you're right...those s.o.b. trustees had plenty of money to run a safe operation but out of greed chose not to.
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A la prochaine
I suppose I should just add this.
On my appraisal I was accused of lying. I had no idea what they ment by this especially since it was never mentioned to me while I was at LEAD. The first I heard of it was when JAL read it to me.
I told him I had no clue what they were talking about. He didn't believe me. He believed them.
The lie was this...That I had told one of the coordinators that I needed to go pee, but that the real reason I had said this was because I just wanted to rest.
WHAT AN INSANE FACTORY THAT PLACE WAS!!!!!
TONTO,
OH, but we could pray around the clock when it was something regarding the BOTs and their health.
I'm getting angrier by the post..
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HCW
As far as standing up, talking back. People did that a lot, especially after POP. People got "mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!"
Of my personal pet peeves was the whole money thing. The "need based salary" was a thing of the past. We were long past the days when the ministry didn't have two nickles to rub together.
I for one, was VERY thankful to EVERY SINGLE BELIEVER who ever came to visit HQ. I spent my Sunday afternoons on call to conduct tours of the grounds and was HAPPY to spend any WHOLE afternoon showing guests around the whole grounds, Way Cultural Center in New Bremen, I'd tour people till they said, "No MAS!" (another refernece
)
Whe the IRS came after TWI and threatened to, then TOOK the tax exempt status, my thinking was...
FINE. Let em have it! I'd say if I GOD can meet my needs, He'll meet the ministry needs too. The IRS can KISS us where the sun don't shine, as far as I'm concerned. Lots of folks felt that way too.
WE don't work there anymore. WE were purged. WE were marked and told AVOID them.
By comparison. I now attend and am very active in one of the largest, most active and progressive churches in the Dayton area. On an average weekend we bring in about $68,000.00 in tithes & offerings.
How do I know that? I read the weekly church bulletin the ushers hand out to EVERY person (other than kids) who walks into the sanctuary for one of the FOUR services we do each weekend.
It has an itemized section that tells us how much money was bugeted YTD for that week in categories; how much came in YTD for that week. EVERY person, even a visitor, stranger off the street who can read can see how much money we have, whether we are behind or ahead of budget.
Our "leadership," the senior pastor and the church board, addressed a problem the ministry was having with a traffic jam of people coming to & from each service. Somebody figured it would be a good idea to widen the end of our driveway and add a turn lane.
The called a special "members meeting" did a formal presentation and open mike discussion on the matter then we, the church members VOTED whether to do it or not. The vote was yes.
The people who own the land adjacent to the church at the end of the driveway were selling. We voted to basically empty the church's reserve cash fund and write a check for $250,000. to buy the property. We also VOTED to start a building fund to pay for the plans and cost to redo the driveway. I can see how the fund is doing every week when I come to church.
We ALSO have a yearly thing we do at the end of our fiscal year. We started it about 3 years ago and call it "Takin' it to the Streets." (Ye we use the Doobie Bros song...)
"You, Oh you; keep telling me the things you're gonna do for me... Well I aint blind and I don't like what I think I see ... Takin' it to the streets...." are the lyrics.
The board decided, since we had money left over at the end of our fiscal year (NON profit status, I might add) that we should take 20 THOUSAND DOOOLLARS and GIVE it AWAY. The first year the board members stood up at the front of the sanctuary and gave envelopes with $20.00 per adult, $10.00 per teen and $5.00 per child to anyone who went up there to get it.
The only stipulations were:
1. Use it to DO something for somebody in the community.
2. Fill out the card in the envelope and let us know what you did so we can "share" the blessings with our church family.
3. Tell whomever you give it to them that this is a small blessing from God that our church wanted you to have.
That first day we did that was one of the spiritually hottest days I've ever seen there. People really got jiggy with it. My family had $45.00. Some guy asked me on the street if I had a buck or two cause he was tryin to get to work. I said sure & gave him $40. The kids asked me if I they couls use their money to get the kids in the neighborhood some stuff from the icecream truck.
Now I'm the coolest Dad on the block.
This past year we switched up and gave $100 to each small group (our version of the twig). People were pooling their funds anyway we found out, sooo.... One small group I'm part of took out $100. and paid the $$$ to keep the girl next door to one of our members from having their utilities turned off. We threw in some extra and bought her a basket of some girly stuff. We also made sure we got her on the list to receive a "Thansgiving Basket" (last year we put together [from donations from out people] one THOUSAND 2 HUNDRED Thansgiving dinners, w/turkey & all the trimmings and fed 1200 FAMILIES who needed help).
My Karate class is classified as an official small group, as part of our outreach ministries. We took our $100 and decided to do an appreciation dinner and Karate demonstration for the local firefighters and paramedics that serve in the area our church is located in. We held it in our gym and used our big industrial kitchen to cook it & some kitchen staff helped, etc.
That only covers some of what we do from October to the end of November.
Did I mention that our gym is open Friday evenings for anyone who wants to come shoot some hoop? AND what about how we use our gym as a home court for some local home schooled girls' volleyabll team?
NO. they are not part of the "HOUSEHOLD" of our church. They are not all members of oour church. Heck, I met a guy & his daughter in the gym last night who doesn't even ATTEND our church. I think he said he was Russian Orthodox (whatever THAT is???).
Oh yeah. We have to do our STS FOUR times each weekend (one Saturday, three times in a row on Sunday morning) because our sanctuary, which seats as many as your "Prevailing Word(?) Auditorium can't fit THREE TIMES IT'S SEATING CAPACITY.
Catch my drift?
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washingtonweather
oha Ala-- dont feel bad...they say too everyone LOL
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HCW
You know Ala;
If Craig had shown a lot of concern for who was hurt and how much et al. I would have written about that in my journal. I was pretty impressed by the fact that Craig himself had come to get us with Ambassador One and I surely would have written some wayspeak about "how wonderful it was that the President of the Way would have taken so much of his precious time to shower us with so much of God's abundant love for us.
I didn't write that cause it just wasn't there.
On the bus to the airport, I mentioned to him. "You did that on purpose, right?" He knew I was talking about distracting us when we drove by the crash site. He just said, "It was probably for the best."
I was angry about that.
I think your point is well taken that in that case to focus should have overtly been on the victims of the crash. As Dr. Phil puts it, the whole world should have stopped and al focus should have turned to making SURE we were OK.
We were future leaders in God's ministry, is what they should have tough about according to their own retoric. We should have ALL who stopped everything and ALL went to visit each person who was in the hospital, and held some sort of prayer vigil right there.
I should have been obvious that that accident was a spiritual attack on the entire ministry. IF they actually believed their own propaganda.
BUT. History now tells us that Craig Martindale, at the time he sat across the table from me; the self appointed Man of God for the world saw me as a .... up. (excuse my language, emphasis supplied)
Think about it. I was sitting there eating granola with both my hips and one shoulder dislocated. My spine was almost six inches shorter than it was the day before when I got out of bed. I had nerve damage, soft tissue damage, etc. and I didn't even know it. I was so concerned about the screaming and crying I heard that I hardly considered how much I couls have been hurt even though I knew I had broken the windshield with my head.
He, who had stepped into the shoes of "The Teacher"... did he talk about great healings, battles, victories over the enemy of God's people in the Bible?
He talked about how principle being lived made people impressed with our campuses.
CRAIG, himself swept it under the rug.
We, who were in the accident, weren't thinking about liability. Not that I knew of. But then again, "not knowing of" has become the legacy of LEAD 104. Back then people didn't sue as much as they do today.
A few people told me I should sue to get enough money to be sure my medical was paid, at least, for the rest of my life. Actually, it was my las chiropractor, who p'shawed about the amount of $$$$$ the insurance settlement offered. He said I could have easily got much more.
I had no idea that day sitting w/ Craig how badly I was hurt. I probably STILL haven't fully grasped how much that took out of my life.
The real answer to your question Ala was right there in front of us all. I didn't fully grasp that until the other day when I was rereading the account of it from my journal to post it.
He didn't even eat breakfast with us.
We were having granola cereal and bananas with hot cider. He, after making sure he told us how his coming was "a special gesture from the Board of Trustees" rambled on about some stuff we really could give a rat's patootie about. How could we really care about the Kansas Board of Regent's when we had witnessed and been a part of our Corps FAMILY smashing into a WALL at about 45-50MPH!
He left us eating granola to eat a breakfast "so big it could choke a horse."
Dorothy Owens used to teach in Christian Ettiquette class...
"What you DO speaks so loud I can't hear what you SAY."
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HCW
Ala. I think you wanted to rest too. I also think, propably held your pee as long as you possibly could 'cause you didn't want to
PEE
outside
in the woods?
Man I held it for days! Especially #2. A good rock just wasn't my idea of a bathroom. I prefer a bidet!
I was like, if I say I have to go, I gotta GO!!!!
Hmmm. hiking a long way up hill in the woods, carrying a back pack? I wouldn't ever want to rest. No peeing either.
:)-->
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HCW
When they first showed me what a "good toilet rock" was I said, "Does it flush?"
Walking away they said, "No."
"It aint no toilet then....."
Maybe that wound up in mY evaluation.
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HCW
Hi Ho TONTO!!!
The classes brought in cash. Our injuries COST cash.
They prayed for the classes... Didn't even tell people about us & our injuries.
Things that make you go hmmmmm....
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houseisarockin
Isn't that the truth!
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jardinero
You little city slicker, Howard!
;)-->
...(and a rebel too)...(that makes you even more endearing)
:)-->
J.
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excathedra
a la, how did they know you wanted to rest and not pee pee ? did they follow you or get revelation ?
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houseisarockin
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