JAL is an A+ human being...I know for sure. God know none of us are perfect, but God knows hearts...
Wondering, you're entitled to your opinion, as am I. If you're a fan, you're a fan. Up close and personal, he has plenty of charisma and personal charm, I'll grant you.
Then again, what he is, and what he was, may be two different things.
But then again, circumstances may bring out the truth which is otherwise concealed. Didn't John Lynn do a teaching on the Greek word that meant "to pierce?" Maybe it was "to test by piercing." It might apply here. He was "tested" back then. When has he been tested lately?
On the one hand, remember, individuals behave differently as part of a group. Why else would hundreds of Corps sit sheep-faced on their butts when one of their own was unreasonably and even mercilessly "reemed" by just one little a-hole, be it Martindale, or Lynn, or the old bastard Wierwille, when they could have just as easily all stood up as one and stopped the evil? The group mindset creates passivity, even complacency, in the face of something most individuals might find highly unacceptable.
Did anyone ever stand up and say, "For God's sake, shut up John!... Shut up, Craig!... Shut up, Vic! Back up and get your lousy, storm-trooper boot off my brother's neck." It was rare, if ever. I don't know about it. The insufferable belligerance these a-holes showed to (God's) people whenever they got the "spiritual" hair up their butt was a disgrace - by any standard. Who did they think they were, Wondering? Have you ever wondered?
But on the other hand, being the leader of a group also brings out a different side of one's nature, for good or for evil. As I recall, John Lynn, when in control of things (and has he really ever held the reins since? I don't think so), was not a very nice specimen. He got them laughing, which gave him the rep as a fun guy, but not without a certain, trademark cruelty you may choose to disregard, or to forget. I have no reason to believe he's changed, unless I want to believe his own well-scripted professions of contrition.
Since I don't have anything to do with CES, and he is in a mostly harmless position now, I don't much care. But I haven't become more naive with age either. Have you? If he were transported back in time, back to Emporia, I think he could easily revert to old ways. His unwillingness to engage people here, with the exception of a canned statement, seems to substantiate that for me. Somehow, he's still the cool, aloof, distant JAL, though liberal with words of agape. Not for you, apparently. Fine.
quote:Did anyone ever stand up and say, "For God's sake, shut up John!... Shut up, Craig!... Shut up, Vic! Back up and get your lousy, storm-trooper boot off my brother's neck."
She ARGUED with Sal. She said she knew what "the Word said about those things, BUT. Those were Dr. Wierwille's ways and we just don't operate like that around here anymore."
"And then they cast him out"
Uh, hello, there it is, there is the ROOT of their whole freakin problem.
OK, Innies, you love God, you love his Word? Why are you still there? The person in charge came right out and said it, that their own agenda takes precedence over God's Word. They don't really believe it's God's Word or they wouldn't dare do that!
And they take your money, for what? You don't need them, you need God and God's Word, which you already have. And you ain't gettin the truth from them.
I'm speechless, HCW. I do want to thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I'm so sorry Bob Moynihan and Rob Kehoe accused you of lying. Weakness isn't allowed, so you must be lying. --> B.M. is still like that and his wife counseled women raped by our MOGs and continued to cover for them. She even lied about knowing what craig was up to.
quote: She ARGUED with Sal. She said she knew what "the Word said about those things, BUT. Those were Dr. Wierwille's ways and we just don't operate like that around here anymore."
So "The Word, The Word and Nothing But the Word" is just an empty phrase used to manipulate people. WAKE UP INNIES!! YOUR PRESIDENT WILLINGLY ADMITS THAT TWI DOES NOT OPERATE ACCORDING TO THE WORD!! SHE KICKS OUT THOSE WHO TRY TO HOLD HER TO THE STANDARD OF THE WORD!
HCW, although you and Sal were the first casualties of the blatant "purge," trust me when I say it started much earlier under Rosalie's regime as the head of Way Pub (and probably in Way Prod and U of L, though I'm not privy to what went on in those depts.).
If you didn't cowtow to the Fox's way of thinking and operating, she tried to coerce you into doing so. If you still didn't comply, she made things miserable enough for you that you couldn't possibly bear to stick around. Anyone who stood up to her was gone, one way or another.
Good people, including myself, were forced out in this way back in '85 and '86 after she took over our department.
I've mentioned this in other threads, but I think it bears repeating here, because it corroborates once again what HCW has said about RFR's disregard for the Word she claims so "passionately" to uphold and promote.
When she did my last annual staff evaluation before I quit my job in Way Pub, I expressed displeasure with the fact that so much of our time was eaten up by mandatory meetings, extra work, etc., that there was precious little time to actually sit down and read the Bible. Her response: "You don't need to read the Bible. You read Way Publications in your work all day."
That's the Fox in a nutshell as far as I'm concerned. Phony, religiosity personified, coated with sticky stuff that makes maple syrup smell like vinegar by comparison.
A fox is romping around in the hen house, and she doesn't care about the people in twi, about the Word of God, or about anything but maintaining her status and authority and comfy lifestyle.
What HCW and I are saying about her isn't second-hand knowledge or the rantings of "bitter" exfollowers. It's "just the facts, ma'am." Those who have stuck around and who still buy her superficially sweet image would do well to take heed.
The kind of control exercised over twi followers is not driven by love, no matter how many lovey-dovey and spiritual-sounding words accompany it
Linda, didn't she lie to Bob Moynihan to avoid a confrontation? Didn't Bob know she was lying and let it slide?
Michele DeLisle made a joke about her "guidance" on a STS once. I remember laughing and thinking it took guts for her to make a joke like that knowing that it would be obvious to those who know the fox and how she operates.
She has a son in prison, doesn't she? And another one who will have nothing to do with her? Yep, that's ruling well your own house, I say. -->
I finished and graduated w/ my 11th bros & sisters. That was SOO important to me. Especially in light of all I'd been through that year. Even if I was wrong about the losing my life thing if I left the campus (I mean, I could "feel it comin' in the air tonite, Hold on..." it was wierd), but I'd surely at least lost some of myself that being an area coordinator in residence with the 12th, I don't think could replace.
I just didn't NEED the top leadership spots in the Corps, for one thing. What I needed, desparately was to FINISH the course. I felt a real bond with my Corps. It was as simple ting to me. As stupid as it seems, seeing those guys at Corps Week with a different number on their nametag than mine was really unacceptable to me at the time.
I think I know why they felt I wasn't "ready" to graduate.
I also loved the whole LEAD thing. Had a great time, overall both times, all things considered. Dealing with my injuries from LEAD 104 has changed my life, FOR THE BETTER. Tell me, who knows pain & loss better? They say experience is the BEST teacher. Dealing with the everyday pain has added depth to my character than I am very thanful to GOD for. ALL things DO work together for good to ANY who loves God and is called according to his purpose.
I was also in LEAD 50. No catchy theme, that I remember, no spectacular, gut wrenching story. Just a few wild a$$ kids runnin' round the wilderness for a few days in the summer of 81.
What did happen though was that I got sick. I have a touch of asthma. The thinner air at altitude did a number on me and I lost a LOT of strength, etc. Couldn't breathe that well.
I was one of the hotshots they put on the #10 rated climbs. On one of the last days of Climbing I wasn't feeling well enough to climb. I just couldn't throw this tricky move to get started on this climb rated a 12 or someting. I tried & tried & tried & my strength went, went, & went. I knew I wasn't gonna be able to do it.
I did the unthinkable. I asked to come down. I admitted to myself that I was never gonna be able to make the climb, couldn't even get started w/ falling off. I could hardly breathe. It wasn't until I came BACK to Tinnie two years later and encountered the same thing, loss of strength, inability to BREATHE, immune system failure, hypothermia, etc. AND then left LEAD that LATER, when I talked to one of my FIVE Chiropractors about my health history AND the DR. asked me,
"How did you asthma do when you were way up there in altitude like that?"
Huh? I said.
Then the Dr. told me that thinner air at high altitude might effect me & sap my strength, effect my "performance."
Personally speaking, It was a thousand times HARDER for me, the varsity football playing, wrestler, martial artist, who could run like the wind jock a$$ guy to have to ASK...
"Can I come down?"
"What?"
"Come DOWN, I said."
Etc. I though LEAD was about building character. I felt it took more character for me to admit & face and deal with DEFEAT than it would to climb that rock. There was nothing about LEAD harder than the first day of conditioning drills for football, or even the average wrestling practice. If you think LEAD was crazy, try three-a-days during the heat of August in Pennsylvania. Our coaches would MAKE us sprint 100 yards with someone equal or a little heavier than you riding on your back!
They would run on our stomach's with CLEATS while we did "six inches" for 90 seconds. I would eat every other day during wrestling season to get my now 170+lb body down to 129lbs in order to go out on a mat with an ogre of a guy who wanted to tear my arms off!
We called wrestling FUN. A guy once tore my arm off, Literally pulled the thing right out of the socket. We popped it back in & finished the match.
Coming DOWN was infinately harder for me that going up. I'm thinking that made it on my LEAD evaluation and they "flagged me."
On my interim year as a WOW Family Coordinator two of my three WOW's wound up leaving the field. The other, "Vanman Dave" lived most of the year in his van! That made my "evaluations" I'm sure.
What didn't make the eval that year was how #1 WOW to leave the field came TO the WOW program with such deep seated emotional abuse problems he couldn't stand straight up. #2 Wow to leave was ex-military who literally believed I was a CIA plant in the WOW program assigned to watch him and at the right time, ASSASSINATE him in his sleep.
It didn't make my evaluation that I learned to literally sleep with one eye open.
Final year the LEAD accident. What Kevin said he needed to discuss with me was how there were "inconsistencies" on my evaluations. Some things were great, others were really bad, he said they wanted use the session to find out which was the "real" me.
We were TALKING when we wrecked, not being grossly irresponsible, calluosly irrreverent of people's lives in the back. Yeah he was holding the paper over the steering wheel but he DID have both hands on the wheel.
The wind DID pick up, SUDDENLY. The cross winds were rocking the truck. HE PUT THE PAPER DOWN so as to be able to hold the wheel more firmly without ripping the paper. Which he did scrunch a little holding on.
We were "20 something" year old KIDS then. WE WERE IRRESPONSIBLE BY DEFINITION. There was no BOT or anything like that in the truck that day. It was ME and KEVIN. We were YOUNG, daring enough and yes, irresponsible enough to aloow him to try to read a little bit while driving.
Youg as we were I believe Kevin was man enough to admit the part he played in that. I believe we both know it was NOT that LEAD 104 (GRRRRR........) accident that killed Rochelle. That's another story.
I'm taking the pit bull lawyer thing under advisement. fo sure.
Good question george. Easy answer. The spine when its "perfect" has 5 curves in it. Mine at its worst had only three. The difference in the 5 7/8' that was lost from compressing the discs between the vertebrae and the 3+ inches in actual height loss was made up by the fact that the middle curve of my spine actually straightened.
Even though the entire length of the spine was less losing the curve mad it span more distance because it fit about three inces straighter inside my body.
The loss of that curve (as seen from a side view) caused me to lean forward about six inches from "normal." It also leaned about four inces to my left.
I'm now about 5'8"
It confused me too at first. Especially since I'm an american ol' school inches guy kinda guy. When first told I didn't really have much concept of 100 millimeters. I picked up a pack of cigarettes, "100's." I almost flipped my lid when I realized HALF AGAIN AS LONG AS THAT????
Geez. Unbelievable. I saw the x-rays though.
While on the technical stuff. I read an article from the AMA once that listed 5000lbs/sq in. as the amount of force necessary to break a human femur, which is the strongest bone in the human body. The article said they used some sort of machine press to push down on femurs that were spanned between the two points of the press until they broke. Average was 5Klbs.
Article read, "We don't know how much it would take to break a live one, we couldn't get any volunteers for the test." LOL!!!!
I distinctly remember bouncing up and down on the bench type seat (no seat belt) and looking up out the windshield in slow motion and seeing a wall of dirt fill the screen, so to speak. Instinctively, I slammed my left hand. like a palm strike into the dashboard, and jammed my left knee at the same time into the dashboard and threw my right hand accross my face and kinda tucked to my left.
The femur took the brunt of the blow and held me somewhat in place while my spine stretched, who knows how far, out then sprung back and stuck in the position described above. It also dislocated my left hip 6mm and my left shoulder.
BTW. That part in PFAL about excruciating pain when something gets in a hip joint. Remember?
Its true, plaguarized or no. occasionally, if I turn the wrong way, my hip will separate just a tad for an instant. Its excruciating all right.
Belle asked: "Linda, didn't she lie to Bob Moynihan to avoid a confrontation? Didn't Bob know she was lying and let it slide?"
Yes to the first question, no to the second.
She did lie. I'd made it perfectly clear that I wanted to talk to her with Bob present because I wanted a witness to what both she and I said, and because he was the Trustee Cabinet member over her department. She agreed that she would meet with me with Bob there.
When the time rolled around for us to meet, Rosalie called me into her office and asked me to sit down. I (being able to count to three from an early age :D-->) noticed someone was missing and said, "Where's Bob?"
She said, "I don't think we need Bob for this, do we?" I said, "Yes, we do," and went to my desk and called Bob on the phone. She had told him that I was ok with just meeting with her, and that she and I had worked it out. So she lied to him, too.
I told Bob I wouldn't meet with her without him there, because it would be a waste of time and effort. I wanted him to hear what she said so she couldn't deny it later and so she couldn't misrepresent to him or anyone else what I said. He came down to her office immediately.
To Bob's credit, he did confront her for lying--vigorously. And when she tried to wriggle her way out of it, he didn't back down.
It made no difference. No matter how many times Bob and I both confronted her for lying to me to get me to take a Corps assignment in her department that I didn't really want, or for lying to avoid the meeting with bob, Rosalie refused to own up to it. All she kept saying was, "Ahm sorry if ah hurt your feelin's." I don't know how many times I said, "It's not about my feelings. It's about your lying and your manipulation of me and everyone else in this department."
In her mind, she had done no wrong, I'm sure. We knew better and she still wouldn't admit to anything more than hurting my feelings.
Heck, I wasn't hurt. I was ....ED. I was ....ed at RFR. I was ....ed at VPW for giving a person like that ANY authority over ANY of God's precious children.
I was also ....ed that she had hurt so many of my friends in the department. I was ....ed that some of my friends in Way Pub believed her snow-job and were deceived into thinking she was so spiritual because she dropped VP's name all the time.
This is the woman at the helm of The Way International. Not pretty, is it?
Belle, I just thought of what might have led you to think I'd said earlier that Bob had let her slide. A few years after this confrontation, when I asked him how he could stick around twi when someone like RFR was still allowed to continue her crap, and when I asked him if that didn't tell him anything about twi, he said, "Oh, it's just her personality" or something to that effect. That's when I knew he'd rationalized and bought the BS so he could live with himself in staying with twi.
But at the time of the incident, he definitely got what was going on and confronted her on it.
HCW, thank you so much for telling your story, and thank all you guys for your insite and observations. I think hearing details is part of the healing process for us "outies", and hopefully a wake-up call for you "innies".
By the way, your "wrote a song about it" reference was from a character on "In Living Color", right? :)-->
I was in 13th, remember the "event." Rochelle worked with my (then) wife in D.R. set-up. Thanks for sharing(ugh, that word still bugs me).
Maybe the attorney that handled the first lawsiut for Paul could give you the best advice. I would think he would know the ropes best having already swung in "that jungle."
I sincerely, DEEPLY hope that you will go after them.
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HCW
As far as standing up, talking back. People did that a lot, especially after POP. People got "mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!" Of my personal pet peeves was the whole money thing. T
HAPe4me
I never participated in it, but I always thought it sounded like "Outward Bound", which has been measurably more successful in achieving it's participant's goals.
So_crates
Yes, but then there's the counter teaching: If you obey the MOG, God will bless you. So what do you do when the MOG orders you to act recklessly? Rhetorical question. SoCrates
satori001
Wondering, you're entitled to your opinion, as am I. If you're a fan, you're a fan. Up close and personal, he has plenty of charisma and personal charm, I'll grant you.
Then again, what he is, and what he was, may be two different things.
But then again, circumstances may bring out the truth which is otherwise concealed. Didn't John Lynn do a teaching on the Greek word that meant "to pierce?" Maybe it was "to test by piercing." It might apply here. He was "tested" back then. When has he been tested lately?
On the one hand, remember, individuals behave differently as part of a group. Why else would hundreds of Corps sit sheep-faced on their butts when one of their own was unreasonably and even mercilessly "reemed" by just one little a-hole, be it Martindale, or Lynn, or the old bastard Wierwille, when they could have just as easily all stood up as one and stopped the evil? The group mindset creates passivity, even complacency, in the face of something most individuals might find highly unacceptable.
Did anyone ever stand up and say, "For God's sake, shut up John!... Shut up, Craig!... Shut up, Vic! Back up and get your lousy, storm-trooper boot off my brother's neck." It was rare, if ever. I don't know about it. The insufferable belligerance these a-holes showed to (God's) people whenever they got the "spiritual" hair up their butt was a disgrace - by any standard. Who did they think they were, Wondering? Have you ever wondered?
But on the other hand, being the leader of a group also brings out a different side of one's nature, for good or for evil. As I recall, John Lynn, when in control of things (and has he really ever held the reins since? I don't think so), was not a very nice specimen. He got them laughing, which gave him the rep as a fun guy, but not without a certain, trademark cruelty you may choose to disregard, or to forget. I have no reason to believe he's changed, unless I want to believe his own well-scripted professions of contrition.
Since I don't have anything to do with CES, and he is in a mostly harmless position now, I don't much care. But I haven't become more naive with age either. Have you? If he were transported back in time, back to Emporia, I think he could easily revert to old ways. His unwillingness to engage people here, with the exception of a canned statement, seems to substantiate that for me. Somehow, he's still the cool, aloof, distant JAL, though liberal with words of agape. Not for you, apparently. Fine.
We each have our opinions.
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excathedra
i love that term sheep-faced, satori !
true about how we behave in a group
that would have been lovely
i really like how you write
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outandabout
"And then they cast him out"
Uh, hello, there it is, there is the ROOT of their whole freakin problem.
OK, Innies, you love God, you love his Word? Why are you still there? The person in charge came right out and said it, that their own agenda takes precedence over God's Word. They don't really believe it's God's Word or they wouldn't dare do that!
And they take your money, for what? You don't need them, you need God and God's Word, which you already have. And you ain't gettin the truth from them.
Don't get me started.
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waterbuffalo
...yeah, I've been asking myself that same question...why didn't we?
Was it because we esteemed them better than ourselves?
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Belle
I'm speechless, HCW. I do want to thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I'm so sorry Bob Moynihan and Rob Kehoe accused you of lying. Weakness isn't allowed, so you must be lying.
--> B.M. is still like that and his wife counseled women raped by our MOGs and continued to cover for them. She even lied about knowing what craig was up to.
So "The Word, The Word and Nothing But the Word" is just an empty phrase used to manipulate people. WAKE UP INNIES!! YOUR PRESIDENT WILLINGLY ADMITS THAT TWI DOES NOT OPERATE ACCORDING TO THE WORD!! SHE KICKS OUT THOSE WHO TRY TO HOLD HER TO THE STANDARD OF THE WORD!
Thank you, HCW.
:)-->
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houseisarockin
Innies, if perhaps you don't believe these and many other accounts then ask to spend some time with her.
Her is the fox!
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excathedra
yeah does anyone shadow the fox ?
besides donna
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GeorgeStGeorge
Not a major point, of course, but this confuses me. 150 mm is almost six inches, but you lost less than four.
-->
George
(Not meant to imply that being compressed four inches is insignificant.)
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TheInvisibleDan
HCW -
I second Satori's advice: tell your story to a good, "pitbull" lawyer.
Danny
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Linda Z
HCW, although you and Sal were the first casualties of the blatant "purge," trust me when I say it started much earlier under Rosalie's regime as the head of Way Pub (and probably in Way Prod and U of L, though I'm not privy to what went on in those depts.).
If you didn't cowtow to the Fox's way of thinking and operating, she tried to coerce you into doing so. If you still didn't comply, she made things miserable enough for you that you couldn't possibly bear to stick around. Anyone who stood up to her was gone, one way or another.
Good people, including myself, were forced out in this way back in '85 and '86 after she took over our department.
I've mentioned this in other threads, but I think it bears repeating here, because it corroborates once again what HCW has said about RFR's disregard for the Word she claims so "passionately" to uphold and promote.
When she did my last annual staff evaluation before I quit my job in Way Pub, I expressed displeasure with the fact that so much of our time was eaten up by mandatory meetings, extra work, etc., that there was precious little time to actually sit down and read the Bible. Her response: "You don't need to read the Bible. You read Way Publications in your work all day."
That's the Fox in a nutshell as far as I'm concerned. Phony, religiosity personified, coated with sticky stuff that makes maple syrup smell like vinegar by comparison.
A fox is romping around in the hen house, and she doesn't care about the people in twi, about the Word of God, or about anything but maintaining her status and authority and comfy lifestyle.
What HCW and I are saying about her isn't second-hand knowledge or the rantings of "bitter" exfollowers. It's "just the facts, ma'am." Those who have stuck around and who still buy her superficially sweet image would do well to take heed.
The kind of control exercised over twi followers is not driven by love, no matter how many lovey-dovey and spiritual-sounding words accompany it
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Belle
Linda, didn't she lie to Bob Moynihan to avoid a confrontation? Didn't Bob know she was lying and let it slide?
Michele DeLisle made a joke about her "guidance" on a STS once. I remember laughing and thinking it took guts for her to make a joke like that knowing that it would be obvious to those who know the fox and how she operates.
She has a son in prison, doesn't she? And another one who will have nothing to do with her? Yep, that's ruling well your own house, I say.
-->
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excathedra
linda, you are absolutely right !
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HCW
That was supposed to be a SHORT lead in to...
No. I didn't go LOA.
I finished and graduated w/ my 11th bros & sisters. That was SOO important to me. Especially in light of all I'd been through that year. Even if I was wrong about the losing my life thing if I left the campus (I mean, I could "feel it comin' in the air tonite, Hold on..." it was wierd), but I'd surely at least lost some of myself that being an area coordinator in residence with the 12th, I don't think could replace.
I just didn't NEED the top leadership spots in the Corps, for one thing. What I needed, desparately was to FINISH the course. I felt a real bond with my Corps. It was as simple ting to me. As stupid as it seems, seeing those guys at Corps Week with a different number on their nametag than mine was really unacceptable to me at the time.
I think I know why they felt I wasn't "ready" to graduate.
I also loved the whole LEAD thing. Had a great time, overall both times, all things considered. Dealing with my injuries from LEAD 104 has changed my life, FOR THE BETTER. Tell me, who knows pain & loss better? They say experience is the BEST teacher. Dealing with the everyday pain has added depth to my character than I am very thanful to GOD for. ALL things DO work together for good to ANY who loves God and is called according to his purpose.
I was also in LEAD 50. No catchy theme, that I remember, no spectacular, gut wrenching story. Just a few wild a$$ kids runnin' round the wilderness for a few days in the summer of 81.
What did happen though was that I got sick. I have a touch of asthma. The thinner air at altitude did a number on me and I lost a LOT of strength, etc. Couldn't breathe that well.
I was one of the hotshots they put on the #10 rated climbs. On one of the last days of Climbing I wasn't feeling well enough to climb. I just couldn't throw this tricky move to get started on this climb rated a 12 or someting. I tried & tried & tried & my strength went, went, & went. I knew I wasn't gonna be able to do it.
I did the unthinkable. I asked to come down. I admitted to myself that I was never gonna be able to make the climb, couldn't even get started w/ falling off. I could hardly breathe. It wasn't until I came BACK to Tinnie two years later and encountered the same thing, loss of strength, inability to BREATHE, immune system failure, hypothermia, etc. AND then left LEAD that LATER, when I talked to one of my FIVE Chiropractors about my health history AND the DR. asked me,
"How did you asthma do when you were way up there in altitude like that?"
Huh? I said.
Then the Dr. told me that thinner air at high altitude might effect me & sap my strength, effect my "performance."
Personally speaking, It was a thousand times HARDER for me, the varsity football playing, wrestler, martial artist, who could run like the wind jock a$$ guy to have to ASK...
"Can I come down?"
"What?"
"Come DOWN, I said."
Etc. I though LEAD was about building character. I felt it took more character for me to admit & face and deal with DEFEAT than it would to climb that rock. There was nothing about LEAD harder than the first day of conditioning drills for football, or even the average wrestling practice. If you think LEAD was crazy, try three-a-days during the heat of August in Pennsylvania. Our coaches would MAKE us sprint 100 yards with someone equal or a little heavier than you riding on your back!
They would run on our stomach's with CLEATS while we did "six inches" for 90 seconds. I would eat every other day during wrestling season to get my now 170+lb body down to 129lbs in order to go out on a mat with an ogre of a guy who wanted to tear my arms off!
We called wrestling FUN. A guy once tore my arm off, Literally pulled the thing right out of the socket. We popped it back in & finished the match.
Coming DOWN was infinately harder for me that going up. I'm thinking that made it on my LEAD evaluation and they "flagged me."
On my interim year as a WOW Family Coordinator two of my three WOW's wound up leaving the field. The other, "Vanman Dave" lived most of the year in his van! That made my "evaluations" I'm sure.
What didn't make the eval that year was how #1 WOW to leave the field came TO the WOW program with such deep seated emotional abuse problems he couldn't stand straight up. #2 Wow to leave was ex-military who literally believed I was a CIA plant in the WOW program assigned to watch him and at the right time, ASSASSINATE him in his sleep.
It didn't make my evaluation that I learned to literally sleep with one eye open.
Final year the LEAD accident. What Kevin said he needed to discuss with me was how there were "inconsistencies" on my evaluations. Some things were great, others were really bad, he said they wanted use the session to find out which was the "real" me.
We were TALKING when we wrecked, not being grossly irresponsible, calluosly irrreverent of people's lives in the back. Yeah he was holding the paper over the steering wheel but he DID have both hands on the wheel.
The wind DID pick up, SUDDENLY. The cross winds were rocking the truck. HE PUT THE PAPER DOWN so as to be able to hold the wheel more firmly without ripping the paper. Which he did scrunch a little holding on.
We were "20 something" year old KIDS then. WE WERE IRRESPONSIBLE BY DEFINITION. There was no BOT or anything like that in the truck that day. It was ME and KEVIN. We were YOUNG, daring enough and yes, irresponsible enough to aloow him to try to read a little bit while driving.
Youg as we were I believe Kevin was man enough to admit the part he played in that. I believe we both know it was NOT that LEAD 104 (GRRRRR........) accident that killed Rochelle. That's another story.
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HCW
I'm taking the pit bull lawyer thing under advisement. fo sure.
Good question george. Easy answer. The spine when its "perfect" has 5 curves in it. Mine at its worst had only three. The difference in the 5 7/8' that was lost from compressing the discs between the vertebrae and the 3+ inches in actual height loss was made up by the fact that the middle curve of my spine actually straightened.
Even though the entire length of the spine was less losing the curve mad it span more distance because it fit about three inces straighter inside my body.
The loss of that curve (as seen from a side view) caused me to lean forward about six inches from "normal." It also leaned about four inces to my left.
I'm now about 5'8"
It confused me too at first. Especially since I'm an american ol' school inches guy kinda guy. When first told I didn't really have much concept of 100 millimeters. I picked up a pack of cigarettes, "100's." I almost flipped my lid when I realized HALF AGAIN AS LONG AS THAT????
Geez. Unbelievable. I saw the x-rays though.
While on the technical stuff. I read an article from the AMA once that listed 5000lbs/sq in. as the amount of force necessary to break a human femur, which is the strongest bone in the human body. The article said they used some sort of machine press to push down on femurs that were spanned between the two points of the press until they broke. Average was 5Klbs.
Article read, "We don't know how much it would take to break a live one, we couldn't get any volunteers for the test." LOL!!!!
I distinctly remember bouncing up and down on the bench type seat (no seat belt) and looking up out the windshield in slow motion and seeing a wall of dirt fill the screen, so to speak. Instinctively, I slammed my left hand. like a palm strike into the dashboard, and jammed my left knee at the same time into the dashboard and threw my right hand accross my face and kinda tucked to my left.
The femur took the brunt of the blow and held me somewhat in place while my spine stretched, who knows how far, out then sprung back and stuck in the position described above. It also dislocated my left hip 6mm and my left shoulder.
BTW. That part in PFAL about excruciating pain when something gets in a hip joint. Remember?
Its true, plaguarized or no. occasionally, if I turn the wrong way, my hip will separate just a tad for an instant. Its excruciating all right.
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satori001
Ouch!! It hurts just reading that.
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Linda Z
Belle asked: "Linda, didn't she lie to Bob Moynihan to avoid a confrontation? Didn't Bob know she was lying and let it slide?"
Yes to the first question, no to the second.
She did lie. I'd made it perfectly clear that I wanted to talk to her with Bob present because I wanted a witness to what both she and I said, and because he was the Trustee Cabinet member over her department. She agreed that she would meet with me with Bob there.
When the time rolled around for us to meet, Rosalie called me into her office and asked me to sit down. I (being able to count to three from an early age
:D-->) noticed someone was missing and said, "Where's Bob?"
She said, "I don't think we need Bob for this, do we?" I said, "Yes, we do," and went to my desk and called Bob on the phone. She had told him that I was ok with just meeting with her, and that she and I had worked it out. So she lied to him, too.
I told Bob I wouldn't meet with her without him there, because it would be a waste of time and effort. I wanted him to hear what she said so she couldn't deny it later and so she couldn't misrepresent to him or anyone else what I said. He came down to her office immediately.
To Bob's credit, he did confront her for lying--vigorously. And when she tried to wriggle her way out of it, he didn't back down.
It made no difference. No matter how many times Bob and I both confronted her for lying to me to get me to take a Corps assignment in her department that I didn't really want, or for lying to avoid the meeting with bob, Rosalie refused to own up to it. All she kept saying was, "Ahm sorry if ah hurt your feelin's." I don't know how many times I said, "It's not about my feelings. It's about your lying and your manipulation of me and everyone else in this department."
In her mind, she had done no wrong, I'm sure. We knew better and she still wouldn't admit to anything more than hurting my feelings.
Heck, I wasn't hurt. I was ....ED. I was ....ed at RFR. I was ....ed at VPW for giving a person like that ANY authority over ANY of God's precious children.
I was also ....ed that she had hurt so many of my friends in the department. I was ....ed that some of my friends in Way Pub believed her snow-job and were deceived into thinking she was so spiritual because she dropped VP's name all the time.
This is the woman at the helm of The Way International. Not pretty, is it?
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Linda Z
Belle, I just thought of what might have led you to think I'd said earlier that Bob had let her slide. A few years after this confrontation, when I asked him how he could stick around twi when someone like RFR was still allowed to continue her crap, and when I asked him if that didn't tell him anything about twi, he said, "Oh, it's just her personality" or something to that effect. That's when I knew he'd rationalized and bought the BS so he could live with himself in staying with twi.
But at the time of the incident, he definitely got what was going on and confronted her on it.
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tonto
HCW, thank you so much for telling your story, and thank all you guys for your insite and observations. I think hearing details is part of the healing process for us "outies", and hopefully a wake-up call for you "innies".
By the way, your "wrote a song about it" reference was from a character on "In Living Color", right?
:)-->
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Al Poole
Hey HCW !
I was in 13th, remember the "event." Rochelle worked with my (then) wife in D.R. set-up. Thanks for sharing(ugh, that word still bugs me).
Maybe the attorney that handled the first lawsiut for Paul could give you the best advice. I would think he would know the ropes best having already swung in "that jungle."
I sincerely, DEEPLY hope that you will go after them.
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HCW
TONTO!!!!
DING, !
DING, !
DING, !
DING, !
DING, You got it man. In Living Color is one of if not the BEST comedy shows in television history.
Coool.
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tonto
Yipeee!!! I win!!!
Whadda I win, gorp?
You're right, it was one of the coolest comedy shows ever. Two snaps up!
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Microbe
Dang - I wanted to be HCW's soulmate -
:)--> My son loved that show - does that count? How about Monty Python "Flying Circus"?
Honestly, thanks for this thread everyone. It has been ... ah mazing and eye-opening.
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excathedra
Al, who is Paul ?
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krys
PT Excathie
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