I really thought that this thread would be a short one, maybe a page or two or three. I'm kinda blown away at the response.
It was surprising to me that I needed to take yesterday to recoup. I wanted to write this stuff in a way that would help people connect with the experience.
What's happened is that this has become a sort of "In Memorial" kinda type thing not only for our friend Rochelle but for all of the "Rochelle's" out there.
I'm thinking we should "let it all hang out." Today I feel like a toilet must feel after a good flush, if you catch my drift.
Oldies, ok so we were probably taught that. We were taught a lot of things.
But did you ever get somewhere LATE and get totally reamed for it when the only way you could have gotten there was speed and "believe God" not to get a ticket or get into an accident?
And what was verbally said and what actually happend or what we were reproved for etc often conflicted.
And I do believe there was a general feeling that we were exempt from bad things happening. That's why we were put in harm's way so much.
No, I don't remember that particular teaching but I don't remember a lot of things.
But I'm still waiting for HCW to come back with "the rest of the story."
bless you heart, I know who you are. I was w/you in the 11th.
I was in LEAD #105 and we were already out there when the accident happened. My twig leader was Kevin's financee. I forget her name, but Kevin came by us and told her what had happened. She went off with him for a long time and when she came back we were told there had been an accident and to pray for everyone. That was it. I didn't know the severity of it because I was coming from Gunnison and returned there.
When I got back to Emporia I saw everyone's injuries. Rochelle was also my friend too. She was NEVER the same after the accident. I presume the head injury affected her more that just physically. There was a deep depression and emptiness surrounding her, like something left her heart. She was very hollow inside and I felt for her and everyone who was injured.
HCW - do you want to post about what happened to her?
was pretty solumn. Gl@nn Edm%nson was sitting across from me. He looked me right in the eye and said with his slightly southern accent,
"This will be a great victory for us."
I nodded. Hee reached out his hand & I took it with a firm 'CLAP' as our hands met. He took J@ne C*ssab@n's hand and I took my hitchin' partner Esth@r Cabr@rra's. We just held hands for a few seconds that seemed like 'forever.' We, together, felt a few moments of unity and "the peace of God." There wasn't a whole lot that could be said, we didn't say much. I felt that since I was in the center of the accident, that I should step up and "be there" for everybody else whether they were in the truck that wrecked or not.
When we got back to the lodge, "coincidentally," Art P@ling and Ell!e W!lson were there. They had some ministry related reason for being there, Art was head of Way Builders and Ell!e was deep into health and nutrition stuff. I figured why the were there had to have something to do with that but, didn't care. I was happy to see THEM of all people.
Art is a big, soft spoken, teddy bear kinda guy & Ell!e was a good friend. I'd spent a lot of time w/ Ell!e & husband J.Fr@d at their home in New Knoxville. It was comforting to see them in particular because I knew they wouldn't "beat us down" w/ "believing" BS like so many would do in situations like this.
Art gently but firmly took control of the entire situation. We went to work, doing miscellaneous things & stuff around the lodge. "Might as well" Art said, "Sittin' around here looking at each other helplessly isn't gonna help anybody."
We 11th, really felt we had to keep it together, for each other, for the 13th, and especially for our "walking wounded" and those in the hospitals. We prayed and went to work trying our best to be our normal, wild a$$ selves.
Anybody who knows the 11th knows we were a really roudy, racous bunch. We'd be LOUD, out of control (in a fun way) but pull it together when it mattered. It REALLY mattered now. We felt that we could give the finger to Satan by returning to how we really were, now in the midst of this tragedy.
I was working on a crew sanding the deck outside the lodge. We were singing and laughing and joking almost like we'd normally do but there was definitely a tension in the air.
I did say that the driver was primarily responsible. You choose to ignore that, just as you ignore all the contributing circumstances created by The Way Ministry management leading to a mentality where people took foolish risks because of the indoctrinated belief that "believing" (as defined in "The Bible Tells Me So," etc.) was a powerful magic, able to shape reality out of one's words, thoughts and imagination.
"Ye shall be as gods." Ring familiar?
This led Way management to make demands upon followers without empathy or conscience, placing all blame ("condemnation") for failure, and the occasional and inevitable tragedies in the wake of those demands on the heads of those obedient (and abysmally naive) followers.
The Way's doctrine of believing-magic also created a sense of invulnerability in many followers, especially those in the Corps, forced to "prove" their magical abilities to maintain their place and status within the "household."
That, oldiesman, is why The Way is and was a "cult," and why the cult's management is ultimately responsible, and culpable, for the accident, the injuries, and even Rochelle's death, and so much more that remains hidden from view in its sordid, secret history.
I don't expect you, or others like you, to get it. You have only one thing against The Way, in truth - they don't want you. You may even be using Greasespot as a way of proving your worthiness to be taken back into the fold, where I think you would be very comfortable again, despite everything you know about it.
quote: I did say that the driver was primarily responsible. You choose to ignore that, just as you ignore all the contributing circumstances created by The Way Ministry management leading to a mentality where people took foolish risks because of the indoctrinated belief that "believing" (as defined in "The Bible Tells Me So," etc.) was a powerful magic, able to shape reality out of one's words, thoughts and imagination.
"Ye shall be as gods." Ring familiar?
Satori, we learned in twi that believing doesn't cover reckless acts. Your spin is off the mark.
And I don't need to prove my worthiness...God has made me holy and without blame before Him in love.
Now those of us who want HCW to continue his story, uninterrupted, why don't you reprove Satori like you reprove me?
At one point I was sanding to the beat of whatever stupid song (we had a stupid blast singing those stupid songs in residence). We embraced them and made em sound as stupid as we could.
Anyways, I felt really weak, weaker and weaker as time passed. This wasn't more than an hour or so after the crash. ANd my sanding slowed, slower & slower & slower. I started feeling overwhelmed by responsibility. It hurt. My whole countenance wound down like a wind up toy slows.
I was fighting tears... losing. They would overflow my eyes and drip drop onto the deck. All of life started slowing down, the noise faded into a soft, slow amalgamated murmur. I watched the tears I could wipe away fast enough fall, all the way to the deck as if from a rooftop all the way to the ground.
Plop! They would splash, I could hear them hitting the deck, wiping my eyes, my face; sniffling. Pushing this stupid piece of sandpaper wrapped around this wood.
Gl@nn Edm#nson walked up & kneeled next to me. "Maybe you should lay down for a while man..." He said.
Laying down was the LAST thing I wanted to do. When I wasn't concentrating all those images; the blood puddles, the crying, et al. overwhelmed me. I didn't want to be by myself. My mind kept flashing back to the scene of the blood & the bodies strewn all over. I wouldn't go lay down, refused to.
After a little more sanding with an almost hapless amount of strength. Art P@ling "ordered" me to lay down. He went and found a place for me to go. When he came back I pushed back. I didn't want to GO. I didn't want to CRY. I wanted to keep it together and stay together w/ my Corps Brothers & sisters. I felt I HAD to! I felt THEY needed me. My mind kept telling me stuff like that.
Art insisted I go and lay down. "If they need you, you need to take some time for yourself, to get yourself put back together, so you can have some of yourself left over to give them." he said.
I excused myself from the work crew. Art extended his hand, helped to get up and walked with me to where I laid down.
oldiesman, that "teaching" was calculated lip-service for the benefit of critics. The Way's definition of reckless was this: risky behavior without the benefit of revelation.
But what was revelation? A still small voice. What was an inspired action? An impulse. And how often did we hear teachings about Daniel in the lion's den, Moses walking into the sea, and numerous other examples of behavior that wasn't just risky but insane, from a "natural man's" point of view?
And what is a "natural man" but one who understands the nature of creation? We were taught to disregard our senses, counting on God (enabled ONLY - if you can believe that - by our believing-magic) to change the rules for our benefit.
As I said, I don't expect you to get it. Insanity may afflict some of us, but sanity is still a choice for the rest of us. It is insane to deny the direct connection between a person's core beliefs and his subsequent choices and behavior.
I'm gonna post what happened to Rochelle. Another friend of ours spent some time yesterday filling me in on some gaps that I had in the rest of her story.
There's a chronological spot in the whole mix where it fits. I'll put it in there.
BTW. I remember when you LEAD 105 guys arrived. It felt, to me, a LOT like an old cowboy movie when the calvary rides over the mountain. GOD, it was great to see you guys.
Right now, though I gotta go. My youngest son is being honored at his school for perfect attendance and being on the Honor Roll. Actually, the Mayor of Dayton will be there too.
I remember this, I remember thinking we arent hearing all the story so we "could not think evil" ---being that my mind set was TWI distorted, but I later learned that it pretty much traumatized Kevin too, but being in TWI--one was not permitted to allow any trauma to surface and like many others in many situations had to bury it....such a healthy thing. Im not saying this to minimize RW...we were in the same corps too and LOA together.
ALL I AM SAYING is TWI minimized EVERYTHING that gave them anything but a sterile shiny image, cover up was and still is the name of the game with them.
Thank you for continuing your story. I've no doubt it must be bringing you a release not yet fully realized at this moment in time. Most here have been through some level of this and can appreciate what that would mean. As far as the arguing, well that's been going on since day one, so you're wise not to allow it to deter you.
Godspeed peace to your heart as you share things of great preciousness with us.
Did you and Kevin S. receive any medical attention immediately after the crash? Were you examined by medical personnel other than paramedics? Did you ever get counseling/therapy about this horrible experience after leaving TWI?
My heart goes out to you and your family, as do my prayers. Whether you realize it or not, they are living with this episode in your life in some ways, too.
Thank you for sharing the details of this event. My prayer is that you can in some way receive healing from telling all of this.
May the collective prayers of the compassionate souls who are reading this account be a catalyst for providing the healing you and other victims of this tragedy may still need.
Gosh, I know how you feel. When I first found this site, well waydale and then gs, I cried a lot. Believe it or not, it really helps. Most of my anger has gone too along with the grief.
I wondered also if you all were medically examined who were in the accident?
I was telling someone who was ON STAFF at the time this happened about this thread. I asked her what she knew about it. She said that she never heard about it at all - until I just told her.
I thought I'd get over being amazed at some of the things that happened in TWI - but now I think there's so much I didn't know about that - even after all these years - I'll still get shocked from time to time.
I was in the 13th Corps at Emporia when we were told about LEAD 104. Later, after Craig had come back from Tinnie, he came to Emporia and I clearly remember him saying over and over (like bragging) that the accident at Tinnie "demanded" the presence of a Trustee member (or perhaps members, I don't remember how many went), and that's why he/they flew out there. He bragged on the supportive camaraderie of HCW and the other folks who were staying at the LEAD lodge ... the way it was presented to us was not that they were weak (that was never mentioned), but rather that they had had a great session, and because of that, they were ready to handle the challenges set before them in the days following the accident.
No mention of any liability on anyone's part, of course.
As an aside, I was harshly reproved for not holding some sort of belay rope correctly (after being given about 10 seconds -- and that is no exaggeration -- of instruction in how to do it) ... if the person had fallen, they would have fallen to their death, I was told. The LEAD jerk who was yelling at me just assumed that I knew this stuff since I did not go LEAD until my last year in residence, six weeks before graduation.
It is a wonder that more people did not die because of the stupid things the Way had us do in the name of God. I DO believe God was protecting us, not because of our believing, but because we're His and He loves us. We survived IN SPITE OF The Way, not because of it.
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HCW
As far as standing up, talking back. People did that a lot, especially after POP. People got "mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!" Of my personal pet peeves was the whole money thing. T
HAPe4me
I never participated in it, but I always thought it sounded like "Outward Bound", which has been measurably more successful in achieving it's participant's goals.
So_crates
Yes, but then there's the counter teaching: If you obey the MOG, God will bless you. So what do you do when the MOG orders you to act recklessly? Rhetorical question. SoCrates
HCW
I really thought that this thread would be a short one, maybe a page or two or three. I'm kinda blown away at the response.
It was surprising to me that I needed to take yesterday to recoup. I wanted to write this stuff in a way that would help people connect with the experience.
What's happened is that this has become a sort of "In Memorial" kinda type thing not only for our friend Rochelle but for all of the "Rochelle's" out there.
I'm thinking we should "let it all hang out." Today I feel like a toilet must feel after a good flush, if you catch my drift.
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A la prochaine
HCW,
Welcome the the Healing House of Greasespot.
It's an amazing process isn't it once you start to unload. Healthy.
OM,
Will you please just stop for once. If you are so convinced that TWI was right and we're wrong go hang at their site for awhile. PLEEEEEEEEZE.
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outandabout
Oldies, ok so we were probably taught that. We were taught a lot of things.
But did you ever get somewhere LATE and get totally reamed for it when the only way you could have gotten there was speed and "believe God" not to get a ticket or get into an accident?
And what was verbally said and what actually happend or what we were reproved for etc often conflicted.
And I do believe there was a general feeling that we were exempt from bad things happening. That's why we were put in harm's way so much.
No, I don't remember that particular teaching but I don't remember a lot of things.
But I'm still waiting for HCW to come back with "the rest of the story."
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Steve!
om, why do you take it so personally when someone posts something that is anti-TWI? why do you take it upon yourself to defend them so vehemently?
Ummm, were you aware that this is an anti-TWI site?
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Zshot
HCW, Thank you for your posts.
If i may add...
If you enroll in a program, whoever that is running/administering the program is responsable for staff/students who are involved with the program.
At the time people were accepted into the wc program, the people who were in charge of the wc program are responsible.
If an accident and/or injury (or worse) occours due to policies and/or practices... IMO, they should be civilly if not crimmanaly liable.
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rascal
Please don`t use THIS thread as a chance to once again jump on your soap box oldies.
Please just this once, let someone tell their story as they intend, and memorialise their friend.
Start a new thread if you must, just please, for once, show some respect.
HCW, your account is riveting. I am so very sorry that your friend was hurt so greivously.
My husband knew her as well, and is deeply moved by your account.
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wondering
HCW,
bless you heart, I know who you are. I was w/you in the 11th.
I was in LEAD #105 and we were already out there when the accident happened. My twig leader was Kevin's financee. I forget her name, but Kevin came by us and told her what had happened. She went off with him for a long time and when she came back we were told there had been an accident and to pray for everyone. That was it. I didn't know the severity of it because I was coming from Gunnison and returned there.
When I got back to Emporia I saw everyone's injuries. Rochelle was also my friend too. She was NEVER the same after the accident. I presume the head injury affected her more that just physically. There was a deep depression and emptiness surrounding her, like something left her heart. She was very hollow inside and I felt for her and everyone who was injured.
HCW - do you want to post about what happened to her?
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oldiesman
For the folks who would like me to be quiet, sorry, I'm just as entitled as you to express my opinion.
Shall we all be quiet, and let the man tell his story?
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HCW
The ride in the truck
was pretty solumn. Gl@nn Edm%nson was sitting across from me. He looked me right in the eye and said with his slightly southern accent,
"This will be a great victory for us."
I nodded. Hee reached out his hand & I took it with a firm 'CLAP' as our hands met. He took J@ne C*ssab@n's hand and I took my hitchin' partner Esth@r Cabr@rra's. We just held hands for a few seconds that seemed like 'forever.' We, together, felt a few moments of unity and "the peace of God." There wasn't a whole lot that could be said, we didn't say much. I felt that since I was in the center of the accident, that I should step up and "be there" for everybody else whether they were in the truck that wrecked or not.
When we got back to the lodge, "coincidentally," Art P@ling and Ell!e W!lson were there. They had some ministry related reason for being there, Art was head of Way Builders and Ell!e was deep into health and nutrition stuff. I figured why the were there had to have something to do with that but, didn't care. I was happy to see THEM of all people.
Art is a big, soft spoken, teddy bear kinda guy & Ell!e was a good friend. I'd spent a lot of time w/ Ell!e & husband J.Fr@d at their home in New Knoxville. It was comforting to see them in particular because I knew they wouldn't "beat us down" w/ "believing" BS like so many would do in situations like this.
Art gently but firmly took control of the entire situation. We went to work, doing miscellaneous things & stuff around the lodge. "Might as well" Art said, "Sittin' around here looking at each other helplessly isn't gonna help anybody."
We 11th, really felt we had to keep it together, for each other, for the 13th, and especially for our "walking wounded" and those in the hospitals. We prayed and went to work trying our best to be our normal, wild a$$ selves.
Anybody who knows the 11th knows we were a really roudy, racous bunch. We'd be LOUD, out of control (in a fun way) but pull it together when it mattered. It REALLY mattered now. We felt that we could give the finger to Satan by returning to how we really were, now in the midst of this tragedy.
I was working on a crew sanding the deck outside the lodge. We were singing and laughing and joking almost like we'd normally do but there was definitely a tension in the air.
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satori001
oldiesman,
I did say that the driver was primarily responsible. You choose to ignore that, just as you ignore all the contributing circumstances created by The Way Ministry management leading to a mentality where people took foolish risks because of the indoctrinated belief that "believing" (as defined in "The Bible Tells Me So," etc.) was a powerful magic, able to shape reality out of one's words, thoughts and imagination.
"Ye shall be as gods." Ring familiar?
This led Way management to make demands upon followers without empathy or conscience, placing all blame ("condemnation") for failure, and the occasional and inevitable tragedies in the wake of those demands on the heads of those obedient (and abysmally naive) followers.
The Way's doctrine of believing-magic also created a sense of invulnerability in many followers, especially those in the Corps, forced to "prove" their magical abilities to maintain their place and status within the "household."
That, oldiesman, is why The Way is and was a "cult," and why the cult's management is ultimately responsible, and culpable, for the accident, the injuries, and even Rochelle's death, and so much more that remains hidden from view in its sordid, secret history.
I don't expect you, or others like you, to get it. You have only one thing against The Way, in truth - they don't want you. You may even be using Greasespot as a way of proving your worthiness to be taken back into the fold, where I think you would be very comfortable again, despite everything you know about it.
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oldiesman
And I don't need to prove my worthiness...God has made me holy and without blame before Him in love.
Now those of us who want HCW to continue his story, uninterrupted, why don't you reprove Satori like you reprove me?
I shant call you hypocrites, that'd be wrong.
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Steve!
In this case om is right, please leave this thread for HCW's story.
There is another thread to use to berate om for his two dimensional point of view.
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HCW
We were 'straight up' coping.
At one point I was sanding to the beat of whatever stupid song (we had a stupid blast singing those stupid songs in residence). We embraced them and made em sound as stupid as we could.
Anyways, I felt really weak, weaker and weaker as time passed. This wasn't more than an hour or so after the crash. ANd my sanding slowed, slower & slower & slower. I started feeling overwhelmed by responsibility. It hurt. My whole countenance wound down like a wind up toy slows.
I was fighting tears... losing. They would overflow my eyes and drip drop onto the deck. All of life started slowing down, the noise faded into a soft, slow amalgamated murmur. I watched the tears I could wipe away fast enough fall, all the way to the deck as if from a rooftop all the way to the ground.
Plop! They would splash, I could hear them hitting the deck, wiping my eyes, my face; sniffling. Pushing this stupid piece of sandpaper wrapped around this wood.
Gl@nn Edm#nson walked up & kneeled next to me. "Maybe you should lay down for a while man..." He said.
Laying down was the LAST thing I wanted to do. When I wasn't concentrating all those images; the blood puddles, the crying, et al. overwhelmed me. I didn't want to be by myself. My mind kept flashing back to the scene of the blood & the bodies strewn all over. I wouldn't go lay down, refused to.
After a little more sanding with an almost hapless amount of strength. Art P@ling "ordered" me to lay down. He went and found a place for me to go. When he came back I pushed back. I didn't want to GO. I didn't want to CRY. I wanted to keep it together and stay together w/ my Corps Brothers & sisters. I felt I HAD to! I felt THEY needed me. My mind kept telling me stuff like that.
Art insisted I go and lay down. "If they need you, you need to take some time for yourself, to get yourself put back together, so you can have some of yourself left over to give them." he said.
I excused myself from the work crew. Art extended his hand, helped to get up and walked with me to where I laid down.
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satori001
oldiesman, that "teaching" was calculated lip-service for the benefit of critics. The Way's definition of reckless was this: risky behavior without the benefit of revelation.
But what was revelation? A still small voice. What was an inspired action? An impulse. And how often did we hear teachings about Daniel in the lion's den, Moses walking into the sea, and numerous other examples of behavior that wasn't just risky but insane, from a "natural man's" point of view?
And what is a "natural man" but one who understands the nature of creation? We were taught to disregard our senses, counting on God (enabled ONLY - if you can believe that - by our believing-magic) to change the rules for our benefit.
As I said, I don't expect you to get it. Insanity may afflict some of us, but sanity is still a choice for the rest of us. It is insane to deny the direct connection between a person's core beliefs and his subsequent choices and behavior.
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satori001
OK, discussion ends here. Sorry for the interruption.
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HCW
Wondering.
Yes.
I'm gonna post what happened to Rochelle. Another friend of ours spent some time yesterday filling me in on some gaps that I had in the rest of her story.
There's a chronological spot in the whole mix where it fits. I'll put it in there.
BTW. I remember when you LEAD 105 guys arrived. It felt, to me, a LOT like an old cowboy movie when the calvary rides over the mountain. GOD, it was great to see you guys.
Right now, though I gotta go. My youngest son is being honored at his school for perfect attendance and being on the Honor Roll. Actually, the Mayor of Dayton will be there too.
Gotta go bye, see ya.
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DaddyHoundog
I remember this, I remember thinking we arent hearing all the story so we "could not think evil" ---being that my mind set was TWI distorted, but I later learned that it pretty much traumatized Kevin too, but being in TWI--one was not permitted to allow any trauma to surface and like many others in many situations had to bury it....such a healthy thing. Im not saying this to minimize RW...we were in the same corps too and LOA together.
ALL I AM SAYING is TWI minimized EVERYTHING that gave them anything but a sterile shiny image, cover up was and still is the name of the game with them.
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outandabout
I'm surprised that we heard about the accident at all, come to think of it.
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houseisarockin
HCW,
Thank you for continuing your story. I've no doubt it must be bringing you a release not yet fully realized at this moment in time. Most here have been through some level of this and can appreciate what that would mean. As far as the arguing, well that's been going on since day one, so you're wise not to allow it to deter you.
Godspeed peace to your heart as you share things of great preciousness with us.
Thank You!
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Scout Finch
HCW,
Did you and Kevin S. receive any medical attention immediately after the crash? Were you examined by medical personnel other than paramedics? Did you ever get counseling/therapy about this horrible experience after leaving TWI?
My heart goes out to you and your family, as do my prayers. Whether you realize it or not, they are living with this episode in your life in some ways, too.
Thank you for sharing the details of this event. My prayer is that you can in some way receive healing from telling all of this.
May the collective prayers of the compassionate souls who are reading this account be a catalyst for providing the healing you and other victims of this tragedy may still need.
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waterbuffalo
(((((HCW)))))
Gosh, I know how you feel. When I first found this site, well waydale and then gs, I cried a lot. Believe it or not, it really helps. Most of my anger has gone too along with the grief.
I wondered also if you all were medically examined who were in the accident?
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outandabout
It is incredible to me that you and others were sanding a deck after the accident.
So TWIish - act like something didn't happen, act like you can "overcome" it, rise above it, be victorious etc. Not a chance to react like humans.
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Hope R.
I was telling someone who was ON STAFF at the time this happened about this thread. I asked her what she knew about it. She said that she never heard about it at all - until I just told her.
I thought I'd get over being amazed at some of the things that happened in TWI - but now I think there's so much I didn't know about that - even after all these years - I'll still get shocked from time to time.
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ToadFriend
I was in the 13th Corps at Emporia when we were told about LEAD 104. Later, after Craig had come back from Tinnie, he came to Emporia and I clearly remember him saying over and over (like bragging) that the accident at Tinnie "demanded" the presence of a Trustee member (or perhaps members, I don't remember how many went), and that's why he/they flew out there. He bragged on the supportive camaraderie of HCW and the other folks who were staying at the LEAD lodge ... the way it was presented to us was not that they were weak (that was never mentioned), but rather that they had had a great session, and because of that, they were ready to handle the challenges set before them in the days following the accident.
No mention of any liability on anyone's part, of course.
As an aside, I was harshly reproved for not holding some sort of belay rope correctly (after being given about 10 seconds -- and that is no exaggeration -- of instruction in how to do it) ... if the person had fallen, they would have fallen to their death, I was told. The LEAD jerk who was yelling at me just assumed that I knew this stuff since I did not go LEAD until my last year in residence, six weeks before graduation.
It is a wonder that more people did not die because of the stupid things the Way had us do in the name of God. I DO believe God was protecting us, not because of our believing, but because we're His and He loves us. We survived IN SPITE OF The Way, not because of it.
ToadFriend
(who also does not like high places)
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