The L.E.A.D. accident. What happened?

[waysider]

It is a surprise and shock to those left behind but it was their decision, not mine nor anyone elses. IMHO, it is a trick to accept or cast blame onto the living survivors.

I don't see it as a question of whether or not the final decision was theirs.

The point is, outside forces may have contributed to their decisions.

In this case, the outside force was an irresponsibly dangerous program administered by the Way Ministry.

[Ham]

I personally didn't know about this particular lead accident, until over twenty years after it happened..

I didn't know about the guy loy drove to suicide, either.

I didn't know how der vey basically stole the Rh*ard home when they were summarily booted..

I didn't know about all the injuries sustained by partipants in various way programs either.

I didn't know about the serial sexual abuser in Alaska until years after the fact..

I didn't know the dancing pres was requiring females to submit to his sexual desires, on the "job site", as part of the condition of employment.. and that his personal secretary, one of his "favorites", worked to keep a supply of women coming his way..

Nor did I know about the vicster's "activities" in the motorcoach, which the upper ups were well aware of, until YEARS after the fact. Long after I left in 1996.

All that's just the tip of the iceberg. And I only found out about these "incidents", only after being out of the way for a few years.

If that's not a cover up, I don't know what defines one.

It was a system, with no, or little accountability..

I don't think their lack of candor was a matter of "that da dumb ministry be not blamed".. it was more like "that the abs might not turn lame"..

Edited April 12, 2008 by Ham

[Ham]

What else didn't I know..

the forced abortions, shoved down people's throats, paid for by MY abs..

ANY kind of lawsuits. Before Waydale.

Whether der vey was plaintiff, OR defendant..

that the vicster died of cancer, which he labelled as spirit possession, until years after I left the organization..

the rote plagiarism that the founder practiced..

what really happened to the people who disappeared in the night, and were labelled "possessed"..

that they put an incoherent, incapacitated corps volunteer on a BUS.. by himself, and sent him home in such a manner..

I think the organization wasn't being "personal" about covering up a mountain of this kind of stuff..

I think they are like other organizations like them.. "it's just BUSINESS.."

[now I see]

If it was hidden, you would not have known about it.

.

Wow, socal1, nice try at the Jedi Mind Trick....but sorry, it doesn't work here.

Your intentions here at Greasespot are clear to see.

while the suggestion from others is the action of busybodies. Maybe we should literally consider the appropriate

Disparaging the posters and readers here doesn't fly with us either...

I remember when a limb leader, in a moment of mindlessness with a staple gun, shot a staple into someone’s hand.

.

Neither does TWI hierarchy title dropping, who cares if a limb leader slightly injured someone, it pales in comparrison to someone dying, get raped, losing a toe to frostbite, it doesn't help your arguments against this thread and all of us posters.

I do not see the point of exacting a ‘pound of flesh’ from or for anyone....her brother whom I do not recall asking for inquiries, seeking restitution, or foment a public, or ‘bloggy’ action...while the suggestion from others is the action of busybodies....consider the appropriate term in this situation and have Rochelle and the whole matter ‘Rest In Peace’.

Your attempts to control what is said here and attempts to suppress the information and discussion on this thread also comes in loud and clear...hmm, sounds vaguely familiar...

I do not think there was an effort to suppress the facts and information regarding the accident since many people were involved

.

If there was no act to suppress it then, when it was fresh, why are you trying to suppress it now?  It clearly shows you have an axe to grind here, but why?  

You are pretty much stating here TWI was not blame, nor was the BOT by your defense of them, that they took the appropriate measures, that the lives of these victims who died, the rapes while hitching etc. were just collateral damage, chalk it up to "accidents" such as a little staple in the hand.  Hmm?

there were concerted actions taken to avoid repeat accidents by any TWI Staff. First of all, passengers were no longer placed into trailers or allowed to ride on the back of any TWI vehicle

If they hadn't cleaned up their act, they would have left themselves wide open to infinite litigation damage from any subsequent accident victim who could have won gigantically huge amounts from lawsuits against TWI on the basis of negligence since it was very clear from the LEAD accident TWI was grossly negligent on many things.  That could have cut into the huge cash draws, the toys, and lavish vacations doc vic, howard and the BOT indulged in.

We all experienced life growing up together in pleasant and unpleasant circumstances by our own volition.

.

Right, it's our own fault, it was Rochelle's fault, the girls who got rapedon the way to NM, it was their fault, the guy who was hit by the semi it was his fault, maybe his lack of believing, right?  Wasn't that the test, the hitch hiking?  Sure, blame the victim....Oh, but we're not supposed to talk about all of them now in honor of the victims and their families..right?  Sounds vaguely familiar too...where did I hear that before...hmm...I'll have to think about that onefor a while....hmmm...

I predicted there would be aspersions directed toward her brother for the perception he did not or would not take the position suggested by some on this thread

Speakey Dee Englace??? There were no aspersions slung by Sunesis, read it again without the paranoiac glasses on, she said he was devastated, and get a clue,  most all of us here were company men too at that time, that's what is called a fact, not a slight. We trusted TWi, we believed in twi.  How very smug of you to say that about her. Most of us here appreciate Sunesis for her insight and her perspective of her unique experiences with our TWI cult.

You invoking Rochelle's brother and family I find extreemly distasteful, a very low card to play, and utterly corrupt, seeing as he hasn't even stood with TWI since 1988, believe me, he is acquainted with the dark side of TWI.  But you don't have a clue about how he feels or what he wants in regard to his sister nor TWI, yet you act as his spokesman.  Nor were you a friend to Rochelle as Sunesis was.

it (suicide) was their decision, not mine nor anyone elses. IMHO, it is a trick to accept or cast blame onto the living survivors. There are a few on this thread who said they were close to her but still their actions did not prevent the outcome. Are they to blame for doing too little or too much?

.

I like how you contradict yourself again here too, on the one hand you advocate not blaming anyone but the victim for their suicide, but then you project a critcal inquiry toward the friends and blaming them at the end.  Nice try....still trying to blame the victim (and the friends) while deflecting culpability from TWI, huh?  Boy, you really drank the Kool-Aid and "mastered" it.  Your argumentative tones  sound so much like the Emporia JAL administration trainings.

If it was hidden, you would not have known about it. Too many people were involved to attempt such an effort. And you will never hear a official rebuttal.

So why try to suppress it now?   

Care to explain why there was never an official rebuttal?

You said, "it is not an issue to them, now. Most of the complaints regard actions of specific indivduals who doubtfully concern themselves with  this  site."

Sadly, this is true, TWI was, and always has been a cold, calculating, corporation, they have a job to do with a specific mission, where fleshy things of the heart and caring for people are not it's sweet spot.

Edited April 12, 2008 by but now I see

[Ron G.]

I have a question.

At the time of the LEAD accident, I was in Florida and quite active in TWI. I attended ALL the meetings, ate the cookies, drank the coffee and read all my Way mags and Grapevines faithfully.

How come I didn't know any of this stuff until I wandered into this thread the other night?

Both the local Baptist Church and the local Methodist Church both publish lists of people who need prayer and/or concern for whatever reason. Such an accident occuring within one of those churches would have been widely known so people who cared could pray, visit the hurt and comfort the injured.

Obviously, those churches are much more spiritually in tune with God's Heart, Word and Will than TWI ever could have been.

When will the TWI apologists and sycophants recognize this?

[alfakat]

But now I see and Ron G. --- AMEN, AMEN and AMEN.

Apologizing for TWI and their heartless actions and even more heartless inaction simply does not cut it, soCal. Their evil is now an open book, nuttin you can do to shut it once more.....

[Sunesis]

SoCal, you read into what I said. I am not casting "aspertions" on Rochelle's brother at all. Al was a wonderful person who I had only respect for and total compassion for the deep, horrendous pain he went through. I know because I was with him for part of it. He was heartbroken.

Obviously you didn't know her well, nor the circumstances, nor her suicidal tendencies which were known to the higher ups and her close friends. Shut up about what you don't know about. Quit guessing.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Twi lived in a pretend world...a world where they pretended that God was giving them instructions...that they had special insight that no one else had...

Anything that happened...that did not fit into this "perspective" was quickly swept under the rug.

It was all about maintaining this bogus image...at ANY cost. Looking back, I see no Christian ethics, compassion or desire to help others...it was all about them.

They cared nothing for those that they hurt...they still do not care.

[dmiller]

I have a question.

At the time of the LEAD accident, I was in Florida and quite active in TWI. I attended ALL the meetings, ate the cookies, drank the coffee and read all my Way mags and Grapevines faithfully.

How come I didn't know any of this stuff until I wandered into this thread the other night?

Both the local Baptist Church and the local Methodist Church both publish lists of people who need prayer and/or concern for whatever reason. Such an accident occuring within one of those churches would have been widely known so people who cared could pray, visit the hurt and comfort the injured.

Obviously, those churches are much more spiritually in tune with God's Heart, Word and Will than TWI ever could have been.

When will the TWI apologists and sycophants recognize this?

Won't happen Ron. I was active in twi then too, took L.E.A.D. several years after this accident,

AND FIRST HEARD OF IT HERE --- 20 (plus) years after the fact.

Ya gotta love (sarcasm dripping here) a *ministry* that won't care for *it's own*.

The Baptists and the Methodists you mentioned were MUCH more in tune than twi ever hoped to be.

Ya know -- my memory is kinda fuzzy these days --- but if I recollect correct (and I think I do) ---

THE ONLY TIME I RECALL PRAYER REQUESTED FROM THE BOT WAS FOR ONE OF THEIR OWN.

And --- they made dammmmm sure that request got out on SNS tape ### (whatever)

I guess they were too busy to mentiion the *rank and file* folks.

I never heard requests made for regular folks. Not on tape, not published, nothing at all.

Ya know --- now that this thread has been brought back up to the forefront ---

I'm gonna go back to my favorite (and legitimate) *rant* here about docvic and twi.

The *Law of Believing* (as promoted by twi, and taught by docvic) -----

was THE MOST INSIDIOUS TEACHING PROPOUNDED and foisted on all us unsuspecting folks.

It was up to US to *believe* to get rides, meals, etc. to do what THEY said we needed to do to

accomplish whatever *spirituality* they thought we (as individuals) should accomplish.

What I want to know -- is where the hell were THEY in their *believing* for their *flock*??

Prestige (such as it was), Money, and NO MISTAKES seems to permeate twi to the core.

They couldn't admit to *not believing for their own*. More interested in money,

and *good ratings* rather than admitting to a mistake.

The last time I looked at a Bible --- It said something about a Shepherd caring for his flock.

If the *Law of Believing* is so *immutable* --- How's come (sorry for the docvic-ism

they couldn't do the same for *Mah People --- or, *Class* -- or L.E.A.D. caualties???

I don't see the word *immutible* in the Bible. Nor do I see *Law of Believing*.

Nor --- (given the testimony here), do I see twi admitting to wrongs,

Their silence has been deafening.

[So_Cal1]

SoCal, you read into what I said. I am not casting "aspertions" on Rochelle's brother at all. Al was a wonderful person who I had only respect for and total compassion for the deep, horrendous pain he went through. I know because I was with him for part of it. He was heartbroken.

Obviously you didn't know her well, nor the circumstances, nor her suicidal tendencies which were known to the higher ups and her close friends. Shut up about what you don't know about. Quit guessing.

I apologize for misreading your post and understand your explanation. I only know for certain of Christ's return. Regarding the exhortation, probably not.

[So_Cal1]

See.

Thanks for reading and detailing my post. It is only my opinion based on my recall of events over 20 years ago. Control? In this venue? You must be jesting. Appreciate the input but respectfully disagree. Good day.

[WhiteDove]

Control? In this venue? You must be jesting.

[Oakspear]

Shut up about what you don't know about. Quit guessing.

Regarding the exhortation, probably not.

So does this mean you'll be talking about what you don't know about and guessing? Edited April 13, 2008 by Oakspear

[So_Cal1]

So does this mean you'll be talking about what you don't know about and guessing?

Your guess is as good as mine.

[waysider]

BUMP

Bumping this up for newcomers.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ic=4698&hl=

[leafytwiglet]

Sorry I usually try to read a whole thread but I am only up to Page 15 and that isn't even half way.

anyway no one will probably get this far but if you do and HWC

Thank you for sharing this. IT must have been very Hard . I lost a friend at work from an accident HE died and so much of the trauma you spoke of was what I myself and those of us there went through.

Thank you to for you sharing of scriptures.

Healing is such an elusive thing some times and it never comes quickly for those things most hurtful.

It WAS an accident.

I heard the briefest of information about this and only because I was out west.

Why weren't we praying round the clock for you all. These are the things about the ministry that make me the angriest. These blatant disregards for Gods flock.

My heart aches for Rochelle and for the obvious pain she went through.

NOT just for her but all of you.

My heart is aching right now... Maybe I will add more later. :(

[Tzaia]

I got through the whole thing - derail - ranting and railing - and all.

First of all - we were all pretty stupid back then. Young and invincible.

The only two people I ever knew who wouldn't let someone ride in the back of the pickup truck was my dad and my husband. We all did it. It was fun. I knew people who used lawn chairs as seating in their van. It was safer to sit on the floor, but safer still to ride in another vehicle. They never got why. As for TWI, we were all part of something we believed was bigger than us. Lesson learned - it was so big for some that some were actually devoured. That is a shame.

I am sort of confused about the timing of Rochelle's death. I don't have the same frame of reference so the time is not so clear. I can remember many of the Indiana LC, but without a year I have no idea who sent this young girl on her way. Could someone PM me and tell me who it was?

FWIW, our recent senior pastor used to be the youth pastor at our church. Under his watch, they did all sorts of crazy stuff that would never fly in today's world, and they did it under the watch of a presbytery that didn't think a thing of it. Thankfully, no one was seriously hurt, but a few bones were broken. We live with far more awareness of personal safety and just take more precautions.

TWI doesn't hold the playbook on stupid, and apparently lessons were learned. It was simply an unfortunate accident that no one knows for sure could have been avoided.

Head injuries and injuries in general are better understood now than back then. It was natural to shake off a head injury and keep a person in bed for months with a hip fracture. Now we understand the importance of resting a head injury to keep the swelling down. and getting a person moving who has fractured a hip.

Overall, I am simply amazed at the threshold of pain, deprivation, physical, and emotional abuse all of you corp people endured. I knew I didn't have it in me and didn't even try. Every time I read one of these accounts, I just feel overwhelmed with awe - really. There should be a tremendous sense of accomplishment for having pushed yourselves the way you did. It really is a shame that it was done mostly to satisfy the ego of a narcissistic sociopath, and his band of willing cohorts, but in all honesty you all did so very much with so very few resources. It is amazing. Each one of you was overworked, half starved, under appreciated, and never good enough - but you hung in there on the premise that it was for something greater than yourself. I honestly do believe that does count for something.

[Rejoice]

Each one of you was overworked, half starved, under appreciated, and never good enough - but you hung in there on the premise that it was for something greater than yourself. I honestly do believe that does count for something.

That statement is so clear. Thank you Tzaia for acknowledging their sacrifice for all the right reasons.

[leafytwiglet]

Okay I made it through last night. I read everything in here, the good, the bad, the ugly.

I am glad I read it all not just the story but some of the posts... What it showed me is the complete disdain that the Board of Directors (BOD) and Weirwille and Martindale and John Lynn had for the rest of us.

I can not tell you how sad and angry I am right now... How much I have come with this one post to despise them.

I am heartbroken that I was ever in the WAY.

I am sick that they took something that could have been so wonderful and so life changing for people and could have been so powerful and one used it to Rip peoples life blood out.

They took these beautiful hearts and stomped them to death.

I read John Lynn's letter when I first found my way to grease spot... but this is an indication of what is really in his heart.

Some people wondered how Rochelle would feel about this post.. I like to think that she would be delighted... Delighted that we really know now what happened to her! That we know the truth of how wrong "The Way Ministry" was and is.

(edited for spelling errors)

Edited January 1, 2009 by leafytwiglet

[calisprncess]

Does anyone know how and if the LEAD program was a "non-secular" program done by Tony Robbins? Thats what my dad said when I asked him about it, he went WOW and I dont know anything past he was involved in The Way for 17 years, he told me it was a voluntary and non secular program....that doesnt seem to be the case..?

[leafytwiglet]

I hope others come in and answer you better than me but I believe TWI ripped off a program that was popular in businesses and for troubled teens.. it was copied by TWI and of cousrse in Typical TWI fashion they took it up and over the top... I believe all Corps were required to participate at one time... In the beginning I think it was voluntary but that did not last long. as you can see by the thread here

also no it would not have been Tony Robbins He would have been a young teen at that time.

I am trying to dreg it up from the depths of my memory and it had a different name..(The original program) I just cant seem to remember it.

Edited to add by original program I mean the secular one TWI's program was always called L.E.A.D.

Edited December 8, 2009 by leafytwiglet

[waysider]

I think it was T.F.I.---Total Fitness Institute

[Rejoice]

I think it was T.F.I.---Total Fitness Institute

And...I think that program was run by Dr J*&n S---VP's son-in-law. It was a legitimate business outside of TWI.

[HAPe4me]

I never participated in it, but I always thought it sounded like "Outward Bound", which has been measurably more successful in achieving it's participant's goals.

Edited December 9, 2009 by HAPe4me

[leafytwiglet]

I never participated in it, but I always thought it sounded like "Outward Bound", which has been measurably more successful in achieving it's participant's goals.

Outward bound that was the original programs name

and it sounds like they copied it and renamed it Total Fitness Institute.

Outward Bound

I can't find a link for the other but I didn't hunt very hare either.

Edited December 9, 2009 by leafytwiglet