WB,I'm sure a police report was filed,and it would be difficult to cover up driver error in a one vehical crash...And the driver was employed by the way..But I agree,it was probably announced to as few people as possible to thwart any ideas that may lead to an internal investigation of the way's practices..and so the victims themselves wouldn't sue the way for negligence...
Thanks for taking the time to write about all this HCW. I know it's a lot of time and dredging up memories for you. I've never heard about this either and it's good for the truth to be known.
Also, your writing is excellent! I feel like I'm right there with you while I'm reading (but I am glad for the separate posts as I'm in Camp ADD with the others. :)--> )
geeeze, this is so unbelievable -- it's as if someone wrote a script, the ego, the foolhardyness, the complete and utter contempt for doing anything "the world" would do --- LIKE USE THEIR F-ING BRAINS.... it hurts me right now to think of how avoidable this was , if not for the whole hare-brained mindset of vp, lcm and the whole damn kork program. Redeemed Time Analysis, my a$$!!!!!!!!!!!
quote:...right, satori001, and it wasn't as if twi didn't have the $$ to enlarge the staff or to train them more thoroughly...
EXACTLY.
Ya see, the dumba$$ cheap Trustees should have gotten those dumba$$ Corps Coordinators and Lead Coordinators all together in one room, and hired enlarged staff and with that enlarged staff, told those dumba$$e$: hey fellas, when ya drivin' a truck, make damn sure ya have your two hands on the steering wheel, and your two eyes on the road!
But those damned Trustees didn't do that.
In fact, they shoulda realized something like this could happen, and conducted driving lessons too!
We've seen or experienced abuse of one kind or another from the organization. Somehow they used their manipulation of "facts" (the facts were what they said they were) plus the "lock box" perpetuated further abuse in all categories of everyone's life.
I thought I had shaken myself free from all the stuff I was holding onto...but this story - this is a whole other ball game.
The highest "leaderdang" had no regard for the people they used. Not for their hearts, wallets, private lives, and even their own lives.
It must be unspeakably painful to re-live all this while you write about it. I'm looking forward to hearing more as you recover from these first installments. Thank you!
quote:...right, satori001, and it wasn't as if twi didn't have the $$ to enlarge the staff or to train them more thoroughly...
EXACTLY. Ya see, the dumba$$ cheap Trustees should have gotten those dumba$$ Corps Coordinators and Lead Coordinators all together in one room, and hired enlarged staff and with that enlarged staff, told those dumba$$e$: hey fellas, when ya drivin' a truck, make damn sure ya have your two hands on the steering wheel, and your two eyes on the road! But those damned Trustees didn't do that. In fact, they shoulda realized something like this could happen, and conducted driving lessons too!
oldiesman, when you put employees under the pressure of time constraints, they may have to cut corners to deliver results on time. If you're talking about the BRC offices at Headquarters, where somebody might stumble over a stapler, that's one thing. But when you're talking about Way Builders, or LEAD, or any operation where safety is a critical consideration, then management MUST stress safety above all else.
What did TWI stress? "Believing," in other words, magic. And of course, results. Safety was only a factor of your believing. If you "believed" (practiced amateur magic), God would cover (because he loves amateur magicians).
WHAT is TWI renowned for saying any time a "believer" (amateur magician) gets sick or hurt. It's their BELIEVING, right oldiesman? They believed for disease or injury or death, just like old, dead of cancer Victor P. Wierwille, uh, or was that an attack-of-the-Adversary? - stay tuned for the "present truth" to be revealed, depending on what time it is.
You can say it's impossible for TWI management to take oversight to enforce safety standards and measures adequate for preventing every accident. But they did enforce those measures, selectively. You can bet Vic's bus and airplane were well inspected, and that sufficient TIME was allowed to do the job right.
But LEAD placed a big priority on the schedule. It was a matter of honor and pride (and believing, which is magic) to arrive at LEAD, and back, on TIME. And LEAD staff was a big part of that, getting the (spiritual) hitchhikers back on the road on time. Even if it meant reading evaluation forms, driving 50 mph in strong crosswinds with a trailer and a truck load of people. Is it stupid to do that? No, not if you're "believing" is there. You're covered, bro. You can do anything with believing (magic), and do it safely, even if it looks a little dangerous.
Why didn't HCW say, "Stop this thing, I'm not proceeding with the eval while you're driving?" Because he would have been questioning the driver's believing, that's why, and his own would be on the line. After all, he was part of LEAD 104, the losers' group. He would be giving in to fear (FALSE EVIDENCE APPEARING REAL), and that would be putting everyone at risk of losing their (magical) hedge of protection, giving the Adversary an opportunity to steal, kill and destroy.
So HCW didn't confess any negatives, like "slow this goddam truck down now, dammit." That would have been negative. Why? Because that's what TWI taught, and not only taught, but enforced with systematic intimidation. Being assigned to LEAD-for-Losers group 104 was part of TWI's ugly campaign of intimidation against its own followers, especially Corps (who in turn, turned it upon others). It just stinks of Martindale, to tell you the truth, it reeks of the stain and stench of "spiritual" humiliation, L. Craig Martindale's modus operandi.
If it had come down from TWI management that safety PRACTICE was a part of the culture and structure of LEAD (as it was on the rocks), the accident wouldn't have happened, at least, not the way it did. The LEAD culture was to teach RISK-taking as an element of "believing" (magic).
I guess you weren't really there, at TWI.
The sad part is, this tragedy probably confirmed The Way management's warped assessment of the LEAD 104 group. The losers couldn't even believe to prevent an accident.
quote:...right, satori001, and it wasn't as if twi didn't have the $$ to enlarge the staff or to train them more thoroughly...
EXACTLY.
Ya see, the dumba$$ cheap Trustees should have gotten those dumba$$ Corps Coordinators and Lead Coordinators all together in one room, and hired enlarged staff and with that enlarged staff, told those dumba$$e$: hey fellas, when ya drivin' a truck, make damn sure ya have your two hands on the steering wheel, and your two eyes on the road!
But those damned Trustees didn't do that.
In fact, they shoulda realized something like this could happen, and conducted driving lessons too!
well, they were the BOT, om ---it was their f-ing job, no?? They wanted the accolades but not the responsibility. Everything run on a frickin shoe-string...home-made trailer, my a$$...surprised the truck wasn't home-made, too.
Too cheap and tight-a$$ed to do things right, like the world....
satori, I just read your last post...spot-on, EXACTLY. anyone who spent time on staff knows NOTHING was too much for ole vp, but everybody else could make-do... a home-made trailer???? fer krap's sake, not lik e they could buy a real one...
Maybe this is another one of my dumb remarks, but here in Buckeye Land, having ONE person riding in the bed of a pickup truck is against the law. There were 15 or so folks in the back of that one, and they were towing a trailer? That's not only dumb, it's against the law in most states.
I knew about this accident but can't remember exactly why/how since I had just gotten into twi at the time when it happened. I'm thinking it was mentioned later at Emporia (84-85) for some reason relating to "training".
I distinctly remember hearing that there was a vehicle accident and that the blame fell squarely on the lack of believing of those involved.
To now hear that they grouped you together and labeled you "weak" is mind-blowing. In that case, wouldn't it be their negative-believing about you guys that caused this whole mess? Well, actually I guess it was... with the extended evaluations and all.
I heard TWI sold (or was trying to sell) the Tinnie, NM LEAD location years ago. Does the Corps training still involve anything like the old LEAD program at another location? I thought I had heard years ago that Karin Pen**l went on staff at Gunnison and was doing something like LEAD for the Corps in Colorado. Does anyone know anything about this?
On a trip to HQ, I was told to drive my car close enough to the leader's car that he could see me in his rear-view mirror. The guy was speeding like a demon down a road known for speed traps. So, it doesn't strike me as odd that one of us got stopped by a cop. It happened to be me. The cop was nice and just gave me a warning, but what did my leader say, "Your lack of believing is why you got stopped."
(no, dumb-a**, my being stupid enough to follow your orders while you broke the law is why I got stopped!)
This was typical both of leadership's attitudes, and follower's willingness to go against their better judgement.
quote:They weren't driving the truck, but their policies were driving the driver.
And one of their key policies to drive the driver was to force the L.E.A.D. evaluator to conduct the evaluation right in the middle of him driving the truck.
Maybe what I'm seeing here is that the way boldly made it known what they thought was God's specific will for our lives,then turned and ran when his "hedge of protection" failed us....
quote:They weren't driving the truck, but their policies were driving the driver.
And one of their key policies to drive the driver was to force the L.E.A.D. evaluator to conduct the evaluation right in the middle of him driving the truck.
Satori... dead-on post!!!
Yes, that's right oldiesman. You think it's absurd?
Way management mandated the extended evaluations (not for one or two participants, but ALL of them) be completed within the limited LEAD schedule time-frame rather than providing additional needed time.
The "naked emporor" here, which nobody wants to mention, is that the patented TWI magic (the so-called "keys to believing") doesn't WORK like a light switch. Believing doesn't "work" with any predictability, if it "works" at all. If believing had worked for Ministry management, they never would have needed LEAD to sort the winners from the losers.
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HCW
As far as standing up, talking back. People did that a lot, especially after POP. People got "mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!" Of my personal pet peeves was the whole money thing. T
HAPe4me
I never participated in it, but I always thought it sounded like "Outward Bound", which has been measurably more successful in achieving it's participant's goals.
So_crates
Yes, but then there's the counter teaching: If you obey the MOG, God will bless you. So what do you do when the MOG orders you to act recklessly? Rhetorical question. SoCrates
simonzelotes
WB,I'm sure a police report was filed,and it would be difficult to cover up driver error in a one vehical crash...And the driver was employed by the way..But I agree,it was probably announced to as few people as possible to thwart any ideas that may lead to an internal investigation of the way's practices..and so the victims themselves wouldn't sue the way for negligence...
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Belle
Thanks for taking the time to write about all this HCW. I know it's a lot of time and dredging up memories for you. I've never heard about this either and it's good for the truth to be known.
Also, your writing is excellent! I feel like I'm right there with you while I'm reading (but I am glad for the separate posts as I'm in Camp ADD with the others.
:)--> )
From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
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waterbuffalo
I'm guessing nothing was ever said about the driver reading and giving an evaluation while driving.
Am I correct about this HCW?
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Steve!
HCW, I'm surprised you weren't offered an ordination after you kept your mouth shut.
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alfakat
geeeze, this is so unbelievable -- it's as if someone wrote a script, the ego, the foolhardyness, the complete and utter contempt for doing anything "the world" would do --- LIKE USE THEIR F-ING BRAINS.... it hurts me right now to think of how avoidable this was , if not for the whole hare-brained mindset of vp, lcm and the whole damn kork program. Redeemed Time Analysis, my a$$!!!!!!!!!!!
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oldiesman
EXACTLY.
Ya see, the dumba$$ cheap Trustees should have gotten those dumba$$ Corps Coordinators and Lead Coordinators all together in one room, and hired enlarged staff and with that enlarged staff, told those dumba$$e$: hey fellas, when ya drivin' a truck, make damn sure ya have your two hands on the steering wheel, and your two eyes on the road!
But those damned Trustees didn't do that.
In fact, they shoulda realized something like this could happen, and conducted driving lessons too!
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krys
HCW I also thank you for presenting this.
We've seen or experienced abuse of one kind or another from the organization. Somehow they used their manipulation of "facts" (the facts were what they said they were) plus the "lock box" perpetuated further abuse in all categories of everyone's life.
I thought I had shaken myself free from all the stuff I was holding onto...but this story - this is a whole other ball game.
The highest "leaderdang" had no regard for the people they used. Not for their hearts, wallets, private lives, and even their own lives.
It must be unspeakably painful to re-live all this while you write about it. I'm looking forward to hearing more as you recover from these first installments. Thank you!
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Steve!
om, at least you are predictably consistent.
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satori001
oldiesman, when you put employees under the pressure of time constraints, they may have to cut corners to deliver results on time. If you're talking about the BRC offices at Headquarters, where somebody might stumble over a stapler, that's one thing. But when you're talking about Way Builders, or LEAD, or any operation where safety is a critical consideration, then management MUST stress safety above all else.
What did TWI stress? "Believing," in other words, magic. And of course, results. Safety was only a factor of your believing. If you "believed" (practiced amateur magic), God would cover (because he loves amateur magicians).
WHAT is TWI renowned for saying any time a "believer" (amateur magician) gets sick or hurt. It's their BELIEVING, right oldiesman? They believed for disease or injury or death, just like old, dead of cancer Victor P. Wierwille, uh, or was that an attack-of-the-Adversary? - stay tuned for the "present truth" to be revealed, depending on what time it is.
You can say it's impossible for TWI management to take oversight to enforce safety standards and measures adequate for preventing every accident. But they did enforce those measures, selectively. You can bet Vic's bus and airplane were well inspected, and that sufficient TIME was allowed to do the job right.
But LEAD placed a big priority on the schedule. It was a matter of honor and pride (and believing, which is magic) to arrive at LEAD, and back, on TIME. And LEAD staff was a big part of that, getting the (spiritual) hitchhikers back on the road on time. Even if it meant reading evaluation forms, driving 50 mph in strong crosswinds with a trailer and a truck load of people. Is it stupid to do that? No, not if you're "believing" is there. You're covered, bro. You can do anything with believing (magic), and do it safely, even if it looks a little dangerous.
Why didn't HCW say, "Stop this thing, I'm not proceeding with the eval while you're driving?" Because he would have been questioning the driver's believing, that's why, and his own would be on the line. After all, he was part of LEAD 104, the losers' group. He would be giving in to fear (FALSE EVIDENCE APPEARING REAL), and that would be putting everyone at risk of losing their (magical) hedge of protection, giving the Adversary an opportunity to steal, kill and destroy.
So HCW didn't confess any negatives, like "slow this goddam truck down now, dammit." That would have been negative. Why? Because that's what TWI taught, and not only taught, but enforced with systematic intimidation. Being assigned to LEAD-for-Losers group 104 was part of TWI's ugly campaign of intimidation against its own followers, especially Corps (who in turn, turned it upon others). It just stinks of Martindale, to tell you the truth, it reeks of the stain and stench of "spiritual" humiliation, L. Craig Martindale's modus operandi.
If it had come down from TWI management that safety PRACTICE was a part of the culture and structure of LEAD (as it was on the rocks), the accident wouldn't have happened, at least, not the way it did. The LEAD culture was to teach RISK-taking as an element of "believing" (magic).
I guess you weren't really there, at TWI.
The sad part is, this tragedy probably confirmed The Way management's warped assessment of the LEAD 104 group. The losers couldn't even believe to prevent an accident.
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alfakat
well, they were the BOT, om ---it was their f-ing job, no?? They wanted the accolades but not the responsibility. Everything run on a frickin shoe-string...home-made trailer, my a$$...surprised the truck wasn't home-made, too.
Too cheap and tight-a$$ed to do things right, like the world....
satori, I just read your last post...spot-on, EXACTLY. anyone who spent time on staff knows NOTHING was too much for ole vp, but everybody else could make-do... a home-made trailer???? fer krap's sake, not lik e they could buy a real one...
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Watered Garden
Maybe this is another one of my dumb remarks, but here in Buckeye Land, having ONE person riding in the bed of a pickup truck is against the law. There were 15 or so folks in the back of that one, and they were towing a trailer? That's not only dumb, it's against the law in most states.
WG
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oldiesman
Just blame the trustees.
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Steve!
I'm glad you agree.
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alfakat
well, we could say it was your fault, om....
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TheHighWay
Let me add my thanks, as well, HCW...
I knew about this accident but can't remember exactly why/how since I had just gotten into twi at the time when it happened. I'm thinking it was mentioned later at Emporia (84-85) for some reason relating to "training".
I distinctly remember hearing that there was a vehicle accident and that the blame fell squarely on the lack of believing of those involved.
To now hear that they grouped you together and labeled you "weak" is mind-blowing. In that case, wouldn't it be their negative-believing about you guys that caused this whole mess? Well, actually I guess it was... with the extended evaluations and all.
Keep posting. It is appreciated.
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TheHighWay
WG... back in '82 I don't think many (any?) states had laws about riding in the back of trucks. People and dogs did it all the time.
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Scout Finch
I heard TWI sold (or was trying to sell) the Tinnie, NM LEAD location years ago. Does the Corps training still involve anything like the old LEAD program at another location? I thought I had heard years ago that Karin Pen**l went on staff at Gunnison and was doing something like LEAD for the Corps in Colorado. Does anyone know anything about this?
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oldiesman
HCW, a friendly reminder,
Please keep posting...
:)-->
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TheHighWay
Scout... they suspended LEAD during the fog years (late 80s) and sold Tinnie, but picked it back up again with Ed & Jacque H****Y at Gunnison.
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satori001
They, and other Way executives overseeing the Corps and LEAD programs, are most definitely responsible.
They weren't driving the truck, but their policies were driving the driver.
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TheHighWay
Satori... dead-on post!!!
On a trip to HQ, I was told to drive my car close enough to the leader's car that he could see me in his rear-view mirror. The guy was speeding like a demon down a road known for speed traps. So, it doesn't strike me as odd that one of us got stopped by a cop. It happened to be me. The cop was nice and just gave me a warning, but what did my leader say, "Your lack of believing is why you got stopped."
(no, dumb-a**, my being stupid enough to follow your orders while you broke the law is why I got stopped!)
This was typical both of leadership's attitudes, and follower's willingness to go against their better judgement.
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oldiesman
Satori... dead-on post!!!
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simonzelotes
Maybe what I'm seeing here is that the way boldly made it known what they thought was God's specific will for our lives,then turned and ran when his "hedge of protection" failed us....
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satori001
Yes, that's right oldiesman. You think it's absurd?
Way management mandated the extended evaluations (not for one or two participants, but ALL of them) be completed within the limited LEAD schedule time-frame rather than providing additional needed time.
The "naked emporor" here, which nobody wants to mention, is that the patented TWI magic (the so-called "keys to believing") doesn't WORK like a light switch. Believing doesn't "work" with any predictability, if it "works" at all. If believing had worked for Ministry management, they never would have needed LEAD to sort the winners from the losers.
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