The L.E.A.D. accident. What happened?

[Jim]

As far as I can remember, LEAD and TFI were two separate TWI programs. Outward Bound was a non-TWI secular program that predated both of them. TFI was run by John Somerville, here's a GreaseSpot thread on it..

As to LEAD, I don't know. Didn't do it, didn't know any of the LEADers.

[dmiller]

As far as I can remember, LEAD and TFI were two separate TWI programs. Outward Bound was a non-TWI secular program that predated both of them. TFI was run by John Somerville, here's a GreaseSpot thread on it..

http://www.greasespo...04entry406204

As to LEAD, I don't know. Didn't do it, didn't know any of the LEADers.

When I first got into twi, TFI (Total Fitness Institute) was going on, but "winding down" as the L.E.A.D program was taking it's place.

TFI (from what I recollect) was more about doing an outdoor camping/ hiking/ etc./ experience. i could be wrong about this.

L.E.A.D. was some of that, but (imo) it also added the hitch-hiking to the destination on top of the week in the woods.

Seems (from what I know from corps folks), there was more emphasis put on that aspect of it, than the actual experience.

I took L.E.A.D. in 1985 and while we were there "out on the field" a uniformed Park Ranger with a six shooter on his hip (we were in the Black Hills of South Dakota), came out to look for whomever was in charge of our group of believers out there climbing rocks and doing some rappelling. Seems the Park HQ there in the Black Hills State Park had received an urgent phone call from HQ in New Knoxville that we (the L.E.A.D folks) needed to know that docvic had drank his last drambui, and had drawn his last breath. Our session there was cut short by several days (we'd all paid for a full week, and got gyped out of at least two days), because docvic didn't "have the believing" to live for a few more days and let us get our money's worth.

Sure - - - I'm being facetious here, and if I recollect correct, I've already mentioned this on this thread, but I'm not gonna go and search for my earlier posts on this topic. But talking about that, reminds me that I want to talk about this:

When I went into the L.E.A.D. program, it was because I wanted to. I was never Corps, and the L.E.A.D. program was offered for those who wanted to take it (i.e. - - - - read JOE BELIEVER). Well - - - some of you you might be familiar with Chris Granlich. He was the "area leader" at the time, and he was MOST INSISTENT that we (the branch of Duluth, MN) all hitchhike out to the Black Hills in accordance with the corps (way of doing things). Even though I was living in the same house he was (at the time - - - a Wow-Vet home), I basically told him he could take a flying **** at a - - - ahhhh nemmermind. The site would delete what I told him.

Regardless - - - I ended up driving out there, and had a great time. These many years later, I'm thinking that twi put more emphasis on the "getting there" than they did the actual experience of climbing on some rocks, and then rappelling back down. As usual, just my imo. but since I was there, and these are experiences I went through I think it's a valid imo.

Edited December 9, 2009 by dmiller

[dmiller]

Oh geez - - - I forgot to mention. On my way back from the Black Hills of South Dakota, I saw 3 of the folks who had been in the L.E.A.D. "adventure" (all from my home town here), with their thumbs out, there on the highway. I pulled over to see what was up. They were "trying to exercise" believing to get a ride back home (about 1 mile or so from my house). I waited about two minutes after offering them a ride, before they all started loading their luggage into the car for a trip back home. with "no worries". :)

Hey - - - Geo, if you're reading this, the three folks were Steve/ Jeanie/ and Elsa. Them were the days, eh??!!

(edited for spelling).

Edited December 9, 2009 by dmiller

[excathedra]

you're so valid, d.

love, ex

[Broken Arrow]

I believe L.E.A.D. was started by a non-corps married couple named Sk!p & 3llen W00ds. I'm not sure what their qualifications were. I think there was something called LEAD before that (not TFI) but it was different. The Woods never made it through the academic year as I recall and D0ug McMuIIen headed it up. That would have been '80/'81. It was never revealed why the Woods left so abruptly.

TFI was run by VP's son-in-law who was also an officer in the Marines with combat experience, or so we were told. I didn't get the impression that VP and he saw eye-to-eye on a lot of things. Someone like HWC would probably be better able to speak to that. By the time the 11th Corps went into residence, LEAD was a requirement including the hitch-hiking. On a couple of occasions people were arrested and jailed as hitching was illegal in Kansas. People had to be bailed out of jail and still make it to Tinney within the original 36 hour timetable. Hey, it was what the "Man of God" wanted so it had to be right regardless of the law of the land. The hitchhiking was supposed to be for in-residence Corps only. The guy who coerced his branch to hitch to LEAD was out of line even by TWI standards.

[gerry]

I feel like I'm "piling on" here, but I wanted to express my thanks to HCW for sharing his account of what happened.

As "just a twigger," we never heard anything at all about anything negative that ever happened in twi. Maybe that's just how they kept us all in line. :-)

Glad to get re-acquainted with some of you. I didn't know GreaseSpot was over here after WayDale shut down.

gerry

(aka artios48)

[excathedra]

awwww gerry it's been a long time since waydale welcome back nice to see you

i was on waydale

love,ex

[So_crates]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Because he was pressured to get it all done in a certain amount of time, because we were taught we were invulnerable, that we could do dangerous things and God would protect us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Outandabout, I distinctly remember being taught the opposite. We learned that believing doesn't cover reckless acts. Remember that? Remember Athletes of the Spirit when Craig went over that? That's in the category of "tempting fate" or "tempting God". God doesn't cover your recklessness. Like going 90 mph in a 60mph speed zone and "believing" not to get a ticket. Doesn't work. THAT'S what we learned in twi. And apparently it's true, cause when we do reckless things, bad things happen.

Yes, but then there's the counter teaching: If you obey the MOG, God will bless you. So what do you do when the MOG orders you to act recklessly? Rhetorical question.

SoCrates

[waysider]

Time for a *bump*

Edited July 31, 2012 by waysider

[WordWolf]

For those who'd want to read it with less discussion,

HCW redid the account in "MyStory", with the same name

for the new thread.

[waysider]

Thanks, WW, I didn't know about that.

(Or maybe I just forgot.)

[WordWolf]

There's a LOT we've discussed.

I CAN remember some of it, which is why I find it and link.

Others contribute in ways I can't.

BTW, we discussed the more general subject in the

"Foolhardy behavior" thread.

I think there might be yet ANOTHER thread more directly related,

but I haven't found it yet.

[dabobbada]

For those who'd want to read it with less discussion,

HCW redid the account in "MyStory", with the same name

for the new thread.

A great and terrible read. :(

About 15 years ago, I was driving the company truck full of newly painted product on state road 14, a four lane divided highway, between Ann arbor and Detroit. I was passed by a late model Chevy dually six passenger pulling one of those big long black covered trailers like landscapers like to use. Traffic was heavy and he was snaking in and out trying to get ahead. Something troubled me and I kept an eye on it.

As it got about one third mile ahead, I realized by the trailer sway that his load was off balance. Shortly after, the trailer started major sways left and right then left again, hit the dirt in the median at a 45% angle, then flipped 40 feet into air, rolled about five times (Still attached to the truck which spun with it.) and landed in a great pile of dust and paper upside down in the median.

Traffic slowed to a snails pace so the everyone could get eyes full. When I caught up, the two in the truck were out and inspecting the mess. Surprisingly they looked ok. Other than a jet trainer crash, it was the most amazing accident I ever saw.

This is not to take away from what those lead people experienced, but to show what can happen with an unbalanced load combined with driving too fast with possibly also poor quality roads added in.

My dad was born and raised on a farm back in the day when the tractors ate oats and freely aided in helping to fertilize the field you were plowing. He was a farmer at heart and should have stayed there. Living in town we would have at 1/2 an acre in gardens here and about. Also he tilled many gardens around town for extra income.

His trailer like the LEAD one, was made car parts. Dad's was from a '48 Ford rear axle, the driveshaft went to the hitch, and the body was made from 2" by 12" by 8 foot pieces of lumber.

As we approached driving age, dad trained us about using a trailer,about remembering how the trailer traveled inside our turning arc and all the things we needed to do when backing up.

There were important rules about loading a trailer to, they were:

- Always load the trailer about 10% front heavy.

- Do not overload the the front too heavy.

- NEVER EVER load a trailer tail heavy.

- Never drive over 45 miles per hour on good road, slow down on bad road.

Trailers loaded at 10% front heavy will track most perfectly behind a car, transmitting the least trailer movement to the car through the hitch.

If you put too much weight on the front it will unbalance the car, with a low rear end and the front suspension in the air, making driving unstable.

Too much weight in the back lifts the car up in the rear also making the vehicle unstable. But much more so, the rear weight bias is like a giant heavy club, it multiplies every movement, the effects of every sway, every bump, every turn, trying to throw you into a jackknife like effect. It will flip you around and have you facing mecca before you...

Will,.. read HCW's account of the actual happening of his accident. It pretty well describe's it.

45 miles per hour. Check any trailer rental firm, their trailers are plainly marked to not exceed that limit. At above 45, the chances of an accident are greatly magnified, it gets much worse very fast.

Below 45, you can usually control even a bad load, But I can dad-gummed well gurran-tee ya you will feel every, bump, bounce, jiggle and sway as your trailer tries to throw your car around every which way from Sunday.

If you get strong crosswinds with a rear weight biased trailer, an overloaded truck, (15 people at an average say of 150 pounds each comes to 2250 pounds.) and oversize tires, all stability is illusional and you have a rolling accident waiting for the right set of imbalances to come together for destruction.

If it had four wheel drive on an early 70's truck, multiply the instability factor by two.

Most non farm folk know nothing about these things I have written. Fortunately city folk don't use trailers that often.

Bad weight balance, overload, and too high a speed driving wrecked that truck in Ann Arbor, and sounds like a considerable factor in the LEAD accident to me. I hope this may help HCW in some way.

Edited August 2, 2012 by dabobbada

[Ham]

Another thread for my dear friend..

[Twinky]

Time for another bump on this thread, I think.

If you're new(ish) here, prepare for not just one but several horror stories, the principal one at the beginning, and others are interspersed in the later part of the thread. There's some foolish infighting in the middle.

And like all negative events, ALL of the events referred to were airbrushed from TWI history.

[waysider]

I never knew anything about this incident until I read it here. It makes me wonder what else they may have hidden from us. I'm sure there must be plenty.