Ex... The "venom" I spoke of was the unbridaled anger and bitterness directed at "leadership" vp lcm etc.etc. I was responsible for my twi involvement. No one else! When I heard "them" say things that were stupid, I didn't buy it. Once in a while (in res) I said so....that "that" was kinda a strech... learned real fast to keep my mouth closed if I wanted to "get along". Most of the time it was insignificant stuff. I NEVER taught anything on the field that I didn't SEE written. ( And not this, "if you're spiritual you can see it myth" )
There is the crux of the issue.... Lots of wanna be's smiling and noddin their heads .... "yeah, yeah yeah" to that MYTH... "if you're spiritual you'll see it"
Who didn't want to be spiritual???? That was the whole reason we were there!!! Who's gonna admit that they didn't see it????
So lots o little wannebe vp corps wanna beEs were ready to "have no friends when it came to the word" except that it wasn't "the word" but rather vpees word. SO... I caught a lot o crap when I said... "emmm maybe but I just don't see that" I guess I just wasn't spiritual...enough.
Now some of the very people who jumped me are just madder than hell that they bought it hook line and sinker... NO ONE TOLD THEM TO TURN OFF THEIR BRAIN. Half the time COMMON SENSE told you that things weren't right.
Hope... PRECISELY...
quote: And then there's the whole "God is no respector of persons" so we shouldn't be either, teaching. All that heart-felt teaching that he was no better than any other believer. Uh huh.
When you saw how "THEY"lived, and heard how WE were supposed to live... "as needed basis" ... Sorry didn't buy it. If God's no respecter of persons then I have as much need of a vacation, motor coach, big house, Harley, etc.etc.etc. I think you get it.
YES the "leaders" believed what they were teaching...
Belle... the hypocracy I spoke of was not wanting to take responsibility for their participation in twi and being totally "sold out". I'm sorry, I have little time for the cries of "I was deceived" coming from some of the biggest suck ups. Your apology (to me) is graceous but unnecessacary.
quote:I have seen posters here I was in res with that were THE BIGGEST suck ups.... spewing venom ferociusly. I was the target at times because I DIDN'T believe every word from VP's or LCM's lips were "from God". And I said so... Now it's funny to see the hypcrosy.
You know what Al? You have no idea how many times anyone else spoke up in residence. I was in trouble PLENTY of times because I said something wasn't right. If you're going to judge others as hypocrits, then it's only right to throw yourself into the mix, because if you, or any of us, had spoken up as many times as we SHOULD have, we wouldn't have graduated AND WE ALL KNEW THAT.
In Al's defense, I must say he brought a huge smile to my face when I overheard him ripping Arlene J a good one at Gunnison ... evidently she had said or done something unkind to L**da (Mrs. Al) and Al was telling her in no uncertain terms, "How DARE you ..." and "You will not..." At the time, I was suffering miserably and NOT speaking up under the reign of terror of Tom and Arlene and I thought for sure Al and the Mrs. would be gone before the day was out. I slipped back into the mailroom alcove and listened some more, and lo and behold! Arlene apologized to Al and the Mrs.
Now THAT'S speaking up.
Al also made me smile on the days we were packing up to leave that horrid block at Gunnison by walking around singing, "Ding! Dong! The witch is dead! The wicked witch is dead!" (Well, not dead exactly, but at least we were not under her evil thumb any more.)
I think Wierwille saw himself as the exception to the rule. He saw himself as working harder, knowing more Bible, having more love for people, than anybody else. He had more weight on his shoulders, all that revelation, praying for people, keeping the USA from falling to the Trilateral Commission. Moving the Word, in spite of all the incompetent people. (Sheesh, the Word would probably be Over the World if there just weren't so many dumb people in it!)
Moggy deserves some perks for working so hard. Moggy deserves special perks to keep Moggy working at such an intense capacity. The people should be thankful for the chance to serve (service) such a godly cause and such a godly man as me. Don't they feel grateful to be part of the inner workings of getting the Word Over the World?
Entitlement is one of the hallmarks of the marcissistic personality. Lack of empathy is another.
quote:Al also made me smile on the days we were packing up to leave that horrid block at Gunnison by walking around singing, "Ding! Dong! The witch is dead! The wicked witch is dead!"
Glad to HEAR that! LOL! Wish I'd been there for that one.
I was always placed with toe-the-party-line 11th Corps types after the first block. Guess they wanted to mellow me out (and keep an eye on me)? It always FELT LIKE one wrong move and I woulda been outta there.
Thanks for the kind rememberance TF.... Gunnison was just .... BAD! Jenky was nuts. Talk about lunatic.... I really do wish I had just written on my card (remember that "why I should be allowed to stay in the corpse")
"Can't think of any reason... BYE!"
But alas... we thought we were doing something noble .... didn't we!!
quote: I think Wierwille saw himself as the exception to the rule.
Gee, his butt kissed daily, lots of expensive gifts, "Hail to the Chief" played, a plane, motorcycle, throngs of adoring Wayfers and unquestioning loyalty. How he could ever become like that?
One of the most memorable things I remember about VPW was his consistently repeated prayer in which he prays to God about his being a good & faithful servant and about to receive great rewards for his faithfulness....I always wondered if he thought that the prayer (which totally elevated himself in the eyes of his followers (he thought))..was a prayer that he truly believed or not..
I had a couple of one on one encounter with the man & saw a side of him that was most arrogant & non condecending...so to watch him pray that prayer now & then (especially in his last days) was about the most comical thing I remember about him, & it totally removed the mask he hid behind via his "research"..
I figure it this way..if you were WC....you saw alot more of the "cultish" demands than we who were not WC...& even though I was exposed to some good & some evil WC ..most of the evil ones I blew off & just didn't go along with it...thus I to this day don't see my involvement as ever an involvement with a "cult"...just the trappings of the WC that were easy for me to blow off & just "do what's right"..instead of the baloney they were trying to sell... JJ
I gotta go with ex10 and Radar on that they believed what they said. I watched VP up close and very closely too many times in the early '70s, when he was teaching in the BRC. The intensity when he was really into teaching some great point, and the frustration when he didn't think he was getting the greatness of the idea across like he wanted too.
Remember the those passionate statements VP would say like: "Oh people, if you would only believe the greatness of the grace that God has given you!"
Well, that was his license to use and abuse young women. Just push grace a little here and healing a little there. Grace will cover your sin, God will forgive you, again and again and again. Here a little and there a little on the promises of God.
Rationalise it enough and you start to believe it, then it becomes doctrine.
What was Paul's thorn in the flesh, why it was the weakness that man had and it placed good ol' Godly Paul at the level of VP.
But VP knew his freedom in Christ to have free sex would anger and repulse ordinary believers, so he taught them a form of standard theology to keep them happy and reserved the great freedom revelations for his "spiritually mature," initiated ones, his inner circle of true believers.
The outer circle, fed pablum to keep them happy, the inner circle with the deeper secret truths, why it's :
The Waybylon Mystery Religion.
That's hypocracy.
I'm sure there was times when he was stretching things to fit his rationalizations that he knew he was wrong. But by the time I came along in '73, I believe VP believed all of it. From the milk and pablum he fed us babes in the word to spiritually mature secrets he taught the initiated ones of his inner orgy circle.
When I was looking at WayDale and GreaseSpot, I met a lady who had been on staff at HQ. One day she told me about a conversation she with a member of the extended Weirwille family while on staff. this woman had been the last person to visit VP on the bus just before he died.
VP was frustrated. He couldn't figure out what was that he had done in his life that allowed the cancer spirits to come in which were killing him.
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Al Poole
Ex... The "venom" I spoke of was the unbridaled anger and bitterness directed at "leadership" vp lcm etc.etc. I was responsible for my twi involvement. No one else! When I heard "them" say things that were stupid, I didn't buy it. Once in a while (in res) I said so....that "that" was kinda a strech... learned real fast to keep my mouth closed if I wanted to "get along". Most of the time it was insignificant stuff. I NEVER taught anything on the field that I didn't SEE written. ( And not this, "if you're spiritual you can see it myth" )
There is the crux of the issue.... Lots of wanna be's smiling and noddin their heads .... "yeah, yeah yeah" to that MYTH... "if you're spiritual you'll see it"
Who didn't want to be spiritual???? That was the whole reason we were there!!! Who's gonna admit that they didn't see it????
So lots o little wannebe vp corps wanna beEs were ready to "have no friends when it came to the word" except that it wasn't "the word" but rather vpees word. SO... I caught a lot o crap when I said... "emmm maybe but I just don't see that" I guess I just wasn't spiritual...enough.
Now some of the very people who jumped me are just madder than hell that they bought it hook line and sinker... NO ONE TOLD THEM TO TURN OFF THEIR BRAIN. Half the time COMMON SENSE told you that things weren't right.
Hope... PRECISELY...
When you saw how "THEY"lived, and heard how WE were supposed to live... "as needed basis" ... Sorry didn't buy it. If God's no respecter of persons then I have as much need of a vacation, motor coach, big house, Harley, etc.etc.etc. I think you get it.
YES the "leaders" believed what they were teaching...
Belle... the hypocracy I spoke of was not wanting to take responsibility for their participation in twi and being totally "sold out". I'm sorry, I have little time for the cries of "I was deceived" coming from some of the biggest suck ups. Your apology (to me) is graceous but unnecessacary.
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waterbuffalo
You know what Al? You have no idea how many times anyone else spoke up in residence. I was in trouble PLENTY of times because I said something wasn't right. If you're going to judge others as hypocrits, then it's only right to throw yourself into the mix, because if you, or any of us, had spoken up as many times as we SHOULD have, we wouldn't have graduated AND WE ALL KNEW THAT.
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ToadFriend
In Al's defense, I must say he brought a huge smile to my face when I overheard him ripping Arlene J a good one at Gunnison ... evidently she had said or done something unkind to L**da (Mrs. Al) and Al was telling her in no uncertain terms, "How DARE you ..." and "You will not..." At the time, I was suffering miserably and NOT speaking up under the reign of terror of Tom and Arlene and I thought for sure Al and the Mrs. would be gone before the day was out. I slipped back into the mailroom alcove and listened some more, and lo and behold! Arlene apologized to Al and the Mrs.
Now THAT'S speaking up.
Al also made me smile on the days we were packing up to leave that horrid block at Gunnison by walking around singing, "Ding! Dong! The witch is dead! The wicked witch is dead!" (Well, not dead exactly, but at least we were not under her evil thumb any more.)
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shazdancer
Al, you plucky li'l Wayfer, you!
I think Wierwille saw himself as the exception to the rule. He saw himself as working harder, knowing more Bible, having more love for people, than anybody else. He had more weight on his shoulders, all that revelation, praying for people, keeping the USA from falling to the Trilateral Commission. Moving the Word, in spite of all the incompetent people. (Sheesh, the Word would probably be Over the World if there just weren't so many dumb people in it!)
Moggy deserves some perks for working so hard. Moggy deserves special perks to keep Moggy working at such an intense capacity. The people should be thankful for the chance to serve (service) such a godly cause and such a godly man as me. Don't they feel grateful to be part of the inner workings of getting the Word Over the World?
Entitlement is one of the hallmarks of the marcissistic personality. Lack of empathy is another.
Regards,
Shaz
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excathedra
entitlement, lack of empathy.... that's him
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waterbuffalo
Glad to HEAR that! LOL! Wish I'd been there for that one.
I was always placed with toe-the-party-line 11th Corps types after the first block. Guess they wanted to mellow me out (and keep an eye on me)? It always FELT LIKE one wrong move and I woulda been outta there.
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Al Poole
Thanks for the kind rememberance TF.... Gunnison was just .... BAD! Jenky was nuts. Talk about lunatic.... I really do wish I had just written on my card (remember that "why I should be allowed to stay in the corpse")
"Can't think of any reason... BYE!"
But alas... we thought we were doing something noble .... didn't we!!
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JustThinking
Shaz said:
Gee, his butt kissed daily, lots of expensive gifts, "Hail to the Chief" played, a plane, motorcycle, throngs of adoring Wayfers and unquestioning loyalty. How he could ever become like that?
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Second James
One of the most memorable things I remember about VPW was his consistently repeated prayer in which he prays to God about his being a good & faithful servant and about to receive great rewards for his faithfulness....I always wondered if he thought that the prayer (which totally elevated himself in the eyes of his followers (he thought))..was a prayer that he truly believed or not..
I had a couple of one on one encounter with the man & saw a side of him that was most arrogant & non condecending...so to watch him pray that prayer now & then (especially in his last days) was about the most comical thing I remember about him, & it totally removed the mask he hid behind via his "research"..
I figure it this way..if you were WC....you saw alot more of the "cultish" demands than we who were not WC...& even though I was exposed to some good & some evil WC ..most of the evil ones I blew off & just didn't go along with it...thus I to this day don't see my involvement as ever an involvement with a "cult"...just the trappings of the WC that were easy for me to blow off & just "do what's right"..instead of the baloney they were trying to sell... JJ
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waterbuffalo
Al, did you check your pt?
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Nathan_Jr
Mmmnph
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