1983. He was sleeping with a girl barely out of jr. corps and also asked my mother to "help him pee" and exposed himself. Yet we stayed for 3 more years...
According to more than one local, vp was caught in a compromising position with his church secretary....
One guy came into chat several times, and said that ...his mom went to high school with vp, and it was her claim that he was *wild* even back then.
Could THAT be why the local folks had NO use for vp? Could that be why there was rarely any *fruit from nk? Maybe they all knew things concerning vp`s character that we didn`t.
I know that when he and Mrs. W got married, it was in secret cause they were both still in college...nobody knew for a year, if my memory serves me....looking back, it seems pretty sneaky to me. Why couldn`t they tell their families?
I think that he was breaking/finding ways around rules for many many years before he ever began his *ministry*
I never knew about the sex stuff untill ex and others started speaking up here....apparently that was only made known to those who could spiritually *handle* it.
It came as no suprise that LCM was a pervert, but it was devistating to find out that our spiritual leader .... the one who`s insight and wisdom I had based my entire life and being on...was an amoral predatory abuser as well.
I heard whispers and stories about VPW not too long after I got involved in the early 90's. At the time I dismissed it - didn't know any of the people who claimed to be victims.
Toward the end of the 90's, my kids were taking a kindermusic class which was held at a church. The minister of the church knew of TWI and brought me a bunch of info off the internet. I still dismissed it.
When the announcement came about LCM's "one time affair", I started having doubts about dismissing the stories, but was still not convinced.
Sometime shortly after that, a friend who was also involved with TWI came to me about another girl in our area who was once one of LCM's targets. I think she was the one who also told me there was a 2nd lawsuit with allegations of "sexual misconduct".
About this same time, I was having a lot of problems with leadership and in my marriage, and a number of doubts about TWI as a ministry. I started emailing back and forth with an old highschool friend who started sending me all kinds of info on TWI. Some of it was the same stuff the minister had given me, some of it was new. This was when I found Waydale (which was shortly before it shut down).
I started connecting a lot of dots regarding LCM's "affairs", the things he taught, and the problems in my marriage. I left TWI.
However, it wasn't until I came here and saw posts by a certain poster that I became convinced the "stories" about VPW were also true.
I was totally unaware of anything by vpee until Waydale. I had fleeting suspicions of lcm from tome to time around the mid 80's but I dismissed them until I was forced to look at them in the very late 90's.
LCM tried to fuk my wife one time before I married her. She was a single Corps grad on the field at the time it happened in 1980 or 81. He had been in town as the Corps Director, teaching the Corps at some advance or another. He invited her into his hotel room, and asked her for a back rub. She obliged, thinking that it would be a nice thing for her to do, and, she felt priviledged to do so.
As she rubbed his back, he turned over on his own back and began to fondle her breasts. At that point, she jumped up, totally shocked, and told him emphatically that "It wasn't going to happen! You are married for God's sake! What about Donna?! I thought "It Is Written" is our motto!" And so she grabbed her coat and left the hotel room. Didn't give a .... what he thought of her. What God thought of her was all that mattered. Later Craig sent her a note of apology wherein he said that he didn't normally live his life like that, blah blah blah, and please forgive me.. Over the years after that, he was especially kind to her.
I learned about that in '83 after I married her, so that's when I first believed that there was sexual misconduct in the TWI upper mucky muck level. But, I still thought of it as an isolated incident, and that Craig was simply caught up in a "weak moment". And besides, my wife was and is incredibly sexy! Yeah baby yeah! :)-->
I am proud of her for "just saying no" though. She believed it was wrong according to "It Is Written", the Way Corps motto, and she took a stand on it against The Way Corps director's wishes! Hah! Stuck it right to him instead of the other way around! Now that was some kind of contradiction, no?
In 1984 when I was WOW, my Fam Coord told us that VPW told him that sex could be healing for some people.
This Fam Coord fukd my WOW sister among several other women that year. He used to give really long and great backrubs. I let him give me one until he started kissing my neck. It was wayyyyy too weird.
In 1985, I went to ROA. My best friend was going in the 17th corps. She and I stopped to talk to another girl who was also going in the 17th. That girl was a dancer in Athletes of the Spirit. She was telling my friend about going on a motorcycle ride alone with LCM and how good looking he was (whatever!!). She seemed completely smitten by him and was telling us how she got to spend so much time with him. I shrugged it off as BS and a girl with a crush back then.
In between all of this, I had ran in to several limb schmucks and region schmucks who were obviously dipping their wicks wherever they could. Single women would live with them, and the single women were telling me of their "love" affairs with some of these married jerks.
My cousin went WOW and ended up walking in on his Fam Coord screwing the limb coord. That was in 1984.
While on Staff, a cabinet wife told me about VPW cheating on his wife with several women. This was after the announcement of lcm's one time affair. I thought back to all of these incidents at that time, and thought it was stinking to high heavens for many years in twi.
It wasn't until I came to GSC and heard of ex's experiences and the ones I read on John J's site that I realized how bad it actually was.
Yeah Wayfernot, she is an awesome girl. No doubt she pre-empted lots of guilt, condemnation, and confusion by "not going there". No doubt she "missed out" on lots of "inside information" when it came to "upper eschelon sordid sexual escapades", but I'm sure the trade off was worth it.
Now, somone metioned that VP said that sex can sometimes be healing. Well, I do know for a fact that my wife "heals me" on a regular basis, and I am really thankful for that! ;)--> And hopefully I am as healing to her as she is to me! But I think we are ok there in that dept. But as far as sex being healing at times for single people, and VPW's statement, well. I would like to relay an incident.
There was a girl in my corps who was just plain dynamite. She had a perfect little body, a beautiful face, was way intelligent, and was known for being scrappy, tough. One never messed with ______, without a serious challenge. At rodeo school, it did not surprise me at all when she showed up and distinguished herself quite well. When that old horse bucked her off, we thought she was going to single handedly kill the horse with her bare hands!
One time, I took her on a date up in the hills where we went shooting up above Camp Gunnison. While there after blasting some beer cans, she made some amorous advances toward me, and, being a guy, I was very flattered, and very interested. But, since I didn't want to mislead her, I shunned the upturned face that was expecting a kiss.
This hurt her feelings, and at that point I did all that I could to bolster her self confidence as a woman. But, she cried in my arms and told me that ever since high school, she always thought that she was "ugly" and that no guy would ever want her, and that was why at 26 or 27, she was still a virgin. I told her that this was a totally ridiculous idea and that she was an incredibly beautiful woman, and that all of the guys in our corps thought of her as one of the top ten knockouts at Emporia and Gunnison. She perked up at that thought, but still didn't appear to believe it. We remained good friends and we talked regularly, but she continued to think lowly of herself in regard to her own personal beauty, regardless of the fact that she really was "killer" hot. I'd describe her, but then some of you may guess who she is, and that wouldn't be cool.
Then, we all went on our interim year. She went somewhere east as a WOW team coordinator. And when I saw her at the following Corps Week, I hardly recognized her. She was wearing some really nice form fitting clothes, low cut tops, and her overall attitude was one of; "Here I am you lucky guys! Step up to the plate and see if you measure up!" I couldn't believe it! I finally got with her and asked her what it was that brought about the change, and in three words, she explained it all. She said with a mischievous grin; "I Got Laid".
Whoah! I said; "Really?" And she said; "Yep, and it totally changed my attitude about myself. I realized that I am someone to be desired and that I would be a very good "catch" for some lucky guy, and I am not worried about my romantic future anymore!" And then she winked at me and said; "Too bad you missed out!" To which I seriously felt somewhat left out. Dammit! (grin)
But she went on to say how much it liberated her and made her feel like a woman, and how it was such a great thing for her, having been such a "prude" and a "polly purebred" as she put it. And so, this woman, whose name shall remain anonymous did later on find a wonderful man, and has been married with kids for years now. And so it seems as if IN THAT PARTICULAR INCIDENT, sex was a very good thing for her...
Any of you other gals have an incident that could corroborate such thinking? Or was this just an isolated kind of a thing?
I suspected one or two of our LC's were *dipping their wicks* during the 90's but never actually saw anything. There were rumors circulating about one fella, the girl moved out of the area shortly after the disclosure and the leader traded states with our new leader.
And then of course martindales body language, his ideas that all the women of the kingdom belong to the king and it just sorta made ya want to go Hmmmmm.....
The first I heard of anything of that nature was in the fall of '80.
The sixth corps had gone back in res. for a year and I started to hear some feedback from some of the sixth corps clergy about what they had learned while back in res. Yikes! TMI!
This was all second-hand information, but I was told how they had really worked the subject of "agape" and "phileo" and "eros" and how part of their conclusions included that sex was a real loving thing to do for one another regardless of one's marital status. Hence, fellatio for the MOG was just fine (and to be expected, I guess) and whatever kind of sex act you'd like to persue with whoever was just fine too. All you had to be sure of was that everybody was "fully initiated" or whatever.
I remember at the time thinking that "this is pretty whacked" and that there must be some mistake. This couldn't possibly be the real WayWorld spin on sex. So I sorta just put it all out of my mind. Until I heard similar rumblings just a few years later...
It was 1978. I had been at my assignment in NJ for a few months when I got a call from one of my best Corps girlfriends who had been assigned to the Atlanta area. She told me she was in NJ and asked if she could come see me - she wanted to tell me something.
When she got to my apartment, she proceeded to tell me what had happened on her interim year when she was a WOW in State College, PA. What she told me made my head spin. I’m not going to go through all the details - it’s all on John Juedes’ site. (Marsha's Story)
Anyway, she told me that when she went to VP’s coach - he first asked her to give him a back rub and then turned over on his back and told her to finish the job. She went on to tell me that he had intercourse with her several times after the first incident. He has convinced her that it was “on the Wordâ€, and that she had a “ministry†for it. She told me that she had decided to leave TWI, and was telling all those who were close to her why.
After she left I was pretty shaken up. The next day, I called Vince F. to tell him about what had happened. The first thing he asked me was “Well, do you believe her?†I told him I didn’t know what to believe - that I was upset and confused. That her story was pretty detailed - and didn’t it sound like she made it up. He then said something like “You know a deceiving spirit has to first deceive the person they’re in before they can deceive you.†He then went on to tell me about all the devil spirits my friend had around and in her. Not just deceiving, but charming, and lying and a whole bunch of others. He told me that VP had invited her to HQ’s to stay on staff until she could get healed - but she refused. So what did that tell me?
I hate to say it but it was the only reasonable alternative to believing that her story was true - and I swallowed it.
Fast forward 6 or 7 years… It was after VP was dead - I was at a Corps week hanging out with a group of women - just talking, laughing and “sharing heartsâ€. I don’t know how it came up, but a girl who was in the 9th Corps who I didn’t really know very well started to tell us about her experiences with VP. I got chills down my spine - her story was almost exactly the same story I’d heard from my friend years before. Another woman chimed in and told us that she’d heard about another woman who had the same thing happen.
At that moment, I knew all the stories were true. I felt so frikkin miserable. I swore that if I ever heard from my friend again - I would beg her forgiveness.
It took the internet for me to find her. She had posted her story on John Juedes’ site. When I saw it, I started to cry. I was posting under my assumed name at the time because I was still in TWI.. I wrote to John Juedes and told him my predicament - I asked him to send my friend my email and phone number. When I apologized to her a whole lot of guilt was lifted off my shoulders - and it was so nice to talk to her again.
I think about how naïve and gullible I was - and yes - brainwashed to a certain extent. Brainwashed to believe that the MOG could NEVER do anything like that. It HAD to be a lie. Brainwashed to believe that my friend was chock full of devil spirits. Brainwashed enough to stick around for 15 more years.
I’m sorry to say we haven’t kept in touch. But I think of her when often - especially when threads like this appear on GS and hope all is well with her.
I would have to say the first time I heard something that didn't sit right with me regarding VP and another woman...was in 1976.
This woman was visiting HQ for the very first time. She had just finished PFAL for the 1st time a few months prior. She met VP when she was at HQ (1st time as well) and he called her over. He was sitting in a lounger style deck chairs. She went over, had her introduce herself and started to talk with her. He then started to rub her back, then proceeded to rub her back under her shirt. Then, took his hand and went under her bra-strap. At this point she felt very uncomfortable.
He sensed her uncomfortability and said, "Honey, there ain't nothing to worry here. There's no evil here. There's no evil here."
How's that for an introduction THE MAN OF GOD FOR OUR TIME!!!!!!!
My wow family coordinator had an affair w/the limb coordin. of her state. She told me all about it, then read me pop word for word and told me that he'd driven her to the clinic for her abortion. He and His wife. The wife of said human did not know it was her husband that had got her in "the family way"- it scrambled her brains. Scrambled mine too new adv cl grad as I was. I was also advised later the next year to get an abortion by the corps coordinator (not loy boy-but I can't recall his name.) I did. So did many of the fiancee of corps that year, and the next and the next. I am thankful that I never did have children w/ husband #1, I would have never gotten out but the time frame revolves around pop and all that mayhem. If Limb guys felt comfortable enough to act thusly, it was like an unoffical policy-Mr corpse coordin. had the "talk her into it" speech down very well.
The first time I heard about it was after I was out.
My wife and I were attending a Baptist church and talking about past history when the subject of TWI came up. A couple we had known for several years started talking. They had lived in Austin in the early 80's and had a problem with a leader there, Seems when she refused to accept the advances of the leader that they were run out because SHE was after him.
Right after we left TWI in '86 we talked with a girl who had been groped by veepee when she was in rez in the 70's. We heard of other accounts and suddenly all of those incidents that never sat well with me rushed to the forefront. Like the in rez pajama party where he showed porn flicks, (and I mean the ones with a woman and a horse) to us in the corps with the junior corps present. There were other incidents throughout the years which should have been huge red flags, but when you don't connect the dots because you think you are part of the single most important spiritual movement of our time,
you become blind to reality. Shoot, I can't believe how duped I was.
quote:And so it seems as if IN THAT PARTICULAR INCIDENT, sex was a very good thing for her...
Maybe for her Jonny, but I don't necessarily agree with that across the board. My thoughts are that it was kind of sad that she still had to look to someone else to feel "worthy". I think our society pumps this attitude toward women all day long and has been for generation after generation. Learning to be satisfied with yourself and what you are without anybody else is also very liberating. Then when you meet that special someone after you have "found" yourself makes the relationship so much beter because you aren't constantly bothered by your lack of self worth.
Excellent point, Wafer Not. The other concern I had after reading that story was that it seemed this girls self worth was too tied up in her sexuality.
IF she views herself as worthy only because of her sexuality, the likely result is that she will wind up with men who likewise only view her as worth for her sexuality. Sad.
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Georgio Jessio
1983. He was sleeping with a girl barely out of jr. corps and also asked my mother to "help him pee" and exposed himself. Yet we stayed for 3 more years...
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dmiller
I didn't hear of it, until the mid, to late 80's. It was the final kick in the butt, that got me over the twi threshhold, and out the door.
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WordWolf
There's some question and speculation-which, of course, is not PROOF, just an
idea-that this is tied into why he and his old denomination parted ways.
This is only one idea among several. However, it is possible.
If vpw wasn't "active" when he hijacked the hippies and the Jesus People movement,
I'd be VERY surprised. It would be nice to get a confirmation of this from
someone who was there, however.
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rascal
According to more than one local, vp was caught in a compromising position with his church secretary....
One guy came into chat several times, and said that ...his mom went to high school with vp, and it was her claim that he was *wild* even back then.
Could THAT be why the local folks had NO use for vp? Could that be why there was rarely any *fruit from nk? Maybe they all knew things concerning vp`s character that we didn`t.
I know that when he and Mrs. W got married, it was in secret cause they were both still in college...nobody knew for a year, if my memory serves me....looking back, it seems pretty sneaky to me. Why couldn`t they tell their families?
I think that he was breaking/finding ways around rules for many many years before he ever began his *ministry*
I never knew about the sex stuff untill ex and others started speaking up here....apparently that was only made known to those who could spiritually *handle* it.
It came as no suprise that LCM was a pervert, but it was devistating to find out that our spiritual leader .... the one who`s insight and wisdom I had based my entire life and being on...was an amoral predatory abuser as well.
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Zshot
The first time I heard about alot of "stuff" was on "Waydale" (as a lurker) then here at GS.
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markomalley
As with z-shot, the first I heard of it was Waydale.
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Abigail
I heard whispers and stories about VPW not too long after I got involved in the early 90's. At the time I dismissed it - didn't know any of the people who claimed to be victims.
Toward the end of the 90's, my kids were taking a kindermusic class which was held at a church. The minister of the church knew of TWI and brought me a bunch of info off the internet. I still dismissed it.
When the announcement came about LCM's "one time affair", I started having doubts about dismissing the stories, but was still not convinced.
Sometime shortly after that, a friend who was also involved with TWI came to me about another girl in our area who was once one of LCM's targets. I think she was the one who also told me there was a 2nd lawsuit with allegations of "sexual misconduct".
About this same time, I was having a lot of problems with leadership and in my marriage, and a number of doubts about TWI as a ministry. I started emailing back and forth with an old highschool friend who started sending me all kinds of info on TWI. Some of it was the same stuff the minister had given me, some of it was new. This was when I found Waydale (which was shortly before it shut down).
I started connecting a lot of dots regarding LCM's "affairs", the things he taught, and the problems in my marriage. I left TWI.
However, it wasn't until I came here and saw posts by a certain poster that I became convinced the "stories" about VPW were also true.
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krys
I was totally unaware of anything by vpee until Waydale. I had fleeting suspicions of lcm from tome to time around the mid 80's but I dismissed them until I was forced to look at them in the very late 90's.
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waterbuffalo
Waydale.
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J0nny Ling0
LCM tried to fuk my wife one time before I married her. She was a single Corps grad on the field at the time it happened in 1980 or 81. He had been in town as the Corps Director, teaching the Corps at some advance or another. He invited her into his hotel room, and asked her for a back rub. She obliged, thinking that it would be a nice thing for her to do, and, she felt priviledged to do so.
As she rubbed his back, he turned over on his own back and began to fondle her breasts. At that point, she jumped up, totally shocked, and told him emphatically that "It wasn't going to happen! You are married for God's sake! What about Donna?! I thought "It Is Written" is our motto!" And so she grabbed her coat and left the hotel room. Didn't give a .... what he thought of her. What God thought of her was all that mattered. Later Craig sent her a note of apology wherein he said that he didn't normally live his life like that, blah blah blah, and please forgive me.. Over the years after that, he was especially kind to her.
I learned about that in '83 after I married her, so that's when I first believed that there was sexual misconduct in the TWI upper mucky muck level. But, I still thought of it as an isolated incident, and that Craig was simply caught up in a "weak moment". And besides, my wife was and is incredibly sexy! Yeah baby yeah!
:)-->
I am proud of her for "just saying no" though. She believed it was wrong according to "It Is Written", the Way Corps motto, and she took a stand on it against The Way Corps director's wishes! Hah! Stuck it right to him instead of the other way around! Now that was some kind of contradiction, no?
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Nottawayfer
In 1984 when I was WOW, my Fam Coord told us that VPW told him that sex could be healing for some people.
This Fam Coord fukd my WOW sister among several other women that year. He used to give really long and great backrubs. I let him give me one until he started kissing my neck. It was wayyyyy too weird.
In 1985, I went to ROA. My best friend was going in the 17th corps. She and I stopped to talk to another girl who was also going in the 17th. That girl was a dancer in Athletes of the Spirit. She was telling my friend about going on a motorcycle ride alone with LCM and how good looking he was (whatever!!). She seemed completely smitten by him and was telling us how she got to spend so much time with him. I shrugged it off as BS and a girl with a crush back then.
In between all of this, I had ran in to several limb schmucks and region schmucks who were obviously dipping their wicks wherever they could. Single women would live with them, and the single women were telling me of their "love" affairs with some of these married jerks.
My cousin went WOW and ended up walking in on his Fam Coord screwing the limb coord. That was in 1984.
While on Staff, a cabinet wife told me about VPW cheating on his wife with several women. This was after the announcement of lcm's one time affair. I thought back to all of these incidents at that time, and thought it was stinking to high heavens for many years in twi.
It wasn't until I came to GSC and heard of ex's experiences and the ones I read on John J's site that I realized how bad it actually was.
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DaddyHoundog
around the time of the rehersals of Athelete's of the Spurit...
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Nottawayfer
Johnny, your wife rocks! She handled her situation really well.
:)-->
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J0nny Ling0
Yeah Wayfernot, she is an awesome girl. No doubt she pre-empted lots of guilt, condemnation, and confusion by "not going there". No doubt she "missed out" on lots of "inside information" when it came to "upper eschelon sordid sexual escapades", but I'm sure the trade off was worth it.
Now, somone metioned that VP said that sex can sometimes be healing. Well, I do know for a fact that my wife "heals me" on a regular basis, and I am really thankful for that!
;)--> And hopefully I am as healing to her as she is to me! But I think we are ok there in that dept. But as far as sex being healing at times for single people, and VPW's statement, well. I would like to relay an incident.
There was a girl in my corps who was just plain dynamite. She had a perfect little body, a beautiful face, was way intelligent, and was known for being scrappy, tough. One never messed with ______, without a serious challenge. At rodeo school, it did not surprise me at all when she showed up and distinguished herself quite well. When that old horse bucked her off, we thought she was going to single handedly kill the horse with her bare hands!
One time, I took her on a date up in the hills where we went shooting up above Camp Gunnison. While there after blasting some beer cans, she made some amorous advances toward me, and, being a guy, I was very flattered, and very interested. But, since I didn't want to mislead her, I shunned the upturned face that was expecting a kiss.
This hurt her feelings, and at that point I did all that I could to bolster her self confidence as a woman. But, she cried in my arms and told me that ever since high school, she always thought that she was "ugly" and that no guy would ever want her, and that was why at 26 or 27, she was still a virgin. I told her that this was a totally ridiculous idea and that she was an incredibly beautiful woman, and that all of the guys in our corps thought of her as one of the top ten knockouts at Emporia and Gunnison. She perked up at that thought, but still didn't appear to believe it. We remained good friends and we talked regularly, but she continued to think lowly of herself in regard to her own personal beauty, regardless of the fact that she really was "killer" hot. I'd describe her, but then some of you may guess who she is, and that wouldn't be cool.
Then, we all went on our interim year. She went somewhere east as a WOW team coordinator. And when I saw her at the following Corps Week, I hardly recognized her. She was wearing some really nice form fitting clothes, low cut tops, and her overall attitude was one of; "Here I am you lucky guys! Step up to the plate and see if you measure up!" I couldn't believe it! I finally got with her and asked her what it was that brought about the change, and in three words, she explained it all. She said with a mischievous grin; "I Got Laid".
Whoah! I said; "Really?" And she said; "Yep, and it totally changed my attitude about myself. I realized that I am someone to be desired and that I would be a very good "catch" for some lucky guy, and I am not worried about my romantic future anymore!" And then she winked at me and said; "Too bad you missed out!" To which I seriously felt somewhat left out. Dammit! (grin)
But she went on to say how much it liberated her and made her feel like a woman, and how it was such a great thing for her, having been such a "prude" and a "polly purebred" as she put it. And so, this woman, whose name shall remain anonymous did later on find a wonderful man, and has been married with kids for years now. And so it seems as if IN THAT PARTICULAR INCIDENT, sex was a very good thing for her...
Any of you other gals have an incident that could corroborate such thinking? Or was this just an isolated kind of a thing?
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herbiejuan
I suspected one or two of our LC's were *dipping their wicks* during the 90's but never actually saw anything. There were rumors circulating about one fella, the girl moved out of the area shortly after the disclosure and the leader traded states with our new leader.
And then of course martindales body language, his ideas that all the women of the kingdom belong to the king and it just sorta made ya want to go Hmmmmm.....
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George Aar
The first I heard of anything of that nature was in the fall of '80.
The sixth corps had gone back in res. for a year and I started to hear some feedback from some of the sixth corps clergy about what they had learned while back in res. Yikes! TMI!
This was all second-hand information, but I was told how they had really worked the subject of "agape" and "phileo" and "eros" and how part of their conclusions included that sex was a real loving thing to do for one another regardless of one's marital status. Hence, fellatio for the MOG was just fine (and to be expected, I guess) and whatever kind of sex act you'd like to persue with whoever was just fine too. All you had to be sure of was that everybody was "fully initiated" or whatever.
I remember at the time thinking that "this is pretty whacked" and that there must be some mistake. This couldn't possibly be the real WayWorld spin on sex. So I sorta just put it all out of my mind. Until I heard similar rumblings just a few years later...
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Hope R.
I've told this story before, but here goes:
It was 1978. I had been at my assignment in NJ for a few months when I got a call from one of my best Corps girlfriends who had been assigned to the Atlanta area. She told me she was in NJ and asked if she could come see me - she wanted to tell me something.
When she got to my apartment, she proceeded to tell me what had happened on her interim year when she was a WOW in State College, PA. What she told me made my head spin. I’m not going to go through all the details - it’s all on John Juedes’ site. (Marsha's Story)
Anyway, she told me that when she went to VP’s coach - he first asked her to give him a back rub and then turned over on his back and told her to finish the job. She went on to tell me that he had intercourse with her several times after the first incident. He has convinced her that it was “on the Wordâ€, and that she had a “ministry†for it. She told me that she had decided to leave TWI, and was telling all those who were close to her why.
After she left I was pretty shaken up. The next day, I called Vince F. to tell him about what had happened. The first thing he asked me was “Well, do you believe her?†I told him I didn’t know what to believe - that I was upset and confused. That her story was pretty detailed - and didn’t it sound like she made it up. He then said something like “You know a deceiving spirit has to first deceive the person they’re in before they can deceive you.†He then went on to tell me about all the devil spirits my friend had around and in her. Not just deceiving, but charming, and lying and a whole bunch of others. He told me that VP had invited her to HQ’s to stay on staff until she could get healed - but she refused. So what did that tell me?
I hate to say it but it was the only reasonable alternative to believing that her story was true - and I swallowed it.
Fast forward 6 or 7 years… It was after VP was dead - I was at a Corps week hanging out with a group of women - just talking, laughing and “sharing heartsâ€. I don’t know how it came up, but a girl who was in the 9th Corps who I didn’t really know very well started to tell us about her experiences with VP. I got chills down my spine - her story was almost exactly the same story I’d heard from my friend years before. Another woman chimed in and told us that she’d heard about another woman who had the same thing happen.
At that moment, I knew all the stories were true. I felt so frikkin miserable. I swore that if I ever heard from my friend again - I would beg her forgiveness.
It took the internet for me to find her. She had posted her story on John Juedes’ site. When I saw it, I started to cry. I was posting under my assumed name at the time because I was still in TWI.. I wrote to John Juedes and told him my predicament - I asked him to send my friend my email and phone number. When I apologized to her a whole lot of guilt was lifted off my shoulders - and it was so nice to talk to her again.
I think about how naïve and gullible I was - and yes - brainwashed to a certain extent. Brainwashed to believe that the MOG could NEVER do anything like that. It HAD to be a lie. Brainwashed to believe that my friend was chock full of devil spirits. Brainwashed enough to stick around for 15 more years.
I’m sorry to say we haven’t kept in touch. But I think of her when often - especially when threads like this appear on GS and hope all is well with her.
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A la prochaine
I would have to say the first time I heard something that didn't sit right with me regarding VP and another woman...was in 1976.
This woman was visiting HQ for the very first time. She had just finished PFAL for the 1st time a few months prior. She met VP when she was at HQ (1st time as well) and he called her over. He was sitting in a lounger style deck chairs. She went over, had her introduce herself and started to talk with her. He then started to rub her back, then proceeded to rub her back under her shirt. Then, took his hand and went under her bra-strap. At this point she felt very uncomfortable.
He sensed her uncomfortability and said, "Honey, there ain't nothing to worry here. There's no evil here. There's no evil here."
How's that for an introduction THE MAN OF GOD FOR OUR TIME!!!!!!!
PIG.
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A la prochaine
By the way, that was the beginning of many incidents I had either heard or knew of.
Some of VP, others of leadership I had the not so awesome privilege of working with.
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andreatheflorist
My wow family coordinator had an affair w/the limb coordin. of her state. She told me all about it, then read me pop word for word and told me that he'd driven her to the clinic for her abortion. He and His wife. The wife of said human did not know it was her husband that had got her in "the family way"- it scrambled her brains. Scrambled mine too new adv cl grad as I was. I was also advised later the next year to get an abortion by the corps coordinator (not loy boy-but I can't recall his name.) I did. So did many of the fiancee of corps that year, and the next and the next. I am thankful that I never did have children w/ husband #1, I would have never gotten out but the time frame revolves around pop and all that mayhem. If Limb guys felt comfortable enough to act thusly, it was like an unoffical policy-Mr corpse coordin. had the "talk her into it" speech down very well.
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ex70sHouston
The first time I heard about it was after I was out.
My wife and I were attending a Baptist church and talking about past history when the subject of TWI came up. A couple we had known for several years started talking. They had lived in Austin in the early 80's and had a problem with a leader there, Seems when she refused to accept the advances of the leader that they were run out because SHE was after him.
Doesn't that sound a little familur.
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tonto
Right after we left TWI in '86 we talked with a girl who had been groped by veepee when she was in rez in the 70's. We heard of other accounts and suddenly all of those incidents that never sat well with me rushed to the forefront. Like the in rez pajama party where he showed porn flicks, (and I mean the ones with a woman and a horse) to us in the corps with the junior corps present. There were other incidents throughout the years which should have been huge red flags, but when you don't connect the dots because you think you are part of the single most important spiritual movement of our time,
you become blind to reality. Shoot, I can't believe how duped I was.
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Nottawayfer
Maybe for her Jonny, but I don't necessarily agree with that across the board. My thoughts are that it was kind of sad that she still had to look to someone else to feel "worthy". I think our society pumps this attitude toward women all day long and has been for generation after generation. Learning to be satisfied with yourself and what you are without anybody else is also very liberating. Then when you meet that special someone after you have "found" yourself makes the relationship so much beter because you aren't constantly bothered by your lack of self worth.
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Abigail
Excellent point, Wafer Not. The other concern I had after reading that story was that it seemed this girls self worth was too tied up in her sexuality.
IF she views herself as worthy only because of her sexuality, the likely result is that she will wind up with men who likewise only view her as worth for her sexuality. Sad.
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