"Do you, Loy, take C. as your unlawful wedded whatever.." "hisss, spit spit curse" "and do you, C. promise to have and to hold, for now and forever.." "Hiss, hisss, spit curse curse.."
But they wouldn't need to dredge up anybody else for the wedding party. Already have "best men" and "maids of honor" (Don't think ole Rosie could quite qualify as a maid though..)
Thanks for the encouragement Ala. I don't know if you've ever seen "celebrity death match", blood and guts claymation. That would be perfect: "tonight, Loy vs. Phil". Loy wouldn't stand a chance..
quote: Sometimes, I think having a sense of humor can be the best revenge..
Touch?BR>
That reminds me of an incident where someone told me about a time some stupid thick headed leader ranted on and on and on about something they thought was off that this person had done.
After this leader was done, the person who was being reproved burst out into laughter. Couldn't contain themselves. They thought the whole thing was absolutely ridiculous.
The reprover was completely disarmed. They tried to show how 'unspiritual' this person was but it didn't go anywhere. They pretty much walked away having no effect.
With humour, you can often render the power struggle ineffective. I use this in the classroom everyday. It works.
Maybe Craig should have been in the movie Groundhog Day? He wakes every day and it's the ROA and he has to go through POP again and again and again until he becomes a decent human being? Seems like he deserves it more than Bill Murray's character. Although I'm not sure that town in PA deserves to live through that.
(Anyone know how to spell the town where the groundhog shows up? I can say it but the spelling is a challenge)
quote:Anyone know how to spell the town where the groundhog shows up?
Punxsutawney
The legend of Groundhog Day is based on an old Scottish couplet: "If Candlemas Day is bright and clear, there'll be two winters in the year."
Every February 2, people gather at Gobbler's Knob, a wooded knoll just outside of Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania.
Residents contend that the groundhog has never been wrong.
The ceremony in Punxsutawney was held in secret until 1966, and only Phil's prediction was revealed to the public. Since then, Phil's fearless forecast has been a national media event.
quote:After all that, here's my question? Did vpw foresee the clashing of egos of these two men....cgeer and lcm....and strategically put an ocean of water between them knowing that they couldn't possibly work together? And more yet.....KNOW that divisions would be on the horizon and follow his death?
Of course VPW saw the conflict & potential clash of egos between LCM/CG. It was inevitable. However, the BIGGEST problem I saw w/POP was that the indiscretions, the allegations against LCM & the trustees were NOT handled according to the Bible. The biggest thing I got from POP was that there were malcontents on the staff @ HQ who were trying to "do it right." I felt I was one of the "malcontents." Here we malcontents were "fighting for the Word" at HQ and CG comes riding in on his high horse saying they are doing S#$t but I'm not gonna tell you what it is.
I left the WOW Auditorium that night thinking something like. "That was Chris being Chris." I was ....ed because I felt that if he was gonna tell us OF the crap he should have brought two or three witnesses who would tell us THE CRAP, itself. I felt CG's neglect to tell us WHAT they (the BOT) did was a power play on his part; ....ed me right off. I felt the BOT's response seemed somehow rehearsed. (If they had never heard of it before HOW could the say "It's all true?" I felt a more honest response would be something like, "We'll consider this and make a formal response by such and such a date." To this day I have not listened to an entire tape from his ministry. Had no desire to go to Gartmore, my desire was to run to GOD-more. (Hey, that one just fell out of the sky... .)
At Corps week a year later when CG said the BOT was trying to kill such and such a person. I felt decorum demanded that person X should have said, "THEY tried to kill ME, in this way." Then have the law haul their asses away in handcuffs. Attempted murder is still a crime, isn't it?
History teaches us POWER CORRUPTS; and ABSOLUTE POWER corrupts ABSOLUTELY. We, the rank & file human beings, most times interpret that to say...
"Power corrupts SOME people, SOME of the time and absolute power ABSOLUTELY HAS corrupted some people ABSOLUTELY." BIG difference.
The division between "them & us" seems to be an eternal thread on the tapestry of society since society began. Them, the "leadership" & us the people; or rank & file. We, the PEOPLE neglect to acknowledge the absolute simplicity of ...
POWER CORRUPTS. It is the NATURE of power to corrupt human beings.
Power corrupts EVERYONE, all of the time. The more power one has, the closer they come to the ABSOLUTE CORRUPTION that absolute power absolutely brings to any ONE who absolutely has ALL of the power. We sit here and eloquently tap out the tidings of three "power"-full people. (Yeah they were "full of it" all right [saved you the trouble ]!!!!!) No one would argue, as it seems indisputable, that there is corruption in that camp. Corruption directly related to that whole "quest for power" thing.
My take on the whole thing is "...the love of money is the ROOT of ALL evil." When all the "schick" hit the fan TWI was a $22 million per year corporation where one could, many times, get an executive or higher level position with few to none of the professional requirements as part of their actual resume. Even the lower level positions were coveted. Regardless of your feelings about CG or POP the document had, as Linda Z wrote, some relevance. There were, as POP says "little kingdoms" all over HQ & around the country.
Little kingdoms where "Power Corrupts." There were those who wanted it all or at least their pieces of it; a kingdom. The power struggle for TWI started way back in the sixties when they began seeing the fruit of some type of success. We've heard the stories, VPW's "coup," etc.
There is value to posting here, but I'm concerned about some of what I read. Not for whatever legacy VPW, et al. may have left but my concern is for you, me & US today. Last night, somebody asked me something to the effect of what I thought of people's axe grinding here on GS. I felt like posting my answer here:
"I think that some people with some legitimate gripes take them way too far."
Regardless of what you or I may feel of LCM, VPW or CG, they are or were what they are/were. Biblically speaking, looking back on past wrongs has little value outside of providing "patience and comfort" leading to "hope." Endless axe grinding, arguably, and grudge carrying, certainly, grinds THE GRINDER and burdens with the weight of the grudge, THE CARRIER.
As we examine any of 'them' we must additionally examine ourselves. Again the Bible warns that "you who pass judgement on someone else.. at whatever point you judge the other you are condemning YOURSELF, because you who pass judgement do the same things."
What? Who ME? No, not I. My concern is that I think I MAY be seeing some who are condemning themselves by their view of past actions of others. Oh. I didn't do THAT, a person may say; and so easily dismiss GOD's truth from their lives. Such dismissal itself is sin in and of itself. Sin is sin is sin, although some actions carry longer term and even much greater consequences than others. "Victimless" sin is sin against self.
One thing I learned from my first divorce (you'da though I learned enough! -->) when I was rightfully indignant about my wife's OBVIOUS indisputable crimes against me. I hated and felt justified, and anyone who knew of said crimes was equally indignant and full of dislike for both her and the things she did to me.
The one thing I eventually, finally, learned hit me when, after years of sucessfully distancing myself from the events and subsequent pain AND even most of the consequences, somebody asked me, "Do you think you'll marry again?" The thing that hit me actually had little to do with my answer to the question. What hit me was that I didn't immediately say, "Yes, of course I will." Period.
Huh?
What hit me then was this:
I hadn't reached a gut level, life or death, level one honesty place with myself yet. Especially so as it pertained to that particular subject. I was stuck on the legitimate hatred that resulted in the unanimous "GUILTY" verdict against my now X-wife. She hurt me; and it HURT.
My further, deeper, wider self exam revealed this concept that is now on the foundational forefront of how I conduct my life.
Seeing as it was SHE who hurt me and she was so obviously responsible for that, AND I was relatively guilt free... AND I honestly felt hatred, legitimately, towards her for what SHE had done....
IF I really hated what she had done, and even if I hated HER....
I WAS NOT BEING TOTALLY HONEST - - WITH MYSELF.
What? How could what SHE did, and my HONEST acknowledgement of it cause ME to lack honesty?
Easy. It was because I had allowed what SHE did to CHANGE ME.
Where's the lack of honesty?
Easy. I was married to her, honestly, and in all simplicity; because
I WANTED TO BE MARRIED.
I had allowed the pain I legitimately felt behind her crimes against me to CHANGE ME. I had, at times in my youth, dreamed of being married; a fine husband and father, I WANTED to be. Now, "Well at least I have a beautiful daughter." pacified me in regards to my desire to be married again. Although I feel the pains of failure in the relationship; AND in hindsight, I probably should not have married her mother, my daughter and my joy that she is too me was so BRIGHT in my life that the resplendent glare had blinded me to cracks of darkness I was nurturing in my character.
I had hated to "lose" in the divorce. NO. She is now GONE from my life. Determined was I to pick up the pieces and move on.... After all living well is the best revenge, right? BUT.
In its simplest form, my 'new' principle is called, figuratively ;)-->.
"If I really hate the bitch, why am I allowing HER to cause ME to give up one of MY life's dreams???"
Tell me why; before I met her I wanted to be married, now that I'm away from "the bitch" I don't???? Why am I considering that I might NOT want something I obviously wanted before HER. IF I NEVER GET MARRIED again........ SHE WINS. Her hatred would banish me "forever" to the world of unwedded bliss. At first I rejected that notion because the divorce, in my mind was, piously, not about 'winning.' Honestly, the ONLY reason I changed, even to doubt, wonder or THINK about if I ever wanted to be married AGAIN was because of what SHE did. I had picked up the hatred SHE owned and ALLOWED her hatred to burn away pieces and parts of my life.
I felt that the only honest conclusion I could come up with at that point was, if asked my answer should be, "YES. Of course I would like to be married again." Why? The fact that I WAS married, honestly, declares that I DID want to be married. MY choice is whether or not I would let failure and someone else's hatred steal, kill, and destroy the desire I honestly owned. Secondarily. For as long as I wasn't married the X had an arguable claim that SHE was the cause.
I'm concerned that WE here on GS DON'T do that. Don't let whatever hatred that was VPW, is LCM and CG to burn away any part of YOUR life. Put it down. Douse the hatred with the warm waters of the Spirit that is God; the eternal fountain of LIVING waters. BE SURE, as sure as sure can be that you are not "...condemning thyself...."
I'm absolutely not a Wierwille worshipper, didn't really care much, for LCM, OR his "teachings;" never said hardly more than a casual greeting in passing to CG. My TWI experience was not all wine & roses. In fact, it almost killed me, as in DEAD, twice. Not to mention the effects of long term stress in dealing w/"wayhead." This "new principle" of mine has allowed me to honestly look at the past, prove ALL things and hold fast to the good. Their hatred, to me now, is nothing more than ashes and charred remains. Since their hatred longer effects me, I can walk through the ashes of the burnt out relationship w/TWI and pick up whatever pieces of it had enough value to survive the fire.
I understand that part of what goes on on GS is supplying the "fire" to prove all things concerning relationship w/TWI. I also understand how & why some believe TWI was far from "ministry."
What I DON'T fully understand is why some so vehemently seem to desire that all of us "throw away the baby with the bathwater." I know firsthand
as many others do, just how BAD TWI was/is. Being truly healed, truly free, really ALL THE WAY out, to me at least, allows me to retain whatever quality I was exposed to in TWI. Even if some of that quality was modeled in the three guys on the focus in this thread.
quote..."What I DON'T understand is why some so vehemently seem to desire that all of us "throw away the baby with the bathwater."
HCW..In my opinion, there was no baby in twi...only dirty bathwater. The "form" of Christianity that twi taught was bogus. I for one, encourage people to attend church if they feel so inclined and to embrace Christian values and beliefs...but on the other hand, I also encourage people to sever themselves from the entire twi "experience". If there WAS anything that was true, it will be found in most churches... who wants to sift through all that false doctrine just to find a few things that can found in most churches?...Besides, too many of twi's "teachings" use "waywords" and "waythoughts"...phrasing something a certain way, can trigger an entire twi "mindset"...I threw away the KJV of the bible that I used in twi for many years...all those "corrections", added phrases, literals according to useage, all the notes...it was not the bible anymore...it had become the "wierwille testament"...
For many people, a total severing of "everything twi" is a good idea to begin to clear the brain and begin to think for yourself again. There's just too much residual damage that was done to people...even if you found some twi teaching that was "acceptable" Christian doctrine, it would be full of "wayisms" that would jump the mind into all sorts of associations of the twi experience...The book of Timothy tells us to DEPART from them...I think that's sound advice.
Oh darn, I had a good response for you HCW and somehow lost it!!! I will try again and hope it will be as good... :(-->
Some people are at different stages of healing here at gs. One stage is anger. I don't really see 'hate' here. Just people in healing. There are others that are letting us know what happened to them so others can be healed.
I don't see a problem with that myself. Its perfectly natural and human.
Some here have christian beliefs and others don't. We have our freedom to believe what we want. If I totally dislike someone or something they did you know what? I can do it. Wow, it feels so good to be an individual. I am learning that I don't have to be nice if I don't want to.
Anyways, I'm getting off the subject here....I'm not getting after you, I just hope you understand that not all of us here are on the same page and that is ok.
Your experience is different than others, that is ok. Just realize that if a person is angry it is a natural thing for healing as you did with your exwife.
We have lots of people that come and go here. I've seen lots that have come here and 'healed' and moved on. Then some of them come back because they realize they weren't quite as healed as they thought they were. Or, as I, come here to see old friends and sometimes all of a sudden out of the blue I start putting more peices together on what really happened.
I realize people are in different stages of healing.
I'm glad you didn't feel that I was in any way supporting twi.
I attend a very fine church myself.
One of my pet peeves while "in" was that I thought that if we were really such hot dang Biblically, we should "join" as in come along side the Christian church as a whole.
Not just say things to .... them off.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just took the long way to say that IF there was somthing good in your TWI experience, its OK to hold onto THAT.
I know my TWI experience was somewhat unique. I'm also on record here that I feel complete severence from TWI is THE first step to cleansing & healing.
I totally agree that the wayspeak is a web of emotional triggers that can untimately brainwash people into taking all of the insanity twi pushes
From where I sit, some of the insanity is as unbelievable to me as it is to you that there was a "baby" to keep.
The callous way they fired me was the stray in the camel's back. Proof they really didn't care about people's actual living breathing lives. They actually didn't care if people actually DIED.
Vickles;
I really don't use wayspeak at all in my normal speaking pattern. I use it intentionally when I post, to shed a certain light, create a mood, sometimes to maybe trigger a response.
I actually believe that our involvement w/twi should be treated somewhat like a recovering alcoholic treats booze.
Those words, expressions, phrasology, etc. DO actually control people. It has evolved to where twi has an expression for most everything. Creepy.
I'm about to start a thread about a MAJOR twi incident that I am one of ONLY two people in the whole world who knows what really happened. To my knowledge at least one person is dead behind what really happened....
Stay tuned.
BTW UncleHairy. I in NO way mean to suggest that there is ANYTHING regarding TWI that is "baby" enough to justify involvement in it. Anyone involved would do well to drive away from it and never go back.
quote: I really don't use wayspeak at all in my normal speaking pattern. I use it intentionally when I post, to shed a certain light, create a mood, sometimes to maybe trigger a response.
Howard...come again????
Stop playing games Howard...just be yourself .... pllllleeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzeee -->
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Ham
"Do you, Loy, take C. as your unlawful wedded whatever.." "hisss, spit spit curse" "and do you, C. promise to have and to hold, for now and forever.." "Hiss, hisss, spit curse curse.."
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Ham
Good grief.. at least you must admit that they deserved each other..
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Ham
But they wouldn't need to dredge up anybody else for the wedding party. Already have "best men" and "maids of honor" (Don't think ole Rosie could quite qualify as a maid though..)
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Ham
Be patient- whatever I got into this morning will eventually wear off..
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Ham
Wouldn't make much more of a messed up situation than some families I have heard of.
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Ham
"The spirit" of Saint Vic could officiate.
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jardinero
Oh God, Hammie, you didn't do the double espresso again this morning, did you???
J.
;)-->
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Ham
Heh heh heh.. naw, just two and a half cups of the "regular" stuff..
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Ham
I think it's a conspiracy. The coffee people watch to see when I'm coming. Put a little extra something in there..
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A la prochaine
Dear Hammie,
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I'm on the floor laughing my foot off!
CG/LCM vs rodent Phil. (I think that's his name if I remember correctly from Groundhog Day)
Whatever brand of coffee you are drinking, don't stop. You could possibly have a career as a stand-up (or cyber-stand-up)comedian.
thank you
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Ham
Thanks for the encouragement Ala. I don't know if you've ever seen "celebrity death match", blood and guts claymation. That would be perfect: "tonight, Loy vs. Phil". Loy wouldn't stand a chance..
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A la prochaine
Hahahahahahahhahahahahaahhahahahahahaha!!!
Yes I think I've seen it.
What a wonderful mind picture!
You've made my Groundhog day!
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George Aar
Once you've gotten a bit more removed from WayWorld and it's mindset, it's amazing to consider what was really going on.
Here's several demented "alpha-males" stalking around, ....ing on everything to mark their territory.
And then, there's the obligatory contest of who's got the biggest dick. "Hisssss, Craig's got a little weenie, but look how big MINE is! sssss"
It'd be really interesting to see what a behavioral psychologist would make of all of this...
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Ham
Makes sense. And the underlings in the social structure will bite your head off for not observing protocol.
Sometimes, I think having a sense of humor can be the best revenge..
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A la prochaine
Mr. Hammie,
Touch?BR>
That reminds me of an incident where someone told me about a time some stupid thick headed leader ranted on and on and on about something they thought was off that this person had done.
After this leader was done, the person who was being reproved burst out into laughter. Couldn't contain themselves. They thought the whole thing was absolutely ridiculous.
The reprover was completely disarmed. They tried to show how 'unspiritual' this person was but it didn't go anywhere. They pretty much walked away having no effect.
With humour, you can often render the power struggle ineffective. I use this in the classroom everyday. It works.
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JustThinking
Maybe Craig should have been in the movie Groundhog Day? He wakes every day and it's the ROA and he has to go through POP again and again and again until he becomes a decent human being? Seems like he deserves it more than Bill Murray's character. Although I'm not sure that town in PA deserves to live through that.
(Anyone know how to spell the town where the groundhog shows up? I can say it but the spelling is a challenge)
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skyrider
Punxsutawney
The legend of Groundhog Day is based on an old Scottish couplet: "If Candlemas Day is bright and clear, there'll be two winters in the year."
Every February 2, people gather at Gobbler's Knob, a wooded knoll just outside of Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania.
Residents contend that the groundhog has never been wrong.
The ceremony in Punxsutawney was held in secret until 1966, and only Phil's prediction was revealed to the public. Since then, Phil's fearless forecast has been a national media event.
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A la prochaine
JT,
Great idea...i'd pay to see that on film!
:)-->
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HCW
Of course VPW saw the conflict & potential clash of egos between LCM/CG. It was inevitable. However, the BIGGEST problem I saw w/POP was that the indiscretions, the allegations against LCM & the trustees were NOT handled according to the Bible. The biggest thing I got from POP was that there were malcontents on the staff @ HQ who were trying to "do it right." I felt I was one of the "malcontents." Here we malcontents were "fighting for the Word" at HQ and CG comes riding in on his high horse saying they are doing S#$t but I'm not gonna tell you what it is.
I left the WOW Auditorium that night thinking something like. "That was Chris being Chris." I was ....ed because I felt that if he was gonna tell us OF the crap he should have brought two or three witnesses who would tell us THE CRAP, itself. I felt CG's neglect to tell us WHAT they (the BOT) did was a power play on his part; ....ed me right off. I felt the BOT's response seemed somehow rehearsed. (If they had never heard of it before HOW could the say "It's all true?" I felt a more honest response would be something like, "We'll consider this and make a formal response by such and such a date." To this day I have not listened to an entire tape from his ministry. Had no desire to go to Gartmore, my desire was to run to GOD-more. (Hey, that one just fell out of the sky...
.)
At Corps week a year later when CG said the BOT was trying to kill such and such a person. I felt decorum demanded that person X should have said, "THEY tried to kill ME, in this way." Then have the law haul their asses away in handcuffs. Attempted murder is still a crime, isn't it?
History teaches us POWER CORRUPTS; and ABSOLUTE POWER corrupts ABSOLUTELY. We, the rank & file human beings, most times interpret that to say...
"Power corrupts SOME people, SOME of the time and absolute power ABSOLUTELY HAS corrupted some people ABSOLUTELY." BIG difference.
The division between "them & us" seems to be an eternal thread on the tapestry of society since society began. Them, the "leadership" & us the people; or rank & file. We, the PEOPLE neglect to acknowledge the absolute simplicity of ...
POWER CORRUPTS. It is the NATURE of power to corrupt human beings.
Power corrupts EVERYONE, all of the time. The more power one has, the closer they come to the ABSOLUTE CORRUPTION that absolute power absolutely brings to any ONE who absolutely has ALL of the power. We sit here and eloquently tap out the tidings of three "power"-full people. (Yeah they were "full of it" all right [saved you the trouble
]!!!!!) No one would argue, as it seems indisputable, that there is corruption in that camp. Corruption directly related to that whole "quest for power" thing.
My take on the whole thing is "...the love of money is the ROOT of ALL evil." When all the "schick" hit the fan TWI was a $22 million per year corporation where one could, many times, get an executive or higher level position with few to none of the professional requirements as part of their actual resume. Even the lower level positions were coveted. Regardless of your feelings about CG or POP the document had, as Linda Z wrote, some relevance. There were, as POP says "little kingdoms" all over HQ & around the country.
Little kingdoms where "Power Corrupts." There were those who wanted it all or at least their pieces of it; a kingdom. The power struggle for TWI started way back in the sixties when they began seeing the fruit of some type of success. We've heard the stories, VPW's "coup," etc.
There is value to posting here, but I'm concerned about some of what I read. Not for whatever legacy VPW, et al. may have left but my concern is for you, me & US today. Last night, somebody asked me something to the effect of what I thought of people's axe grinding here on GS. I felt like posting my answer here:
"I think that some people with some legitimate gripes take them way too far."
Regardless of what you or I may feel of LCM, VPW or CG, they are or were what they are/were. Biblically speaking, looking back on past wrongs has little value outside of providing "patience and comfort" leading to "hope." Endless axe grinding, arguably, and grudge carrying, certainly, grinds THE GRINDER and burdens with the weight of the grudge, THE CARRIER.
As we examine any of 'them' we must additionally examine ourselves. Again the Bible warns that "you who pass judgement on someone else.. at whatever point you judge the other you are condemning YOURSELF, because you who pass judgement do the same things."
What? Who ME? No, not I. My concern is that I think I MAY be seeing some who are condemning themselves by their view of past actions of others. Oh. I didn't do THAT, a person may say; and so easily dismiss GOD's truth from their lives. Such dismissal itself is sin in and of itself. Sin is sin is sin, although some actions carry longer term and even much greater consequences than others. "Victimless" sin is sin against self.
One thing I learned from my first divorce (you'da though I learned enough!
-->) when I was rightfully indignant about my wife's OBVIOUS indisputable crimes against me. I hated and felt justified, and anyone who knew of said crimes was equally indignant and full of dislike for both her and the things she did to me.
The one thing I eventually, finally, learned hit me when, after years of sucessfully distancing myself from the events and subsequent pain AND even most of the consequences, somebody asked me, "Do you think you'll marry again?" The thing that hit me actually had little to do with my answer to the question. What hit me was that I didn't immediately say, "Yes, of course I will." Period.
Huh?
What hit me then was this:
I hadn't reached a gut level, life or death, level one honesty place with myself yet. Especially so as it pertained to that particular subject. I was stuck on the legitimate hatred that resulted in the unanimous "GUILTY" verdict against my now X-wife. She hurt me; and it HURT.
My further, deeper, wider self exam revealed this concept that is now on the foundational forefront of how I conduct my life.
Seeing as it was SHE who hurt me and she was so obviously responsible for that, AND I was relatively guilt free... AND I honestly felt hatred, legitimately, towards her for what SHE had done....
IF I really hated what she had done, and even if I hated HER....
I WAS NOT BEING TOTALLY HONEST - - WITH MYSELF.
What? How could what SHE did, and my HONEST acknowledgement of it cause ME to lack honesty?
Easy. It was because I had allowed what SHE did to CHANGE ME.
Where's the lack of honesty?
Easy. I was married to her, honestly, and in all simplicity; because
I WANTED TO BE MARRIED.
I had allowed the pain I legitimately felt behind her crimes against me to CHANGE ME. I had, at times in my youth, dreamed of being married; a fine husband and father, I WANTED to be. Now, "Well at least I have a beautiful daughter." pacified me in regards to my desire to be married again. Although I feel the pains of failure in the relationship; AND in hindsight, I probably should not have married her mother, my daughter and my joy that she is too me was so BRIGHT in my life that the resplendent glare had blinded me to cracks of darkness I was nurturing in my character.
I had hated to "lose" in the divorce. NO. She is now GONE from my life. Determined was I to pick up the pieces and move on.... After all living well is the best revenge, right? BUT.
In its simplest form, my 'new' principle is called, figuratively
;)-->.
"If I really hate the bitch, why am I allowing HER to cause ME to give up one of MY life's dreams???"
Tell me why; before I met her I wanted to be married, now that I'm away from "the bitch" I don't???? Why am I considering that I might NOT want something I obviously wanted before HER. IF I NEVER GET MARRIED again........ SHE WINS. Her hatred would banish me "forever" to the world of unwedded bliss. At first I rejected that notion because the divorce, in my mind was, piously, not about 'winning.' Honestly, the ONLY reason I changed, even to doubt, wonder or THINK about if I ever wanted to be married AGAIN was because of what SHE did. I had picked up the hatred SHE owned and ALLOWED her hatred to burn away pieces and parts of my life.
I felt that the only honest conclusion I could come up with at that point was, if asked my answer should be, "YES. Of course I would like to be married again." Why? The fact that I WAS married, honestly, declares that I DID want to be married. MY choice is whether or not I would let failure and someone else's hatred steal, kill, and destroy the desire I honestly owned. Secondarily. For as long as I wasn't married the X had an arguable claim that SHE was the cause.
I'm concerned that WE here on GS DON'T do that. Don't let whatever hatred that was VPW, is LCM and CG to burn away any part of YOUR life. Put it down. Douse the hatred with the warm waters of the Spirit that is God; the eternal fountain of LIVING waters. BE SURE, as sure as sure can be that you are not "...condemning thyself...."
I'm absolutely not a Wierwille worshipper, didn't really care much, for LCM, OR his "teachings;" never said hardly more than a casual greeting in passing to CG. My TWI experience was not all wine & roses. In fact, it almost killed me, as in DEAD, twice. Not to mention the effects of long term stress in dealing w/"wayhead." This "new principle" of mine has allowed me to honestly look at the past, prove ALL things and hold fast to the good. Their hatred, to me now, is nothing more than ashes and charred remains. Since their hatred longer effects me, I can walk through the ashes of the burnt out relationship w/TWI and pick up whatever pieces of it had enough value to survive the fire.
I understand that part of what goes on on GS is supplying the "fire" to prove all things concerning relationship w/TWI. I also understand how & why some believe TWI was far from "ministry."
What I DON'T fully understand is why some so vehemently seem to desire that all of us "throw away the baby with the bathwater." I know firsthand
as many others do, just how BAD TWI was/is. Being truly healed, truly free, really ALL THE WAY out, to me at least, allows me to retain whatever quality I was exposed to in TWI. Even if some of that quality was modeled in the three guys on the focus in this thread.
"Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful."
OR.
"Don't slap me. 'cause I'm not in the mood."
Whichever works!
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GrouchoMarxJr
quote..."What I DON'T understand is why some so vehemently seem to desire that all of us "throw away the baby with the bathwater."
HCW..In my opinion, there was no baby in twi...only dirty bathwater. The "form" of Christianity that twi taught was bogus. I for one, encourage people to attend church if they feel so inclined and to embrace Christian values and beliefs...but on the other hand, I also encourage people to sever themselves from the entire twi "experience". If there WAS anything that was true, it will be found in most churches... who wants to sift through all that false doctrine just to find a few things that can found in most churches?...Besides, too many of twi's "teachings" use "waywords" and "waythoughts"...phrasing something a certain way, can trigger an entire twi "mindset"...I threw away the KJV of the bible that I used in twi for many years...all those "corrections", added phrases, literals according to useage, all the notes...it was not the bible anymore...it had become the "wierwille testament"...
For many people, a total severing of "everything twi" is a good idea to begin to clear the brain and begin to think for yourself again. There's just too much residual damage that was done to people...even if you found some twi teaching that was "acceptable" Christian doctrine, it would be full of "wayisms" that would jump the mind into all sorts of associations of the twi experience...The book of Timothy tells us to DEPART from them...I think that's sound advice.
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vickles
Oh darn, I had a good response for you HCW and somehow lost it!!! I will try again and hope it will be as good...
:(-->
Some people are at different stages of healing here at gs. One stage is anger. I don't really see 'hate' here. Just people in healing. There are others that are letting us know what happened to them so others can be healed.
I don't see a problem with that myself. Its perfectly natural and human.
Some here have christian beliefs and others don't. We have our freedom to believe what we want. If I totally dislike someone or something they did you know what? I can do it. Wow, it feels so good to be an individual. I am learning that I don't have to be nice if I don't want to.
Anyways, I'm getting off the subject here....I'm not getting after you, I just hope you understand that not all of us here are on the same page and that is ok.
Your experience is different than others, that is ok. Just realize that if a person is angry it is a natural thing for healing as you did with your exwife.
We have lots of people that come and go here. I've seen lots that have come here and 'healed' and moved on. Then some of them come back because they realize they weren't quite as healed as they thought they were. Or, as I, come here to see old friends and sometimes all of a sudden out of the blue I start putting more peices together on what really happened.
So, HCW, don't despair its really ok...
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vickles
I hate to say this but the bathwater thing sounds so cliche of twi. Do I really have to have a bathwater?....
:P-->
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HCW
I realize people are in different stages of healing.
I'm glad you didn't feel that I was in any way supporting twi.
I attend a very fine church myself.
One of my pet peeves while "in" was that I thought that if we were really such hot dang Biblically, we should "join" as in come along side the Christian church as a whole.
Not just say things to .... them off.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just took the long way to say that IF there was somthing good in your TWI experience, its OK to hold onto THAT.
I know my TWI experience was somewhat unique. I'm also on record here that I feel complete severence from TWI is THE first step to cleansing & healing.
I totally agree that the wayspeak is a web of emotional triggers that can untimately brainwash people into taking all of the insanity twi pushes
From where I sit, some of the insanity is as unbelievable to me as it is to you that there was a "baby" to keep.
The callous way they fired me was the stray in the camel's back. Proof they really didn't care about people's actual living breathing lives. They actually didn't care if people actually DIED.
Vickles;
I really don't use wayspeak at all in my normal speaking pattern. I use it intentionally when I post, to shed a certain light, create a mood, sometimes to maybe trigger a response.
I actually believe that our involvement w/twi should be treated somewhat like a recovering alcoholic treats booze.
Those words, expressions, phrasology, etc. DO actually control people. It has evolved to where twi has an expression for most everything. Creepy.
I'm about to start a thread about a MAJOR twi incident that I am one of ONLY two people in the whole world who knows what really happened. To my knowledge at least one person is dead behind what really happened....
Stay tuned.
BTW UncleHairy. I in NO way mean to suggest that there is ANYTHING regarding TWI that is "baby" enough to justify involvement in it. Anyone involved would do well to drive away from it and never go back.
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A la prochaine
Howard...come again????
Stop playing games Howard...just be yourself .... pllllleeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzeee
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