I have it too. I'll never forget it. All it did was drive us into the dirt, lay a tremendous guilt trip on us. But of course at the time I bought it.
I really don't want to ever listen to it again, thank you.
To sum it up, CGeer told the Corps "You're all f'd up except for me and I'm telling you how to get un f'd up."
I think CGeer's greatest moment of glory came when he held us spellbound that Corps Wk '86 when he read Passing of the Patriarch.
As we were wallking out of the tent he yelled, "Your lives are in danger!"
Wordwolf, if I may, the tape was sent all the Way Corps from Chris Geer after Corps Wk and ROA '86. That was the Corps Wk when we were all shocked and numbed by POP and the realization that all was definitely not well with TWI.
Geer's appeal is classic. The adversary played a "good cop, bad cop" routine on leadership.
Because they all, including Geer, failed to master the writings the adversary had them over a barrel. Geer had a reputation of having worked all of Dr's tapes, while no one in upper management took the writings all that seriously, and felt they had long since graduated from the need to open the books much.
From Craig's installation on, and even before too, he became the bad cop, loud and tough.
After Craig officially antagonizing many in leadership for well over 2 years, Geer came along with credentials nearly equaling Craig's via Dr's final visit and Ralph's confirmation of some of the details.
Geer was the good cop with a calm voice and the promise of solutions. Many leaders sick of Craig fell for Geer's "sincerity."
Some of his converts in later years saw his lack of answers (and his false answers like "no hard foreknowledge" in God) and slowly distanced themselves as much as they could. Admitting that they made ANOTHER mistake would be fatal to their followings, though, so the distancing is still very slow and very quiet.
I knew Chris Geer in Rye a little bit, though mostly from a distance, and thought he was intellectual and helpful. He personally helped me tremendously two times. He was a bit cold, but so were a lot of otherwise good people. I liked him then, and later I even liked his WIGP class, until his final session bombed. Later still I saw more flaws in it. I also saw that his monotone college professor teaching style put many to sleep, even though I somewhat liked it for it's information intensity.
I too saw as time passed into the mid 90's that he had no solutions and did cause a lot of trouble. However I don't see him as the epitome of evil at all. I see him being a sucker for some very powerful spirits, but I pray for his recovery, just like I pray for all grads, even TWI grads, and even Craig.
quote:For the life of me I can not understand why anyone would hold ANY respect for him nevertheless send him a dime for anything.
John, speaking as someone who used to GO to the splinter groups, they do it because THEY DON'T KNOW cg or anything about him, the real him. They only know what the splinter "mogs" tell them about him. You see, the mogs need his class and he, cg, needs 1/10th of their abs, so there you have it.
quote:Because they all, including Geer, failed to master the writings the adversary had them over a barrel. Geer had a reputation of having worked all of Dr's tapes, while no one in upper management took the writings all that seriously, and felt they had long since graduated from the need to open the books much.
Mike, I know this is your answer for everything, but life isn't that simple.
And if Geer "took the writings all that seriously" and "worked" all those tapes, what happened to him? Seems to me he'd be the poster boy for the approach to life you're advocating.
Here's a flaw I see in your reasoning:
God knew, from before the foundations of the earth, that not every person who would believe on Him would be a book-learnin' scholarly type. I don't believe God envisioned that the only way people could get to know Him was in having their noses buried in the pages of some weighty tome 12-14 hours a day.
The key messages in the Bible, IMO, are easily grasped without extensive study (I'm not saying don't study...just saying many important points don't require a concordance or a Greek lexicon: love one another, be kind, be tenderhearted, don't steal, etc.
While I value the Bible for what it contains, I would contend that God's Word is not limited to a book--and surely not to a bunch of books a man has written, no matter how good they are, about HIS book.
I do NOT think Geer "took the writings all that seriously."
I was focused on upper management only here, and them NOT mastering the books.
I included Geer in upper managemant. He worked ONLY the tapes in my estimation.
He is an example of someone who does NOT really master the books, only the tapes and their style. The fact that he advocates no hard foreknowledge in God flies in the face of what is written in many of the books.
There are other points in your post I'd like to discuss, but will invite yo to the Doctrinal forum, to avoid de-railing here.
And regards the "mastering" of the tremendous "truths" of piffle.
Gaaaaawwd, are you ever gonna get over the
"secret decoder ring" approach to life?
Would an all-loving, all-knowing, omnipresent God really want to make life revolve around the anal-retentive disecting of arcane passages of scripture and then the endless surmising and speculating as to their "real" meaning? Even if it was the truth, I ain't going to church with you, pal. No thanks...
As I recall after the "....ed off patriarch show" that night, some of us went back to our hotel room and analyzed it (over much beer, wine and pretzels). :D-->
It took us about 5 minutes to realize it was such BS, embellished with Geerisms throughout. Most of it was about him and his deeds, written in the first person, unsigned, not on video, not VPW's words at all, as it did not even fit with the way he spoke.
Talk about a cult mentality! Some people are so easily persuaded, just because someone in authority says it. Dumbasses.
However, we also knew TWI was fuXXked, because of soooo many who fell for it sooo easily, hook line and sinker including top dawgs. Divison city! The beginning of painful splinters a plenty.
Let the scheming, conniving, and survival mode begin! How can I get my share of the scattered pot of gold? Er... I mean.... How can I keep teaching and moving God's word, and helping people operate the principle of abundant sharing with out having to send it in to the corrupt HQ? I know... we'll have a meeting. We'll remain faithful to the Word in spite of it all...., and I'll remain the leader.... Yeah, that's the ticket!
To this day some are living off the scattered REMAINS of that splintering effect. I say they need to get a real job instead of pretending to have one.
Some of us after that wacky weekend, however, just went home and went back to work on Monday as usual, albeit with a bit of a hangover from partying so much with friends.
Well, I may have been a dumbass (I've been called worse) , but despite the fact that I didn't like Chris G much and that half of POP was a pity party for how hard he had to work because no one else could do anything right (so typical of CG), some of the things he said rang true for me. They confirmed a lot of what I'd seen at HQ for the previous 4 years.
John, I might be reading into what you've said here ("However, we also knew TWI was fuXXked, because of soooo many who fell for it sooo easily...."), but it almost seems like you think that twi fell apart because of those of us who "abandoned ship" after POP. I disagree. I think it was already fuksilated long before that.
Regardless of CG's motives (and I don't think they were pure, by any means), I'm glad I heard POP when I did. I stuck around for 3 more years, foolishly thinking I could help fix "our" ministry, but despite its flaws, POP at least made me think I wasn't crazy when I'd thought HQ wasn't the mecca I'd thought and that twi wasn't a perfect organization. So yeah, I stuck around, but I had my guard up. When it seemed to me that nothing was going to fix twi, I left.
I agree, though, about the race to grab followers starting in the late 80s. The tapes and transcripts and letters were flying like feathers on chicken-killin' day. It got to where I didn't want to see any of my fellow ex-wayfers, because they were always saying, "You have to listen to this tape!" "Rev. so-and-so changed my life!" I needed a break from all that, and I took it. It's still going on. :D-->
1. Evil as Geer was/is (yes, I think the word "evil" is apt), he did Der Veg a tremendous service by splitting it down the midsection so the guts could spill out all over the place. THAT was long overdue. It gave occasion for thousands to extricate themselves from bondage.
2. I agree with Mike that the upper echelon did not hold Wierwille's books in high esteem. They, like he, had become irrelevant. They knew what an unprincipled conniving cad he was. This was projected onto what he produed. Quite properly, I think.
Linda, you are not a dumbass! No way. Ha. I find my self being one, however, on a regular basis.
When I wrote that I was thinking of those top leaders like LCM, Region coordinators, Limb Cooordinators, Don, Howard, etc.
How they all fell for it so easily!
Those of us in the lower ranks are not to be blamed as I see it. We wanted to help but were caught in the middle of a power struggle, worse than a nasty divorce.
I sat through an intermediate class that he ran in his home at Natick, Ma around '74 or '75. He seemed a little cold and authoritative, but not evil. Wonder what happened?
I sat thru 3 weeks of Advanced class, scrutinizing cg whenever he was visible,
looking intently for signs of problems. I didn't find any, and he seemed both
well-balanced and mentally healthy. Frankly, that's better than I seemed for that
same time-frame.
Mind you, I dont think anyone else's experiences-surreal and odd though they are-
are in any way invented or exaggerated. I simply didn't see them. As has been
pointed out, John Wayne Gacy wore a clown suit and played children's parties
before he became a serial killer. I'm sure the people at those parties would have
been shocked as well.
No-I can't explain it either. It seems so strange. Of course, there it is, and my
INability to account for reality doesn't change reality any.
===
Outandabout,
thanks for explaining what was ON the tapes (and when it was sent.) I was still
quote: Evil as Geer was/is (yes, I think the word "evil" is apt), he did Der Veg a tremendous service by splitting it down the midsection so the guts could spill out all over the place. THAT was long overdue. It gave occasion for thousands to extricate themselves from bondage.
Evan.....yeah, sort of.
When cgeer "pulled the curtain" in 1986.......he only pulled the curtain PART WAY. Standing center stage, exposed for all to see, were craig, don and howard.......just as cgeer had planned.
NOTHING on vp's shortcomings.....NOTHING on adultery.....NOTHING on vp's structuring twi for unaccountability.......NOTHING on solid solutions.
Almost TWO DECADES have passed and the wierwille worshipping continues.....and geerite groups became the beneficiaries. Some could easily discount cgeer's actions as "a tremendous service"..... and I would be among them.
Cgeer pulled back the curtain far enough.....just to give the impression that we could see what lies behind. Cgeer and the incriminating legacy of vpw were standing stage left still behind the curtain.
WAYDALE and GREASESPOT........has truly exposed the underbelly of twi.
I believe CG has a very sadistic mean streak. I saw him verbally devastate a young woman from Europe during corps week at HQ one year. She had had a bit too much to drink one evening, as they had been celebrating another European believer's wedding. The party, after the wedding went to a local St. Mary's watering hole that evening. She was pretty plastered and didn't want to leave the place so they just left her at this bar.
I was out that night at the same bar, and waited until closing to bring her home to H.Q. I was not going to leave her with the townies leering at her. I don't know who told on her - probably some of the wedding party people who left her, but PL and I were told the next day to be in the courtyard of VP's house the next morning.
I went there clueless, and there she was with CG, her leader, and PL, the corps coordinator at that time. Well, first CG yelled, then lowered his voice and hissed saying awful, sick, destructive stuff about this woman. The thing was though, usually, people calm down after a few minutes, but he ended up going on and on and on, and literally hissing at her for almost 45 minutes. I started wondering, what the heck is going on here? All of a sudden it dawned on me, he is enjoying this!!
I watched in horrified fascination. I have never, in all my years in TWI, seen someone as verbally torn down as this woman was - it was evil, just plain evil. Even PL was mortified - and she's hard to do that to.
After it was over, the woman went away in tears and PL took me aside and said, go talk to her. I looked at her incredulously and said, what could anyone possibly say to her. She told me to go talk, then send her over to PL at noon.
I spent the morning with her, got her back to some semblance of normalcy, then PL took over. They became great friends.
Anyway, I was glad I never had to serve under him, and was glad God let me see the sick side of him about a year before POP.
I got in TWI in Rye when he did, and he was my limb leader in college. He was always cold, unfriendly and aloof. Why did he get worse? Well, it was always in him, it just took a mentor to bring it out.
I always think of a hissing snake when I think of him.
i was absolutely STUNNED SHOCKED SPEECHLESS when i witnessed the way veepee spoke (that's not the word, i don't know what word to use) to geer's wife when she was helping the 2 of them deliver puppies
i could not believe he would allow it. it was shameful, horrible, unbelievable. veepee talked to her like she was lower than a dog and her husband did absolutely nothing - didn't even notice
and let me tell you, i grew up around horrid verbal abuse. i didn't think anything could shock me
quote:...I were told the next day to be in the courtyard of VP's house the next morning.
I went there clueless, and there she was with CG, her leader, and PL, the corps coordinator at that time. Well, first CG yelled, then lowered his voice and hissed saying awful, sick, destructive stuff about this woman. The thing was though, usually, people calm down after a few minutes, but he ended up going on and on and on, and literally hissing at her for almost 45 minutes. I started wondering, what the heck is going on here? All of a sudden it dawned on me, he is enjoying this!!
....in veepee's courtyard!!.....cgeer hissing at her....
....ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. [Matt 23:15]
"When cgeer "pulled the curtain" in 1986.......he only pulled the curtain PART WAY. Standing center stage, exposed for all to see, were craig, don and howard.......just as cgeer had planned."
It's a testament to Craigs lack of brainpower to allow that to have happened. He was humiliated in front of the entire corps. It was surreal. And, yes, Geer was enjoying himself.
Hey, the big holiday is coming.. just two days away. I find it hilarious that Punxatawney Phil has more publicity and a place in history than either of the two idiots we are talking about combined.
Poor ole Loy and his "friend" will not even make an ink stain in the encyclopedia. Nada- nothing, zilch. Only publicity he can get is from the occasional beating from lawyers. Must be bolstering to the ego to have a marmot beat you out in popularity.
Just another thought.. from what I read here, Loy and CG would be a match made "in heaven". Maybe Rosie, Donna and the pair should consider a double wedding. If there is a hell, that is probably it.
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outandabout
I have it too. I'll never forget it. All it did was drive us into the dirt, lay a tremendous guilt trip on us. But of course at the time I bought it.
I really don't want to ever listen to it again, thank you.
To sum it up, CGeer told the Corps "You're all f'd up except for me and I'm telling you how to get un f'd up."
I think CGeer's greatest moment of glory came when he held us spellbound that Corps Wk '86 when he read Passing of the Patriarch.
As we were wallking out of the tent he yelled, "Your lives are in danger!"
Wordwolf, if I may, the tape was sent all the Way Corps from Chris Geer after Corps Wk and ROA '86. That was the Corps Wk when we were all shocked and numbed by POP and the realization that all was definitely not well with TWI.
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Mike
TOMMY Z,
Geer's appeal is classic. The adversary played a "good cop, bad cop" routine on leadership.
Because they all, including Geer, failed to master the writings the adversary had them over a barrel. Geer had a reputation of having worked all of Dr's tapes, while no one in upper management took the writings all that seriously, and felt they had long since graduated from the need to open the books much.
From Craig's installation on, and even before too, he became the bad cop, loud and tough.
After Craig officially antagonizing many in leadership for well over 2 years, Geer came along with credentials nearly equaling Craig's via Dr's final visit and Ralph's confirmation of some of the details.
Geer was the good cop with a calm voice and the promise of solutions. Many leaders sick of Craig fell for Geer's "sincerity."
Some of his converts in later years saw his lack of answers (and his false answers like "no hard foreknowledge" in God) and slowly distanced themselves as much as they could. Admitting that they made ANOTHER mistake would be fatal to their followings, though, so the distancing is still very slow and very quiet.
I knew Chris Geer in Rye a little bit, though mostly from a distance, and thought he was intellectual and helpful. He personally helped me tremendously two times. He was a bit cold, but so were a lot of otherwise good people. I liked him then, and later I even liked his WIGP class, until his final session bombed. Later still I saw more flaws in it. I also saw that his monotone college professor teaching style put many to sleep, even though I somewhat liked it for it's information intensity.
I too saw as time passed into the mid 90's that he had no solutions and did cause a lot of trouble. However I don't see him as the epitome of evil at all. I see him being a sucker for some very powerful spirits, but I pray for his recovery, just like I pray for all grads, even TWI grads, and even Craig.
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waterbuffalo
John, speaking as someone who used to GO to the splinter groups, they do it because THEY DON'T KNOW cg or anything about him, the real him. They only know what the splinter "mogs" tell them about him. You see, the mogs need his class and he, cg, needs 1/10th of their abs, so there you have it.
It's a mutually exclusive using-each-other club.
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Linda Z
Mike said:
Mike, I know this is your answer for everything, but life isn't that simple.
And if Geer "took the writings all that seriously" and "worked" all those tapes, what happened to him? Seems to me he'd be the poster boy for the approach to life you're advocating.
Here's a flaw I see in your reasoning:
God knew, from before the foundations of the earth, that not every person who would believe on Him would be a book-learnin' scholarly type. I don't believe God envisioned that the only way people could get to know Him was in having their noses buried in the pages of some weighty tome 12-14 hours a day.
The key messages in the Bible, IMO, are easily grasped without extensive study (I'm not saying don't study...just saying many important points don't require a concordance or a Greek lexicon: love one another, be kind, be tenderhearted, don't steal, etc.
While I value the Bible for what it contains, I would contend that God's Word is not limited to a book--and surely not to a bunch of books a man has written, no matter how good they are, about HIS book.
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Mike
Linda Z,
I think we miscommunicated on a key point.
I do NOT think Geer "took the writings all that seriously."
I was focused on upper management only here, and them NOT mastering the books.
I included Geer in upper managemant. He worked ONLY the tapes in my estimation.
He is an example of someone who does NOT really master the books, only the tapes and their style. The fact that he advocates no hard foreknowledge in God flies in the face of what is written in many of the books.
There are other points in your post I'd like to discuss, but will invite yo to the Doctrinal forum, to avoid de-railing here.
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Linda Z
Thanks for the clarification, Mike. And thanks for the invite, but I don't debate doctrine, so I seldom even lurk in the Doctrinal forum.
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waterbuffalo
oh gawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwd, Mike.
-->
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excathedra
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George Aar
Excie,
Memories! tee hee
And regards the "mastering" of the tremendous "truths" of piffle.
Gaaaaawwd, are you ever gonna get over the
"secret decoder ring" approach to life?
Would an all-loving, all-knowing, omnipresent God really want to make life revolve around the anal-retentive disecting of arcane passages of scripture and then the endless surmising and speculating as to their "real" meaning? Even if it was the truth, I ain't going to church with you, pal. No thanks...
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igotout
Excathedra,
As I recall after the "....ed off patriarch show" that night, some of us went back to our hotel room and analyzed it (over much beer, wine and pretzels).
:D-->
It took us about 5 minutes to realize it was such BS, embellished with Geerisms throughout. Most of it was about him and his deeds, written in the first person, unsigned, not on video, not VPW's words at all, as it did not even fit with the way he spoke.
Talk about a cult mentality! Some people are so easily persuaded, just because someone in authority says it. Dumbasses.
However, we also knew TWI was fuXXked, because of soooo many who fell for it sooo easily, hook line and sinker including top dawgs. Divison city! The beginning of painful splinters a plenty.
Let the scheming, conniving, and survival mode begin! How can I get my share of the scattered pot of gold? Er... I mean.... How can I keep teaching and moving God's word, and helping people operate the principle of abundant sharing with out having to send it in to the corrupt HQ? I know... we'll have a meeting. We'll remain faithful to the Word in spite of it all...., and I'll remain the leader.... Yeah, that's the ticket!
To this day some are living off the scattered REMAINS of that splintering effect. I say they need to get a real job instead of pretending to have one.
Some of us after that wacky weekend, however, just went home and went back to work on Monday as usual, albeit with a bit of a hangover from partying so much with friends.
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Linda Z
Well, I may have been a dumbass (I've been called worse)
, but despite the fact that I didn't like Chris G much and that half of POP was a pity party for how hard he had to work because no one else could do anything right (so typical of CG), some of the things he said rang true for me. They confirmed a lot of what I'd seen at HQ for the previous 4 years.
John, I might be reading into what you've said here ("However, we also knew TWI was fuXXked, because of soooo many who fell for it sooo easily...."), but it almost seems like you think that twi fell apart because of those of us who "abandoned ship" after POP. I disagree. I think it was already fuksilated long before that.
Regardless of CG's motives (and I don't think they were pure, by any means), I'm glad I heard POP when I did. I stuck around for 3 more years, foolishly thinking I could help fix "our" ministry, but despite its flaws, POP at least made me think I wasn't crazy when I'd thought HQ wasn't the mecca I'd thought and that twi wasn't a perfect organization. So yeah, I stuck around, but I had my guard up. When it seemed to me that nothing was going to fix twi, I left.
I agree, though, about the race to grab followers starting in the late 80s. The tapes and transcripts and letters were flying like feathers on chicken-killin' day. It got to where I didn't want to see any of my fellow ex-wayfers, because they were always saying, "You have to listen to this tape!" "Rev. so-and-so changed my life!" I needed a break from all that, and I took it. It's still going on.
:D-->
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TheEvan
1. Evil as Geer was/is (yes, I think the word "evil" is apt), he did Der Veg a tremendous service by splitting it down the midsection so the guts could spill out all over the place. THAT was long overdue. It gave occasion for thousands to extricate themselves from bondage.
2. I agree with Mike that the upper echelon did not hold Wierwille's books in high esteem. They, like he, had become irrelevant. They knew what an unprincipled conniving cad he was. This was projected onto what he produed. Quite properly, I think.
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igotout
I agree he did TWI a service, Evan.
Linda, you are not a dumbass! No way. Ha. I find my self being one, however, on a regular basis.
When I wrote that I was thinking of those top leaders like LCM, Region coordinators, Limb Cooordinators, Don, Howard, etc.
How they all fell for it so easily!
Those of us in the lower ranks are not to be blamed as I see it. We wanted to help but were caught in the middle of a power struggle, worse than a nasty divorce.
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WordWolf
I sat thru 3 weeks of Advanced class, scrutinizing cg whenever he was visible,
looking intently for signs of problems. I didn't find any, and he seemed both
well-balanced and mentally healthy. Frankly, that's better than I seemed for that
same time-frame.
Mind you, I dont think anyone else's experiences-surreal and odd though they are-
are in any way invented or exaggerated. I simply didn't see them. As has been
pointed out, John Wayne Gacy wore a clown suit and played children's parties
before he became a serial killer. I'm sure the people at those parties would have
been shocked as well.
No-I can't explain it either. It seems so strange. Of course, there it is, and my
INability to account for reality doesn't change reality any.
===
Outandabout,
thanks for explaining what was ON the tapes (and when it was sent.) I was still
wondering.
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skyrider
Evan.....yeah, sort of.
When cgeer "pulled the curtain" in 1986.......he only pulled the curtain PART WAY. Standing center stage, exposed for all to see, were craig, don and howard.......just as cgeer had planned.
NOTHING on vp's shortcomings.....NOTHING on adultery.....NOTHING on vp's structuring twi for unaccountability.......NOTHING on solid solutions.
Almost TWO DECADES have passed and the wierwille worshipping continues.....and geerite groups became the beneficiaries. Some could easily discount cgeer's actions as "a tremendous service"..... and I would be among them.
Cgeer pulled back the curtain far enough.....just to give the impression that we could see what lies behind. Cgeer and the incriminating legacy of vpw were standing stage left still behind the curtain.
WAYDALE and GREASESPOT........has truly exposed the underbelly of twi.
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Sunesis
I believe CG has a very sadistic mean streak. I saw him verbally devastate a young woman from Europe during corps week at HQ one year. She had had a bit too much to drink one evening, as they had been celebrating another European believer's wedding. The party, after the wedding went to a local St. Mary's watering hole that evening. She was pretty plastered and didn't want to leave the place so they just left her at this bar.
I was out that night at the same bar, and waited until closing to bring her home to H.Q. I was not going to leave her with the townies leering at her. I don't know who told on her - probably some of the wedding party people who left her, but PL and I were told the next day to be in the courtyard of VP's house the next morning.
I went there clueless, and there she was with CG, her leader, and PL, the corps coordinator at that time. Well, first CG yelled, then lowered his voice and hissed saying awful, sick, destructive stuff about this woman. The thing was though, usually, people calm down after a few minutes, but he ended up going on and on and on, and literally hissing at her for almost 45 minutes. I started wondering, what the heck is going on here? All of a sudden it dawned on me, he is enjoying this!!
I watched in horrified fascination. I have never, in all my years in TWI, seen someone as verbally torn down as this woman was - it was evil, just plain evil. Even PL was mortified - and she's hard to do that to.
After it was over, the woman went away in tears and PL took me aside and said, go talk to her. I looked at her incredulously and said, what could anyone possibly say to her. She told me to go talk, then send her over to PL at noon.
I spent the morning with her, got her back to some semblance of normalcy, then PL took over. They became great friends.
Anyway, I was glad I never had to serve under him, and was glad God let me see the sick side of him about a year before POP.
I got in TWI in Rye when he did, and he was my limb leader in college. He was always cold, unfriendly and aloof. Why did he get worse? Well, it was always in him, it just took a mentor to bring it out.
I always think of a hissing snake when I think of him.
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excathedra
i was absolutely STUNNED SHOCKED SPEECHLESS when i witnessed the way veepee spoke (that's not the word, i don't know what word to use) to geer's wife when she was helping the 2 of them deliver puppies
i could not believe he would allow it. it was shameful, horrible, unbelievable. veepee talked to her like she was lower than a dog and her husband did absolutely nothing - didn't even notice
and let me tell you, i grew up around horrid verbal abuse. i didn't think anything could shock me
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skyrider
....in veepee's courtyard!!.....cgeer hissing at her....
....ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. [Matt 23:15]
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Georgio Jessio
"When cgeer "pulled the curtain" in 1986.......he only pulled the curtain PART WAY. Standing center stage, exposed for all to see, were craig, don and howard.......just as cgeer had planned."
It's a testament to Craigs lack of brainpower to allow that to have happened. He was humiliated in front of the entire corps. It was surreal. And, yes, Geer was enjoying himself.
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Ham
Interesting. Takes "really screwed up" to understand "screwed up".
Sunesis.. wonder if "cold unfriendly and aloof" was him on a good day..
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Ham
Hey, the big holiday is coming.. just two days away. I find it hilarious that Punxatawney Phil has more publicity and a place in history than either of the two idiots we are talking about combined.
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Ham
Poor ole Loy and his "friend" will not even make an ink stain in the encyclopedia. Nada- nothing, zilch. Only publicity he can get is from the occasional beating from lawyers. Must be bolstering to the ego to have a marmot beat you out in popularity.
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Ham
Just another thought.. from what I read here, Loy and CG would be a match made "in heaven". Maybe Rosie, Donna and the pair should consider a double wedding. If there is a hell, that is probably it.
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jardinero
Don't stop now, Hammie - - you're on a roll!
J.
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