VPW and CGEER and LCM

[skyrider]

As founder and president of twi, vpw knew that there would come a time when he needed to step down and retire from his work. The ministry calendar year of 1981-1982 fit "like a hand in a glove" for this planning......December 31, 1981 marked vpw's 65th birthday and the 1982 year marked the 40th Anniversary of wierwille's ministry.

For at least five years in running, vpw and cgeer had a growing relationship and mutual interests on many fronts. Clearly, cgeer was far more than vp's driver......cgeer was vp's valet, bodyguard, confidante, dog trainer, associate, reading partner, theorist, and more. Cgeer taught and publicly told the corps how he minutely studied vpw and mrs. in every facet....so that he, cgeer, and his wife could be their closest aides.

On another front, lcm aspired vp's approval.....he sought vp's advice and leadership in countless situations. For years, lcm would emcee and/or teach before vpw came on stage. Lcm enjoyed being front and center. The corps program was his "baby project" and no one was going to take that from him.

It is my opinion that vpw, in strategizing his last couple of years as president, saw the escalating egos of cgeer and lcm converging towards collision. Other leaders were in the mix as well......but vpw's "grooming" of his selection was well underway. Also, vpw had endorsed donna to be craig's wife.....for furthering the work of the ministry.

By 1980-81....cgeer was "given" Europe.......in essence, cgeer was Europe's trunk coordintor, corps director, corps coordinator, and more.....and he later held the copyright documents to the pfal material. Cgeer was given a huge chunk of responsibility!!!

Yes, reluctantly....vpw sent cgeer away. In the BRC, the night cgeer was acknowledged for this responsibility and undertaking vpw wept sorely......like a man saying farewell to his closest friend. The BRC sendoff was one of the most emotional nights I'd ever witnessed in twi history.

Back to martindale.....1981-82 was his president-elect year leading up to the "transferring of the mantle" and the videotaping of this occasion. Lcm assumed his installed authority and ascended to his own unique leadership, distancing himself from his mentor.

After all that, here's my question? Did vpw foresee the clashing of egos of these two men....cgeer and lcm....and strategically put an ocean of water between them knowing that they couldn't possibly work together? And more yet.....KNOW that divisions would be on the horizon and follow his death?

skyrider

Edited January 29, 2005 by skyrider

[vickles]

skyrider, I love how you put things and have really enjoyed your posts!!!!!!

Now to the answer to your question. I don't think vpw was that smart of a guy.

[My3Cents]

Skyrider,

I think you're being way to logical in asking these questions. All 3 men you mentioned had/have serious emotional problems.

Most of the decisions of all types were made because of some emotion and then explained using logic or bible verses. And the emotions kept changing (as they always do).

It's not uncommon that when people do this they actually believe their explanations but that doesn't mean they were the cause of the decisions.

[skyrider]

quote:

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By 1980-81....cgeer was "given" Europe.......in essence, cgeer was Europe's trunk coordintor, corps director, corps coordinator, and more.....and he later held the copyright documents to the pfal material. Cgeer was given a huge chunk of responsibility!!!

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And further......by 1984, cgeer was setting policies and procedures for the european believers. Cgeer told finnxgan, the world-wide outreach coordinator -->, that NO LONGER would european followers attend roa every year.....but rather, every third year.

And.....with cgeers interests and adeptness in languages, he was moving in on the african work. The translations department at hq had many abrasive communications with cgeer on these issues.

It seemed that......even though cgeer was given europe to oversee....HE WANTED MORE.

[A la prochaine]

Sir Sky,

quote:

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...HE WANTED MORE.

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Say no more. :(-->

[excathedra]

geer is a bastard always was always will be

[excathedra]

and of course so is craig

but the other one is slippery

[skyrider]

ex....yeah, slippery has a reptilian sound to it. ;)-->

[Georgio Jessio]

With all the crap that was going on, the last straw was Geer's "Tape to Corps" that was the last straw for us. He basicly gave the entire corps an ultimatum. We took option B. He was so arrogant on that tape it blew my mind. I still have it and at first, when I thought I was making a mistake leaving TWI, I would listen to that tape and say "oh yeah, they're lunatics".

The next to last straw was Craig at Corps Week, taking an abusive tounge lashing fro Geer in front of everyone culminating with Craigs prayer "Well Lord, we sure are sorry..."

It was a ocntest between a psychopath and a baffoon.

[excathedra]

quote:

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It was a contest between a psychopath and a baffoon.

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i've never heard it stated so well

[excathedra]

do you know when i first heard that "tape to the corps" i started searching my heart for why he was right !!!!!!

thank goodness someone looked me in the eye and said, "are you out of your mind"!!!!!!!!!

and i said, damn yes i am

[excathedra]

look i have stories about this psycho piece of dang when he was over running GUTmore

**

and i squealed on him to vee pee

that's when the good old moggie said, "how long do i have to suck your corps asses?"

god i was set free

[skyrider]

ex.......yeah, lots of detailed stories.

I had three close friends tell me their first-hand accounts with cgeer......psychopathic behavior and sex stuff like the lawsuits craig came up against.

[excathedra]

no time now but one of his counseling sessions to a married couple was to tell the man to go out and get a prostitute (lest ministry be blamed)

and to tell the wife to stick her finger up his butt and suck his you know, if she wanted to be a real wife

gosh does anyone have his phone number ? marriage counseling is hard to come by

oh did i mention he called witnesses (reverends) into this counseling session ?

[Georgio Jessio]

And he carried a gun to corps meetings, bragged about it. Yikes don't miss that dude.

[Jim]

quote:

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and to tell the wife to stick her finger up his butt and suck his you know, if she wanted to be a real wife

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WHAT?

What a fsking foot. Unbelieveable. I mean, I don't care at all what goes on in your bedroom, we're all kinky in some way or other, but to SAY that to women...

[igotout]

Excathedra, :D--> :D--> :D--> You make me laugh.

Yeah, I heard about his "marriage counseling" too.

There are sooooo many stories about him and his psycho ways. Especially in Gartmoore from what I understand. Maybe that explains his mysterious absence on the Internet. This is in spite of the fact that he has a quiet and from what I hear, profitable franchise ministry called Word Promotions. Is he trying to hide? Is he afraid of having a presence on The Internet? Heck, even TWI finally caved in and did a website.

For the life of me I can not understand why anyone would hold ANY respect for him nevertheless send him a dime for anything.

I almost start laughing out loud when I think of grown men and women who consider him the man of God in our time who holds the "secrets of the gas pumps today". :D-->

Oh, God... what a hoot! Ha, ha, ha.

[Georgio Jessio]

Interesting article that relates tho this topic...

http://www.precastconcrete.org/~messiah7/rec_geerclone.htm

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Geer and Martindale were two different animals...All Martindale wanted to do was get laid and bully people. Geer was calculating...he was ruthless (more than lcm) and he was smarter than lcm. Veepee knew this but Loy was charismatic and could "hold the crowds"...Geer couldn't. I think that's why Martinfail got the top job...Vic thought people would be more likely to follow him than Geer. Did Wierwille see the clash coming? Probably not...but I think maybe he realized that they did not work well together and seperated them in order to allow each of their respective "talents" to operate independant of each other in a practical way...they certainly didn't compliment each other.

I think Geer is a psychopath. he's a dangerous man capable of hurting a lot of people. Thankfully, he has the personality of a nazi prison guard and most steer clear of him...maybe that why he licences other people to run his classes...

[WordWolf]

quote:

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Originally posted by Georgio Jessio:

With all the crap that was going on, the last straw was Geer's "Tape to Corps" that was the last straw for us. He basicly gave the entire corps an ultimatum. We took option B. He was so arrogant on that tape it blew my mind. I still have it and at first, when I thought I was making a mistake leaving TWI, I would listen to that tape and say "oh yeah, they're lunatics".

(snip)

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Which tape is this?

[johniam]

quote: he has the personality of a nazi prison guard

I just found out that John Banner, the actor who played Sgt Schultz on 'Hogan's Heroes', was not only Jewish, but was actually in a Nazi prison camp early in Hitler's reign, before it was a death sentence to be in one. That is too weird!

OK, back to our regularly scheduled thread.

[TOMMYZ]

Could someone explain Cgeer's initial appeal to me ? I never heard of him untill "Passing" in '86. Maybe it was 'cause I was rank and file and not leadership. That summer our FC switched over to getting the Gartmore tapes instead of the ones from NK and my initial reaction was that CG was an uninspiring teacher. When I read his "epistle to the americas" I fired off an angry "who the hell does this guy think he is" letter to the local leadership and when I read "Passing" I got the same reaction, that he was someone who felt only he could do things right. Now maybe you had to be leadership to appreciate him but I never "got" him. What am I missing ? The "splinter group" I'm with would be considered "Geerite" and they're all eagerly awaiting his advanced class. When his basic class came out people thought it was dry and mainly good for people who had never taken PFAL but last year when they thought that AC was coming out everybody was so excited. I don't get it. What am I missing ?

[George Aar]

"Could someone explain Cgeer's initial appeal"

I sure dunno. It's entirely by me.

But then Charles Manson had some pretty devoted followers too. I didn't understand that one either...

[skyrider]

quote:

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Could someone explain Cgeer's initial appeal to me ?

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TOMMYZ....there is NO initial appeal.

Years of calculating.....years of standing alongside vpw.....years of desk work in Gartmore..... and documenting his biased version in the POP paper....gave him access to twi followers.

This coup de main took years to implement. And, to this day....cgeer is a man who deceptively works behind-the-scenes.

[Jim]

I sat through an intermediate class that he ran in his home at Natick, Ma around '74 or '75. He seemed a little cold and authoritative, but not evil. Wonder what happened?