quote:...what The Way Corps had become for many: a clique that was more concerned with being right than with being human.
So profound Shaz.
I usually have Dr. Phil on for background noise when I'm working @ home. If I had a dollar for everytime he says to someone, "Do you wanna be right, or do you want to fix this..." I wouldn't need to work.
So many people forsake all in the name of "right." Part of the human condition, I guess. Root cause.... SATAN.
quote:Some are playing "good guards" in TWI to this day: hoping to affect change from within, but not risking too much, for fear of being disenfranchised.
Shaz hits the mark again. So many folks stayed around the ministry, HQ and apparently even went into the Corps to effect positive change, from within, myself included. Speaking for myself, after VPW died, I felt that SOMEBODY needed to stay around who had some idea of the "heart of the ministry." I/we actually thought "they" would listen to the Word, reason, and even common sense and treat God's people like the treasures you/we are. I think this kinda goes partly towards the "why did we put up with it?" question. I think people had a real hunger to "do" and "be" right.
BUT. After reading your stories (BTW - - THANK YOU for sharing, this is a great discussion) it seems to me like the "blame compass" keeps pointing back to LCM. Craig was the poster boy for the "chosen" as has been mentioned up the thread. There were many guys from the first few Corps groups who were able to coordinate the Corps, Which originally, if memory serves was a one year assignment like ever other Corps assignment. Craig influenced the process to keep himself in the top spot. He knew in his heart there were others better... people modeled that behavior. "I'M doing this because it's ME."
Originally, there were NO Corps on staff at HQ. The more Corps came to work there, the worse things got. I was 21 when I came on staff and there was no way I was gonna tell Milford B*w*n, old enough to be my Dad, how to live or what he should do.
Craig, to me always seemed a little too attached to his football career. It was pretty obvious to me that he felt he never really got the opportunity to show what he could do. He was angry about his lack of playing time. I believe he felt he was a Pro Bowl calibre player who was treated unfairly. That effected his performance, etc. he never got to play.
He rode the bench in the Orange Bowl and it really burned him. Does it make sense to you guys that his behavior through the years reflects that he was definitely gonna do it HIS way. He was gonna do whatever it took to get the reins then run it as he saw fit, IN YOUR FACE!!!!!
I mean, it makes no sense in any business sorta way that one would make such a wholescale abandonment of the things that built the business from basically nothing to a $22mil per year "machine" in about 10-15 years.
It seems to me that his attitude was the poison that spread thru the Corps. When it became clear that the faithful to the "old ways" would NOT follow HIM, not God, HIM - (oooh. that's scary just thinkin' bout it ) there was basically nobody left to say, "Stick your reproof where it doesn't shine.
How far he fell makes one wonder if he was EVER actually born again. David, of the Bible, wasn't when he stooped so low as to kill. There are some scriptures that really make me wonder.
There is a BIG difference between a good man making horrible decisions and a bad man behaving horribly.
Can ANYONE tell me of ONE good, original thing that Craig added to TWI, the Corps or otherwise?
Can someone tell me what the "Corps Coordinators" did, as opposed to the Corps DIRECTOR?
I remember reading in The Way: Living in Love that Duncan was the "coordinator of the second year (First) Corps, while Martindale was coordinator of the first year (Second) Corps. Both these guys were in the Way Corps training program at the time.
At some point Martindale became the Corps Director succeeding George Jess.
Also, Don Wierwille was the "dean" of the Emporia campus, and there have been "campus coordinators" at the training centers.
Condemned because you were Corps. I believe that. I really, really believe that, too. There was no way to win. Most likely the Corps grads were the worst abused. And you held another job.
I kind of went ballistic a little on a guy after I left my second year in the Corpse. Didn't really get violent.
But after reading yours and many others, in particular many of the women here, I am amazed so many of you were able to hold your tempers and not come out swinging.
Reading events here makes mine seem minor in comparison.
I believe each person that had crap like that thrown at them in this thread deserves a Cool Waters Ex-TWI Purple Heart.
I remember apologizing to numerous non-corps for the behavior of some corps. Even as recently as this last year I spoke to one of my 'sponsors' from over 20 yrs ago and said "For whatever it's worth, thank you for sponsoring me. If you need something, please let me know.". I again sort of apologized I wasted their money on my "corps training" and asked if I could repay them (husband & wife).
As long as we are not naming names, The BIGGEST phuckhead if EVER met (besides LCM) was Stev* Harriso*. He may have been a decent person pre-corps, but by 1985 was rotten to the 'corps'. To him I lovingly say, "Hey bud, if you're reading this, bend over, I'll drive." You helped me as much as a terminal cancer with your arrogance, egotism, and foul-mouthed conversations. You genuinely helped no one. Was being LCM's puppet WORTH it??? I've got a jack, and I'd like to share it with you, even to this day.
How's about some genuine apologies from some of these clowns? The lives they ruined, the lives they misguided. Can they not pretend to be REAL people, have a bit of dignity, and at least acknowledge their error? Oh well ...
I remember apologizing to numerous non-corps for the behavior of some corps. Even as recently as this last year I spoke to one of my 'sponsors' from over 20 yrs ago and said "For whatever it's worth, thank you for sponsoring me. If you need something, please let me know.". I again sort of apologized I wasted their money on my "corps training" and asked if I could repay them (husband & wife).
We offered the same to ours. All refused our repayment. I must admit I depended upon them being truthful or that would have bugged me to this day.
Alfakat, you win. Whether you share or not is up to you!
Actually, it wasn't horrible after a while. I did tell her that one time that I had volunteered to go out and serve God, not her and if she didn't like SHE could leave!
But it got old after a while. It was my initial exposure to the hierarchy in TWI. It was not improved terribly when a group of her fellow corps came to town on various occasions. There were things that happened that were just plain wrong, and I knew it and said so, but I was "not Way Corps just couldn't possibly understand." Like the time a couple of lightbearers came through and I was forced to share my bed with the woman while....you can fill in the blanks. Or being treated by other corps folks like SB's combination servant and pet dog. One WC who came to town (not 4th Corps by the way) suggested they go out for a meal, and to my surprise (and dismay) I was "invited" along to this expensive seafood restaurant, where the visitor announced she and I were sharing a meal. She ate most of it, and when I gave her half of the money she was outraged - she was NOT paying for this, I was and I better leave a decent tip, too! (Sharing apparently takes on the same kind of meaning as the immortal phrase "How would like to get blessed?")
I was nearly seduced by SB. It started with the measurement of the inseam of my suit pants at the "sewing trailer". But I fled out of there naked and wounded, but in my right mind. But, she had me going there for a few, and I almost went for it. I mean, after all, she was a Reverend, so it must have been ok to service her. But since I knew it wasn't right, I just "said no". But it was hard...
I think someone else said a few pages back about people being thrust into situations where they were to be leaders, do marriage counseling, teach parenting, and so on and so on and they were young, inexperienced, and didn't know what they were doing. I think that happened a lot. I think to be sent far away from your home, to be with people you don't want to be with and do what you don't want to do and are maybe not cut out to do would be very difficult indeed. And the big thing too, is remember this woman was not living with the saint of the earth, either. I had been around a year and probably gave her some headaches. But we parted friends.
Oh, well, I never really had a big problem with all of that. She was single, I was single, and I just figured it was human nature coming to the surface. People do get randy once in awhile, and really, as pretty as she was, I was a bit flattered by it. But, it was somewhat confusing too in that she was a clergywoman, but I just shelved it as an isolated incident. I didn't even tell any of my buddies about it because I didn't want them to think bad of her.
quote:...someone else said a few pages back about people being thrust into situations where they were to be leaders... and so on and they were young, inexperienced, and didn't know what they were doing. I think that happened a lot...to be sent far away from your home, to be with people you don't want to be with and do what you don't want to do and are maybe not cut out to do would be very difficult indeed.
...It was. It DID happen A LOT. I'm thinking now that people being thrust into leadership roles they were not prepared for was more the norm than the exception. Even in "the old days" speak so fondly of.
My interim Corps year was my second year as a WOW. This time I was the Corps Nazi a$$hole; albeit doggedly determined NOT to be. I was sent to New Albany Indiana, which was about as different from my homeland of Pittsburgh, PA as could be. The southern drawl was a different language to me altogether. I couldn't even uuuhhhndaa staaahhhhnnnn wuuuut folks wuz saaaaayyuun! :o-->
My three WOW brothers were:
Eric; who was SO physically abused by his father, who would backhand him about the head, so often and badly that he sloched to his right and would hardly move his mouth when he talked.
Dave; a tall, blonde, blue eyed, rugged, carpenter type, whose life story was kinda like a country western song.
Then there was Jesse; a handsome softspoken ex-military guy.
Jesse was CONVINCED that I was a CIA plant in the WOW program assigned by the Army to watch him and assinate him in his sleep. When I would be talking with one of the other two Jesse would hear voices in his head that, regardless of what was actually being said, he'd hear stuff like...
"Tonite's the night. I'm gonna off Jesse in his sleep."
Seriously. He'd hear stuff like that then use his softspoken demeanor to gently confront me and try to get me to admit it. Of course I denied saying whatever, but he'd say that I was just using my CIA training to be really good at twisting stuff.
Eric was almost 30 and had never worked a day in his life. No discernable people skills. I got him an interview to work @ KFC. Gave him a ride & he refused to walk through a door the manager was holding open.
Eric wound up leaving the field, wouldn't get a job. We wound up calling Dave "Van Man." He moved out of our apartment and lived in his van in our parking lot (or wherever he decided to park on a particular day). He figured that was wise cause Jesse just might decide to off one of, or all of us as WE slept before I got to him.
Jesse was real quiet. Wouldn't go witnessing or do most of the WOW stuff. He would just kinda sit back & watch me all the time.
This is no sh##. No exaggeration. No artist's license to make it sound more interesting.
After the first couple of months our "numbers" were not that great. More like "non-existent." We had been the first family in the region to put together a PFAL class but those people kinda faded away, except for April, who became Dave's girlfriend.
After being called on the carpet at our Limb Meeting by our Region Coordinator; a slick, up and coming Corps Nazi, Robert (last name starts w/B, rhymes with "felt"). I went home and wrote Robert a long heartfelt "help me!" letter explaining how my "WOW Brothers" team; Eric was an abused child and couldn't speak to strangers, Jesse heard voices saying I was out to asassinate him in his sleep, and Dave, the only sane one, was living in his VAN!!!
When I recieved Robert's reply letter (after three loooong weeks) I was excited thinking the Corps "calvary" was about to ride over the horizon and HELP!
Robert told me that if I were a better leader, my people wouldn't have such problems and he was gonna recommend that I don't go back in residence because I "just was not ready" and therefore UNQUALIFIED to be a Corps grad because I could get these guys to BE WOW's!
They were CLINICAL (at least Jesse & Eric). There was NO WAY I was qualified to help them. I learned to sleep w/one eye open that year, though. -->
I think that was one of the biggest miscalculations VPW made in the ministry. He pushed and pushed that people should go WOW and Corps BEFORE college. He even went so far as to say the he felt going to college might be a "cop out" for some who were afraid to go out on the field.
People were constantly put into positions they had absolutely NO training or experience for. I would have had to be Dr. Phil to deal w/MY wow family!
After that "WOW!" year... hell yeah I was "afraid" to go out on the field!
You were thrust into a bad situation and expected to lead. You at least recognized that your situation was impossible and you were not trained to handle the craziness that you were put in the midst of. (Have you read The Cult That Snapped? Great story by the author about his interim year as a WOW family coordinator 3 years after yours - same region coordinator too!)
What turned Way Corps into Corps-Nazis was being in tough situations and not realizing that they were in over their heads. Figuring that telling people to renew their minds and to read the collaterals would solve all their problems.
Just amazing- I spent a lot of time at HQ in 1986-87 due to the fiance the great corps man. The nazi mind set was in full force, but then there where the "cool cliques" as well but they would bow & scrape as well. I agree with an undercurrent of opinion, the youth lack of mature wisdom-I am glad I got out and away, because the abused becomes abusive-or "looks for a factor of life they can control " is so true as well. You all seem to have overcome (if ever you had them) nazi ways! A question to liven it up, how hard was it really to stop-just stop the legalism waybrain stuff? I just coma'd for 11 years, no big deal!
"Can someone tell me what the "Corps Coordinators" did, as opposed to the Corps _DIRECTOR_?"
"I remember reading in _The Way: Living in Love_ that Duncan was the "coordinator of the second year (First) Corps, while Martindale was coordinator of the first year (Second) Corps. Both these guys were in the Way Corps training program at the time. At some point Martindale became the Corps _Director_ succeeding George Jess. Also, Don Wierwille was the "dean" of the Emporia campus, and there have been "campus coordinators" at the training centers. "
I thought that Steve Strezpec was the Corps Director.
That is what he told me at one time. [in fact the second and last time that I ever spoke with him. I have spoken with him for a total of maybe 10 minutes in my life.]
The first time I met him, I exposed his public lies to the branch, so he annonced that I was born of Adversary's seed. The second time I met him, he did not remember me.
quote:Can someone tell me what the "Corps Coordinators" did, as opposed to the Corps _DIRECTOR_?
Galen, others probably know better than I do......but here's the simple version:
Corps Director --- Oversees the corps program, establishes corps policies and procedures and gives directives to the corps coordinators. The corps director was responsible to report back to board of trustees and/or trustee responsible for said campus.
Corps Coordinator-- Oversees executive committee of corps campus, receives directives from corps director, coordinates work with assistant corps coordinator and oversees all corps activities.
Remember......at one time, there were five corps campus locations....hq, rome city, emporia, gunnison and tinnie, new mexico.
With your remark about Stxve Strxzpxc......he was the gunnison corps coordinator for several years, (1985-1991 ??).........martindale allegedly fired him for "not standing strongly with twi" or something along those lines. Gunnison staff, at the time, saw a much different version. With the Hornxys at gunnison at that time, some staffers were not blind.
No. I haven't read it...yet. Read exerpts though. If he served w/RB I can probably tell part of his story, never having met him.
RB, IMO, was part of a new generation of chosen, golden boys, fast trackers, at the head of the pack. I think he was WC7, which the general line on them was that they were "the Best" Corps group to date. I don't think I had ever met a 7th WC person that I didn't like, until RB. He seemed like a snake to me, and he wore those slick leather cowboy boots... ugh. Creeped me out.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'm thinking it was a pretty easy call for me. There really wasn't any greatness or in-depth spiritual perception required for me to see I was in over my head. "Imagine my delight" at waking (I'm a very light sleeper) up in the deep dark black dead quiet of night with my "WOW brother" sitting up on his bed staring at me with his "game face" on.
I think the "reality" struck me that the dark angry looking figure sitting accross the room was not just a "WOW Brother." He was a very angry and strong guy, who had he wished, could have awakened me with a very heavy blow to the head.
"It was heavy, he aint my BROTHER!" (my age shows. --> catch the reference?)
During that year, God firmly stamped it right smack in the middle of my forehead that the WHOLE WAY MINISTRY had was equally inexperienced as I, to care for Jessee & Eric. In all of the more than 85 ministries of TWI there was NOTHING to take care of people who had actual, real psychological needs.
VPW was like, minister to them, cast their spirits, out; then love them with the love of God THAT'll heal them. LCM was oblivious; tyring so desparately to be the "world class athlete" he just KNEW he was. What was it the guy said during the presedential debate... "I knew world class athletes. LCM you are NO world class athletes."
Really. In high school I watched our guys (as a freshman on the bench) chase Tony Dorsett around the field for almost 200 yards while he single handedly routed our highly touted team. Played against Dan Marino too. It took four of us to sack him at times. He'd still get the ball the ball to receivers with a BUNCH of us hangin' all over him. It was a pretty clear comparison playin' flag football w/LCM @ HQ.
He (LCM) nazi'ed us even then. He ALWAYS had to be steady quarterback, for BOTH teams. We put up with it cause we wanted to play ball & had more pure fun, more actual competition when he wasn't there. HE wanted to call all the plays, some of which were pretty hokey. I don't think he quite grasped the concept that when you were on defense you'd have a pretty damn good idea what play he was gonna call.... seeing as he'd just tried the same play (that failed) when you were just on offense.
I digress....
Anyway, it seemed to me like admitting that people would need real psychotherapy sorta flew in the face of what TWI believed about healing. I'm sure you guys have been nazi'ed regarding health/injury issues, I know I have. It was as if admitting one had a problem was tantamount to some sort of 'godly' failure.
I think your W.O.W. year might be a lot more the norm than you may think.
Personally I had a "W.O.W. brother" who had a real penchant for starting fires. I'd come home and find big scorch marks on the countertop and the apartment would smell of smoke. I learned rather early on to keep matches or anything flammable out of his reach. (You can imagine what happened to our damage deposit) Then another one of the "family" decided to move in his girlfriend and her one-year-old. Then another decided it would be a great idea to get a local girl in a "family way". Oh, and then there was the night the cops came to arrest us all for kidnapping and rape. Yeah, it was a laugh riot.
And that's not even to mention the other W.O.W. family up the road from us a bit. The Corps "coordinator" thought that the best way to reprove one of his lesser family members was by shooting him in the head. Yeah, killed him graveyard dead. Wasn't that just special?
The W.O.W. program was an idiotic device designed to promote TWI and ultimately generate more income and bring more young girls into striking distance of the MOG and his minions.
The fact that people were put in untenable, or even downright dangerous situations couldn't have mattered less to them. They were getting theirs, and that's all that counted...
quote:The Corps "coordinator" thought that the best way to reprove one of his lesser family members was by shooting him in the head. Yeah, killed him graveyard dead.
I won't mention the names here - actually I've forgotten the name of the killer - I didn't ever get to know him, but his victim I don't think I can forget.
Geeze, it's been 25 years now. The a-hole is probably out of jail. Unfortunately, his victim is still dead...
It took quite a while...years. I felt like I should completely purge "wayspeak" from my vocabulary.
For as much as I felt I was "immune" or not under the spell, or levelheaded and "clear-eyed," I had to come to grips with the reality that the terminology, expressions and the like was part of the control mechanism. I found that using the terms had an "intoxicating" effect on me - - once I stopped using them.
I had developed a duality. A "Way" (innie) personality and an outie personality that I used when communicating to professionals and family members who, as I thought at the time, "just dodn't get the lingo."
It is the LINGO that brainwashed us ALL. At least to some degree. For example:
I just wrote, "...at least to some degree." WAYSPEAK for the same phrase would be something like....
"We were all brainwashed to the extent and in the proportion that we used wayspeak in our daily habit of language pattern."
I have actually used more wayspeak here on GS on the past two weeks than I have in the past 17yrs combined. Each time I do use a term or expression it has been under great "mental guard" with my new set of precautions each placing "the red dot" on it prepared to fire at will should the expression take ONE step towards controlling me again.
Huh? Hey HC? I though you present yourself as one of the "good ones?" One of the right fighters who stood against the tyranny that was/is TWI.
I do. Guilty as charged.
I've just grown and been healed enough to recognize precisely where I was, precisely what my culpability was or was NOT in the tyranny. That being said, I MUST acknowledge that there WAS a level of brainwashing I was under the influence of. There was a level of INSANITY that I held onto "with all my heart, soul, mind and strength."
I was crazy. Even if only a little. Crazy is CRAZY.
How many average Joe's would continue to live with a roomate who though you were gonna KILL him. How many would stop working so as to prove you didn't have money to pay RENT in order to "motivate" your "WOW Brothers" to "do the WOW Program." Huh????
There were "Way things" I did that I would never tell my older brother about while I was in. "Way things" I would never say while I talked to him.
Why????
I knew he would tell me I was crazy to even CONSIDER doing it. I knew HE knew I was raised better. I KNEW that HE KNEW .... that I KNEW ... BETTER.
But.
I did it anyway. AND I hid it from him and anyone else who certainly would have gotten in my face about it in any WAY. At least anybody whose opinion I actually cared about.
You could NEVER have convinced me of what I just wrote 20 years ago. Some tried. Failed. I "just KNEW THAT I KNEW THAT I KNEW" what I was doing.
No. I DIDN'T know, 'gnosko' anything about SOME of what I was actually contributing so "whole heartedly" to. I was an ENABLER. WE ALL were in some way shape or form. It was a measure of mind control that caused me to stay around HQ under constant mental anguish and abuse. Thinking I was holding the line for what was right. The subconscious stress was so great that my face broke out with razorbumps so badly that the bottom part of my face where my beardline grows was very much darker than the top.
I though it was "normal" because I have "sensitive skin." Now my face is all the same color. I didn't switch skincare products or shaving cream, or change my razors more often, etc. It gradually faded away. Even dealing with the intense emotional distress of divorce, bankruptcy, and custody battles for the lives of my children. Makes one go Hmmmmmmmmmmm......
It was only when I made a conscious decision to walk. I walked aWAY from The Way in every way and consciously determined that I would go back to how I talked before I associated myself with that group.
God held HIS world together for aproximately 2 THOUSAND, 9 HUNDRED 61 years before I was born. HE was in CHRIST, reconciling the world unto Himself lOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOnnnnnnnnnnnngg before I was a glimmer in my dad's horny eye. (He had one drunk one and one horny one )
God doesn't NEED me.
He doesn't NEED me to stand FOR Him or HIS Word.
He doesn't need ME to move His Word over HIS World.
God LOVES me.
He would LOVE for me to KNOW his Word so I can come to KNOW Him, as MY Daddy.
He sent His SON to SAVE me.
The more I cone to KNOW HIS Word, the more I LOVE Him. I see Him more and more as MY Daddy.
My Daddy LOVES ME.
He would love IT if I told you what He did for ME.
BECAUSE. He did the same for YOU.
IF you KNEW that you would love HIM too.
AND.
You would love ME too,
for telling you.
And.
We TWO would love HIM too...
together.
That is ALL he wants from ME
and
YOU.
Clearing wayspeak from my head was the most vital component in clearing my head to really be ABLE to SEE the Word of God. I found myself engaging the first word in a wayspeak phrase and disengaging my brain. I would "slide through" the expression like the old kid's game, "Chutes & Ladders." ... Poof! I'd be on the other side of the chute, somewhere else, wherever that particular chute took me.
All that goes to say...
I would venture a guess that:
IF you still use wayspeak; their terms, expressions, "wayWords," even the meter of the cadence of the pattern of your thoughts - - all of it....EVEN the manner in which you engage or disengage from the sharings you read here...
To the extent and in the proportion wayspeak is a part of your life TWI still controls you.
SO. How long did it take? I view my involvement time w/TWI sorta like an alcholic. I've seen others here on GS make consistent references to the "alcholic pattern." TOTALLY agree, totally similar emotional state of being.
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excathedra
the cruelty of the corps program hurt me very much as a result i think i was kinder to others
alfakat
lesssee, watered garden, you were in Ft. Worth, right??? (I was in Albuquerque that same year) so I am thinkin' your wunnerful BC was a sewin' type o' gal, with a syrupy Southern accent and initials o
HCW
...It was. It DID happen A LOT. I'm thinking now that people being thrust into leadership roles they were not prepared for was more the norm than the exception. Even in "the old days" speak so fondly
alfakat
I think the "Blue Plate" special can be had with 2 plates; why not????
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HCW
So profound Shaz.
I usually have Dr. Phil on for background noise when I'm working @ home. If I had a dollar for everytime he says to someone, "Do you wanna be right, or do you want to fix this..." I wouldn't need to work.
So many people forsake all in the name of "right." Part of the human condition, I guess. Root cause.... SATAN.
Shaz hits the mark again. So many folks stayed around the ministry, HQ and apparently even went into the Corps to effect positive change, from within, myself included. Speaking for myself, after VPW died, I felt that SOMEBODY needed to stay around who had some idea of the "heart of the ministry." I/we actually thought "they" would listen to the Word, reason, and even common sense and treat God's people like the treasures you/we are. I think this kinda goes partly towards the "why did we put up with it?" question. I think people had a real hunger to "do" and "be" right.
BUT. After reading your stories (BTW - - THANK YOU for sharing, this is a great discussion) it seems to me like the "blame compass" keeps pointing back to LCM. Craig was the poster boy for the "chosen" as has been mentioned up the thread. There were many guys from the first few Corps groups who were able to coordinate the Corps, Which originally, if memory serves was a one year assignment like ever other Corps assignment. Craig influenced the process to keep himself in the top spot. He knew in his heart there were others better... people modeled that behavior. "I'M doing this because it's ME."
Originally, there were NO Corps on staff at HQ. The more Corps came to work there, the worse things got. I was 21 when I came on staff and there was no way I was gonna tell Milford B*w*n, old enough to be my Dad, how to live or what he should do.
Craig, to me always seemed a little too attached to his football career. It was pretty obvious to me that he felt he never really got the opportunity to show what he could do. He was angry about his lack of playing time. I believe he felt he was a Pro Bowl calibre player who was treated unfairly. That effected his performance, etc. he never got to play.
He rode the bench in the Orange Bowl and it really burned him. Does it make sense to you guys that his behavior through the years reflects that he was definitely gonna do it HIS way. He was gonna do whatever it took to get the reins then run it as he saw fit, IN YOUR FACE!!!!!
I mean, it makes no sense in any business sorta way that one would make such a wholescale abandonment of the things that built the business from basically nothing to a $22mil per year "machine" in about 10-15 years.
It seems to me that his attitude was the poison that spread thru the Corps. When it became clear that the faithful to the "old ways" would NOT follow HIM, not God, HIM - (oooh. that's scary just thinkin' bout it
) there was basically nobody left to say, "Stick your reproof where it doesn't shine.
How far he fell makes one wonder if he was EVER actually born again. David, of the Bible, wasn't when he stooped so low as to kill. There are some scriptures that really make me wonder.
There is a BIG difference between a good man making horrible decisions and a bad man behaving horribly.
Can ANYONE tell me of ONE good, original thing that Craig added to TWI, the Corps or otherwise?
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Oakspear
Can someone tell me what the "Corps Coordinators" did, as opposed to the Corps DIRECTOR?
I remember reading in The Way: Living in Love that Duncan was the "coordinator of the second year (First) Corps, while Martindale was coordinator of the first year (Second) Corps. Both these guys were in the Way Corps training program at the time.
At some point Martindale became the Corps Director succeeding George Jess.
Also, Don Wierwille was the "dean" of the Emporia campus, and there have been "campus coordinators" at the training centers.
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Eagle
Exie:
Condemned because you were Corps. I believe that. I really, really believe that, too. There was no way to win. Most likely the Corps grads were the worst abused. And you held another job.
I kind of went ballistic a little on a guy after I left my second year in the Corpse. Didn't really get violent.
But after reading yours and many others, in particular many of the women here, I am amazed so many of you were able to hold your tempers and not come out swinging.
Reading events here makes mine seem minor in comparison.
I believe each person that had crap like that thrown at them in this thread deserves a Cool Waters Ex-TWI Purple Heart.
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Eagle
You know, you could all file lawsuits, you know.
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tomtuttle
I remember apologizing to numerous non-corps for the behavior of some corps. Even as recently as this last year I spoke to one of my 'sponsors' from over 20 yrs ago and said "For whatever it's worth, thank you for sponsoring me. If you need something, please let me know.". I again sort of apologized I wasted their money on my "corps training" and asked if I could repay them (husband & wife).
As long as we are not naming names, The BIGGEST phuckhead if EVER met (besides LCM) was Stev* Harriso*. He may have been a decent person pre-corps, but by 1985 was rotten to the 'corps'. To him I lovingly say, "Hey bud, if you're reading this, bend over, I'll drive." You helped me as much as a terminal cancer with your arrogance, egotism, and foul-mouthed conversations. You genuinely helped no one. Was being LCM's puppet WORTH it??? I've got a jack, and I'd like to share it with you, even to this day.
How's about some genuine apologies from some of these clowns? The lives they ruined, the lives they misguided. Can they not pretend to be REAL people, have a bit of dignity, and at least acknowledge their error? Oh well ...
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excathedra
let me at him !!!!
i love you tuttles. it's just like you to offer the money back to your sponsors.
((((( eagle )))))
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houseisarockin
We offered the same to ours. All refused our repayment. I must admit I depended upon them being truthful or that would have bugged me to this day.
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Watered Garden
Alfakat, you win. Whether you share or not is up to you!
Actually, it wasn't horrible after a while. I did tell her that one time that I had volunteered to go out and serve God, not her and if she didn't like SHE could leave!
But it got old after a while. It was my initial exposure to the hierarchy in TWI. It was not improved terribly when a group of her fellow corps came to town on various occasions. There were things that happened that were just plain wrong, and I knew it and said so, but I was "not Way Corps just couldn't possibly understand." Like the time a couple of lightbearers came through and I was forced to share my bed with the woman while....you can fill in the blanks. Or being treated by other corps folks like SB's combination servant and pet dog. One WC who came to town (not 4th Corps by the way) suggested they go out for a meal, and to my surprise (and dismay) I was "invited" along to this expensive seafood restaurant, where the visitor announced she and I were sharing a meal. She ate most of it, and when I gave her half of the money she was outraged - she was NOT paying for this, I was and I better leave a decent tip, too! (Sharing apparently takes on the same kind of meaning as the immortal phrase "How would like to get blessed?")
Ah, the golden days of yesteryear!
WG
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J0nny Ling0
I was nearly seduced by SB. It started with the measurement of the inseam of my suit pants at the "sewing trailer". But I fled out of there naked and wounded, but in my right mind. But, she had me going there for a few, and I almost went for it. I mean, after all, she was a Reverend, so it must have been ok to service her. But since I knew it wasn't right, I just "said no". But it was hard...
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Watered Garden
I really hope she changed.
I think someone else said a few pages back about people being thrust into situations where they were to be leaders, do marriage counseling, teach parenting, and so on and so on and they were young, inexperienced, and didn't know what they were doing. I think that happened a lot. I think to be sent far away from your home, to be with people you don't want to be with and do what you don't want to do and are maybe not cut out to do would be very difficult indeed. And the big thing too, is remember this woman was not living with the saint of the earth, either. I had been around a year and probably gave her some headaches. But we parted friends.
WG
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J0nny Ling0
Oh, well, I never really had a big problem with all of that. She was single, I was single, and I just figured it was human nature coming to the surface. People do get randy once in awhile, and really, as pretty as she was, I was a bit flattered by it. But, it was somewhat confusing too in that she was a clergywoman, but I just shelved it as an isolated incident. I didn't even tell any of my buddies about it because I didn't want them to think bad of her.
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HCW
...It was. It DID happen A LOT. I'm thinking now that people being thrust into leadership roles they were not prepared for was more the norm than the exception. Even in "the old days" speak so fondly of.
My interim Corps year was my second year as a WOW. This time I was the Corps Nazi a$$hole; albeit doggedly determined NOT to be. I was sent to New Albany Indiana, which was about as different from my homeland of Pittsburgh, PA as could be. The southern drawl was a different language to me altogether. I couldn't even uuuhhhndaa staaahhhhnnnn wuuuut folks wuz saaaaayyuun!
:o-->
My three WOW brothers were:
Eric; who was SO physically abused by his father, who would backhand him about the head, so often and badly that he sloched to his right and would hardly move his mouth when he talked.
Dave; a tall, blonde, blue eyed, rugged, carpenter type, whose life story was kinda like a country western song.
Then there was Jesse; a handsome softspoken ex-military guy.
Jesse was CONVINCED that I was a CIA plant in the WOW program assigned by the Army to watch him and assinate him in his sleep. When I would be talking with one of the other two Jesse would hear voices in his head that, regardless of what was actually being said, he'd hear stuff like...
"Tonite's the night. I'm gonna off Jesse in his sleep."
Seriously. He'd hear stuff like that then use his softspoken demeanor to gently confront me and try to get me to admit it. Of course I denied saying whatever, but he'd say that I was just using my CIA training to be really good at twisting stuff.
Eric was almost 30 and had never worked a day in his life. No discernable people skills. I got him an interview to work @ KFC. Gave him a ride & he refused to walk through a door the manager was holding open.
Eric wound up leaving the field, wouldn't get a job. We wound up calling Dave "Van Man." He moved out of our apartment and lived in his van in our parking lot (or wherever he decided to park on a particular day). He figured that was wise cause Jesse just might decide to off one of, or all of us as WE slept before I got to him.
Jesse was real quiet. Wouldn't go witnessing or do most of the WOW stuff. He would just kinda sit back & watch me all the time.
This is no sh##. No exaggeration. No artist's license to make it sound more interesting.
After the first couple of months our "numbers" were not that great. More like "non-existent." We had been the first family in the region to put together a PFAL class but those people kinda faded away, except for April, who became Dave's girlfriend.
After being called on the carpet at our Limb Meeting by our Region Coordinator; a slick, up and coming Corps Nazi, Robert (last name starts w/B, rhymes with "felt"). I went home and wrote Robert a long heartfelt "help me!" letter explaining how my "WOW Brothers" team; Eric was an abused child and couldn't speak to strangers, Jesse heard voices saying I was out to asassinate him in his sleep, and Dave, the only sane one, was living in his VAN!!!
When I recieved Robert's reply letter (after three loooong weeks) I was excited thinking the Corps "calvary" was about to ride over the horizon and HELP!
Robert told me that if I were a better leader, my people wouldn't have such problems and he was gonna recommend that I don't go back in residence because I "just was not ready" and therefore UNQUALIFIED to be a Corps grad because I could get these guys to BE WOW's!
They were CLINICAL (at least Jesse & Eric). There was NO WAY I was qualified to help them. I learned to sleep w/one eye open that year, though.
-->
I think that was one of the biggest miscalculations VPW made in the ministry. He pushed and pushed that people should go WOW and Corps BEFORE college. He even went so far as to say the he felt going to college might be a "cop out" for some who were afraid to go out on the field.
People were constantly put into positions they had absolutely NO training or experience for. I would have had to be Dr. Phil to deal w/MY wow family!
After that "WOW!" year... hell yeah I was "afraid" to go out on the field!
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Oakspear
HCW:
You were thrust into a bad situation and expected to lead. You at least recognized that your situation was impossible and you were not trained to handle the craziness that you were put in the midst of. (Have you read The Cult That Snapped? Great story by the author about his interim year as a WOW family coordinator 3 years after yours - same region coordinator too!)
What turned Way Corps into Corps-Nazis was being in tough situations and not realizing that they were in over their heads. Figuring that telling people to renew their minds and to read the collaterals would solve all their problems.
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andreatheflorist
Just amazing- I spent a lot of time at HQ in 1986-87 due to the fiance the great corps man. The nazi mind set was in full force, but then there where the "cool cliques" as well but they would bow & scrape as well. I agree with an undercurrent of opinion, the youth lack of mature wisdom-I am glad I got out and away, because the abused becomes abusive-or "looks for a factor of life they can control " is so true as well. You all seem to have overcome (if ever you had them) nazi ways! A question to liven it up, how hard was it really to stop-just stop the legalism waybrain stuff? I just coma'd for 11 years, no big deal!
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Galen
I saw this previously up in the thread:
"Can someone tell me what the "Corps Coordinators" did, as opposed to the Corps _DIRECTOR_?"
"I remember reading in _The Way: Living in Love_ that Duncan was the "coordinator of the second year (First) Corps, while Martindale was coordinator of the first year (Second) Corps. Both these guys were in the Way Corps training program at the time. At some point Martindale became the Corps _Director_ succeeding George Jess. Also, Don Wierwille was the "dean" of the Emporia campus, and there have been "campus coordinators" at the training centers. "
I thought that Steve Strezpec was the Corps Director.
That is what he told me at one time. [in fact the second and last time that I ever spoke with him. I have spoken with him for a total of maybe 10 minutes in my life.]
The first time I met him, I exposed his public lies to the branch, so he annonced that I was born of Adversary's seed. The second time I met him, he did not remember me.
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skyrider
Galen, others probably know better than I do......but here's the simple version:
Corps Director --- Oversees the corps program, establishes corps policies and procedures and gives directives to the corps coordinators. The corps director was responsible to report back to board of trustees and/or trustee responsible for said campus.
Corps Coordinator-- Oversees executive committee of corps campus, receives directives from corps director, coordinates work with assistant corps coordinator and oversees all corps activities.
Remember......at one time, there were five corps campus locations....hq, rome city, emporia, gunnison and tinnie, new mexico.
With your remark about Stxve Strxzpxc......he was the gunnison corps coordinator for several years, (1985-1991 ??).........martindale allegedly fired him for "not standing strongly with twi" or something along those lines. Gunnison staff, at the time, saw a much different version. With the Hornxys at gunnison at that time, some staffers were not blind.
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HCW
Thanks Oakspear.
No. I haven't read it...yet. Read exerpts though. If he served w/RB I can probably tell part of his story, never having met him.
RB, IMO, was part of a new generation of chosen, golden boys, fast trackers, at the head of the pack. I think he was WC7, which the general line on them was that they were "the Best" Corps group to date. I don't think I had ever met a 7th WC person that I didn't like, until RB. He seemed like a snake to me, and he wore those slick leather cowboy boots... ugh. Creeped me out.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'm thinking it was a pretty easy call for me. There really wasn't any greatness or in-depth spiritual perception required for me to see I was in over my head. "Imagine my delight" at waking (I'm a very light sleeper) up in the deep dark black dead quiet of night with my "WOW brother" sitting up on his bed staring at me with his "game face" on.
I think the "reality" struck me that the dark angry looking figure sitting accross the room was not just a "WOW Brother." He was a very angry and strong guy, who had he wished, could have awakened me with a very heavy blow to the head.
"It was heavy, he aint my BROTHER!" (my age shows.
--> catch the reference?)
During that year, God firmly stamped it right smack in the middle of my forehead that the WHOLE WAY MINISTRY had was equally inexperienced as I, to care for Jessee & Eric. In all of the more than 85 ministries of TWI there was NOTHING to take care of people who had actual, real psychological needs.
VPW was like, minister to them, cast their spirits, out; then love them with the love of God THAT'll heal them. LCM was oblivious; tyring so desparately to be the "world class athlete" he just KNEW he was. What was it the guy said during the presedential debate... "I knew world class athletes. LCM you are NO world class athletes."
Really. In high school I watched our guys (as a freshman on the bench) chase Tony Dorsett around the field for almost 200 yards while he single handedly routed our highly touted team. Played against Dan Marino too. It took four of us to sack him at times. He'd still get the ball the ball to receivers with a BUNCH of us hangin' all over him. It was a pretty clear comparison playin' flag football w/LCM @ HQ.
He (LCM) nazi'ed us even then. He ALWAYS had to be steady quarterback, for BOTH teams. We put up with it cause we wanted to play ball & had more pure fun, more actual competition when he wasn't there. HE wanted to call all the plays, some of which were pretty hokey. I don't think he quite grasped the concept that when you were on defense you'd have a pretty damn good idea what play he was gonna call.... seeing as he'd just tried the same play (that failed) when you were just on offense.
I digress....
Anyway, it seemed to me like admitting that people would need real psychotherapy sorta flew in the face of what TWI believed about healing. I'm sure you guys have been nazi'ed regarding health/injury issues, I know I have. It was as if admitting one had a problem was tantamount to some sort of 'godly' failure.
It isn't and wasn't.
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George Aar
HCW,
I think your W.O.W. year might be a lot more the norm than you may think.
Personally I had a "W.O.W. brother" who had a real penchant for starting fires. I'd come home and find big scorch marks on the countertop and the apartment would smell of smoke. I learned rather early on to keep matches or anything flammable out of his reach. (You can imagine what happened to our damage deposit) Then another one of the "family" decided to move in his girlfriend and her one-year-old. Then another decided it would be a great idea to get a local girl in a "family way". Oh, and then there was the night the cops came to arrest us all for kidnapping and rape. Yeah, it was a laugh riot.
And that's not even to mention the other W.O.W. family up the road from us a bit. The Corps "coordinator" thought that the best way to reprove one of his lesser family members was by shooting him in the head. Yeah, killed him graveyard dead. Wasn't that just special?
The W.O.W. program was an idiotic device designed to promote TWI and ultimately generate more income and bring more young girls into striking distance of the MOG and his minions.
The fact that people were put in untenable, or even downright dangerous situations couldn't have mattered less to them. They were getting theirs, and that's all that counted...
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excathedra
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jardinero
Really! Holy crap!
How'd they keep that one out of the news? I NEVER heard about it. What year?
J.
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George Aar
It was 1979-80, Alexander City, Alabama.
I won't mention the names here - actually I've forgotten the name of the killer - I didn't ever get to know him, but his victim I don't think I can forget.
Geeze, it's been 25 years now. The a-hole is probably out of jail. Unfortunately, his victim is still dead...
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HCW
Gee.
I hate these long posts.
Hey andrea!
It took quite a while...years. I felt like I should completely purge "wayspeak" from my vocabulary.
For as much as I felt I was "immune" or not under the spell, or levelheaded and "clear-eyed," I had to come to grips with the reality that the terminology, expressions and the like was part of the control mechanism. I found that using the terms had an "intoxicating" effect on me - - once I stopped using them.
I had developed a duality. A "Way" (innie) personality and an outie personality that I used when communicating to professionals and family members who, as I thought at the time, "just dodn't get the lingo."
It is the LINGO that brainwashed us ALL. At least to some degree. For example:
I just wrote, "...at least to some degree." WAYSPEAK for the same phrase would be something like....
"We were all brainwashed to the extent and in the proportion that we used wayspeak in our daily habit of language pattern."
I have actually used more wayspeak here on GS on the past two weeks than I have in the past 17yrs combined. Each time I do use a term or expression it has been under great "mental guard" with my new set of precautions each placing "the red dot" on it prepared to fire at will should the expression take ONE step towards controlling me again.
Huh? Hey HC? I though you present yourself as one of the "good ones?" One of the right fighters who stood against the tyranny that was/is TWI.
I do. Guilty as charged.
I've just grown and been healed enough to recognize precisely where I was, precisely what my culpability was or was NOT in the tyranny. That being said, I MUST acknowledge that there WAS a level of brainwashing I was under the influence of. There was a level of INSANITY that I held onto "with all my heart, soul, mind and strength."
I was crazy. Even if only a little. Crazy is CRAZY.
How many average Joe's would continue to live with a roomate who though you were gonna KILL him. How many would stop working so as to prove you didn't have money to pay RENT in order to "motivate" your "WOW Brothers" to "do the WOW Program." Huh????
There were "Way things" I did that I would never tell my older brother about while I was in. "Way things" I would never say while I talked to him.
Why????
I knew he would tell me I was crazy to even CONSIDER doing it. I knew HE knew I was raised better. I KNEW that HE KNEW .... that I KNEW ... BETTER.
But.
I did it anyway. AND I hid it from him and anyone else who certainly would have gotten in my face about it in any WAY. At least anybody whose opinion I actually cared about.
You could NEVER have convinced me of what I just wrote 20 years ago. Some tried. Failed. I "just KNEW THAT I KNEW THAT I KNEW" what I was doing.
No. I DIDN'T know, 'gnosko' anything about SOME of what I was actually contributing so "whole heartedly" to. I was an ENABLER. WE ALL were in some way shape or form. It was a measure of mind control that caused me to stay around HQ under constant mental anguish and abuse. Thinking I was holding the line for what was right. The subconscious stress was so great that my face broke out with razorbumps so badly that the bottom part of my face where my beardline grows was very much darker than the top.
I though it was "normal" because I have "sensitive skin." Now my face is all the same color. I didn't switch skincare products or shaving cream, or change my razors more often, etc. It gradually faded away. Even dealing with the intense emotional distress of divorce, bankruptcy, and custody battles for the lives of my children. Makes one go Hmmmmmmmmmmm......
It was only when I made a conscious decision to walk. I walked aWAY from The Way in every way and consciously determined that I would go back to how I talked before I associated myself with that group.
God held HIS world together for aproximately 2 THOUSAND, 9 HUNDRED 61 years before I was born. HE was in CHRIST, reconciling the world unto Himself lOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOnnnnnnnnnnnngg before I was a glimmer in my dad's horny eye. (He had one drunk one and one horny one
)
God doesn't NEED me.
He doesn't NEED me to stand FOR Him or HIS Word.
He doesn't need ME to move His Word over HIS World.
God LOVES me.
He would LOVE for me to KNOW his Word so I can come to KNOW Him, as MY Daddy.
He sent His SON to SAVE me.
The more I cone to KNOW HIS Word, the more I LOVE Him. I see Him more and more as MY Daddy.
My Daddy LOVES ME.
He would love IT if I told you what He did for ME.
BECAUSE. He did the same for YOU.
IF you KNEW that you would love HIM too.
AND.
You would love ME too,
for telling you.
And.
We TWO would love HIM too...
together.
That is ALL he wants from ME
and
YOU.
Clearing wayspeak from my head was the most vital component in clearing my head to really be ABLE to SEE the Word of God. I found myself engaging the first word in a wayspeak phrase and disengaging my brain. I would "slide through" the expression like the old kid's game, "Chutes & Ladders." ... Poof! I'd be on the other side of the chute, somewhere else, wherever that particular chute took me.
All that goes to say...
I would venture a guess that:
IF you still use wayspeak; their terms, expressions, "wayWords," even the meter of the cadence of the pattern of your thoughts - - all of it....EVEN the manner in which you engage or disengage from the sharings you read here...
To the extent and in the proportion wayspeak is a part of your life TWI still controls you.
SO. How long did it take? I view my involvement time w/TWI sorta like an alcholic. I've seen others here on GS make consistent references to the "alcholic pattern." TOTALLY agree, totally similar emotional state of being.
How long did it take?
Am I dead yet?
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HCW
I also realize you guys have probably had the "purging waySpeak" conversation before... some things bear repeating.
There. a short one.
The new guy's learning.
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