I've known TWI nazis that were corps and TWI nazis that were not. I knew Radar when she was in high school. If she became a corps nazi, it wasn't because she didn't have a good heart.
We were all corrupted and we all served TWI's purpose. Some joined the corps and gave their lives. Others, like myself, gave money and time. I'm sure there's forgiveness for both.
What we looked at......we became. [iI Cor. 3:18]
By beholding the simple truths of scripture.....one is changed into the same image.
By beholding and emulating twi leaders' walks...one is changed, better or worse.
By beholding twi's headquarters and policies....one is changed "corporately."
In the process of living life, change happens. ;)-->
Relax, Johnny. My point was that the leaders wanted to keep the corps off-balance, not that the training was cruel. And, as I said, as a dancer, I was used to discipline.
I'd just entered corps training right from a college dance schedule of 3 hours a day of dance technique class, followed by academic classes, followed by rehearsals into the evening. Five days a week, sometimes more. And I was an involved Wayfer on top of that (CWOW, apprentics corps).
I actually found the corps training itself to be no big deal, except that I had to gradually cut down on the physical stuff as my pregnancy progressed. I thought the "academic" classes were about the level of easy high school.
Yes, when vpw was on campus....there was a two-fold approach to gaining blind loyalty. At lunch time, we would be vp's "special kids"....and then, later he could berate us to the point of feeling guilty for breathing.
Few could (would?) imagine that vpw could level such vehement disgust with his corps. And, for some who were singled out.....it was a hellish thing from which to recover.
Your post spoke volumes for those of us who saw it, too.
Actually the first time I heard the term was when Paul M mentioned briefcase carrying Nazi Corps at an AC for grads. He used this description if reference to those that were running around overhauling TWI right after pop popped.
I have to admit at the time it did seem quite fitting as those that changed “gears” and started grinding them were more legalistic than the majority that stayed. Funny, it wasn’t long and the Loy wannabes soon passed the deserters in goose-stepping for their mog.
Q: What does an "abusive corps-nazis" do that distinguishes him from other corps?
A: Rip out the hearts from believers for pure enjoyment.
Q: Were there scores of these guys or was it relatively isolated?
A: I did meet a few who were not, though the ones who were certainly made a far greater impression on us than the 'good' ones. Again from the impression made by the first Corpse person I ever met [steve Strezpec in 1980] that impression lingered and may well have 'flavoured' all of our dealings with Corpse during the following 17 years.
Q: Why didn't the chain of command, vpw and/or lcm, stop these "abusing corps-nazis?"
A: I have no idea. I dont know what they were being taught.
Q: Did there need to be any leadership structure at all for "believers to work together?"
A: We were taught repeatedly that Twigs were to be self-supporting, take care of our own people's issues, help them minister to their needs first before sending aid to HQ. It did not help the few times that a corpse-person walked in and tore everyone apart.
Q: If abusive corps-nazis were working in your area and you saw this abuse (verbal?, emotional?, physical?, sexual?) then why stay with twi?
A: Verbal, oh yes. Emotional, of yes. Physical? No, would have filed police charges immediately. Sexual? No, not in any areas that I was aware of. Corpse blow in, they blow out, they rarely knew anyone's names, it would have been difficult for them to have done much more in the way of sexual, they would have needed to have stayed in the Branch areas for that to have happened.
Why stay in? Because really so few of the beleivers you deal with were Corpse, and commonly you could continue ministering to people for months sometimes years at a time without seeing a corpse, why let a few idiots get you down. There are a lot of people out there in need. Doing Word Studies together, running PFALs, cook-outs, helping each other out; what time was left for bothering whether a corpse was going to come through the state and screw everyone up?
In my case, I was usually living on-board a boat and running Protestant Services on-board, ministering to the crewmen. Bonnie was running the fellowship when I was out to sea or in shift-work [which was commonly 7-8 months a year]. Staying 'in' The Way International meant that there was a bigger organization behind it all. If someone was able to get leave approved during August then there was the Rock they could get permission to go to. Or if we surfaced somewhere new, we could call HQ and get phone numbers for local twigs, to take the young sailors to, rahter than pub-crawls.
Q: Have these abusive corps-nazis gained rank up to higher levels?
A: I have no idea. I would have needed to pay attention, or found a corpse to have asked about such-such person's assignments, bah. Let their Karma catch up with them, I have enough on my plate to concern myself with. I never saw any purpose in trying to find a corpse person to ask any quesitons of for such a purpose.
I have to agree with Grasshopper - the Corpse from the 90's were the worst Goose-stepping folks I've ever seen.
I'm not saying there weren't hard-@ss people in the earlier years - but I think there were more good, kind, caring individuals than there were control-freaks (as many have stated here).
The "Nazis" stood out to those of us who weren't that way. We knew who they were - we talked about them. ("Gawd - I'm so glad I didn't get sent to Florida, I couldn't stand being under (fill in the blank)'s leadership!")
In the 90's, as the Corps grew smaller, the people who signed up were more likely to be Kool-Aid drinkers - not people who thought they were going into the Corps to help others and "move the Word" like many of us did in the earlier years. They were people who aspired to be "dog soldiers for the truth", "committed disciples in the household", "prevailing ministers", etc. Not much was mentioned about love and giving and healing.
I had a few bad experiences with some of these "Corps Nazis".
One took place at the Advanced Class in 1995. I hadn't been to Rome City in 20 years and was feeling quite nostalgic about the "good old days" when I was there for the class. I told some stories to a few of the women in my room about the time when "Craig" did this, that or the other thing.
Later that week, a Corps woman approached me. She said that one of my roomates was in her A/C fellowship and was upset that I had referred to Rev-er-end-Mar-tin-dale as "Craig", that it was disrespectful and WHO did I think I was, etc.
Needless to say, I was disgusted. She didn't know me from Adam. I'd never seen her before either. So I got b!tchy. I told her that when I was in residence that everyone called Rev-er-end-Mar-tin-dale "Craig" and he never had a problem with it. She then told me that it was an "old wineskin" and wondered where I was coming from.
Since I was stuck in R/C without transportation and had to last another few days, I turned on my Stepford charm and told her I was sorry that it offended my roommate and that I'd be more careful around her from that point on.
I was also reproved by another Corps Hitler Youth when I made a comment about being sick of the "Singing Ladies" music at every session and meal. I knew that was a mistake the minute I heard myself say it!
I find it telling & symptomatic that the roomie couldn't talk to you about it, Hope. Instead she had to narc you out.
Reminds me of an incident my last year in rez. Me n a bud returned from the Country Kitchen late on night to find an 8th Corps guy passed out in front of Vollmer in his own puke..
Yeah, he was blotto. With the help of a few others, we dragged him to the showers, cleaned him & put him to bed. We excused him for breakfast, scored some alka-seltzer or similar and went to visit him afterwards.
Turned out he'd gotten his allowance and spent it that night eating & going on a drunk. Alone. why, we asked. after probing, it was because he hated himself, he said. So we tried to help him with that. Never occurred to us to tell anybody. Not a thought. He made it through that year, I know.
Later, when I was on staff, I noticed Corps people assigned to spy on other questionable Corps folks & report to M F**t. Seriously. Blew me away. We became something of an underground railroad for people leaving residence. Can't remember how that happened. Anyway, esprit de corps? NOT!
I would have to agree with Grasshopper as well. The nazis were in full swing by the 90s.
Though, I was in residence in the early 80's and things weren't anymore peachy keen either. Just, like you said, there seemed to be more of us than them at that time. Though I distinctly remember the 'nazis' were highly praised while I was there.
One incident that comes to mind is when at some point, it was made available for people to go on this 'cabbage soup diet'. People gained much weight it seemed while I was in residence. Hours of sitting in teachings...usually 4 hrs. in the day, and at least the same in the evening. We worked 4 hrs. but most of it was not labour intensive. Therefore, with the meals being served to us on our plates we tended to overeat especially when meal times droaned on for hours.
I remember the first time the diet was in effect, at least 2/3's of the campus participated.
Anyhow, the second time they had this diet...I did not wish to partake. But, my 'twig' begged and pleaded for me to go on it. Said it would be a group effort. I agreed. About a day into it, I realized this was NOT for me.
So, I politely told the kitchen crew that I would not be partaking and that I would rather have a regular meal.
There was no problem until...
A 10th corps nazi sat down at the table. We began to eat and she asked me why I was not doing the diet. As announcements had begun, I did not want to speak and be called out for interrupting, so I wrote her a brief note, stating that I had felt it was not right for me at the time.
She said nothing to me, but just smiled back.
As I was walking out of the dining room, I saw this same woman sitting with the Assistant Corps Coordinator's wife with both of them reading over the note I had written at supper.
I gasped.
I went up to the ASSistant CC's wife and said,"Yes, I wrote the note and if you care to speak to me, I will answer any questions you have."
That was it. It was over. I was raked over the coals for not knowing what commitment was. I was not salted. I didn't know what it meant to keep a vow...on and on and on. By the end of it all...i was left in a pool of tears, sitting on the steps of the library by myself. I was basically told I was worthless. At that moment, sitting on those stairs, this same ASSistant CC's wife Jud* Bedar*, walked by me. She saw my state. She saw the tears. She just kept walking and never looked my way.
YES.....THERE WERE CORPS NAZIS EVERYWHERE...EVEN IN 1981.
quote:I knew some wonderful corps in the 80s. Most left TWI, and the few that remained seemed to have changed.
quote:n my narrow book the only ones that were good were the ones who left and made full restitution to the poor bastards they .... over
and i haven't seen too much of that
Speaking as an 11th Corps grad. The term Nazi Corps is somewhat new to me. I hadn't seem much of the behavior I've seen described here. Most of the nazi-like behavior I saw & experienced was directed at other Corps; heavy handed "leadership" trying to force people to bow to their will or populate their mini kingdoms is what I saw.
I would add to the discussion that those of us Corps who didn't leave voluntarily were thrown out. Myself included. I came into The Way Corps because I wanted to develop my leadership skills and be like the interim 5th, 6th, 7th and even 8th Corps in terms of the leadership qualities they exhibited.
I wanted, within myself to personify The Way Corps poem; particularly the part that said:
"... equipped believers, ambassadors strong and wise,
Who teach because they love the teacher's task.
And find their richest prize in minds that open,
And in hearts that ask."
I would dare to say that most of us who left were ones who wanted to live that ideal also. I can't emphasize THIS point enough....
THEY THREW ME OUT.
Maybe I was just insubordinate.
Well. I DID get into a lot of arguments about the way we did stuff. Like the time I went ballistic over a Way Magazine cover I was doing. Any of you remember the one that had these shiny gold letters that said, "THE WORD OF GOD IS THE WILL OF GOD" on a blue background???
What was the argument? I went ballistic over that? Why? MY original, approved, design had an open Bible behind the big gold letters.
They ordered me to take the Bible out of the illustration. "We don't need the Bible in the illustration, it takes away from the words, 'The WORD of God is The WILL of God." is what they said.
I went ballistic. We argued. I REFUSED to take it out. They wanted me to paint over top of the Bible that was already done. They didn't care if I missed the production deadline, "Just take it out." they said.
I said, flat out, "NO. As long as I work here and have breath in my body...
I will NEVER take the BIBLE out of ANYTHING we do."
Since I wouldn't do it, they had the printer take the Bible out in prepress. I also refused to manage that part of it as I usualy did when I did a cover. I told them I didn't care how well it was or wsan't done, what they were doing was WRONG, and I wouldn't be a part of it.
Later, they took ME, and basically everyone LIKE me out of EVERYTHING they do.
I know you've heard this a thousand times before, but those NAZI CORPS types were not "really" Corps. At least to me and many others who tried our best to BE our best for GOD's people."
Unfortunately, however, it appears the NAZI thinking started at "the root" and grew out from there.
For what its worth. Please accept my heartfelt apology for any wrong purpetrated by anyone in the thane of The Corps. There was a time when the green name tag meant something good. I was told that if you ever needed anything, any help with any thing, just ask someone with a green name tag. They'll help you.
From what I'm hearing, that concept has become unimaginable. Now its more like M&A the green taggers.
It started okay (not great, but okay) regarding the kindness of the corps and got worse through my involvement.
When I first got involved there were corps all over my area and most were pretty nice. There was one couple I never felt comfortable around, they were elitist, distant and very regimented. I hardly ever saw them smile and they always seemed so serious. They had a beautiful home and it was custom built to be able to run classes. (a little overboard, ya think?)
When the full time status came down they had to sell their beautiful home, quit their high paying jobs and move to a very tiny apartment in another state. (Not that I missed them or anything, but this was the beginning of the nazi era for them, I think because I heard they became worse once they left.)
All the other corps had to sell their homes and move, too. Then we had a couple come in that was young and pretty nice. They were having money problems from day 1 because of the restrictions put on the corps, but they were nice. I think they are still nice from what I hear.
After they got relocated a corps family moved in and I didn't get to meet them right away, but they came in, shook things up and started setting rules and getting all kinds of information about people and establishing "favorites" right off the bat. I worked hard to be a "favorite" because that was my nature. Then we got a new lc and everything started getting more legalistic, regimented and controlling.
This was the first time I ever heard of someone getting M&A and it was at a branch meeting where the corps took turns standing up in front of all of us and telling us all the dirty laundry on this person. Things kids didn't need to hear and all while the person's family was sitting right there, too. I was shocked and embarrassed. I didn't know what to do or think.
It only got worse from there. I stayed because, I think, nothing happened to me and I wasn't directly affected by things until later on. Once we got new corps grads from the lcm regime in our area things really went wild and I was always listening to them yell at me, my husband or various groups that I was in for any stupid reason. It got old real quick, but I stayed still because I didn't want to sacrifice my family for some group. Unfortunately my husband saw things differently.
Some of the things we got yelled at about:
- not bringing any new people to fellowship (the whole fellowship got "reproved" on this)
- not buying the scripture reading tapes they put out
- not buying the new "prevailing word" edition of the collaterals
- not teaching people who can't sing to sing quietly so as to not make the whole fellowship sound bad
- for offering a put put golf pass to the corps when they aren't supposed to receive gifts
- for not kicking a guy out of a branch meeting for out-dressing the corps leading the meeting
- for making noise during a class
- for not standing when a corps person came into the room - nevermind the fact that he came in through the back door of the room so all of us had our back to him and couldn't see him come in
- for not convincing someone in our fellowship to sell their home
Stupid shlt! I'm ashamed that I put up with it and that I felt bad for not doing what they wanted us to do.
Wow that sure is stupid sh1t. Why am I not surprised?
Ha ha ha ha ha the guy came in the back and you didn't stand!
Reminds me of the birthday party we threw for a branch leader and then got yelled at by branch leader's wife because it wasn't "respectful" enough. Then they "punished" us by cancelling all Sunday morning meetings.
1. Being reproved for showing up to a meeting five minutes early, instead of ten.
2. Being told to bring my children to fellowship then being reproved for bringing them (yes this really did happen). My ex husband and I were both opposed to bringing them, they were too young, but our fellowship coordinators insisted (even though they didn't make their own children stay up for fellowship). I was later publicly reproved by the limb coordinator for bringing them to fellowship meetings.
3. Same fellowship coordinators insisted we bring our children to the viewing of the Martin Luther movie so we wouldn't have to miss it (like we hadn't already seen it countless times). So we brought them and naturally at 1 and 3 they couldn't sit still through it - I didn't even try to make them. But I could see my ex fuming because I refused to use the spoon and make them sit still through a 2 hour movie that meant nothing to them. I knew I was going to catch hell when I got home, so in an effort to circumvent that, I once again approached my fellowship coordinator about NOT bringing them in the future.
The result was that hereproved me for bringing them to the movie. He yelled at me and swore at me in front of everyone.
When it was over a number of people approached me and told me how they knew I only brought the kids cause FC told me too - but all of them were to chicken .... to say anything to him to that effect.
4. Being reproved for calling the branch coordinator when my husband started in on me, after being told by the branch coordinator I was to call him if he started in on me again.
5. Being told I could not go stay with my friend at the hospital while here little girl had a bone graft to repair her broken neck. I was told she no longer fellowshipped in our area (though she was still with TWI) and the people in her area would take care of her (she had only moved there a couple of weeks before the surgery and didn't really know anyone yet). I climbed his head and went to the region coordinator who actually (gasp) backed me up on going.
6. Being told I was to smack my two year old son with a spoon for not sitting still during fellowship (another one which I just couldn't do - I used to take him out of the room and hit my own leg so they would think I was doing it).
quote:6. Being told I was to smack my two year old son with a spoon for not sitting still during fellowship (another one which I just couldn't do - I used to take him out of the room and hit my own leg so they would think I was doing it).
Somebody needed to hit the coordinator. I hope he'll have some explaining to do someday.
quote:1. Being reproved for showing up to a meeting five minutes early, instead of ten.
I was once reproved for showing up FIFTEEN minutes early instead of ten. Idiot BC stood at the door with an annoyed look on his face; later told us that coming early was disruptive to them. It didn't help when I pointed out that Twig Leader guidelines said that the home that was hosting fellowship should be ready an hour ahead of time.
Loved your list! A funny event like one of those happened with me right after I left HQ after 9 years of Staff.The culprit....OUR FAVORITE region coordinator....BOB!
At some sort of twig or branch meeting he reproved me for not owning the SINGING LADIES OF THE WAY CD. He was all over me...I was mortified. Afer his tirade, he asked me WHY I DID NOT OWN THE SINGING LADIES CD. With a complete straight face....I said VERY LOUDLY....that I DID NOT OWN A CD PLAYER!!! But I had TWO COPIES OF THE TAPE! :D-->
OH.....If I could have only had a video of THAT moment.
SO FREAKING MUCH GARBAGE!!!
And Abi.....I apologize to you on behalf of every corps person, every staff person and every person that has ever worked in the twi trunk office. I am ashamed......but NOT surprised.
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excathedra
the cruelty of the corps program hurt me very much as a result i think i was kinder to others
alfakat
lesssee, watered garden, you were in Ft. Worth, right??? (I was in Albuquerque that same year) so I am thinkin' your wunnerful BC was a sewin' type o' gal, with a syrupy Southern accent and initials o
HCW
...It was. It DID happen A LOT. I'm thinking now that people being thrust into leadership roles they were not prepared for was more the norm than the exception. Even in "the old days" speak so fondly
skyrider
What we looked at......we became. [iI Cor. 3:18]
By beholding the simple truths of scripture.....one is changed into the same image.
By beholding and emulating twi leaders' walks...one is changed, better or worse.
By beholding twi's headquarters and policies....one is changed "corporately."
In the process of living life, change happens.
;)-->
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shazdancer
Relax, Johnny. My point was that the leaders wanted to keep the corps off-balance, not that the training was cruel. And, as I said, as a dancer, I was used to discipline.
I'd just entered corps training right from a college dance schedule of 3 hours a day of dance technique class, followed by academic classes, followed by rehearsals into the evening. Five days a week, sometimes more. And I was an involved Wayfer on top of that (CWOW, apprentics corps).
I actually found the corps training itself to be no big deal, except that I had to gradually cut down on the physical stuff as my pregnancy progressed. I thought the "academic" classes were about the level of easy high school.
I hope that clarifies,
Shaz
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skyrider
Shaz, your earlier post was insightful. Thanks.
Yes, when vpw was on campus....there was a two-fold approach to gaining blind loyalty. At lunch time, we would be vp's "special kids"....and then, later he could berate us to the point of feeling guilty for breathing.
Few could (would?) imagine that vpw could level such vehement disgust with his corps. And, for some who were singled out.....it was a hellish thing from which to recover.
Your post spoke volumes for those of us who saw it, too.
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wingnut
Actually the first time I heard the term was when Paul M mentioned briefcase carrying Nazi Corps at an AC for grads. He used this description if reference to those that were running around overhauling TWI right after pop popped.
I have to admit at the time it did seem quite fitting as those that changed “gears” and started grinding them were more legalistic than the majority that stayed. Funny, it wasn’t long and the Loy wannabes soon passed the deserters in goose-stepping for their mog.
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A la prochaine
Exxie,
I'll have to ditto that one sista'
Sky,
Q: What does an "abusive corps-nazis" do that distinguishes him from other corps?
A: The corps nazi does exactly what he is told to the letter.
Q: Were there scores of these guys or was it relatively isolated?
A: I used to think that the 'corps-nazis' I had the painful experience of living under were relatively isolated, but not after I arrived here on GS.
Q: Why didn't the chain of command, vpw and/or lcm, stop these "abusing corps-nazis?"
A: Because they were part of the problem. They were proud of these 'corps' because they were doing what they had been taught.
Q: Were these corps-nazis simply following orders from corps meetings?
A: Yes, often they were. And therefore, if they ripped someone's heart out of their chests in
doing so, they felt vindicated because they were doing what they were told.
Q: Did there need to be any leadership structure at all for "believers to work together?"
A: I believe 99% of these problems could have been solved by just being decent human beings.
More structure is NOT what was needed...thank you!!! It's a heart thing when it comes to God and his people.
Q: If abusive corps-nazis were working in your area and you saw this abuse(verbal?, emotional?, physical?, sexual?) then why stay with twi?
A: I always believed that my abusive experiences were just isolated. I pathetically thought
that if VP/LCM were to hear of these doings, they would have been apalled. MAN, was I wrong.
Q: Have these abusive corps-nazis gained rank up to higher levels?
A: Absolutely!
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skyrider
wingnut,
I must admit.....for years I was a twi loyalist
BUT a loy wannabe......NEVER.
--> 
******************
A la prochaine,
Thanks for answering my questions, in detail...
And........thanks for educating my heart.
:)-->
((((a la))))
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Galen
Sky,
Q: What does an "abusive corps-nazis" do that distinguishes him from other corps?
A: Rip out the hearts from believers for pure enjoyment.
Q: Were there scores of these guys or was it relatively isolated?
A: I did meet a few who were not, though the ones who were certainly made a far greater impression on us than the 'good' ones. Again from the impression made by the first Corpse person I ever met [steve Strezpec in 1980] that impression lingered and may well have 'flavoured' all of our dealings with Corpse during the following 17 years.
Q: Why didn't the chain of command, vpw and/or lcm, stop these "abusing corps-nazis?"
A: I have no idea. I dont know what they were being taught.
Q: Did there need to be any leadership structure at all for "believers to work together?"
A: We were taught repeatedly that Twigs were to be self-supporting, take care of our own people's issues, help them minister to their needs first before sending aid to HQ. It did not help the few times that a corpse-person walked in and tore everyone apart.
Q: If abusive corps-nazis were working in your area and you saw this abuse (verbal?, emotional?, physical?, sexual?) then why stay with twi?
A: Verbal, oh yes. Emotional, of yes. Physical? No, would have filed police charges immediately. Sexual? No, not in any areas that I was aware of. Corpse blow in, they blow out, they rarely knew anyone's names, it would have been difficult for them to have done much more in the way of sexual, they would have needed to have stayed in the Branch areas for that to have happened.
Why stay in? Because really so few of the beleivers you deal with were Corpse, and commonly you could continue ministering to people for months sometimes years at a time without seeing a corpse, why let a few idiots get you down. There are a lot of people out there in need. Doing Word Studies together, running PFALs, cook-outs, helping each other out; what time was left for bothering whether a corpse was going to come through the state and screw everyone up?
In my case, I was usually living on-board a boat and running Protestant Services on-board, ministering to the crewmen. Bonnie was running the fellowship when I was out to sea or in shift-work [which was commonly 7-8 months a year]. Staying 'in' The Way International meant that there was a bigger organization behind it all. If someone was able to get leave approved during August then there was the Rock they could get permission to go to. Or if we surfaced somewhere new, we could call HQ and get phone numbers for local twigs, to take the young sailors to, rahter than pub-crawls.
Q: Have these abusive corps-nazis gained rank up to higher levels?
A: I have no idea. I would have needed to pay attention, or found a corpse to have asked about such-such person's assignments, bah. Let their Karma catch up with them, I have enough on my plate to concern myself with. I never saw any purpose in trying to find a corpse person to ask any quesitons of for such a purpose.
:-)
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skyrider
WOW, Galen......
First-hand accounts like yours and a la's vividly illustrate how destructive TWI's corps program is to their followers.
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Hope R.
I have to agree with Grasshopper - the Corpse from the 90's were the worst Goose-stepping folks I've ever seen.
I'm not saying there weren't hard-@ss people in the earlier years - but I think there were more good, kind, caring individuals than there were control-freaks (as many have stated here).
The "Nazis" stood out to those of us who weren't that way. We knew who they were - we talked about them. ("Gawd - I'm so glad I didn't get sent to Florida, I couldn't stand being under (fill in the blank)'s leadership!")
In the 90's, as the Corps grew smaller, the people who signed up were more likely to be Kool-Aid drinkers - not people who thought they were going into the Corps to help others and "move the Word" like many of us did in the earlier years. They were people who aspired to be "dog soldiers for the truth", "committed disciples in the household", "prevailing ministers", etc. Not much was mentioned about love and giving and healing.
I had a few bad experiences with some of these "Corps Nazis".
One took place at the Advanced Class in 1995. I hadn't been to Rome City in 20 years and was feeling quite nostalgic about the "good old days" when I was there for the class. I told some stories to a few of the women in my room about the time when "Craig" did this, that or the other thing.
Later that week, a Corps woman approached me. She said that one of my roomates was in her A/C fellowship and was upset that I had referred to Rev-er-end-Mar-tin-dale as "Craig", that it was disrespectful and WHO did I think I was, etc.
Needless to say, I was disgusted. She didn't know me from Adam. I'd never seen her before either. So I got b!tchy. I told her that when I was in residence that everyone called Rev-er-end-Mar-tin-dale "Craig" and he never had a problem with it. She then told me that it was an "old wineskin" and wondered where I was coming from.
Since I was stuck in R/C without transportation and had to last another few days, I turned on my Stepford charm and told her I was sorry that it offended my roommate and that I'd be more careful around her from that point on.
I was also reproved by another Corps Hitler Youth when I made a comment about being sick of the "Singing Ladies" music at every session and meal. I knew that was a mistake the minute I heard myself say it!
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TheEvan
I find it telling & symptomatic that the roomie couldn't talk to you about it, Hope. Instead she had to narc you out.
Reminds me of an incident my last year in rez. Me n a bud returned from the Country Kitchen late on night to find an 8th Corps guy passed out in front of Vollmer in his own puke..
Yeah, he was blotto. With the help of a few others, we dragged him to the showers, cleaned him & put him to bed. We excused him for breakfast, scored some alka-seltzer or similar and went to visit him afterwards.
Turned out he'd gotten his allowance and spent it that night eating & going on a drunk. Alone. why, we asked. after probing, it was because he hated himself, he said. So we tried to help him with that. Never occurred to us to tell anybody. Not a thought. He made it through that year, I know.
Later, when I was on staff, I noticed Corps people assigned to spy on other questionable Corps folks & report to M F**t. Seriously. Blew me away. We became something of an underground railroad for people leaving residence. Can't remember how that happened. Anyway, esprit de corps? NOT!
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A la prochaine
Hope,
I would have to agree with Grasshopper as well. The nazis were in full swing by the 90s.
Though, I was in residence in the early 80's and things weren't anymore peachy keen either. Just, like you said, there seemed to be more of us than them at that time. Though I distinctly remember the 'nazis' were highly praised while I was there.
One incident that comes to mind is when at some point, it was made available
for people to go on this 'cabbage soup diet'. People gained much weight it seemed while I was in residence. Hours of sitting in teachings...usually 4 hrs. in the day, and at least the same in the evening. We worked 4 hrs. but most of it was not labour intensive. Therefore, with the meals being served to us on our plates we tended to overeat especially when meal times droaned on for hours.
I remember the first time the diet was in effect, at least 2/3's of the campus participated.
Anyhow, the second time they had this diet...I did not wish to partake. But, my 'twig' begged and pleaded for me to go on it. Said it would be a group effort. I agreed. About a day into it, I realized this was NOT for me.
So, I politely told the kitchen crew that I would not be partaking and that I would rather have a regular meal.
There was no problem until...
A 10th corps nazi sat down at the table. We began to eat and she asked me why I was not doing the diet. As announcements had begun, I did not want to speak and be called out for interrupting, so I wrote her a brief note, stating that I had felt it was not right for me at the time.
She said nothing to me, but just smiled back.
As I was walking out of the dining room, I saw this same woman sitting with the Assistant Corps Coordinator's wife with both of them reading over the note I had written at supper.
I gasped.
I went up to the ASSistant CC's wife and said,"Yes, I wrote the note and if you care to speak to me, I will answer any questions you have."
That was it. It was over. I was raked over the coals for not knowing what commitment was. I was not salted. I didn't know what it meant to keep a vow...on and on and on. By the end of it all...i was left in a pool of tears, sitting on the steps of the library by myself. I was basically told I was worthless. At that moment, sitting on those stairs, this same ASSistant CC's wife Jud* Bedar*, walked by me. She saw my state. She saw the tears. She just kept walking and never looked my way.
YES.....THERE WERE CORPS NAZIS EVERYWHERE...EVEN IN 1981.
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HCW
Speaking as an 11th Corps grad. The term Nazi Corps is somewhat new to me. I hadn't seem much of the behavior I've seen described here. Most of the nazi-like behavior I saw & experienced was directed at other Corps; heavy handed "leadership" trying to force people to bow to their will or populate their mini kingdoms is what I saw.
I would add to the discussion that those of us Corps who didn't leave voluntarily were thrown out. Myself included. I came into The Way Corps because I wanted to develop my leadership skills and be like the interim 5th, 6th, 7th and even 8th Corps in terms of the leadership qualities they exhibited.
I wanted, within myself to personify The Way Corps poem; particularly the part that said:
"... equipped believers, ambassadors strong and wise,
Who teach because they love the teacher's task.
And find their richest prize in minds that open,
And in hearts that ask."
I would dare to say that most of us who left were ones who wanted to live that ideal also. I can't emphasize THIS point enough....
THEY THREW ME OUT.
Maybe I was just insubordinate.
Well. I DID get into a lot of arguments about the way we did stuff. Like the time I went ballistic over a Way Magazine cover I was doing. Any of you remember the one that had these shiny gold letters that said, "THE WORD OF GOD IS THE WILL OF GOD" on a blue background???
What was the argument? I went ballistic over that? Why? MY original, approved, design had an open Bible behind the big gold letters.
They ordered me to take the Bible out of the illustration. "We don't need the Bible in the illustration, it takes away from the words, 'The WORD of God is The WILL of God." is what they said.
I went ballistic. We argued. I REFUSED to take it out. They wanted me to paint over top of the Bible that was already done. They didn't care if I missed the production deadline, "Just take it out." they said.
I said, flat out, "NO. As long as I work here and have breath in my body...
I will NEVER take the BIBLE out of ANYTHING we do."
Since I wouldn't do it, they had the printer take the Bible out in prepress. I also refused to manage that part of it as I usualy did when I did a cover. I told them I didn't care how well it was or wsan't done, what they were doing was WRONG, and I wouldn't be a part of it.
Later, they took ME, and basically everyone LIKE me out of EVERYTHING they do.
I know you've heard this a thousand times before, but those NAZI CORPS types were not "really" Corps. At least to me and many others who tried our best to BE our best for GOD's people."
Unfortunately, however, it appears the NAZI thinking started at "the root" and grew out from there.
For what its worth. Please accept my heartfelt apology for any wrong purpetrated by anyone in the thane of The Corps. There was a time when the green name tag meant something good. I was told that if you ever needed anything, any help with any thing, just ask someone with a green name tag. They'll help you.
From what I'm hearing, that concept has become unimaginable. Now its more like M&A the green taggers.
Do they still even use green nametags?
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WordWolf
Pardon the interruption, but I felt the need to make a Public Service Announcement.
"What constitutes a school?
Not ancient halls and ivy-mantled towers,
Where dull traditions rule
With heavy hand youth's lightly springing powers.
Not spacious pleasure courts,
And lofty temples of athletic fame,
Where devotees of sports
Mistake a pasttime for life's highest aim.
Not fashion, nor renown
Of wealthy patronage and rich estate,
No, none of these can crown
A school with light and make it truly great.
But masters, strong and wise,
Who teach because they love the teacher's task,
and find their richest prize
In eyes that open and in minds that ask."
By HENRY VAN DYKE.
========
I felt the need to document the actual SOURCE of the poem we were led to be
"original" to twi.
Like the others, it wasn't.
Sorry to interrupt. Carry on, everyone.
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excathedra
a la prochaine, what you posted really stinks, but boy, way too common
humiliate and shame people, make them feel like worthless scum.... yeah, that'll get 'em more committed
evan, that was a nice story about kindness
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Belle
It started okay (not great, but okay) regarding the kindness of the corps and got worse through my involvement.
When I first got involved there were corps all over my area and most were pretty nice. There was one couple I never felt comfortable around, they were elitist, distant and very regimented. I hardly ever saw them smile and they always seemed so serious. They had a beautiful home and it was custom built to be able to run classes. (a little overboard, ya think?)
When the full time status came down they had to sell their beautiful home, quit their high paying jobs and move to a very tiny apartment in another state. (Not that I missed them or anything, but this was the beginning of the nazi era for them, I think because I heard they became worse once they left.)
All the other corps had to sell their homes and move, too. Then we had a couple come in that was young and pretty nice. They were having money problems from day 1 because of the restrictions put on the corps, but they were nice. I think they are still nice from what I hear.
After they got relocated a corps family moved in and I didn't get to meet them right away, but they came in, shook things up and started setting rules and getting all kinds of information about people and establishing "favorites" right off the bat. I worked hard to be a "favorite" because that was my nature. Then we got a new lc and everything started getting more legalistic, regimented and controlling.
This was the first time I ever heard of someone getting M&A and it was at a branch meeting where the corps took turns standing up in front of all of us and telling us all the dirty laundry on this person. Things kids didn't need to hear and all while the person's family was sitting right there, too. I was shocked and embarrassed. I didn't know what to do or think.
It only got worse from there. I stayed because, I think, nothing happened to me and I wasn't directly affected by things until later on. Once we got new corps grads from the lcm regime in our area things really went wild and I was always listening to them yell at me, my husband or various groups that I was in for any stupid reason. It got old real quick, but I stayed still because I didn't want to sacrifice my family for some group. Unfortunately my husband saw things differently.
Some of the things we got yelled at about:
- not bringing any new people to fellowship (the whole fellowship got "reproved" on this)
- not buying the scripture reading tapes they put out
- not buying the new "prevailing word" edition of the collaterals
- not teaching people who can't sing to sing quietly so as to not make the whole fellowship sound bad
- for offering a put put golf pass to the corps when they aren't supposed to receive gifts
- for not kicking a guy out of a branch meeting for out-dressing the corps leading the meeting
- for making noise during a class
- for not standing when a corps person came into the room - nevermind the fact that he came in through the back door of the room so all of us had our back to him and couldn't see him come in
- for not convincing someone in our fellowship to sell their home
Stupid shlt! I'm ashamed that I put up with it and that I felt bad for not doing what they wanted us to do.
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outandabout
Wow that sure is stupid sh1t. Why am I not surprised?
Ha ha ha ha ha the guy came in the back and you didn't stand!
Reminds me of the birthday party we threw for a branch leader and then got yelled at by branch leader's wife because it wasn't "respectful" enough. Then they "punished" us by cancelling all Sunday morning meetings.
Natzis!!!!
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skyrider
While in two or three corps/staff situations.....VPW did this..
SAME REPROOF-RAISIN' RESULT!
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Watered Garden
I remember LCM telling the FWC once (loudly as usual):
"There's not a one of you who is worthy of the privilege of carrying my jock strap!"
That would definitely be abuse!
Yuck-o!
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excathedra
what a sucking joke
dearest lurker innie, you have to think about stuff like this. i swear, you gotta love abuse. been there done that myself. best of luck, really. hugs.
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Abigail
1. Being reproved for showing up to a meeting five minutes early, instead of ten.
2. Being told to bring my children to fellowship then being reproved for bringing them (yes this really did happen). My ex husband and I were both opposed to bringing them, they were too young, but our fellowship coordinators insisted (even though they didn't make their own children stay up for fellowship). I was later publicly reproved by the limb coordinator for bringing them to fellowship meetings.
3. Same fellowship coordinators insisted we bring our children to the viewing of the Martin Luther movie so we wouldn't have to miss it (like we hadn't already seen it countless times). So we brought them and naturally at 1 and 3 they couldn't sit still through it - I didn't even try to make them. But I could see my ex fuming because I refused to use the spoon and make them sit still through a 2 hour movie that meant nothing to them. I knew I was going to catch hell when I got home, so in an effort to circumvent that, I once again approached my fellowship coordinator about NOT bringing them in the future.
The result was that hereproved me for bringing them to the movie. He yelled at me and swore at me in front of everyone.
When it was over a number of people approached me and told me how they knew I only brought the kids cause FC told me too - but all of them were to chicken .... to say anything to him to that effect.
4. Being reproved for calling the branch coordinator when my husband started in on me, after being told by the branch coordinator I was to call him if he started in on me again.
5. Being told I could not go stay with my friend at the hospital while here little girl had a bone graft to repair her broken neck. I was told she no longer fellowshipped in our area (though she was still with TWI) and the people in her area would take care of her (she had only moved there a couple of weeks before the surgery and didn't really know anyone yet). I climbed his head and went to the region coordinator who actually (gasp) backed me up on going.
6. Being told I was to smack my two year old son with a spoon for not sitting still during fellowship (another one which I just couldn't do - I used to take him out of the room and hit my own leg so they would think I was doing it).
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excathedra
gosh ab, you went in the corps and you didn't even know it....
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Jim
Somebody needed to hit the coordinator. I hope he'll have some explaining to do someday.
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Oakspear
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Radar OReilly
Belle,
Loved your list! A funny event like one of those happened with me right after I left HQ after 9 years of Staff.The culprit....OUR FAVORITE region coordinator....BOB!
At some sort of twig or branch meeting he reproved me for not owning the SINGING LADIES OF THE WAY CD. He was all over me...I was mortified. Afer his tirade, he asked me WHY I DID NOT OWN THE SINGING LADIES CD. With a complete straight face....I said VERY LOUDLY....that I DID NOT OWN A CD PLAYER!!! But I had TWO COPIES OF THE TAPE!
:D-->
OH.....If I could have only had a video of THAT moment.
SO FREAKING MUCH GARBAGE!!!
And Abi.....I apologize to you on behalf of every corps person, every staff person and every person that has ever worked in the twi trunk office. I am ashamed......but NOT surprised.
ror
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