From how little I know John B, I don't think is so much a matter of him being p wipped by leadership as much as he IS leadership of sorts.
The vacuum left behind by Craig, and the lack of charisma at HQ, has de-centralized a lot of the leadership, and lots of locals are somewhat taking up the torch of running on their own.
So each local area has leaders acting on their old (but somewhat revised after Craig's departure) playbooks, with a weakened role of HQ.
The Geer group has gone through much the same thing.
*****
That said:
I think SOME of the impenetrability of TWI (local or central HQ) is akin to the circled wagons metaphor.
But I think an EVEN BETTER metaphor is the movie "Fail Safe."
The pilot in that movie was doing everything right according to the playbook.
I've mention this before here. It's like they're doing thing by "the book" but can't see that the book is outdated or misapplied. Their intentions are often good, but the have gotten tricked into a deep rut of misapplying them.
This happens all the time with people. I've seen it happen to me. It's a social dynamic the adversary often cashes in on all the time, with varying degrees of power and destruction involved.
I've heard that the Spanish Inquisition by the RCs hundreds of years ago was similar. The leaders were tricked into thinking that torture of heretics was the loving thing to do, to give them enough of a taste of hell before they died that they JUST MIGHT REPENT from the sin that would surely bring them to the real hell should they not repent. The leaders really started out with good intentions but got tricked into horrible misapplication of the power they had.
***
Here is how I've brought up the "Fail Safe" movie three times previous here. I'm too tired to include the dates and people I was responding to in all of these, but if anyone really wants to know I can re-find them all. I was too tired to remember when I was doing this paste up just now.
My position with The Way International is zilch. I try to call them by phone about once every two years just to see where they are at. They are pretty standoffish, but in recent years I sense a bit more willingness to talk. They've been pretty humbled by Craig's situation, but still don't receive well the fact that they too let Dr's last teaching slip right by unobeyed. I only know one person (non-leadership) who will allow me any kind of regular conversation.
I witness to the WAYGB here all the time. When I think of lurkers reading my posts I include them. Very much did slip by all of us, and there have been many different kinds of reactions. I sometimes see a similarity between the U.S. pilot in the movie "Fail Safe" and a lot of top leadership both in TWI-2 and all the splinter groups. They were trained to keep on their mission no matter what, but something went wrong in the communications, and they think they are doing the right thing, no matter how much people get hurt in the process. I see the same thing in many of the more prolific posters here. Blind dedication.
There was once something that did well bind us ALL together in great love and cooperation, and after ten fruitless and 5 fruitful years of searching out what it was, I post what I post. Someday the first wave of OLGs will come back to PFAL and see the magnificent treasure God placed in there for us. When that happens I believe EVEN the hard hearts in TWI and GSC will melt with love and appreciation.
You wrote: "I don't think Craig's failures were at all typical. They were/are pretty extraordinary."
Yes they were not typical or even comparable with ours, but they were still typical for those rare individuals who have THAT much power in their hands. I think if any of us had been given that much power we would have screwed it up even worse than Craig. Like I said, we had differing symptoms from Craig's, but we all had the same end result of not being able to effectively and consistently operate the revelation manifestations, which leads to an inability to operate the impartation manifestations. In this we are in the same boat as Craig.
***
You wrote: "But it's common for people with a fundamentalist view of things to see the world as black or white with no variance."
Yes again. I was pretty shocked when I re-read the "Fellowship Is the Secret" chapter in TNDC. In there it's very plain that fellowship is NOT a black and white thing, but has many shades of gray in between. The richness or fullness of our fellowship with the Father and His Son are laid out often in that chapter. It was the TVT (Twi's Verbal Tradition) that very starkly portrayed fellowship as either "in" or "out."
***
You wrote: "If you believe that people and actions are either "on the word" or "off the word" then there is no room for a whole range of motivations from mistaken, to misguided, to deliberatly evil, to narsacistic."
Yes again. I've several times posted here that I see a mental model of Craig and people like Craig being like the pilot in the 60's movie "Fail Safe" in their misapplication of training. Unlike that movie, though, I think Craig can recover from this, even Craig. There IS a way.
You wrote: "As for Rosalie, who cares what she does. The ministry was a money-making scam for the BOT and the sooner it dies, the better off we all will be."
I care very much about my family. Rosalie and all those people there have been through a lot.
I like to think no evil. I like to think that Rosalie and Co. painted themselves into a corner and are having a hard time recovering. I like to think that they are trying to help people, and are just misguided, just like a lot of grads who post here.
You may say that they were mean and nasty, but that happens every day on this board. The horrors we all experienced at TWI were very human, and in no way unique to TWI. All the Corpse Nazi traits I hated in TWI can be seen in poster activity here.
I care about people here who are nasty, and I care about Rosalie and TWI people. I think most of the nastiness here and there is due to people having a tough time dealing with all the crap. People get tricked into thinking the nastiness is necessary. Just ask some of those who are nasty to me, and they will tell you they have noble intentions. I often think of the movie "Fail Safe" and see runnaway pilots who think they are acting on their training, but are actually hurting people.
When you start caring about your enemies, then you are starting to put on the love of Christ. Anyone can love those who are nice to them, but when we start trying to love our enemies, THEN we are starting to grow.
In summary of this metaphor: in the movie the inability of the President and S.A.C. Commanders to get through to the pilot (if my memory is accurate) to stop him from dropping the bomb was due to some kind of radio code glitch? They just couldn't get the right code communicated to the pilot, so the pilot continued on with doing the job as he had been trained.
The only way to get through to TWI (as well as to ALL grads hell bent on destruction) is to get the code right: love.
The only way to get the love right is to get it straight from the True source of love, God.
The only way to get to God is to know His will, his Word... accurately.
I'm honored that you spent your first post on me! :)-->
I'm curious, though, how it is that your post footer says that you have zero posts? Maybe it's just a software glitch. Maybe it will kick up when you post again.
Yep.. typical. Come to think of it, "da webmaster" is not even an employee of da vey inc. What a pathetic existence.
Still don't think he got "the beating' of his life? And probably from some young snot nosed friggin Hitler type but-somehow-debt-free son of a bitch. I have seen stuff like this before my very eyes- in the early nineties, these were the kind of leaders sent out to "tenderly lead" the flock. And they showed some real zeal in carrying out their mission. They are here to stay. Last I checked, some of the worst are now responsible for whole REGIONS.
Even in "da good ole days" (EARLY seventies) I saw stuff that would curl your hair (or straighten it if it was curly to begin with..).
I witnessed first hand how a group of leaders put their wives "in their proper place" for attempting to inject a little logic in a planning session. Not a public meeting. No MOG type being held up for ridicule or anything even remotely resembling that. A private, informal, gathering. What they did, you DO NOT want to know. The only thing I will say is that the women could have pressed criminal charges if they chose to do so.
Somehow things are supposed to be so much better now. I wonder what it is like to be a "wife of the way" now.
Somehow, this fifty-some year old guy just sits back and takes it- deluding himself that somehow this is all God's will. I am not saying he's evil- I would give him the benefit of doubt- probably the nicest guy you could know. Sadly, the nicest people in that outfit are targeted with the worst treatment.
The nicest believers in our area were the first target of inquisition and expulsion. I am only "partly nice" and somewhat logical- took them a little longer to get around to me. Only partly mean at times. I guess I'm not quite "the right material".
They've just got him convinced (or more "accurately" more conditioned than Pavlov's dog) that the cold stove is hot. Touch it and you're "possessed". "How many devils do you see? "You must be kidding. I can't see any devils there.." Zapppp- "wrong, bucko.."
I was there too at one time.. saw devils under every rock, in every civic organization, behind every tree. Behind almost any motive. Add to this that I was not in the inner circle.. this guy is CORPS. The most dedicated, committed they've got. So who really "runs" that website? No question in my mind.
Nope. One of the guys was originally from Pa. A real idiot. The head honcho was like, 3rd or 4th corps- don't think he was 2nd. The event was long long ago in a state far far away.. but I remember it like it was yesterday.
You can still see the movie "Fail Safe." I did NOT give away the ending by a long shot! What I spelled out is the early setup of the plot. The ending gets VERY hairy.
Henry Fonda played the President, but it was so many years ago (over 35) that I can't remember anyone else in it.
I think it came out right around the same time Stanley Kubrick put out "Dr. Strangelove" which was a comedy (dark, dark comedy) involving the same background: cold war breaking out into full blown nuclear. It was not too long after the 1962 Cuban missile crisis.
How many people here remember desk diving and Burt the turtle?
I highly recommend renting "Fail Safe" to see the point I've been trying to make here: a good guy getting tricked into being a bad guy, all over a communications glitch.
That's why I constantly look for good communication coming from them (and other splinter groups too) to see if there is any chance of THEM sending out a trial balloon of love.
If it's any consolation, I think the crisis mode is largely over at TWI, compared to what it was several years ago. It was a great collective panic that was going on from the time the BOT realized Geer had tricked them into thinking he had some answers from God. I had friends working on staff at the time of the POP and after. They said that everyone was looking for the adversaries moles, counterfeits, plants in everyone else, and thinking it was their DUTY to thin that way. Each individual was in a state of terror that someone else would falsely finger THEM as spies for the adversary.
It sounded a lot like the McCarthy hearings on communism of the 50's, the nuclear tensions of the 50's and 60's, and even the French reign or terror during their revolution in the 1700's.
When people are in a panic, then they do things horribly inefficient, and even terribly cruel things, thinking that it's called for and proper. Every year some nightclub fire somewhere around the world will display this way humans act in panic mode.
I think most of TWI's panic mode is over, and there is a chance of some of them realizing EVERYONE got tricked off of PFAL, just in different ways. As they begin to communicate more, this can become more apparent to them.
One of the best ways that they can "wake up" is by getting serious about meekly mastering the PFAL collaterals instead of reviewing or dabbling in them. All it takes is one person seeing things in those books, like a Martin Luther, and things can change.
"I think I see it Galen- the spell checking police. A lot like the "radio cops". They can play hard ball too."
'Radio Cops'?? I googled that one, learned a bit too. I still dont see what the FCC would have to do with topic.
Were you thinking that the new TWI website [for florida] has spelling errors on it?
I have no idea if they do, I really had not looked.
Did you know that even Greasespot Cafe has a front page website? I have not been to it since soon after Paw set it up. When I visit I come directly to the forums.
Kind of interesting.. you know, they have been in a constant "crisis" for decades. When I first got in, the big crises was big brother coming and taking over all our lives. Better have some guns, supplies squirreled away. Whew! Thank the MOG that it didn't happen. HIS believing did it all..
On and on. Through the POOP years. Through the crisis of being taken over by "homos". Through the crisis of being taken over by "nice people".
Through the financial crisis. Through the "Y2K" crisis. Da world's gonna end ya know. Whew! We made it through that one. Obvious it didn't happen because "da household" was prepared- Now through "da internet" crisis.
One "crisis" after another. And to what effect?
"God's people" aren't given a moment of rest. Not a moment to regain their composure or balance. Be assured, there was more than one "emergency" meeting over this last deal. For them, it's a "crisis" if we are in the unfortunate circumstance of having to coach their kids on the local softball team.
It's a "crisis" if they HAVE to make an unscheduled trip to the store on their own.
And it's been like this- for DECADES. What a perfect recipe for control. Apparently, it works. Why stop now?
Just when you think its safe- another "crisis".
"WE have the inside skinny- debbils from lower Slobovia are planning a coordinated attack on da household.."
"Whew. Thank da WOG that we got through THAT one".
No Galen, no aspersions to the FCC. The discussion just kind of reminded me of one of the Radio WKRP in Cincinatti episodes- one of the few I saw. The D.J. that was really paranoid was on the lookout for "the radio cops". The transmitter site blew up- he said something like, "those radio cops, they can really play hard-ball".
Bob, that's funny.. now my car, I have this little thing with about five or six antennas on it. One is about six feet long.. when I first installed them, I would drive down one local road here that is notorious for fast, unsafe drivers. I could see them coming up behind me, going about 75 or 80 in a 50 MPH zone. When they got about twenty car lengths behind me, they would slow down, and stay about twenty car lengths back. I had more fun than I had for a long time.. been thinking of painting it a flat black- that would scare them!
I believe the 70's crisis was real. The low point in political morale due to the Viet Nam war, then Watergate, then Carter's wimpout to Iran all made for very tense and fragile times.
The y2k "crisis" was a total joke to everyone who knew anything about electronics and microprocessor chips. EVERY SINGLE computerized system in the infrastructure that was suspect to be failure prone when the clocks changed had attached to them what is called a "manual override" for instalation and repair scenarios.
That term "manual override" NEVER ONCE appeared in the mass media as far as I am aware of. I suspect that those who knew didn't tell the media because they had lucrative contracts to "protect" the systems. The media too had a vested interest in keeping the fear whipped up.
As y2k approached no one in TWI could operate the revelation manifestations accurately and consistently, and were totally dependant on the mass media for their information, not counting the devil spirit revelations that WERE very much available to them. The scare was fake, but did play into their hands as a control vehicle.
Just because y2k and any other crisis that came up after 1985 were pretty fake, that doesn't mean the 70's one was fake too.
The crisis mode I referred to that was largely over at TWI was the Geer attack on the BOT. From the point of view within TWI, that attack via the POP and then it's 2 year followup, was a genuine crisis. Craig's reaction to that Geer induced crisis was an additional genuine crisis in itself. Both are over.
Seems to me that the BOD and minions are VERY skilled at "crisis intervention". Unfortunately (for them) they don't find very many real crisises to perform their "magic". Can't find one? Manufacture one.
Somehow they have to be able to justify their lavish lifestyle.. I have no more respect for them than local hoodlums running from door to door selling "protection". "Walk away and yer dead", "their kid died because they left US", are all wonderful and fine.. but the real trick is to manufacture a "miraculous" rescue of one form or another. And MOST are naive or gullible enough to believe it. Personally, I think the 1976 takeover conspiracy story was conceived out of the highest form of .... people could find.
I know computers, and at least a little about electronics. Most people with less knowledge than I did not seem to be very afraid. But here! Here we have a crisis! After all, this one was indeed in the news.. and who claims credit of "divine deliverence"? "Things COULDA been a lot worse, if we did not have OUR people prepared". And they bought it. "I'm soooooo thankful to have such a wonnnderful WOG and WOGGESS who protects me from "da wasting"" or some such nonsense.
Crisis after crisis. "We are soooooo thanful for our Woggy to stand in the gap and chase off da homos". Well, that sure didn't fix anything, did it?
And this makes their job so much easier. Imagine. They don't have to really PRODUCE anything. No demonstration of power, no miracles, nothing. Zip. Nada. Zero. They are instant heroes because of what did NOT happen.
This explains why those who have a few serious problems kind of disappear in the night. They are bad advertising. What happened to all the promises of deliverence? "Well, we knows da people, and they be messed up. That's why".
"They died because of their believing".
To quote a line from one of my favorite stories: "what do you DO for the people, besides from saving them from gluttony?" That's all they can do. Beat them down mentally, physically, spiritually, financially. Still going strong..
God, I hate religion. And this may be one piddly insignificant cult, but it is one piddling insignificant cult that I happened to be involved in. Don't get me wrong.. I think the Bible and God are wonderful. Just what people do with it.. and they won't stop the nonsense, won't give up. Kind of like trying to convince a seventeen year old crack dealer to quit selling. He's not gonna- the money is WAY too easy.
Jesus called them snakes. Hypocrites. Blind leaders of the blind. Thieves. Robbers. No wonder they put the gospels in the old testament "for our learning".
Well, we don't wanna read that, dats negative..
we wanna read about being "blessed" all the time..
They should have a new greeting on the "wonderful for da believers" website- "enter at your own risk".
Frigging bastards. I don't see how people believe it- "leave or disobey, and you'll die or worse"..
Well, I believed it, once. Must be something about human nature- trusting people like "that". And they're STILL pulling the same kind of strings. Same stuff. No wonder they don't want anybody with a different "story" to contaminate their precious website. No debate allowed, of ANY kind. Now it is not only not "allowed", it is IMPOSSIBLE.
This should be no surprise. None of the clergy or higher level leadership were ever skilled at dealing with dissent of differing opinions. This malady is not confined to TWI either. Many posters here have longed for my being banned. May splinter group leaders, even the "nice" ones, are totally unable to be told that they are fundamentally wrong about anything.
Most leadership were out of the street witnessing mode long ago, and were always surrounded by flocks who kept quiet about any disagreement. Friendly debate is a difficult skill, and most of the leadership, whether still in TWI or heading a splinter group, run away from any kid of debate. They can't afford to publicly debate and lose an argument before an audience consisting of their flock. They see no profit in debating in private with someone who shows no signs of cracking and giving in to the leader's point of view. Thus they never built the skills. Even ordinary two-way conversation is difficult for many. It's fear.
So, John B's experiment showed him that it was more difficult than anticipated to have even a cyber two-way communication situation.
Even the great JAL, who had top skills honed when speaking from a podium, has run and hid from scrutiny here.
These leadership people will have to be reached by individuals who know the Word and can show them what they missed in PFAL.
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Mike
From how little I know John B, I don't think is so much a matter of him being p wipped by leadership as much as he IS leadership of sorts.
The vacuum left behind by Craig, and the lack of charisma at HQ, has de-centralized a lot of the leadership, and lots of locals are somewhat taking up the torch of running on their own.
So each local area has leaders acting on their old (but somewhat revised after Craig's departure) playbooks, with a weakened role of HQ.
The Geer group has gone through much the same thing.
*****
That said:
I think SOME of the impenetrability of TWI (local or central HQ) is akin to the circled wagons metaphor.
But I think an EVEN BETTER metaphor is the movie "Fail Safe."
The pilot in that movie was doing everything right according to the playbook.
I've mention this before here. It's like they're doing thing by "the book" but can't see that the book is outdated or misapplied. Their intentions are often good, but the have gotten tricked into a deep rut of misapplying them.
This happens all the time with people. I've seen it happen to me. It's a social dynamic the adversary often cashes in on all the time, with varying degrees of power and destruction involved.
I've heard that the Spanish Inquisition by the RCs hundreds of years ago was similar. The leaders were tricked into thinking that torture of heretics was the loving thing to do, to give them enough of a taste of hell before they died that they JUST MIGHT REPENT from the sin that would surely bring them to the real hell should they not repent. The leaders really started out with good intentions but got tricked into horrible misapplication of the power they had.
***
Here is how I've brought up the "Fail Safe" movie three times previous here. I'm too tired to include the dates and people I was responding to in all of these, but if anyone really wants to know I can re-find them all. I was too tired to remember when I was doing this paste up just now.
*********************************************************
(1)
My position with The Way International is zilch. I try to call them by phone about once every two years just to see where they are at. They are pretty standoffish, but in recent years I sense a bit more willingness to talk. They've been pretty humbled by Craig's situation, but still don't receive well the fact that they too let Dr's last teaching slip right by unobeyed. I only know one person (non-leadership) who will allow me any kind of regular conversation.
I witness to the WAYGB here all the time. When I think of lurkers reading my posts I include them. Very much did slip by all of us, and there have been many different kinds of reactions. I sometimes see a similarity between the U.S. pilot in the movie "Fail Safe" and a lot of top leadership both in TWI-2 and all the splinter groups. They were trained to keep on their mission no matter what, but something went wrong in the communications, and they think they are doing the right thing, no matter how much people get hurt in the process. I see the same thing in many of the more prolific posters here. Blind dedication.
There was once something that did well bind us ALL together in great love and cooperation, and after ten fruitless and 5 fruitful years of searching out what it was, I post what I post. Someday the first wave of OLGs will come back to PFAL and see the magnificent treasure God placed in there for us. When that happens I believe EVEN the hard hearts in TWI and GSC will melt with love and appreciation.
In the meantime, God's mercy is great.
*********************************************************
(2)
posted May 19, 2004 12:58
My3Cents,
Thank you, and I wish the same for you.
You wrote: "I don't think Craig's failures were at all typical. They were/are pretty extraordinary."
Yes they were not typical or even comparable with ours, but they were still typical for those rare individuals who have THAT much power in their hands. I think if any of us had been given that much power we would have screwed it up even worse than Craig. Like I said, we had differing symptoms from Craig's, but we all had the same end result of not being able to effectively and consistently operate the revelation manifestations, which leads to an inability to operate the impartation manifestations. In this we are in the same boat as Craig.
***
You wrote: "But it's common for people with a fundamentalist view of things to see the world as black or white with no variance."
Yes again. I was pretty shocked when I re-read the "Fellowship Is the Secret" chapter in TNDC. In there it's very plain that fellowship is NOT a black and white thing, but has many shades of gray in between. The richness or fullness of our fellowship with the Father and His Son are laid out often in that chapter. It was the TVT (Twi's Verbal Tradition) that very starkly portrayed fellowship as either "in" or "out."
***
You wrote: "If you believe that people and actions are either "on the word" or "off the word" then there is no room for a whole range of motivations from mistaken, to misguided, to deliberatly evil, to narsacistic."
Yes again. I've several times posted here that I see a mental model of Craig and people like Craig being like the pilot in the 60's movie "Fail Safe" in their misapplication of training. Unlike that movie, though, I think Craig can recover from this, even Craig. There IS a way.
*********************************************************
(3)
You wrote: "As for Rosalie, who cares what she does. The ministry was a money-making scam for the BOT and the sooner it dies, the better off we all will be."
I care very much about my family. Rosalie and all those people there have been through a lot.
I like to think no evil. I like to think that Rosalie and Co. painted themselves into a corner and are having a hard time recovering. I like to think that they are trying to help people, and are just misguided, just like a lot of grads who post here.
You may say that they were mean and nasty, but that happens every day on this board. The horrors we all experienced at TWI were very human, and in no way unique to TWI. All the Corpse Nazi traits I hated in TWI can be seen in poster activity here.
I care about people here who are nasty, and I care about Rosalie and TWI people. I think most of the nastiness here and there is due to people having a tough time dealing with all the crap. People get tricked into thinking the nastiness is necessary. Just ask some of those who are nasty to me, and they will tell you they have noble intentions. I often think of the movie "Fail Safe" and see runnaway pilots who think they are acting on their training, but are actually hurting people.
When you start caring about your enemies, then you are starting to put on the love of Christ. Anyone can love those who are nice to them, but when we start trying to love our enemies, THEN we are starting to grow.
Jesus Christ cares about Rosalie, and so do I.
*********************************************************
*********************************************************
*********************************************************
In summary of this metaphor: in the movie the inability of the President and S.A.C. Commanders to get through to the pilot (if my memory is accurate) to stop him from dropping the bomb was due to some kind of radio code glitch? They just couldn't get the right code communicated to the pilot, so the pilot continued on with doing the job as he had been trained.
The only way to get through to TWI (as well as to ALL grads hell bent on destruction) is to get the code right: love.
The only way to get the love right is to get it straight from the True source of love, God.
The only way to get to God is to know His will, his Word... accurately.
It's God's ACCURATE Word that defines love.
You all know the rest.
.
.
.
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justloafing
Thanks for telling me the end of the movie.
:(-->
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justloafing
Software glitch I guess.
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Ham
Yep.. typical. Come to think of it, "da webmaster" is not even an employee of da vey inc. What a pathetic existence.
Still don't think he got "the beating' of his life? And probably from some young snot nosed friggin Hitler type but-somehow-debt-free son of a bitch. I have seen stuff like this before my very eyes- in the early nineties, these were the kind of leaders sent out to "tenderly lead" the flock. And they showed some real zeal in carrying out their mission. They are here to stay. Last I checked, some of the worst are now responsible for whole REGIONS.
Even in "da good ole days" (EARLY seventies) I saw stuff that would curl your hair (or straighten it if it was curly to begin with..).
I witnessed first hand how a group of leaders put their wives "in their proper place" for attempting to inject a little logic in a planning session. Not a public meeting. No MOG type being held up for ridicule or anything even remotely resembling that. A private, informal, gathering. What they did, you DO NOT want to know. The only thing I will say is that the women could have pressed criminal charges if they chose to do so.
Somehow things are supposed to be so much better now. I wonder what it is like to be a "wife of the way" now.
Somehow, this fifty-some year old guy just sits back and takes it- deluding himself that somehow this is all God's will. I am not saying he's evil- I would give him the benefit of doubt- probably the nicest guy you could know. Sadly, the nicest people in that outfit are targeted with the worst treatment.
The nicest believers in our area were the first target of inquisition and expulsion. I am only "partly nice" and somewhat logical- took them a little longer to get around to me. Only partly mean at times. I guess I'm not quite "the right material".
They've just got him convinced (or more "accurately" more conditioned than Pavlov's dog) that the cold stove is hot. Touch it and you're "possessed". "How many devils do you see? "You must be kidding. I can't see any devils there.." Zapppp- "wrong, bucko.."
I was there too at one time.. saw devils under every rock, in every civic organization, behind every tree. Behind almost any motive. Add to this that I was not in the inner circle.. this guy is CORPS. The most dedicated, committed they've got. So who really "runs" that website? No question in my mind.
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Ham
I actually still care. For those in, especially for those thinking about joining..
But it's like trying to love a mad dog. No matter what you do you'll get bit. One way or another.. guaranteed.
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vickles
That wasn't D@v* & Lol@ P@tt#rs#n was it?
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Ham
Nope. One of the guys was originally from Pa. A real idiot. The head honcho was like, 3rd or 4th corps- don't think he was 2nd. The event was long long ago in a state far far away.. but I remember it like it was yesterday.
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Mike
justloafing,
I see your post count is up to snuff now.
You can still see the movie "Fail Safe." I did NOT give away the ending by a long shot! What I spelled out is the early setup of the plot. The ending gets VERY hairy.
Henry Fonda played the President, but it was so many years ago (over 35) that I can't remember anyone else in it.
I think it came out right around the same time Stanley Kubrick put out "Dr. Strangelove" which was a comedy (dark, dark comedy) involving the same background: cold war breaking out into full blown nuclear. It was not too long after the 1962 Cuban missile crisis.
How many people here remember desk diving and Burt the turtle?
I highly recommend renting "Fail Safe" to see the point I've been trying to make here: a good guy getting tricked into being a bad guy, all over a communications glitch.
That's why I constantly look for good communication coming from them (and other splinter groups too) to see if there is any chance of THEM sending out a trial balloon of love.
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Mike
Mr Hammeroni,
If it's any consolation, I think the crisis mode is largely over at TWI, compared to what it was several years ago. It was a great collective panic that was going on from the time the BOT realized Geer had tricked them into thinking he had some answers from God. I had friends working on staff at the time of the POP and after. They said that everyone was looking for the adversaries moles, counterfeits, plants in everyone else, and thinking it was their DUTY to thin that way. Each individual was in a state of terror that someone else would falsely finger THEM as spies for the adversary.
It sounded a lot like the McCarthy hearings on communism of the 50's, the nuclear tensions of the 50's and 60's, and even the French reign or terror during their revolution in the 1700's.
When people are in a panic, then they do things horribly inefficient, and even terribly cruel things, thinking that it's called for and proper. Every year some nightclub fire somewhere around the world will display this way humans act in panic mode.
I think most of TWI's panic mode is over, and there is a chance of some of them realizing EVERYONE got tricked off of PFAL, just in different ways. As they begin to communicate more, this can become more apparent to them.
One of the best ways that they can "wake up" is by getting serious about meekly mastering the PFAL collaterals instead of reviewing or dabbling in them. All it takes is one person seeing things in those books, like a Martin Luther, and things can change.
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Galen
Oakspear:
"Who are you talking about, Galen? The spell-checking police?"
???????
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Ham
I think I see it Galen- the spell checking police. A lot like the "radio cops". They can play hard ball too.
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Bob
I actually passed by an Environmental Police car on the highway last night. Couldn't believe it.
It was an SUV, complete with the police lights on top, and "Environmental Police" plastered on the back. Only in this state...
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Galen
Hamm-
"I think I see it Galen- the spell checking police. A lot like the "radio cops". They can play hard ball too."
'Radio Cops'?? I googled that one, learned a bit too. I still dont see what the FCC would have to do with topic.
Were you thinking that the new TWI website [for florida] has spelling errors on it?
I have no idea if they do, I really had not looked.
Did you know that even Greasespot Cafe has a front page website? I have not been to it since soon after Paw set it up. When I visit I come directly to the forums.
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Ham
Kind of interesting.. you know, they have been in a constant "crisis" for decades. When I first got in, the big crises was big brother coming and taking over all our lives. Better have some guns, supplies squirreled away. Whew! Thank the MOG that it didn't happen. HIS believing did it all..
On and on. Through the POOP years. Through the crisis of being taken over by "homos". Through the crisis of being taken over by "nice people".
Through the financial crisis. Through the "Y2K" crisis. Da world's gonna end ya know. Whew! We made it through that one. Obvious it didn't happen because "da household" was prepared- Now through "da internet" crisis.
One "crisis" after another. And to what effect?
"God's people" aren't given a moment of rest. Not a moment to regain their composure or balance. Be assured, there was more than one "emergency" meeting over this last deal. For them, it's a "crisis" if we are in the unfortunate circumstance of having to coach their kids on the local softball team.
It's a "crisis" if they HAVE to make an unscheduled trip to the store on their own.
And it's been like this- for DECADES. What a perfect recipe for control. Apparently, it works. Why stop now?
Just when you think its safe- another "crisis".
"WE have the inside skinny- debbils from lower Slobovia are planning a coordinated attack on da household.."
"Whew. Thank da WOG that we got through THAT one".
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Ham
"Our witchdoctor (sorry, WOG) must have some heapin' powerful spirits"
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Ham
No Galen, no aspersions to the FCC. The discussion just kind of reminded me of one of the Radio WKRP in Cincinatti episodes- one of the few I saw. The D.J. that was really paranoid was on the lookout for "the radio cops". The transmitter site blew up- he said something like, "those radio cops, they can really play hard-ball".
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Ham
Bob, that's funny.. now my car, I have this little thing with about five or six antennas on it. One is about six feet long.. when I first installed them, I would drive down one local road here that is notorious for fast, unsafe drivers. I could see them coming up behind me, going about 75 or 80 in a 50 MPH zone. When they got about twenty car lengths behind me, they would slow down, and stay about twenty car lengths back. I had more fun than I had for a long time.. been thinking of painting it a flat black- that would scare them!
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Mike
Mr Ham,
I believe the 70's crisis was real. The low point in political morale due to the Viet Nam war, then Watergate, then Carter's wimpout to Iran all made for very tense and fragile times.
The y2k "crisis" was a total joke to everyone who knew anything about electronics and microprocessor chips. EVERY SINGLE computerized system in the infrastructure that was suspect to be failure prone when the clocks changed had attached to them what is called a "manual override" for instalation and repair scenarios.
That term "manual override" NEVER ONCE appeared in the mass media as far as I am aware of. I suspect that those who knew didn't tell the media because they had lucrative contracts to "protect" the systems. The media too had a vested interest in keeping the fear whipped up.
As y2k approached no one in TWI could operate the revelation manifestations accurately and consistently, and were totally dependant on the mass media for their information, not counting the devil spirit revelations that WERE very much available to them. The scare was fake, but did play into their hands as a control vehicle.
Just because y2k and any other crisis that came up after 1985 were pretty fake, that doesn't mean the 70's one was fake too.
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Mike
Mr Ham,
The crisis mode I referred to that was largely over at TWI was the Geer attack on the BOT. From the point of view within TWI, that attack via the POP and then it's 2 year followup, was a genuine crisis. Craig's reaction to that Geer induced crisis was an additional genuine crisis in itself. Both are over.
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Ham
Seems to me that the BOD and minions are VERY skilled at "crisis intervention". Unfortunately (for them) they don't find very many real crisises to perform their "magic". Can't find one? Manufacture one.
Somehow they have to be able to justify their lavish lifestyle.. I have no more respect for them than local hoodlums running from door to door selling "protection". "Walk away and yer dead", "their kid died because they left US", are all wonderful and fine.. but the real trick is to manufacture a "miraculous" rescue of one form or another. And MOST are naive or gullible enough to believe it. Personally, I think the 1976 takeover conspiracy story was conceived out of the highest form of .... people could find.
I know computers, and at least a little about electronics. Most people with less knowledge than I did not seem to be very afraid. But here! Here we have a crisis! After all, this one was indeed in the news.. and who claims credit of "divine deliverence"? "Things COULDA been a lot worse, if we did not have OUR people prepared". And they bought it. "I'm soooooo thankful to have such a wonnnderful WOG and WOGGESS who protects me from "da wasting"" or some such nonsense.
Crisis after crisis. "We are soooooo thanful for our Woggy to stand in the gap and chase off da homos". Well, that sure didn't fix anything, did it?
And this makes their job so much easier. Imagine. They don't have to really PRODUCE anything. No demonstration of power, no miracles, nothing. Zip. Nada. Zero. They are instant heroes because of what did NOT happen.
This explains why those who have a few serious problems kind of disappear in the night. They are bad advertising. What happened to all the promises of deliverence? "Well, we knows da people, and they be messed up. That's why".
"They died because of their believing".
To quote a line from one of my favorite stories: "what do you DO for the people, besides from saving them from gluttony?" That's all they can do. Beat them down mentally, physically, spiritually, financially. Still going strong..
God, I hate religion. And this may be one piddly insignificant cult, but it is one piddling insignificant cult that I happened to be involved in. Don't get me wrong.. I think the Bible and God are wonderful. Just what people do with it.. and they won't stop the nonsense, won't give up. Kind of like trying to convince a seventeen year old crack dealer to quit selling. He's not gonna- the money is WAY too easy.
Jesus called them snakes. Hypocrites. Blind leaders of the blind. Thieves. Robbers. No wonder they put the gospels in the old testament "for our learning".
Well, we don't wanna read that, dats negative..
we wanna read about being "blessed" all the time..
They should have a new greeting on the "wonderful for da believers" website- "enter at your own risk".
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Ham
Frigging bastards. I don't see how people believe it- "leave or disobey, and you'll die or worse"..
Well, I believed it, once. Must be something about human nature- trusting people like "that". And they're STILL pulling the same kind of strings. Same stuff. No wonder they don't want anybody with a different "story" to contaminate their precious website. No debate allowed, of ANY kind. Now it is not only not "allowed", it is IMPOSSIBLE.
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Oakspear
All of our names that were temporaily on the member list have been removed. (Sorry Roy, they didn't buy your explanation), other than Galen's.
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Mike
This should be no surprise. None of the clergy or higher level leadership were ever skilled at dealing with dissent of differing opinions. This malady is not confined to TWI either. Many posters here have longed for my being banned. May splinter group leaders, even the "nice" ones, are totally unable to be told that they are fundamentally wrong about anything.
Most leadership were out of the street witnessing mode long ago, and were always surrounded by flocks who kept quiet about any disagreement. Friendly debate is a difficult skill, and most of the leadership, whether still in TWI or heading a splinter group, run away from any kid of debate. They can't afford to publicly debate and lose an argument before an audience consisting of their flock. They see no profit in debating in private with someone who shows no signs of cracking and giving in to the leader's point of view. Thus they never built the skills. Even ordinary two-way conversation is difficult for many. It's fear.
So, John B's experiment showed him that it was more difficult than anticipated to have even a cyber two-way communication situation.
Even the great JAL, who had top skills honed when speaking from a podium, has run and hid from scrutiny here.
These leadership people will have to be reached by individuals who know the Word and can show them what they missed in PFAL.
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year2027
God first and last
Beloved Oakspear and others
God bless you all
If not that they do not buy it but they do not want the truth
They only want the root of evil and they not getting my money
But what I do not get is why they do not charge to post on their board
Or is that coming Because there are some boards that charge you per month
with love and an holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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