Actually the VPster initiated the direction for staffers to be Corpsers, not LCM. He wanted - 'preferred' - that everyone who had any kind of responsibility within the Way to have gone through his Corps training. (he was saying that as early as '74 - 'someday i want, etc.')
I'd say there was indeed a '2 world' sort of arrangement at the Way Nash through the 70's but one that was a happy melting pot initially.
At the start the staff were THE upper echelon, they who worked at the Center of Where It's Hot, The Farm. That's all there was. And pretty good folks all the way around I'd say, some very interesting and talented people. Everyone at that time came out of the same 'pool' of people around the country. Staffers had cool jobs, were doing what they wanted to do by working at the Way and did a lot of good for a lot of people. The Way Corps never seemed like a separate entity to me when I went in because I knew most of the staff peeps and they were part of the 'success' story example that I saw that made the Way Corps appear like a good thing. But the WC program and it's committments and the staff positions and their committments were very different. The lines of demarcation were natural, but were highlighted as the Way population grew.
I know some staffers from that period who felt hurt when VP juggled his preferences between Staff and Corps. It was bound to be confusing, 'Daddy' dividing his time.
My 2 Cents of Hineysight and Scintillating Observations. Free. :D-->
My Pleasure Belle! But now...if you've been helped, and you know you have, send your free will debt dona - I mean love donations to the "Sockster of Love" c/o The Drawers of Divinity & Glawry, Box 228, Bendouver, CA. I can accept PayPal, Visa, Mastercard, WireGram and even good old cash although we prefer to hear swishing not clinking in the can when we open the mail if you know what I mean and I think you do.
socks, thanks for adding your insight. So, by 1974 vicster wanted staffers in his corps?
I guess this makes sense, since the zero corps bottomed out and the corps-promotion machine gained momentum. It would seem kinda whimpy to have the "corps elite program" with numbers that were laughable and bringing embarrassment to the mog.
Yeah.....a happy melting pot initially -- until the pressure to go corps mounted! Just can't let the staff stay in their areas of expertise and NOT GROW SPIRITUALLY ??
Besides, the confusion of which "category" do you fit in was escalating. I knew a 7th corps guy who firmly believed that his calling was to be "a business man" and be the first to donate ONE MILLION DOLLARS to twi.
I guess...I'd describe it as VPW's Plan A, sort of a base level of training and committment that he always wanted from day one, whenever that was. The Corps program could have very well tanked over and over and to hear him talk at the time it was a constant up and down of achievement and failure. But I know many people on staff that he personally encouraged to "go Corps" and remember him clearly saying his long range vision was everyone, staff, twig coordinators, etc. to be Corps graduates. So to some that meant go in early and get "assigned" somewhere to something forever. To others it meant step out of your gig whatever it was and complete the Corps program and then continue on.
Plus, the mass body of Corps grads were a pretty flexible group of people that remained largely open to any assignment that rolled out the pike. But I'd also say he fully expected people to develop pursuits of their own that could very well direct their future "careers". It's at that point, say late 70's, that I'd say the whole synergy of programs, classes and direction VPW had built started slowly imploding on itself. Masses of people running around doing...what? Sooner or later everyone was going to get older, marry, have families, and develop interests. But sequestered in Way World Brain Freeze it was as if a whole couple generations turned in to Peter Pans, thinking everyone would keep on doing what they'd done, forever. There was a HUGE need for a real retooling of the ministry vision and plan to build for a future, but it never really took hold enough to allow for the dialogue to begin.
I do know that VPW began to address that very specifically in 1984 the year before he died at the Corps Week but he was pretty much shut down by Craig and the Trunk office for lack of time or interest. But some of us were very interested. Like me, I'd had one foot out the door for a few years already, it was just a matter of time before I'd have taken a different direction with our family.
I've always felt that, had their been no "POP", there would have been a poop of some kind eventually. The closed-corporation culture of the Way was just too limiiting to work long term. Look at them now, not exactly taking the world by storm, perfectly happy to doink along.
But, then...there was one staff couple, been there for years, kept going to meetings where VPW would go on and on about how he wanted the Corps to be the real training ground, how everyone should at least consider it, etc. etc. So they applied, told everyone, did all the preparations and got accepted and went to Emporia. So the first week or so of the program the husband bumped in to VPW at a Corps meeting. He told me later he said "What are you doing here?!" When he said uh, they were in the corps program now he acted surprised. So go figure.
I think what you're thinking of is the after POP staff.
After the first great exodus of the late 80's, there weren't many staffers at HQ's who were Way Corps. So they lowered their standards! They would take anyone who was an A/C grad for a while.
The folks who left our area to have the "privilege" of living on the farm had to make at least a 2 year commitment. I guess if they worked out, they'd be asked to stay longer.
But for quite a few years there was not 100% Corps on staff - there weren't enough Corps to fill the positions left by the "cop-outs" --> !
I think TWI had more than two sides to it. Heck, Way Productions was in its own little world - and I don't think they fit into either of your original catagories.
Think about all the "worker bees" - those who weren't doing the business/organizational/professional side of TWI. Housekeeping, Way Builders, Grounds Crew to name a few. They all had to be Corps Grads, too when TWI got bigger. But after POP, I think they were lucky to get anyone they felt was worthy enough to clean the toilets in the BRC!
quote:I guess...I'd describe it as VPW's Plan A, sort of a base level of training and committment that he always wanted from day one, whenever that was. The Corps program could have very well tanked over and over and to hear him talk at the time it was a constant up and down of achievement and failure. But I know many people on staff that he personally encouraged to "go Corps" and remember him clearly saying his long range vision was everyone, staff, twig coordinators, etc. to be Corps graduates. So to some that meant go in early and get "assigned" somewhere to something forever. To others it meant step out of your gig whatever it was and complete the Corps program and then continue on.
Socks....yeah, "step out of your gig" and get some corps training [programming] and then, by manipulation, you're [my] corps. For a time, some received a recognized status by a one-year attendence into corps training.....others got special treatment and never went inresidence.
This "corps status" was such a high degree of spirituality that even Don and Howard were publically recognized for their decades of service to twi and given special corps designation! It just wasn't good enough with the corps nametag??
But my point in this thread......around 1978-1985 there was a distinct mentality within twi regarding service/support oriented people and those striving in spiritual leadership. And, the Word in Business Conferences only perpetuated this thinking and widened the chasm.
And socks.......good point about "if there had been no poop, there would have been a poop of some kind eventually." Just too many leaders and too disorganized to remain intact.
And hope.....I agree with you that twi had more than two sides to it. I see what you mean, but I wasn't approaching it from that angle. I guess being around Don W. and seeing the progression of WIB had an impact. Plus, several of my staff friends bluntly said that they had NO desire to go into the corps, because they were support people and that was that!
Plus, I vividly remember this Acts 6:1-7 being taught at a HQ Staff Meeting. Maybe, what was being highlighted was taken on another tangent?
Yeah, Sky, that's my take. The only thing that never changes is that everything always changes. Regardless how we evaluate VPW's life and efforts, I know he did have a broad 'vision' of what he was trying to do with the Way that included long term planning, families, business, the arts, entertainment, all that stuff. All it really boiled down to was - what would a group of people do that were all working from the same base of understanding of the 'accuracy of the Word. How would that be reflected in their efforts if they tried to apply it in some meaningful way.
There was a lot of that, as you'd expect. But, by orchestrating so many things so personally himself and running them out of his own center, the basic essence of authentic behavior and true natural expression was stunted. It's like saying "everyone be smart...right now! and do something really great! and be happy, too!" What you get is what you asked for, not what would have naturally flowed from the people themselves. All of the tunnel visioned Corps this and Staff that and blah blah blah was like planting a 100 pound weight on the ankle of a baby.
Revolutions are messy, dynamic, thrilling, and tumultuous. People make mistakes, fail, succeed. They lurch forward 5 steps and drop back two and then broad jump 25 in a single leap. They aren't orchestrated and dressed up in frills and foam core and delivered in retermorized oratory and repeated till everyone knows what to say and when to laugh and applaud at all the right times.
When I really look at the numbers of enthusiastic people that came through the Way over the years - the intelligence, talent, imagination....you have to wonder what might have happened had VPW simply said "I'll teach the bible. I like to do that. Then I'd like to help all of you see what you can really do....who's first?"
Myself, I'm not the least bit nostalgic for the past, but it was my life and I lived it. We all have the opportunity to learn from life and reflect upon it and evaluate the gains and learn from the losses. Y'know? :)-->
quote:After the first great exodus of the late 80's, there weren't many staffers at HQ's who were Way Corps. So they lowered their standards! They would take anyone who was an A/C grad for a while.
There was a big push in our area during the early 90s to get people on staff. They LCs were aware of HQ's "needs" and scouted for worker bees that were dumb, uh, spiritual enough to work on a "need basis."
It was presented almost like University of Life. "Not going in the corps but want to grow..." Nothing new under the sun there. ;)-->
Regardless how we evaluate VPW's life and efforts, I know he did have a broad 'vision' of what he was trying to do with the Way that included long term planning, families, business, the arts, entertainment, all that stuff.
Socks, I'd have to sort of disagree. From the perspective I had when I was in that seemed to be the case. Now that I know a bit more about how to manage an organization, and about different emotional and interpersonal strengths and weaknesses I'd have to say different.
What I'd say now is he talked as if he had this vision - but had no consistency about any of the management of it - or even the priorities involved. He'd blow hot and cold. One day something or someone would be the greatest and next day it would not. There was never any logical plan. This was pawned off as "being spiritual" but in reality it's a very common pattern among alcoholics.
The vision and the spirituality was a gloss put over the top that kept people like us from admiting what was really going on: A meglomaniac with poor judgement, impulsive outbursts and zero morals or character.
quote: The vision and the spirituality was a gloss put over the top that kept people like us from admiting what was really going on: A meglomaniac with poor judgement, impulsive outbursts and zero morals or character.
I'll split the difference with you, which was why I chose "vision" as a description. :D--> I think a lot of ideas floated, ideas that would have been useful had they ever gotten off the ground. Not too many did, other than the locations for further Way Corps training programs. I agree, if there had ever been a genunine interest in doing them they would have been given some time money and effort. Gunnison and Tinney would be examples I think of failed locations that really served no serious purpose if you were interested in expanding the scope of activities of a church like the Way. They just pandered to the idea of having more locations to do what was already being done, and not that well, at locations like Emporia and Rome City that already were underway.
Way Productions is another. It's completely gone the road of being "household" entertainment. True expression in any range of the arts is zero. Corporate Way bottomed out on any coherent "Word in Culture" development. And not to slight anyone still with them that might have some talent, they had a huge human brain drain amongst all the people who left, those who had any real efforts going on in those areas.
The "Sunset Corps" program was another. It would have had to be started early, years before any use of it. No planning, no investment. Just an idea that wafted away. Now there's a huge portion of the Way members that are reaching retirement age, lots who have had the guts of their lives ravaged by the no-debt, no mortgage policies and misguided plans like full-time Way Corps 'staff' nationwide' that LCM initiated. There's so little to show for all the years, time, money and lives that have gone through their ministry. It's such a waste. But, like the guy who asked for directions and was told "you can't get their from here", the Way will never recover what was lost. Easy for them to say "we're looking to the future and not the past!" but with that kind of record, who in there right mind would treat them seriously? They cycle every few years, change direction, boot out or chase out anyone that doesn't march to their pipe and drum. They effectively stop any input of new ideas if it threatens their safe little niche in New Knoxville, god forbid anything should actually change that might be an improvement!
It is always easy to be an idea man, much harder to fill in the details and actually carry out the plan. It is easy to walk into a room and tell those in charge what is wrong with their program, much harder to work day after day with others who may not have the same
vision, talent, or work ethic.
Heck, I do that all the time in gymnastics -- walk in and tell the coach what their kid is doing wrong. That's the easy part, having a good eye. The hard part is working with the young athlete day in and day out, on good days, injured days, distracted days. I have a lot of respect for the athletes that take what I tell them and actually work on it.
VP loved to have those "big vision" moments. I don't think he was all that good at following through. Funny that he turned the guilt for that onto us -- the "consider a suggestion as a command" doctrine. WE were supposed to fill in all the details. Then VP could come back and tell us where we were "off." The easy part.
Alcoholic? Yeah. And narcissistic. They both tend to be lazy, and hate to take responsibility.
I always heard how "Doctor" worked so hard. But I didn't see it.
quote: Easy for them to say "we're looking to the future and not the past!" but with that kind of record, who in there right mind would treat them seriously? They cycle every few years, change direction, boot out or chase out anyone that doesn't march to their pipe and drum. They effectively stop any input of new ideas if it threatens their safe little niche in New Knoxville, god forbid anything should actually change that might be an improvement!
Yeppers, Socks. And even that's a lie. They don't look at the future, they just look at the present and how much money and control they can have right now. The only future they look at is "the hope". They totally skip past any logical forethought or planning for the immediate future or retirement years for their people.
I remember one wc person, when asked about paying cash for a home, saying, "We may not be able to pay cash for a home, but we can save so that our kids can. Isn't that a great thing to be able to do?" It's as if they know they're giving people unrealistic expectations but refuse to change. And how many people can afford to save for their children't home if they don't even have enough retirement and college money put away because of the ridiculous counsel of TWIts?
quote:What I'd say now is he talked as if he had this vision - but had no consistency about any of the management of it - or even the priorities involved. He'd blow hot and cold. One day something or someone would be the greatest and next day it would not. There was never any logical plan. This was pawned off as "being spiritual" but in reality it's a very common pattern among alcoholics.
My3Cents.....yeah, vpw pawned off all kinds of "hot ideas" that were presented with a spiritual backdrop.
At one time, Camp Gunnison was going to be a "spiritual vacation spot" where people in their sunset years could enjoy "their" retirement home on Way property. A nice restaurant was going to be built up on the hill by the water tower. More buildings across the river. All sorts of grandeur ideas.
The sno-way.....an all-terrain vehicle was being built by Al Grumelxt and another guy. It was going to revolutionize all-terrain transportation.
At one time.....some Indy race car driver was wanting vpw (twi) to sponsor him. Vpw highly considered this as a great promotional avenue for twi. In the end, I think that some finally talked vp out of it.
High Country Caravan entertainment and performing at the Grand Ole Opry......vpw's vision was to keep this stuff going. Why should "his" people expect any less.
Rock of Ages on a region level......why not?
Ideas, ideas, ideas.....and yet, vpw was "limited" until his people rose up in their believing. Guilt motivation? Absolutely.
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socks
Actually the VPster initiated the direction for staffers to be Corpsers, not LCM. He wanted - 'preferred' - that everyone who had any kind of responsibility within the Way to have gone through his Corps training. (he was saying that as early as '74 - 'someday i want, etc.')
I'd say there was indeed a '2 world' sort of arrangement at the Way Nash through the 70's but one that was a happy melting pot initially.
At the start the staff were THE upper echelon, they who worked at the Center of Where It's Hot, The Farm. That's all there was. And pretty good folks all the way around I'd say, some very interesting and talented people. Everyone at that time came out of the same 'pool' of people around the country. Staffers had cool jobs, were doing what they wanted to do by working at the Way and did a lot of good for a lot of people. The Way Corps never seemed like a separate entity to me when I went in because I knew most of the staff peeps and they were part of the 'success' story example that I saw that made the Way Corps appear like a good thing. But the WC program and it's committments and the staff positions and their committments were very different. The lines of demarcation were natural, but were highlighted as the Way population grew.
I know some staffers from that period who felt hurt when VP juggled his preferences between Staff and Corps. It was bound to be confusing, 'Daddy' dividing his time.
My 2 Cents of Hineysight and Scintillating Observations. Free.
:D-->
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Belle
Thanks for all the insight, y'all!
Thanks, Socks, for the affordable prices.
:D-->
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socks
My Pleasure Belle! But now...if you've been helped, and you know you have, send your free will debt dona - I mean love donations to the "Sockster of Love" c/o The Drawers of Divinity & Glawry, Box 228, Bendouver, CA. I can accept PayPal, Visa, Mastercard, WireGram and even good old cash although we prefer to hear swishing not clinking in the can when we open the mail if you know what I mean and I think you do.
But no obligation, of course.
:D--> 
:D--> 
:D-->
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skyrider
socks, thanks for adding your insight. So, by 1974 vicster wanted staffers in his corps?
I guess this makes sense, since the zero corps bottomed out and the corps-promotion machine gained momentum. It would seem kinda whimpy to have the "corps elite program" with numbers that were laughable and bringing embarrassment to the mog.
Yeah.....a happy melting pot initially -- until the pressure to go corps mounted! Just can't let the staff stay in their areas of expertise and NOT GROW SPIRITUALLY ??
Besides, the confusion of which "category" do you fit in was escalating. I knew a 7th corps guy who firmly believed that his calling was to be "a business man" and be the first to donate ONE MILLION DOLLARS to twi.
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socks
I think I recognize that Million Dollar Man Sky.
Wonder if he did it?
I guess...I'd describe it as VPW's Plan A, sort of a base level of training and committment that he always wanted from day one, whenever that was. The Corps program could have very well tanked over and over and to hear him talk at the time it was a constant up and down of achievement and failure. But I know many people on staff that he personally encouraged to "go Corps" and remember him clearly saying his long range vision was everyone, staff, twig coordinators, etc. to be Corps graduates. So to some that meant go in early and get "assigned" somewhere to something forever. To others it meant step out of your gig whatever it was and complete the Corps program and then continue on.
Plus, the mass body of Corps grads were a pretty flexible group of people that remained largely open to any assignment that rolled out the pike. But I'd also say he fully expected people to develop pursuits of their own that could very well direct their future "careers". It's at that point, say late 70's, that I'd say the whole synergy of programs, classes and direction VPW had built started slowly imploding on itself. Masses of people running around doing...what? Sooner or later everyone was going to get older, marry, have families, and develop interests. But sequestered in Way World Brain Freeze it was as if a whole couple generations turned in to Peter Pans, thinking everyone would keep on doing what they'd done, forever. There was a HUGE need for a real retooling of the ministry vision and plan to build for a future, but it never really took hold enough to allow for the dialogue to begin.
I do know that VPW began to address that very specifically in 1984 the year before he died at the Corps Week but he was pretty much shut down by Craig and the Trunk office for lack of time or interest. But some of us were very interested. Like me, I'd had one foot out the door for a few years already, it was just a matter of time before I'd have taken a different direction with our family.
I've always felt that, had their been no "POP", there would have been a poop of some kind eventually. The closed-corporation culture of the Way was just too limiiting to work long term. Look at them now, not exactly taking the world by storm, perfectly happy to doink along.
But, then...there was one staff couple, been there for years, kept going to meetings where VPW would go on and on about how he wanted the Corps to be the real training ground, how everyone should at least consider it, etc. etc. So they applied, told everyone, did all the preparations and got accepted and went to Emporia. So the first week or so of the program the husband bumped in to VPW at a Corps meeting. He told me later he said "What are you doing here?!" When he said uh, they were in the corps program now he acted surprised. So go figure.
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Hope R.
Sky -
I think what you're thinking of is the after POP staff.
After the first great exodus of the late 80's, there weren't many staffers at HQ's who were Way Corps. So they lowered their standards! They would take anyone who was an A/C grad for a while.
The folks who left our area to have the "privilege" of living on the farm had to make at least a 2 year commitment. I guess if they worked out, they'd be asked to stay longer.
But for quite a few years there was not 100% Corps on staff - there weren't enough Corps to fill the positions left by the "cop-outs"
--> !
I think TWI had more than two sides to it. Heck, Way Productions was in its own little world - and I don't think they fit into either of your original catagories.
Think about all the "worker bees" - those who weren't doing the business/organizational/professional side of TWI. Housekeeping, Way Builders, Grounds Crew to name a few. They all had to be Corps Grads, too when TWI got bigger. But after POP, I think they were lucky to get anyone they felt was worthy enough to clean the toilets in the BRC!
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skyrider
Socks....yeah, "step out of your gig" and get some corps training [programming] and then, by manipulation, you're [my] corps. For a time, some received a recognized status by a one-year attendence into corps training.....others got special treatment and never went inresidence.
This "corps status" was such a high degree of spirituality that even Don and Howard were publically recognized for their decades of service to twi and given special corps designation! It just wasn't good enough with the corps nametag??
But my point in this thread......around 1978-1985 there was a distinct mentality within twi regarding service/support oriented people and those striving in spiritual leadership. And, the Word in Business Conferences only perpetuated this thinking and widened the chasm.
And socks.......good point about "if there had been no poop, there would have been a poop of some kind eventually." Just too many leaders and too disorganized to remain intact.
And hope.....I agree with you that twi had more than two sides to it. I see what you mean, but I wasn't approaching it from that angle. I guess being around Don W. and seeing the progression of WIB had an impact. Plus, several of my staff friends bluntly said that they had NO desire to go into the corps, because they were support people and that was that!
Plus, I vividly remember this Acts 6:1-7 being taught at a HQ Staff Meeting. Maybe, what was being highlighted was taken on another tangent?
It's happened before.
:D--> 
:D-->
skyrider
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socks
Yeah, Sky, that's my take. The only thing that never changes is that everything always changes. Regardless how we evaluate VPW's life and efforts, I know he did have a broad 'vision' of what he was trying to do with the Way that included long term planning, families, business, the arts, entertainment, all that stuff. All it really boiled down to was - what would a group of people do that were all working from the same base of understanding of the 'accuracy of the Word. How would that be reflected in their efforts if they tried to apply it in some meaningful way.
There was a lot of that, as you'd expect. But, by orchestrating so many things so personally himself and running them out of his own center, the basic essence of authentic behavior and true natural expression was stunted. It's like saying "everyone be smart...right now! and do something really great! and be happy, too!" What you get is what you asked for, not what would have naturally flowed from the people themselves. All of the tunnel visioned Corps this and Staff that and blah blah blah was like planting a 100 pound weight on the ankle of a baby.
Revolutions are messy, dynamic, thrilling, and tumultuous. People make mistakes, fail, succeed. They lurch forward 5 steps and drop back two and then broad jump 25 in a single leap. They aren't orchestrated and dressed up in frills and foam core and delivered in retermorized oratory and repeated till everyone knows what to say and when to laugh and applaud at all the right times.
When I really look at the numbers of enthusiastic people that came through the Way over the years - the intelligence, talent, imagination....you have to wonder what might have happened had VPW simply said "I'll teach the bible. I like to do that. Then I'd like to help all of you see what you can really do....who's first?"
Myself, I'm not the least bit nostalgic for the past, but it was my life and I lived it. We all have the opportunity to learn from life and reflect upon it and evaluate the gains and learn from the losses. Y'know?
:)-->
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
I thot that was always the standard.
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JustThinking
TSRTS,
There was a big push in our area during the early 90s to get people on staff. They LCs were aware of HQ's "needs" and scouted for worker bees that were dumb, uh, spiritual enough to work on a "need basis."
It was presented almost like University of Life. "Not going in the corps but want to grow..." Nothing new under the sun there.
;)-->
JT
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My3Cents
Socks, I'd have to sort of disagree. From the perspective I had when I was in that seemed to be the case. Now that I know a bit more about how to manage an organization, and about different emotional and interpersonal strengths and weaknesses I'd have to say different.
What I'd say now is he talked as if he had this vision - but had no consistency about any of the management of it - or even the priorities involved. He'd blow hot and cold. One day something or someone would be the greatest and next day it would not. There was never any logical plan. This was pawned off as "being spiritual" but in reality it's a very common pattern among alcoholics.
The vision and the spirituality was a gloss put over the top that kept people like us from admiting what was really going on: A meglomaniac with poor judgement, impulsive outbursts and zero morals or character.
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socks
I'll split the difference with you, which was why I chose "vision" as a description.
:D--> I think a lot of ideas floated, ideas that would have been useful had they ever gotten off the ground. Not too many did, other than the locations for further Way Corps training programs. I agree, if there had ever been a genunine interest in doing them they would have been given some time money and effort. Gunnison and Tinney would be examples I think of failed locations that really served no serious purpose if you were interested in expanding the scope of activities of a church like the Way. They just pandered to the idea of having more locations to do what was already being done, and not that well, at locations like Emporia and Rome City that already were underway.
Way Productions is another. It's completely gone the road of being "household" entertainment. True expression in any range of the arts is zero. Corporate Way bottomed out on any coherent "Word in Culture" development. And not to slight anyone still with them that might have some talent, they had a huge human brain drain amongst all the people who left, those who had any real efforts going on in those areas.
The "Sunset Corps" program was another. It would have had to be started early, years before any use of it. No planning, no investment. Just an idea that wafted away. Now there's a huge portion of the Way members that are reaching retirement age, lots who have had the guts of their lives ravaged by the no-debt, no mortgage policies and misguided plans like full-time Way Corps 'staff' nationwide' that LCM initiated. There's so little to show for all the years, time, money and lives that have gone through their ministry. It's such a waste. But, like the guy who asked for directions and was told "you can't get their from here", the Way will never recover what was lost. Easy for them to say "we're looking to the future and not the past!" but with that kind of record, who in there right mind would treat them seriously? They cycle every few years, change direction, boot out or chase out anyone that doesn't march to their pipe and drum. They effectively stop any input of new ideas if it threatens their safe little niche in New Knoxville, god forbid anything should actually change that might be an improvement!
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shazdancer
Dear socks and 3Cents,
It is always easy to be an idea man, much harder to fill in the details and actually carry out the plan. It is easy to walk into a room and tell those in charge what is wrong with their program, much harder to work day after day with others who may not have the same
vision, talent, or work ethic.
Heck, I do that all the time in gymnastics -- walk in and tell the coach what their kid is doing wrong. That's the easy part, having a good eye. The hard part is working with the young athlete day in and day out, on good days, injured days, distracted days. I have a lot of respect for the athletes that take what I tell them and actually work on it.
VP loved to have those "big vision" moments. I don't think he was all that good at following through. Funny that he turned the guilt for that onto us -- the "consider a suggestion as a command" doctrine. WE were supposed to fill in all the details. Then VP could come back and tell us where we were "off." The easy part.
Alcoholic? Yeah. And narcissistic. They both tend to be lazy, and hate to take responsibility.
I always heard how "Doctor" worked so hard. But I didn't see it.
Regards,
Shaz
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Belle
Yeppers, Socks. And even that's a lie. They don't look at the future, they just look at the present and how much money and control they can have right now. The only future they look at is "the hope". They totally skip past any logical forethought or planning for the immediate future or retirement years for their people.
I remember one wc person, when asked about paying cash for a home, saying, "We may not be able to pay cash for a home, but we can save so that our kids can. Isn't that a great thing to be able to do?" It's as if they know they're giving people unrealistic expectations but refuse to change. And how many people can afford to save for their children't home if they don't even have enough retirement and college money put away because of the ridiculous counsel of TWIts?
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skyrider
My3Cents.....yeah, vpw pawned off all kinds of "hot ideas" that were presented with a spiritual backdrop.
At one time, Camp Gunnison was going to be a "spiritual vacation spot" where people in their sunset years could enjoy "their" retirement home on Way property. A nice restaurant was going to be built up on the hill by the water tower. More buildings across the river. All sorts of grandeur ideas.
The sno-way.....an all-terrain vehicle was being built by Al Grumelxt and another guy. It was going to revolutionize all-terrain transportation.
At one time.....some Indy race car driver was wanting vpw (twi) to sponsor him. Vpw highly considered this as a great promotional avenue for twi. In the end, I think that some finally talked vp out of it.
High Country Caravan entertainment and performing at the Grand Ole Opry......vpw's vision was to keep this stuff going. Why should "his" people expect any less.
Rock of Ages on a region level......why not?
Ideas, ideas, ideas.....and yet, vpw was "limited" until his people rose up in their believing. Guilt motivation? Absolutely.
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