Craig and VP's relationship?

[jardinero]

HCW:

Before I start, let me also welcome you to the cultfe and thank you for being so open with us in your first postings here. This thread has certainly been a thought provoking one...

You said:

quote:

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What I am saying is I think God DID tell us. It was the totalitarian nature of the "leadership" structure that put VPW & Craig "above" everyone else. It seemed to me, looking back with 20-20 hindsight vision, that they two appeared to be at the TIP top of the "top" leadership.

Leadership "layers" developed. Its not like we, who were on the "lower" layers didn't fight the wrongs. In fact, I feel it was quite the opposite. In the 80's HQ seemed kinda "noisy" in comarison to how it seemed to be during the first year I lived there in '78-'79 and in visits to HQ prior to '78.

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I agree. I'm a NoCal girl who got involved in '73 and the folks I hung with were definitely moving with God. People were led into tongues on the street, we openly shared Christ (vs. PFAL)with others, I witnessed healings, etc. We were family and "titles" didn't mean a lot. We heard now and then stories of Limb guys and VP who were coming on to girls (I had it happen to me with one of ours) and you just wrote it off as just one person who was "tripped out" or totally unbelievable for a MOG. And coming out of the hippie generation and being sexually active myself, you just made excuse after excuse. I do think God was waving the red flag over and over again til He finally put it away cuz we couldn't hear over all the group noise (good analogy).

By the late 70s, early 80s we were some of the few non-Corps who were Branch Leaders and boy were we treated differently than the Corps grads!!! This is about the time Bo went into the Sloan Fellowship at Stanford. The corporate stuff was observable right around that time. Then the 8th Corps came on the field and the new position of "Area Coordinators" came about and a whole new corporate structure came about. These guys were "administrators" with the 3-piece suits and briefcases, etc. We got tired of fighting it after a while - - it was kinda like running full steam into a brick wall - - and finally started conforming. We waited a long time to go into the Corps and finally did, cuz we were bound and determined (like others here) to change it from the inside - - HA!

You're right, HCW - - -a number of us pushed back. Concurrent classes??? Special reports??? More and more big meetings taking more and more of our time....We fought back until we were blue in the face.

And on the local scene, a twig guy physically abusing people -- yeah, we got involved and got the police involved. Another guy was abusing his wife. Yeah, we called the cops for protection and packed her stuff and moved her to a safe place. But, like you, I came out of a family background where I had this kind of stuff thrust on me and did not live in "The Way Bubble" like some others - - so I wasn't afraid to insist that these guys pay for their actions.

But the totalitarian nature of the org did get to us. In behavioral science it's called "group think" and the peer pressure gets to you and you eventually start down a path until you don't recognize yourself anymore.

I've been out since '89 and have taken Board training (as in Board of Directors) for 501c3 nonprofit leadership. It amazed me that it is REQUIRED that a public record be taken of all board meetings and is SUPPOSED TO BE available to the public. Financial records are supposed to be reviewable by "members" (maybe that's how they got around it, there were only 3 "members" in twi) and each board member has a fiduciary responsibility to report any monkey business or they can be named in a lawsuit for their negligence.

So, I'm with you. I'll never be a part of an organization again unless there is that kind of accountability and transparency.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Good questions and good answers on this thread. Thanks again for being you.

J.

[WordWolf]

On 1/17/2005 at 1:04 PM, TheEvan said:

Over the years, both here & on Waydale, I've seen countless posters come in and call the time of their entry into 'the ministry' as the good old days, the days that really were happenin'.

I could argue that socks or me, with our entry in '69 & '70 respectively, came in on the really good old days. So it seemed to me. To me the big change was when Wierwille staged a coup on the Way West&East and coopted those ministries as his own (a familiar pattern if you follow what he did to BG Leonard).

So to you, the big change was when Harry died. Yeah, he was different after that, but i didn't see a marked change in Der Veg, just a continued slide in the direction it had charted years earlier.

For others, their time of entry was dem golden days.

Back to Leonard. Being cataloger of old photos and such, surely you are familiar with the photos of Wierwille's first two "PFAL" classes? Well, most everybody was, as they were published often enough. Did you ever see the rest of them? Like the ones picturing the water baptisms? I did. But i didn't see them in Da Way. I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture. It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times.

As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class. He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing. The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregatin in O-hiya. Hmmm. Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-oted the man's work as his own. FAMILIAR PATTERN!

All of which disqualifies him in any way from having been in public ministry of any kind. Period. However you burnish it and photograph it with a warm hazy glow, the conclusion is clear in the harsh light of day.

This got lost in the middle of the thread.

[Twinky]

Oops

Edited September 7, 2022 by Twinky

[Twinky]

For anyone who might be interested in returning to the original subject of this thread:

(It's from the Offshoots subforum: Craig has his own splinter group).

On 8/27/2022 at 7:13 PM, BecomingMe said:

Hi, friends! Sorry I'm late to the party. I step in and out of cult world, because it's just too heavy sometimes. I'm Craig's oldest kid and wanted to jump on this thread to help out if I can...

...

Dad [LCN] is actually doing these "teachings" currently, and most (if not all?) of his followers are ex-Way people. This frustrates me to no end. How many people will he hurt and mislead in his lifetime?

As to the question of his mental health and where he went astray -- out of respect and love for my grandmother, who is still living, I won't give details here. But parts of his childhood were intensely traumatic. This might sound odd, but, as far as I can have compassion for him, I believe he was born a gentle soul and is rather fragile. Hence all the bluster and anger and defensiveness (and face meltings). I don't write this to excuse his behavior, but I find that understanding him helps me, at least. He was primed to need a daddy figure, and he got one in Wierwille.

He has seen a counselor. Briefly, in 2000, maybe for about a year. I also saw this counselor, and he helped me immensely in a time of deep depression. I think he was hardly able to scratch the surface with dad. Dad attended out of obligation at the time.

What else...? If you have questions, I'll answer them if I can <3