honestly hcw does not curse. in fact, he wishes he could. he probably tried it out here for the first time. it is sooooooo against his nature. but i egged him on in the chat room (i'm sorry paw). it was all in fun. he didn't realize how strict it is here. it's my fault.
Geeze, untangling the knot of one's past sure gets complicated.
Recognizing VPW and company as total skunks, doesn't have to steal one's life away. I guess it just depends on how one defines himself/herself. Hopefully, we are all bigger than our mistakes. :)--> and our past gullilibility.
On the from Birth to the Corps thing. I should have mentioned highly edited versions of personal testimonies, only printed w/ permission and pen names, of course.
We were told the purpose of it was to illustrate God's calling on people's lives.
Actually, to kind come full circle on my "remark...." Had I known, & I wish that any of our sisters had told me of the abuse going on, I would have marched directly to the Shelby County Sherrif's office. I would have stood by their side in support throughout the whole legal process.
That is precisely what I did when my daughter came to me. She told me on a Sunday evening and we were filing a criminal report first thing Monday mornning.
I may have posted some positive things concerning VPW & LCM on this thread but I didn't like either of them enough to turn a blind eye on that.
Thank you for your last post. That's all I needed to hear.
quote:I may have posted some positive things concerning VPW & LCM on this thread but I didn't like either of them enough to turn a blind eye on that.
There are some who have posted on this board who have defended that conduct and who absolutely would either a) turn a blind eye, b) set up "dates," or c) try to get in on the MOG action for themselves. That's why my extreme attitude.
I like my coffee light & sweet Mark, "just like my women" -->
I'm kidding, about the women part.
How do you take yours?
My cyber hand is extended....
Most of by best friendships developed after a fight.
##################################33
ANYONE who defends that activity is INSANE. I don't care WHO they are, what position they held, OR what great thing they've EVER done.
Period.
I Corinthians 5 tells us what we should have done....V2: "he that hath done this might be taken away from among you...
to deliver such an one over to Satan, for the destruction of the flesh...
Know ye dont that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?...
Purge out the old leaven that ye may be a new lump...
I wrote unto you...not to company with fornicators...
if any man that is called a fornicator...
or a railer, or drunkard...with such an one, no not to eat...
Therefore, put away from yourselves that wicked person.
We didn't do that.
Noting the "priciple of finger pointing" my "remark" comes back to me. What did YOU do HC? WHY didn't you know? What was it about YOU that made YOU, HC, susceptable to THEM so that YOU could not protect your beloved sisters in Christ.
I didn't know... is NOT good enough. How far does "I'm sorry." heal?
There have been a few times in my life when I have felt that "and he rent his clothes..." most devastating type of pain.
When:
- my daughter told me...
- I heard of the death of my father...
- ... death of my mother ...
- I read the results of a paternity test. It had my name on it and said of my now three year old daughter that I am...
"...rejected as the biological father."
Have you ever screamed and moaned and cried at the same time, so much so that it felt like the agony had a life of its own?
You kinda don't want to feel it again and feel like you'd be willing to do most anything to avoid it and help anyone else avoid it.
Thanks HCW.....may I sit at this table and share a reconciliatory cup of coffee with you folks?
Those verses you quoted say it all.........Your questions fit right in with some of the same hard questions that we all are trying to find the answeres to........trying to fit all of the crazy pieces of the puzzle together in order to understand the whole picture.
Why didn`t I know? Where was God? What made me vulnerable? If God was there, why couldn`t he have prevented us from becoming prey for these predators? How do I make damn sure it never happens again?
quote:The folks who didn't know about that, are not responsible and are blameless.
Agreed. However, I'm still somewhat driven when it comes to this subject by this:
"And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned,..."
I Corinthians 5:2a
I honestly cannot deny that there had to be SOME sort of "puffin' up" in my head that kept me blind to what was going on. I'm speaking for myself now and any other Way Corps grad who was committed to Corps Principal #1:
Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness.
Seeing as GOD certainly knew what was going on, we possibly COULD have found out from him. I'm just bein' real, not kicking my or anybody else's butt or saying "we should have known."
What I am saying is I think God DID tell us. It was the totalitarian nature of the "leadership" structure that put VPW & Craig "above" everyone else. It seemed to me, looking back with 20-20 hindsight vision, that they two appeared to be at the TIP top of the "top" leadership.
Leadership "layers" developed. Its not like we, who were on the "lower" layers didn't fight the wrongs. In fact, I feel it was quite the opposite. In the 80's HQ seemed kinda "noisy" in comarison to how it seemed to be during the first year I lived there in '78-'79 and in visits to HQ prior to '78.
I definitely noticed a difference when I came back to my staff position after three years in the Corps. HQ had an "air" about it like being outside at night in a big snowfall. You could almost "hear" the peace like you can almost "hear" the silence out in the snow. Footsteps sound like "poof" even when you stomp as hard as you can. When I came back it had more of a crispness, a "corporate" feel. There was also a steadily increasing amount of arguments among newby staff "leadership" who ordered old timers to do things contrary to the "old ways."
The organization itself didn't "rather morn" enough to do the right thing. But then again, the corporate structure.... Legally there were only three members of The Way International.
Harry, Ermal & VP, the original three trustees. By the law of the land we were powerless to "take away from" us VPW. We couldn't legally put him out if we wanted to. I'm thinking part of that "noise" I percieved was the sound of the Holy Spirit being grieved. There was an increasing, "my way or the highway" attitude. Lots of folks left too.
So. I'm not tring to take responsibility or pass responsibility to victims or those who didn't know. I'm just saying that, in foreward looking hindsight, "I didn't know" was not enough to save people. Now that we DO know what DID occur, we can certainly stay out of "The Way" of totalitarian organizations like The Way.
Totalitarian organizational structure, by its very nature is WRONG. It primarily paves the way for abuse of the individual. It is and always be the most precious ones of society that will be hurt. Our injured, our youngest, our least experienced, our sweetest, most trusting ones WILL be the ones whom our adversary, like a roaring lion will steal, kill, destroy and devour.
I would say this. CHALLENGE in whatever manner suits your personality.... challenge leadership to put power in the hands of the people. When they smile at you and gently say, "Oh we couldn't do that ..."
You can smile back at them and gently tug their mask off & say, just as gently..."Oh. You ARE a wolf, aren't you.
Then do a dignified "180" and show them your six as you walk out the door.
quote:What I am saying is I think God DID tell us. It was the totalitarian nature of the "leadership" structure that put VPW & Craig "above" everyone else. It seemed to me, looking back with 20-20 hindsight vision, that they two appeared to be at the TIP top of the "top" leadership.
Leadership "layers" developed. Its not like we, who were on the "lower" layers didn't fight the wrongs. In fact, I feel it was quite the opposite.
HCW......absolutely! Year after year, LOTS of folks left. My regret is that I wasn't one of them.....but, then again, I will say that things can get very intertwining and complicated when a spouse is involved, relatives are involved, children are involved.
As much as I regret staying too long.....that "too long" standard helped LOTS OF US to get out at the same time, in one piece. By then, it was unquestionably obvious that twi was beyond salvaging.
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Twinky
For anyone who might be interested in returning to the original subject of this thread: (It's from the Offshoots subforum: Craig has his own splinter group).
excathedra
honestly hcw does not curse. in fact, he wishes he could. he probably tried it out here for the first time. it is sooooooo against his nature. but i egged him on in the chat room (i'm sorry paw). it was all in fun. he didn't realize how strict it is here. it's my fault.
**
Kaveh Kamyar.... i loved him so much.
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Tom Strange
Laleo, good points...
HCW, good points...
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HCW
Kaveh...............
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HCW
How????????
I count meeting and becoming friends w/ Kaveh Kamyar as one of the singularly great priviledges of my life.
His personal testemony changed my life on the spot.
Tears and great anguish of heart. The world is lessened with his loss.
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ex10
Geeze, untangling the knot of one's past sure gets complicated.
Recognizing VPW and company as total skunks, doesn't have to steal one's life away. I guess it just depends on how one defines himself/herself. Hopefully, we are all bigger than our mistakes.
:)--> and our past gullilibility.
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HCW
Radar;
On the from Birth to the Corps thing. I should have mentioned highly edited versions of personal testimonies, only printed w/ permission and pen names, of course.
We were told the purpose of it was to illustrate God's calling on people's lives.
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ex10
PS
HCW
Love you, dear. You were one of the brightest spots in my Way experience.
:)-->
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houseisarockin
HCW, thank you for the balance of your thoughts. And for caring to lay them out when we questioned.
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HCW
You're quite welcome... and thank you all for your kind words.
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Raf
HCW,
I left you a PT yesterday. Don't know if you've had a chance to see it.
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HCW
no RAF I haven't seen it. Not sure if I know to get to it today.... help.
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Steve!
At the top of the screen, click on "Go", "My Space", "Private Messaging".
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HCW
Thanks again House...
Actually, to kind come full circle on my "remark...." Had I known, & I wish that any of our sisters had told me of the abuse going on, I would have marched directly to the Shelby County Sherrif's office. I would have stood by their side in support throughout the whole legal process.
That is precisely what I did when my daughter came to me. She told me on a Sunday evening and we were filing a criminal report first thing Monday mornning.
I may have posted some positive things concerning VPW & LCM on this thread but I didn't like either of them enough to turn a blind eye on that.
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houseisarockin
Your welcome and I'm very sorry for what you've had to endure with your family.
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markomalley
HCW:
Thank you for your last post. That's all I needed to hear.
There are some who have posted on this board who have defended that conduct and who absolutely would either a) turn a blind eye, b) set up "dates," or c) try to get in on the MOG action for themselves. That's why my extreme attitude.
Let me buy you a cup of coffee.
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HCW
I like my coffee light & sweet Mark, "just like my women"
-->
I'm kidding, about the women part.
How do you take yours?
My cyber hand is extended....
Most of by best friendships developed after a fight.
##################################33
ANYONE who defends that activity is INSANE. I don't care WHO they are, what position they held, OR what great thing they've EVER done.
Period.
I Corinthians 5 tells us what we should have done....V2: "he that hath done this might be taken away from among you...
to deliver such an one over to Satan, for the destruction of the flesh...
Know ye dont that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?...
Purge out the old leaven that ye may be a new lump...
I wrote unto you...not to company with fornicators...
if any man that is called a fornicator...
or a railer, or drunkard...with such an one, no not to eat...
Therefore, put away from yourselves that wicked person.
We didn't do that.
Noting the "priciple of finger pointing" my "remark" comes back to me. What did YOU do HC? WHY didn't you know? What was it about YOU that made YOU, HC, susceptable to THEM so that YOU could not protect your beloved sisters in Christ.
I didn't know... is NOT good enough. How far does "I'm sorry." heal?
There have been a few times in my life when I have felt that "and he rent his clothes..." most devastating type of pain.
When:
- my daughter told me...
- I heard of the death of my father...
- ... death of my mother ...
- I read the results of a paternity test. It had my name on it and said of my now three year old daughter that I am...
"...rejected as the biological father."
Have you ever screamed and moaned and cried at the same time, so much so that it felt like the agony had a life of its own?
You kinda don't want to feel it again and feel like you'd be willing to do most anything to avoid it and help anyone else avoid it.
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excathedra
amen and amen
(((((((((( hcw ))))))))))
those are my hugs from me to you
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Belle
HCW, thanks for taking the time to clarify. That's a position I can respect.
May I buy you a danish to go with that cup of coffee?
:)-->
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oldiesman
The folks who didn't know about that, are not responsible and are blameless.
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rascal
Thanks HCW.....may I sit at this table and share a reconciliatory cup of coffee with you folks?
Those verses you quoted say it all.........Your questions fit right in with some of the same hard questions that we all are trying to find the answeres to........trying to fit all of the crazy pieces of the puzzle together in order to understand the whole picture.
Why didn`t I know? Where was God? What made me vulnerable? If God was there, why couldn`t he have prevented us from becoming prey for these predators? How do I make damn sure it never happens again?
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HCW
Agreed. However, I'm still somewhat driven when it comes to this subject by this:
"And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned,..."
I Corinthians 5:2a
I honestly cannot deny that there had to be SOME sort of "puffin' up" in my head that kept me blind to what was going on. I'm speaking for myself now and any other Way Corps grad who was committed to Corps Principal #1:
Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness.
Seeing as GOD certainly knew what was going on, we possibly COULD have found out from him. I'm just bein' real, not kicking my or anybody else's butt or saying "we should have known."
What I am saying is I think God DID tell us. It was the totalitarian nature of the "leadership" structure that put VPW & Craig "above" everyone else. It seemed to me, looking back with 20-20 hindsight vision, that they two appeared to be at the TIP top of the "top" leadership.
Leadership "layers" developed. Its not like we, who were on the "lower" layers didn't fight the wrongs. In fact, I feel it was quite the opposite. In the 80's HQ seemed kinda "noisy" in comarison to how it seemed to be during the first year I lived there in '78-'79 and in visits to HQ prior to '78.
I definitely noticed a difference when I came back to my staff position after three years in the Corps. HQ had an "air" about it like being outside at night in a big snowfall. You could almost "hear" the peace like you can almost "hear" the silence out in the snow. Footsteps sound like "poof" even when you stomp as hard as you can. When I came back it had more of a crispness, a "corporate" feel. There was also a steadily increasing amount of arguments among newby staff "leadership" who ordered old timers to do things contrary to the "old ways."
The organization itself didn't "rather morn" enough to do the right thing. But then again, the corporate structure.... Legally there were only three members of The Way International.
Harry, Ermal & VP, the original three trustees. By the law of the land we were powerless to "take away from" us VPW. We couldn't legally put him out if we wanted to. I'm thinking part of that "noise" I percieved was the sound of the Holy Spirit being grieved. There was an increasing, "my way or the highway" attitude. Lots of folks left too.
So. I'm not tring to take responsibility or pass responsibility to victims or those who didn't know. I'm just saying that, in foreward looking hindsight, "I didn't know" was not enough to save people. Now that we DO know what DID occur, we can certainly stay out of "The Way" of totalitarian organizations like The Way.
Totalitarian organizational structure, by its very nature is WRONG. It primarily paves the way for abuse of the individual. It is and always be the most precious ones of society that will be hurt. Our injured, our youngest, our least experienced, our sweetest, most trusting ones WILL be the ones whom our adversary, like a roaring lion will steal, kill, destroy and devour.
I would say this. CHALLENGE in whatever manner suits your personality.... challenge leadership to put power in the hands of the people. When they smile at you and gently say, "Oh we couldn't do that ..."
You can smile back at them and gently tug their mask off & say, just as gently..."Oh. You ARE a wolf, aren't you.
Then do a dignified "180" and show them your six as you walk out the door.
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HCW
PS....
I count any of you who were hurt among the "most precious" mentioned above.
We're gonna need a bigger pot.......
:)-->
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HCW
...BTW...
Cream cheese danish with the white stripes is my fav.
Thank you.
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skyrider
HCW......absolutely! Year after year, LOTS of folks left. My regret is that I wasn't one of them.....but, then again, I will say that things can get very intertwining and complicated when a spouse is involved, relatives are involved, children are involved.
As much as I regret staying too long.....that "too long" standard helped LOTS OF US to get out at the same time, in one piece. By then, it was unquestionably obvious that twi was beyond salvaging.
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