Well it has never been firmly established that LCM is really *out* of TWI so it is entirely possible that he is doing some form of penance. In my opinion, given the legal heat it was most likely a strong suggestion by TWI's legal team that led to Craig's "dismissal" though I would not at all be surprised to hear that he is still getting money from TWI and that at some point in the future he will return to some form of official participation. According to posts here, his "books" are still sold through the booksore , err bookstore and his wife has been permitted to remain on site so it seems to me that Craig's departure is merely a cosmetic gesture and nothing else.
Why should he startd a splinter group? Why can't he just compare himself to the Apostle Paul who was greatet among the sinners yet reformed. Even though we aren't to compare ourselves with othes, TWI makes great inuendos.
He can just spend a few years away from the limelight of TWI, his books are still sold in there bookstore, and his classes are still being presented .......... so why not return ........
JUST COME BACK at the RIGHT TIME ....... announce he is back at the ministry that he has worked out all his problems ......... his apology is that he left the leadership in Rosies most capable hands until he got himself correct with the word. His wife is still part of TWI
Why wouldn't he just go back to that faithful remnant of the MOG.
Forgive him ........... sure thats what the word says .............. it doesn't say we have to be hurt by him again.
He will never apologize to us Greasers no need, we are no longer giving our income to TWI. Why apologize to us ......... we are not considered his brethren if we are not in his ekklesia. Although I would like an apology and not only that .......... he should ask us for forgiveness .......
there is a big difference from apologizing to someone simply saying I am sorry and asking someone to forgive you. ......... You see to say Im sorry puts it on the person being apologized to to have to accept ... to say ......... will you forgive me for my wrongdoing to you, puts it back on him to have to be accepted.
LCM will come back some day. TWI doctrine is his doctrine "The Present True" . For example in Mexico they continue playing the Way Class in video with Loy. His family lives in HQ. Rosi was or is His confident. She is just taking care of things.
OK. "It is ruomored" that Loy has become a personal trainor. EWWWWWW the worst of both worlds - LCM in tights ..AND having an excuse to get his hands on women. YUK YUK YUK
I don't think that 'ol Loy Boy has enough grey matter to start up a splinter group. More cobwebs and a few bats, MAYBE, than grey matter.
Also, with all of the bad press that LCM has going around the internet, he stands a better chance of getting back in TWI if he wouldn't do like he did when he got kicked out. BUT, if he did come back would the people accept him back that are still current followers??? iIf I was still in and Craig was reinstalled as Prez. I would take a VERY serious look at staying.
I know that if a person says that they have repented that they should deserve a second chance, But really now, if you were burnt by LCM, would you want to risk getting burnt again if you happened to cross him the wrong way? :huh:
Well, it took some of us a looooong time, years, to come to our senses, depending on how long we'd been in and what "level" we had achieved.
We have to give him a loooooooooooooong time to come to his senses and then maybe he'll begin to realize, really realize, what he's done.
Then, if he tried to go back to TWI (would he?), he'd be on spiritual probation for a further jolly loooooooooong time, supervised by RFR - who is too ambitious and too comfortable to ever give up the Prez-ship.
Shedloads of WC did go out and simply start up new fellowships, from scratch, new people they witnessed to.
It must be years since LCM "witnessed" to any new person. I reckon he would have tried. Then wondered why nobody wanted to listen to him. Especially if he got into his private interpretation of some of the most basic scriptures that churchy Christians know.
Thanks for bringing this thread to Cafe attention again, WW.
I've seen that GSC picture of Rozilla floating and gloating in her bathing suit in that cheap above-ground swimming pool at her house. You'd think, with the millions of dollars that TWI has in the bank, they could afford a respectable in-ground pool for her to cool her thunder thighs in the summer heat. She works hard, after all.
Oh. Right. This thread is about Loy. So I should keep the thread going. OK. Here it goes. Loy is an ijjit who spends too much time thinking with his little head. Loy must feel like .... for steering God's own household onto the rocks.
One must admit, though, that Loy has better legs than Rozilla. At least he used to. From what I remember about them. Very firm thighs.
Considering how hard it is for hardcore sexual addicts, predators, and swingers to change their habits, I doubt if he would be able to mainstream himself in regards to any religeous affiliation, with the exception of the Children of God cult or some sort of sex cult. Â Considering how hard it is for homosexuals to change their sexual proclivities, it would be hard for him to do likewise, sort of ironic in that respect considering his homophobic tirades. Â
He never seemed to be a tower of restraint in any aspect of his life before, he is certainly profoundly mentally and emotionally screwed up, although if he does come to his senses there is help for him through professional psychiatry.
LCM doesn't have the drive to start his own thing. Besides, he doesn't have what it takes to get people to follow him. All of the glory he experienced as the MOG was from confused people who thought he was the "right" MOG (not Geer) because VPW passed the mantle to LCM and set him up in the perfect spot. He never would have been able to achieve that on his own. After the big split between the LCM and Geerite followers, LCM made sure that every new grad of PFAL saw the video of VPW passing the mantle to him. I think that speaks VOLUMES about what he was trying to prove.
LCM boasted how he could be the CEO of any corporation. Yet he's held lowly jobs, not even a career. I had a friend in Toledo who saw him working at Home Depot. She had been to his efficiency apartment, and she said his hair looked wild like the scientist on "Back to the Future". She said he had no remorse over his actions, and he truly believes women wanted sex with him. She said he still believe they were consentual sexual affairs. As a minister, he made GRAVE mistakes and used his power in that position to dupe women in to believing it was OK. She seemed to get the impression that he viewed it as bitches in heat coming to him for it. I tried to get her to come to GSC and tell what she talked about, but she didnt' want to. The funny thing is when I was on Staff with her, I thought she was trying to catch his eye.
I believe LCM was responsible for really taking TWI over the CULT ledge with his lunacy, demands, and expectations. VPW wasn't as verbose about his lunacy, but he was even sicker than LCM. When some people here mention that VPW told LCM to loosen up sexually, that is where I believe LCM bought in to the ticket that sexual freedom within the confines of Christianity is OK. It seems there must have been a time that LCM must have questioned it. He obviously gave in to it because he wanted to believe it was OK too. Then he made a specialized doctrine out of it.
For those of you who weren't around when a guy who does cult research ran in to LCM in a social setting came to GSC, it is a a must read. Here's the link: Conversations with Craig Martindale
I'm sure LCM is a shell of a person. He had a lot of potential, but he used it in a really bad way. I believe he's experienceing the karma he deserves. It would be great if he woke up and apologized to all he hurt. I will be very surprised to ever see that happen.
[edited to correct what the guy who ran in to LCM does.]
I agree with some posters, he was the king at one time, his throne was usurped, I can see why he would not want to start his own splinter group either. He was the fall guy, no innies or outies would follow him. It just won't happen.
I do feel that, when LCM was young, in college, he really did want to know God and loved God. He fell into the hands of a pervert. I think VP had an inherent, sick, predatory evil, inside him, and LCM didn't. VPW had to teach it to Craig, it was not natural to him, and I would think, after LCM's initial shock, since he was a gung-ho follower of VP (I really think there was some kind of father/hero worship issue with LCM), he probably seared his conscience to give it place and believe what VP taught the "initiated" ones in that area. I don't think it came quickly or easily for LCM. As it took years for LCM to get to the point where he is now, I would hope, after many years, it will maybe dawn on him what he did. If he has any true love for God and Christ left, I do think God in his mercy can show him. I think if LCM ever did get it, his repentence would be real. I guess I'm thinking, maybe God hasn't thrown him away, totally, he is still his child. VPW - I still do not believe was ever His child. That's just me. I have a feeling some of the people on the "top" he surrounded himself weren't either. It was about power for them. Wolves preying on an innocent flock. That's why, from knowing LCM and how he always wanted his heart to be right with God, I cannot rule his repentence out someday, and do not put him in the same league with VP.
I do feel that, when LCM was young, in college, he really did want to know God and loved God.
</snip>
I'm actually suspicious of the idea that lcm ever "loved" god. I suspect he was like my ex in that regard, always looking for someplace to fit in and impress people. the most important thing to my ex is that people admire him. that's why he loved twi. he got a lot of admiration for his level of "commitment" because he was more than willing to let others do his thinking for him. he started out narcissistic, and twi only made him worst. IMO, that's a more realistic view of lcm than hoping there's the redeemable spark of a former self that probably never existed.
Ha!...Good to see my "years old" thread revived...
I tend to agree with potato...Jim Doop told me once that Martindale was a grade A a** hole from day one...
He was a firey speaker but that was it...he was all talk...no real compassion or heart felt desire to help people...at least, not from my experiences with him. The fact that Wierwille chose him to be the prez speaks volumes...
...and as far as him shooting off his pie hole about how he coulda been the top dog of a fortune 500 company...that's VERY revealing...he acted like he was doing us a favor...I thought that a Christian minister was acknowledging his "calling". A true Christian minister is someone who humbly serves people...not an egotistical blowhard who acts like he's doing you a favor by subjecting you to his ranting and raving...good grief!
...and as far as him shooting off his pie hole about how he coulda been the top dog of a fortune 500 company...that's VERY revealing...he acted like he was doing us a favor...I thought that a Christian minister was acknowledging his "calling". A true Christian minister is someone who humbly serves people...not an egotistical blowhard who acts like he's doing you a favor by subjecting you to his ranting and raving...good grief!
Yeah.......claiming that he could be some ceo for a fortune 500 company.
But.........the most grandiose claim that I ever heard from craiggers was in February 1997. When martinfail's "revelation" from God to have all field corps on twi's payroll and the numbers were dismal and pressure was mounting as finances dwindled in twi's coffers. So.......as martindale is, martindale does..........he escalates his confrontation assaults to the corps on a corps phone hook-up and bellows:
I could run every twig in the country from hq if I had to.
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WordWolf
Clicking this up since someone asked about it....
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diazbro
Well it has never been firmly established that LCM is really *out* of TWI so it is entirely possible that he is doing some form of penance. In my opinion, given the legal heat it was most likely a strong suggestion by TWI's legal team that led to Craig's "dismissal" though I would not at all be surprised to hear that he is still getting money from TWI and that at some point in the future he will return to some form of official participation. According to posts here, his "books" are still sold through the booksore , err bookstore and his wife has been permitted to remain on site so it seems to me that Craig's departure is merely a cosmetic gesture and nothing else.
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Digitalis
Why should he startd a splinter group? Why can't he just compare himself to the Apostle Paul who was greatet among the sinners yet reformed. Even though we aren't to compare ourselves with othes, TWI makes great inuendos.
He can just spend a few years away from the limelight of TWI, his books are still sold in there bookstore, and his classes are still being presented .......... so why not return ........
JUST COME BACK at the RIGHT TIME ....... announce he is back at the ministry that he has worked out all his problems ......... his apology is that he left the leadership in Rosies most capable hands until he got himself correct with the word. His wife is still part of TWI
Why wouldn't he just go back to that faithful remnant of the MOG.
Forgive him ........... sure thats what the word says .............. it doesn't say we have to be hurt by him again.
He will never apologize to us Greasers no need, we are no longer giving our income to TWI. Why apologize to us ......... we are not considered his brethren if we are not in his ekklesia. Although I would like an apology and not only that .......... he should ask us for forgiveness .......
there is a big difference from apologizing to someone simply saying I am sorry and asking someone to forgive you. ......... You see to say Im sorry puts it on the person being apologized to to have to accept ... to say ......... will you forgive me for my wrongdoing to you, puts it back on him to have to be accepted.
Digi
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themex
LCM will come back some day. TWI doctrine is his doctrine "The Present True" . For example in Mexico they continue playing the Way Class in video with Loy. His family lives in HQ. Rosi was or is His confident. She is just taking care of things.
;)
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doojable
OK. "It is ruomored" that Loy has become a personal trainor. EWWWWWW the worst of both worlds - LCM in tights ..AND having an excuse to get his hands on women. YUK YUK YUK
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danteh1
I don't think that 'ol Loy Boy has enough grey matter to start up a splinter group. More cobwebs and a few bats, MAYBE, than grey matter.
Also, with all of the bad press that LCM has going around the internet, he stands a better chance of getting back in TWI if he wouldn't do like he did when he got kicked out. BUT, if he did come back would the people accept him back that are still current followers??? iIf I was still in and Craig was reinstalled as Prez. I would take a VERY serious look at staying.
I know that if a person says that they have repented that they should deserve a second chance, But really now, if you were burnt by LCM, would you want to risk getting burnt again if you happened to cross him the wrong way? :huh:
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GrouchoMarxJr
Deserve a second chance to be president of twi?
Not hardly...I can see forgiving a person for their misdeeds but put him in charge again?
...I'd give him him a pooper scooper and put him in charge of cleaning streets.
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Twinky
Well, it took some of us a looooong time, years, to come to our senses, depending on how long we'd been in and what "level" we had achieved.
We have to give him a loooooooooooooong time to come to his senses and then maybe he'll begin to realize, really realize, what he's done.
Then, if he tried to go back to TWI (would he?), he'd be on spiritual probation for a further jolly loooooooooong time, supervised by RFR - who is too ambitious and too comfortable to ever give up the Prez-ship.
Shedloads of WC did go out and simply start up new fellowships, from scratch, new people they witnessed to.
It must be years since LCM "witnessed" to any new person. I reckon he would have tried. Then wondered why nobody wanted to listen to him. Especially if he got into his private interpretation of some of the most basic scriptures that churchy Christians know.
Thanks for bringing this thread to Cafe attention again, WW.
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OperaBuff
Rozilla. Heh!
I've seen that GSC picture of Rozilla floating and gloating in her bathing suit in that cheap above-ground swimming pool at her house. You'd think, with the millions of dollars that TWI has in the bank, they could afford a respectable in-ground pool for her to cool her thunder thighs in the summer heat. She works hard, after all.
Oh. Right. This thread is about Loy. So I should keep the thread going. OK. Here it goes. Loy is an ijjit who spends too much time thinking with his little head. Loy must feel like .... for steering God's own household onto the rocks.
One must admit, though, that Loy has better legs than Rozilla. At least he used to. From what I remember about them. Very firm thighs.
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Bolshevik
alimony or whatever. he's got two jobs
Gr@cie should be old enough soon.
he isn't someone to worry about imo
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now I see
Considering how hard it is for hardcore sexual addicts, predators, and swingers to change their habits, I doubt if he would be able to mainstream himself in regards to any religeous affiliation, with the exception of the Children of God cult or some sort of sex cult. Â Considering how hard it is for homosexuals to change their sexual proclivities, it would be hard for him to do likewise, sort of ironic in that respect considering his homophobic tirades. Â
He never seemed to be a tower of restraint in any aspect of his life before, he is certainly profoundly mentally and emotionally screwed up, although if he does come to his senses there is help for him through professional psychiatry.
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Mark Clarke
Maybe he could get a job in a dance company!
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Nottawayfer
LCM doesn't have the drive to start his own thing. Besides, he doesn't have what it takes to get people to follow him. All of the glory he experienced as the MOG was from confused people who thought he was the "right" MOG (not Geer) because VPW passed the mantle to LCM and set him up in the perfect spot. He never would have been able to achieve that on his own. After the big split between the LCM and Geerite followers, LCM made sure that every new grad of PFAL saw the video of VPW passing the mantle to him. I think that speaks VOLUMES about what he was trying to prove.
LCM boasted how he could be the CEO of any corporation. Yet he's held lowly jobs, not even a career. I had a friend in Toledo who saw him working at Home Depot. She had been to his efficiency apartment, and she said his hair looked wild like the scientist on "Back to the Future". She said he had no remorse over his actions, and he truly believes women wanted sex with him. She said he still believe they were consentual sexual affairs. As a minister, he made GRAVE mistakes and used his power in that position to dupe women in to believing it was OK. She seemed to get the impression that he viewed it as bitches in heat coming to him for it. I tried to get her to come to GSC and tell what she talked about, but she didnt' want to. The funny thing is when I was on Staff with her, I thought she was trying to catch his eye.
I believe LCM was responsible for really taking TWI over the CULT ledge with his lunacy, demands, and expectations. VPW wasn't as verbose about his lunacy, but he was even sicker than LCM. When some people here mention that VPW told LCM to loosen up sexually, that is where I believe LCM bought in to the ticket that sexual freedom within the confines of Christianity is OK. It seems there must have been a time that LCM must have questioned it. He obviously gave in to it because he wanted to believe it was OK too. Then he made a specialized doctrine out of it.
For those of you who weren't around when a guy who does cult research ran in to LCM in a social setting came to GSC, it is a a must read. Here's the link: Conversations with Craig Martindale
I'm sure LCM is a shell of a person. He had a lot of potential, but he used it in a really bad way. I believe he's experienceing the karma he deserves. It would be great if he woke up and apologized to all he hurt. I will be very surprised to ever see that happen.
[edited to correct what the guy who ran in to LCM does.]
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Sunesis
I agree with some posters, he was the king at one time, his throne was usurped, I can see why he would not want to start his own splinter group either. He was the fall guy, no innies or outies would follow him. It just won't happen.
I do feel that, when LCM was young, in college, he really did want to know God and loved God. He fell into the hands of a pervert. I think VP had an inherent, sick, predatory evil, inside him, and LCM didn't. VPW had to teach it to Craig, it was not natural to him, and I would think, after LCM's initial shock, since he was a gung-ho follower of VP (I really think there was some kind of father/hero worship issue with LCM), he probably seared his conscience to give it place and believe what VP taught the "initiated" ones in that area. I don't think it came quickly or easily for LCM. As it took years for LCM to get to the point where he is now, I would hope, after many years, it will maybe dawn on him what he did. If he has any true love for God and Christ left, I do think God in his mercy can show him. I think if LCM ever did get it, his repentence would be real. I guess I'm thinking, maybe God hasn't thrown him away, totally, he is still his child. VPW - I still do not believe was ever His child. That's just me. I have a feeling some of the people on the "top" he surrounded himself weren't either. It was about power for them. Wolves preying on an innocent flock. That's why, from knowing LCM and how he always wanted his heart to be right with God, I cannot rule his repentence out someday, and do not put him in the same league with VP.
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potato
I'm actually suspicious of the idea that lcm ever "loved" god. I suspect he was like my ex in that regard, always looking for someplace to fit in and impress people. the most important thing to my ex is that people admire him. that's why he loved twi. he got a lot of admiration for his level of "commitment" because he was more than willing to let others do his thinking for him. he started out narcissistic, and twi only made him worst. IMO, that's a more realistic view of lcm than hoping there's the redeemable spark of a former self that probably never existed.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Ha!...Good to see my "years old" thread revived...
I tend to agree with potato...Jim Doop told me once that Martindale was a grade A a** hole from day one...
He was a firey speaker but that was it...he was all talk...no real compassion or heart felt desire to help people...at least, not from my experiences with him. The fact that Wierwille chose him to be the prez speaks volumes...
...and as far as him shooting off his pie hole about how he coulda been the top dog of a fortune 500 company...that's VERY revealing...he acted like he was doing us a favor...I thought that a Christian minister was acknowledging his "calling". A true Christian minister is someone who humbly serves people...not an egotistical blowhard who acts like he's doing you a favor by subjecting you to his ranting and raving...good grief!
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skyrider
Yeah.......claiming that he could be some ceo for a fortune 500 company.
But.........the most grandiose claim that I ever heard from craiggers was in February 1997. When martinfail's "revelation" from God to have all field corps on twi's payroll and the numbers were dismal and pressure was mounting as finances dwindled in twi's coffers. So.......as martindale is, martindale does..........he escalates his confrontation assaults to the corps on a corps phone hook-up and bellows:
I could run every twig in the country from hq if I had to.
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Ham
he did the "second best".. sent out goons of the worst description to try to confront, and spiritually maim..
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