I also remember LCM saying that he had gone around and around in his mind with the gross/net thing and finally decided that net was more appropriate for reasons given by others here. (There was no particular scriptural basis for the decision.)
Since the government takes about 30-35% of my income, you can take the numbers I gave earlier and multiply by 1.5 to get what portion of my net income I contribute.
During the years that I "abundantly shared" (1975-1987), We were always told that 10% was the minimum and we were expected to give at LEAST 15%...of the gross. During that time I probably coughed up about 50 grand. It hurts like a toothache to even think about it.
I would much rather remember my last 6 months in twi when I sent them NOTHING... :D-->
When the BC got on my case...I told him that I was giving anonymously because God knew how much I was giving and that's all that mattered according to the bible...he got madder than hell and demanded that I put it on the "blue form"...Of course I had stopped giving them anything at all by this time and simply refused to do the "blue form" thing...this went on for a few weeks until I was told that if I didn't do the "blue form" thing, I would no longer be able to be a "twig coordinator"...I respnded by telling the BC that not only would I not use the "blue form" ever again, but that I refused to accept any ABS from anyone in my fellowship because I thought that twi was misusing the money...of course the .... hit the fan and that was that... ;)-->
Besides...I didn't need anybody spitting in my direction anyway.
quote: When the BC got on my case...I told him that I was giving anonymously because God knew how much I was giving and that's all that mattered according to the bible...he got madder than hell and demanded that I put it on the "blue form".
OMG, I did the same thing! Their argument was that I was not being a good steward because I couldn't deduct my ABS from my taxes. My response was that I claimed the full amount anyway. It was funny to watch them try to come up with an argument other than "we want to track you."
Ok, so I was being a pain on purpose. Sue me! I wasn't giving anything at that point either. So it was true that I claimed the whole amount. Because it was nothing!
I recall that when we were told to calculate our percentage based on net and not gross we were also told that we shouldn't reduce our total amount of giving.
For instance, if you were grossing $500 per week and were giving 13%, your check would be for $65.00.
If your net income from a $500 gross was say, $375, you would still give $65, but it would then be recalculated as 17 1/3%.
Of course I am not SURE it was the late 80s, I am not SURE about most things --> (but that is a whole nuther thread :)-->
It could have been as late as the wib 90 or 91 but I am not sure of the date. Do you still have the waydale cd? It is on the thread called "It is 6/? Do you know where your abs is?" That thread has a zillion hits, and I am SURE that we nailed it down with history ;)--> )
Just Thinking...My BC wasn't clever enough to think up the "bad steward tax thing"...I was told that I should do the blue form because the MOG said it was important!...No other reason! I backed the BC into a corner when I asked him what other things that are contrary to the bible does the MOG think are important? I walked away saying that his "MOG" was "off the word" and so was he if he followed him...The BC wasn't used to hearing that...usually he was the one quoting chapter and verse...
I didn't ever calculate... I never paid attention to ANY of the "mandates" TWI tried to foist upon us... I just gave whatever I wanted "cheerfully" to give... if they didn't like it, too bad...
I didn't bother to calculate anything as far as TWI ABS went. Like several of you have said, I gave what I could cheerfully give at the time. Besides, my wife was still doing her cheerful giving to the Roman Catholic church, so even if we did calculate some percentage, it would have been divided anyway.
These days, I give within my family first, close friends (including coworkers) next, Church would be next if I attended one, then to "Commercial" outlets (such as the Salvation Army, USO, Navy Relief, Easter Seals, FOP, etc, etc...) if no family members or close friends have a need of some sort.
Also, I only give from my abundance - money, goods, and/or services I have that I don't have a need, or a projected need, for AFTER taxes, bills, debts, and expenses. Rather than calculate a set percentage, I give according to the need at the time. :)-->
I gave 10-15% from my net. It varied with the pressure they put on me. They were strict about geting it too. In 2000 my FC strongly confronted me, because I didn't hand him a check with at least 10% of my paycheck BEFORE I DEPOSITED IT IN THE BANK!
He argued that to deposit my paycheck in the bank before writing the way the check was puting other things before God. He figured once I have access to my money any of it I spent before the next Fellowship meeting (when I'd have my next chance to abs) say I bought gas to get to twig- that would be putting gas before God.
We argued a lot. I never would give him a check from an empty account. He even wanted to know exactly how much money I made.
He said it was his responsibility to to report to his superiors and would be in trouble because I wouldn't prepay my tithe.
Same FC tried to sue me for telling him that I would not be coming back to his fellowship!
I gave 10-15% from my net. It varied with the pressure they put on me. They were strict about geting it too. In 2000 my FC strongly confronted me, because I didn't hand him a check with at least 10% of my paycheck BEFORE I DEPOSITED IT IN THE BANK!
He argued that to deposit my paycheck in the bank before writing the way the check was puting other things before God. He figured once I have access to my money any of it I spent before the next Fellowship meeting (when I'd have my next chance to abs) say I bought gas to get to twig- that would be putting gas before God.
We argued a lot. I never would give him a check from an empty account. He even wanted to know exactly how much money I made.
He said it was his responsibility to to report to his superiors and would be in trouble because I wouldn't prepay my tithe.
Same FC tried to sue me for telling him that I would not be coming back to his fellowship!
It's amazing to me to see HOW FAR out to left field some coordinators were. This guy must have been trying to out-MOG the MOG!
The big teachings in our area were laced with the mantra "as soon as[b/]". You were supposed to pay your ABS "as soon as" you got paid. If you paid any bills or did anything else with your money before giving it to TWI, then you weren't putting God first and you weren't giving of your "firstfruits".
GAWD, that was so drilled into our heads that some people would drive by the HFCs house to drop off their check if they couldn't be at fellowship to give. -->
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GeorgeStGeorge
I also remember LCM saying that he had gone around and around in his mind with the gross/net thing and finally decided that net was more appropriate for reasons given by others here. (There was no particular scriptural basis for the decision.)
Since the government takes about 30-35% of my income, you can take the numbers I gave earlier and multiply by 1.5 to get what portion of my net income I contribute.
George
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GrouchoMarxJr
During the years that I "abundantly shared" (1975-1987), We were always told that 10% was the minimum and we were expected to give at LEAST 15%...of the gross. During that time I probably coughed up about 50 grand. It hurts like a toothache to even think about it.
I would much rather remember my last 6 months in twi when I sent them NOTHING...
:D-->
When the BC got on my case...I told him that I was giving anonymously because God knew how much I was giving and that's all that mattered according to the bible...he got madder than hell and demanded that I put it on the "blue form"...Of course I had stopped giving them anything at all by this time and simply refused to do the "blue form" thing...this went on for a few weeks until I was told that if I didn't do the "blue form" thing, I would no longer be able to be a "twig coordinator"...I respnded by telling the BC that not only would I not use the "blue form" ever again, but that I refused to accept any ABS from anyone in my fellowship because I thought that twi was misusing the money...of course the .... hit the fan and that was that...
;)-->
Besides...I didn't need anybody spitting in my direction anyway.
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JustThinking
UH,
OMG, I did the same thing! Their argument was that I was not being a good steward because I couldn't deduct my ABS from my taxes. My response was that I claimed the full amount anyway. It was funny to watch them try to come up with an argument other than "we want to track you."
Ok, so I was being a pain on purpose. Sue me! I wasn't giving anything at that point either. So it was true that I claimed the whole amount. Because it was nothing!
JT
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Oakspear
I recall that when we were told to calculate our percentage based on net and not gross we were also told that we shouldn't reduce our total amount of giving.
For instance, if you were grossing $500 per week and were giving 13%, your check would be for $65.00.
If your net income from a $500 gross was say, $375, you would still give $65, but it would then be recalculated as 17 1/3%.
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Radar OReilly
Hope,
Of course I am not SURE it was the late 80s, I am not SURE about most things
--> (but that is a whole nuther thread 
:)-->
It could have been as late as the wib 90 or 91 but I am not sure of the date. Do you still have the waydale cd? It is on the thread called "It is 6/? Do you know where your abs is?" That thread has a zillion hits, and I am SURE that we nailed it down with history
;)--> )
Radar
xxoo.....hubby and kids too!
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GrouchoMarxJr
Just Thinking...My BC wasn't clever enough to think up the "bad steward tax thing"...I was told that I should do the blue form because the MOG said it was important!...No other reason! I backed the BC into a corner when I asked him what other things that are contrary to the bible does the MOG think are important? I walked away saying that his "MOG" was "off the word" and so was he if he followed him...The BC wasn't used to hearing that...usually he was the one quoting chapter and verse...
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Tom Strange
I didn't ever calculate... I never paid attention to ANY of the "mandates" TWI tried to foist upon us... I just gave whatever I wanted "cheerfully" to give... if they didn't like it, too bad...
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Belle
Musta been nice to have that freedom, Tom. They probably let you bring snow cones to twig, too, didn't they?
;)-->
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fortunateone
As the saying goes .....
Thanks for sharing.
Did anybody actually save those tax deduction letters from Howard Allen like I did?
Before the Net was the net ABS tax by TWI.
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Steve Swenton
I didn't bother to calculate anything as far as TWI ABS went. Like several of you have said, I gave what I could cheerfully give at the time. Besides, my wife was still doing her cheerful giving to the Roman Catholic church, so even if we did calculate some percentage, it would have been divided anyway.
These days, I give within my family first, close friends (including coworkers) next, Church would be next if I attended one, then to "Commercial" outlets (such as the Salvation Army, USO, Navy Relief, Easter Seals, FOP, etc, etc...) if no family members or close friends have a need of some sort.
Also, I only give from my abundance - money, goods, and/or services I have that I don't have a need, or a projected need, for AFTER taxes, bills, debts, and expenses. Rather than calculate a set percentage, I give according to the need at the time.
:)-->
Just a thought...
Steve.
¥
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red
I gave 10-15% from my net. It varied with the pressure they put on me. They were strict about geting it too. In 2000 my FC strongly confronted me, because I didn't hand him a check with at least 10% of my paycheck BEFORE I DEPOSITED IT IN THE BANK!
He argued that to deposit my paycheck in the bank before writing the way the check was puting other things before God. He figured once I have access to my money any of it I spent before the next Fellowship meeting (when I'd have my next chance to abs) say I bought gas to get to twig- that would be putting gas before God.
We argued a lot. I never would give him a check from an empty account. He even wanted to know exactly how much money I made.
He said it was his responsibility to to report to his superiors and would be in trouble because I wouldn't prepay my tithe.
Same FC tried to sue me for telling him that I would not be coming back to his fellowship!
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red
Since I stopped giving them my money; I've been "abundantly blessed" financially as well as in every other aspect of life.
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GeorgeStGeorge
It's amazing to me to see HOW FAR out to left field some coordinators were. This guy must have been trying to out-MOG the MOG!
By the way, Red ... Welcome to GreaseSpot!
George
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Belle
Red, I so remember those days!
-->
The big teachings in our area were laced with the mantra "as soon as[b/]". You were supposed to pay your ABS "as soon as" you got paid. If you paid any bills or did anything else with your money before giving it to TWI, then you weren't putting God first and you weren't giving of your "firstfruits".
GAWD, that was so drilled into our heads that some people would drive by the HFCs house to drop off their check if they couldn't be at fellowship to give.
-->
It was bad, folks, really bad.
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