Actually, it was pretty convoluted since insurance, 401K and pre-paid medical deductions among other things were taken out of the paycheck.
I took the gross pay and deducted the taxes and 401K amounts, then figured our 18% abundant sharing off of that.
After we started renting a house instead of an apt. I convinced my ex that we needed to go to 10% because we were giving out of our need. He was very upset about it, but realized it was what we had to do.
After the lawsuits came out and I lost all faith in TWI, I started giving 10% off the net and the more I learned the less I gave. Eventually I wasn't giving at all unless my ex asked me about it and I had to.
I always figured it (and still do) from my gross income. (OT believers had taxes, too!) Before I married, I gave about 13%, since then it's been 10.5%.
quote: i was told in no uncertain terms, it had to be from gross earnings, give to god before the government....
I remember docvic saying that many a time, but I didn't listen. Was married at the time, and we gave 10%, after taxes -- which wasn't a whole lot cause I was working, and she was in school.
We did another "no-no" too. We counted any corps sponsorship we gave as ABS as well. To us, it was giving to the *future* of twi, so we figured it counted. Got reamed on that one by the LC a time or two, but we didn't care and continued the practice anyway.
George, LCM said that they figured out it was off the net that we were supposed to give because of a verse that implies you give out of what you have control over and since the government takes their cut of your paycheck before you even get it, you dno't have control over that part of your income, so you give out of your net.
I can't remember the verse, but someone else might. I do remember it was a big deal to him and he felt very self-important when he taught it.
I heard Vee Pee say several times we should give out of the gross. "Why let the government get it first?"
So I would look at the gross and give 15 to 20% out of that.
I didn't make much money as it was and thus I was even poorer.
Oh but God was supposed to bless me. Hmmm must have been because I wasn't a "cheerful" enough giver. But when you're poor from giving so much it's hard to be "cheerful."
So not only were we giving out of our hides, we had a guilt trip laid on us if our ABS didn't bring us "blessings."
George, LCM said that they figured out it was off the net that we were supposed to give because of a verse that implies you give out of what you have control over and since the government takes their cut of your paycheck before you even get it, you dno't have control over that part of your income, so you give out of your net.
I can't remember the verse, but someone else might. I do remember it was a big deal to him and he felt very self-important when he taught it.
Belle -- that is a new one to me. I've never heard anything other than what I said above. I'm not doubting you for a minute here, but docvic always made sure twi got the biggest cut possible, and he always said that the gross of our earnings were what was to be figured from when abs was concerned. -->
I was told the same thing by Howard. You can't control what the government will take so you give from what is yours to control. Can't recall the exact year but it was either 95 or 96. And sorry Belle, can't recall the verse either.
The "doctrine" was changed from gross to net in the late 80s, the rationale being that the net was really what we earned because the govt took whatever they wanted right off the top before we ever had access to it.
For those of of us on staff....we didn't abs out of our salaries, because we were already paid to live on a "need" basis. Our abs was in the amount of hours that we worked OVER our 40 hours a week. So, when you hear stories of some of us working 50, 60, 70 hours a week....YEE HAH.....we were absing, what? 40& of our salaries? -->
In my last year, I was the poorest I had ever been, making just over $5000 for the entire year. I gave of my gross earnings, 10 to 15%, many times 15%. When I was in literal rags of clothing, I was sneered at by leadership even when I tried to make the used old clothing look good. My car was a junker and I was not allowed to drive it on grounds. The reason I made so little money was the demand on my time as apprentice Corps...for which TWI paid me nothing. If I didn't do these things, I was lower than a snake.
When I made the decision to revolt, stop giving them anything, including time and money, that was when my life took off.
Yup, like exie, I was told exactly the same. In no uncertain terms we were to give 10% of our gross, later changed to 15%.
We gave to TWI 10% of our gross. We figured that amount was our 'increase'. Also a portion of the vegetable garden.
What we gave then, we give now [just not to TWI]. 10% from our gross, including what we grow or raise. We figure it out before taxes [though in fact no money comes out of my paychecks for taxes anyway, we have been income-tax-exempt since 1983].
I think that 'forced' thrift does teach soemthing, and by holding to that 'lesson' it has taught us a lot, and it such has helped us to invest more and build my Net Worth more.
I have seen [as well as the fact that I personally have gone through the experience] servicemembers start out earning $800 / month, over the years we are promoted and we all get pay raises and they soon are earning an average of $5,000 / month. If your cost-of-living is scrapping at the low end, and still scrapping at the upper end of that scale; then you have no control over your cost-of-living.
If one guy can raise a family on $10k/year, and next door his neighbor is whining that he has problems trying to support a family on $80k/year; than maybe, just maybe something else is going on.
I learned from reading "The Millionaire Next Door" that gaining financal affluence in my life is not about controlling my income, but rather it is from controlling my cost-of-living. If you want to begin to control your income taxes, then take a few courses on tax-theory or tax-planning. Income taxes can be a lot, 28%, 35%, 45%; ouch. If anyone is concerned about spending money on other beleivers [in the way of a church], at a lower rate than they are spending money on their government [who spends billions of tax-payers money on totally stupid things]; then you really are whining over split milk, standing in the path of a freight train.
Radar... are you sure the gross to net change was the late 80's? I seem to recall it happening in the 90's.
As far as what we gave - we believed what the bible says about "every man as he purposes in his heart - so let him give". We gave whatever amount we felt was appropriate at the time. Sometimes it was more, sometimes less.
After the first law suit - we stopped abundantly sharing all together. Many others did the same. Funny, there wasn't too much of a fuss about it either - I guess the higher-ups knew that people were ....ed-off when they found out that their hard-earned money was used to support a sexual miscreant.
I gave alot of money in the 70's. Probably closer to 25% of gross. I was single, living in a cheap appartment, working a professional job, earning good money, and no other life besides that and TWI. Which still wasn't good enough for some of the leadership.
By the 80's I'd started to wise up and drift away.
I do not remember when it changed but "net", not "gross", was standard by the 90s at the latest.
How did I calculate it? Flat percentage every week. However, I did have a region coordinator (in a private conversation) estimate was less that 20% of his people gave 10% or more faithfully. This was in the late 90s.
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excathedra
i was told in no uncertain terms, it had to be from gross earnings, give to god before the government....
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houseisarockin
Still give from your net.
We gave enough we could pay cash for this house, buy another vehicle outright and go to this kick@foot eatery never shadowed the doorway of.
We gave in excess of 15%.
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Pirate1974
Whatever was in my wallet at each meeting.
Which usually wasn't very much. When I was in, there really wasn't any pressure to give any certain amount, but that was a long time ago.
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Belle
Actually, it was pretty convoluted since insurance, 401K and pre-paid medical deductions among other things were taken out of the paycheck.
I took the gross pay and deducted the taxes and 401K amounts, then figured our 18% abundant sharing off of that.
After we started renting a house instead of an apt. I convinced my ex that we needed to go to 10% because we were giving out of our need. He was very upset about it, but realized it was what we had to do.
After the lawsuits came out and I lost all faith in TWI, I started giving 10% off the net and the more I learned the less I gave. Eventually I wasn't giving at all unless my ex asked me about it and I had to.
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Ham
Kinda reminds me of the commercial where the pirates are coming to attack. "What's in YOUR wallet?"
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houseisarockin
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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GeorgeStGeorge
I always figured it (and still do) from my gross income. (OT believers had taxes, too!) Before I married, I gave about 13%, since then it's been 10.5%.
George
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dmiller
I remember docvic saying that many a time, but I didn't listen. Was married at the time, and we gave 10%, after taxes -- which wasn't a whole lot cause I was working, and she was in school.
We did another "no-no" too. We counted any corps sponsorship we gave as ABS as well. To us, it was giving to the *future* of twi, so we figured it counted. Got reamed on that one by the LC a time or two, but we didn't care and continued the practice anyway.
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Belle
George, LCM said that they figured out it was off the net that we were supposed to give because of a verse that implies you give out of what you have control over and since the government takes their cut of your paycheck before you even get it, you dno't have control over that part of your income, so you give out of your net.
I can't remember the verse, but someone else might. I do remember it was a big deal to him and he felt very self-important when he taught it.
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Ham
I'm kind of suprised that they didn't make you fill out something that looked like a 1040 long form.
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Ham
But I wasn't corpse. I bet what they filled out gave them a hand cramp for a week!
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outandabout
I heard Vee Pee say several times we should give out of the gross. "Why let the government get it first?"
So I would look at the gross and give 15 to 20% out of that.
I didn't make much money as it was and thus I was even poorer.
Oh but God was supposed to bless me. Hmmm must have been because I wasn't a "cheerful" enough giver. But when you're poor from giving so much it's hard to be "cheerful."
So not only were we giving out of our hides, we had a guilt trip laid on us if our ABS didn't bring us "blessings."
Had to be our fault...don't get me started.
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dmiller
Belle -- that is a new one to me. I've never heard anything other than what I said above. I'm not doubting you for a minute here, but docvic always made sure twi got the biggest cut possible, and he always said that the gross of our earnings were what was to be figured from when abs was concerned.
-->
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houseisarockin
I was told the same thing by Howard. You can't control what the government will take so you give from what is yours to control. Can't recall the exact year but it was either 95 or 96. And sorry Belle, can't recall the verse either.
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Shellon
I signed the check before I got to fellowship and just gave it to em blank.
Or just opened my purse and let em take it. They were gonna find out and take it anyway.
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Radar OReilly
The "doctrine" was changed from gross to net in the late 80s, the rationale being that the net was really what we earned because the govt took whatever they wanted right off the top before we ever had access to it.
For those of of us on staff....we didn't abs out of our salaries, because we were already paid to live on a "need" basis. Our abs was in the amount of hours that we worked OVER our 40 hours a week. So, when you hear stories of some of us working 50, 60, 70 hours a week....YEE HAH.....we were absing, what? 40& of our salaries?
-->
ror
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houseisarockin
I trust your memory better than mine on dates. Thanks Radar.
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Eagle
In my last year, I was the poorest I had ever been, making just over $5000 for the entire year. I gave of my gross earnings, 10 to 15%, many times 15%. When I was in literal rags of clothing, I was sneered at by leadership even when I tried to make the used old clothing look good. My car was a junker and I was not allowed to drive it on grounds. The reason I made so little money was the demand on my time as apprentice Corps...for which TWI paid me nothing. If I didn't do these things, I was lower than a snake.
When I made the decision to revolt, stop giving them anything, including time and money, that was when my life took off.
Yup, like exie, I was told exactly the same. In no uncertain terms we were to give 10% of our gross, later changed to 15%.
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Galen
We gave to TWI 10% of our gross. We figured that amount was our 'increase'. Also a portion of the vegetable garden.
What we gave then, we give now [just not to TWI]. 10% from our gross, including what we grow or raise. We figure it out before taxes [though in fact no money comes out of my paychecks for taxes anyway, we have been income-tax-exempt since 1983].
I think that 'forced' thrift does teach soemthing, and by holding to that 'lesson' it has taught us a lot, and it such has helped us to invest more and build my Net Worth more.
I have seen [as well as the fact that I personally have gone through the experience] servicemembers start out earning $800 / month, over the years we are promoted and we all get pay raises and they soon are earning an average of $5,000 / month. If your cost-of-living is scrapping at the low end, and still scrapping at the upper end of that scale; then you have no control over your cost-of-living.
If one guy can raise a family on $10k/year, and next door his neighbor is whining that he has problems trying to support a family on $80k/year; than maybe, just maybe something else is going on.
I learned from reading "The Millionaire Next Door" that gaining financal affluence in my life is not about controlling my income, but rather it is from controlling my cost-of-living. If you want to begin to control your income taxes, then take a few courses on tax-theory or tax-planning. Income taxes can be a lot, 28%, 35%, 45%; ouch. If anyone is concerned about spending money on other beleivers [in the way of a church], at a lower rate than they are spending money on their government [who spends billions of tax-payers money on totally stupid things]; then you really are whining over split milk, standing in the path of a freight train.
:-)
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Hope R.
Radar... are you sure the gross to net change was the late 80's? I seem to recall it happening in the 90's.
As far as what we gave - we believed what the bible says about "every man as he purposes in his heart - so let him give". We gave whatever amount we felt was appropriate at the time. Sometimes it was more, sometimes less.
After the first law suit - we stopped abundantly sharing all together. Many others did the same. Funny, there wasn't too much of a fuss about it either - I guess the higher-ups knew that people were ....ed-off when they found out that their hard-earned money was used to support a sexual miscreant.
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Oakspear
I remember it in the early to mid nineties, unless it changed more than once.
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Jim
I gave alot of money in the 70's. Probably closer to 25% of gross. I was single, living in a cheap appartment, working a professional job, earning good money, and no other life besides that and TWI. Which still wasn't good enough for some of the leadership.
By the 80's I'd started to wise up and drift away.
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herbiejuan
As always I considered what I was getting and how it applied to me and mine
obviously I overpaid
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JustThinking
I do not remember when it changed but "net", not "gross", was standard by the 90s at the latest.
How did I calculate it? Flat percentage every week. However, I did have a region coordinator (in a private conversation) estimate was less that 20% of his people gave 10% or more faithfully. This was in the late 90s.
JT
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