If there is pending litigation, LLP, I doubt see me can fully answer. I'll let her handle that. I'd like to address the "either/or" scenario you present. There are many other possibilities. Abusers, pedators & pedophiles don't operate in a clearly demarcated environment. They walk in a shadow world where a lack of clarity set the scene. Their victims are put in a scenario that provides 'disconnect' from the event, all done with diabolical cleverness. They are usually silenced by shame or fear or other factors.
Therefore it is normal & expected that the mechanism wasn't obvious. That's how predators work. But there's always somebody to come along and declare with indignation that 'I'd NEVER let that happen to MY child!" Implying, of course, that somebody other than the EVIL predator was at fault.
All of which exhibits a singular, even perhaps an obstinate, lack of understanding of the problem.
I don't think that is what LLP is trying to do. Having read LLP's posts on this subject, it is my understanding he/she knew Mark and liked him. It is a tough blow to process and accept when you find out something this awful about someone you know. If it had been someone I knew and trusted, I would be reeling.
It took me a long time just to accept what was said about VPW and I never even knew him. In fact, it took a certain poster here, seeing her anguish as her story slowly and painstakingly unfolded, to finally convince me.
Likewise, it took some time for me to accept that LCM had more than a "one time consensual affair". I think LLP is honestly and genuinely trying to put all of this together. It is not an easy thing to do.
quote:I did try to caution any parents that had their children at Mark's house - especially after we divorced and he was ALONE with kids - but the state leadership QUICKLY dismissed me and anything I had to say.
She tried to tell them. They dismissed her.
Compare that with the example I wrote about with a daycare center that immediately put safeguards into place to protect children just in case the story might be true, and you can see the problem I have with TWI.
Compound that with the other stories that have appeared on these pages of molestation and pure cluelessness and callousness towards children at the highest levels of TWI. A TWI man arrested and convicted of child molestation in Alaska and Ohio (Coolwaters and templelady's story). Mistreatment of Family Corps kids, and misapplication of the use of the rod of correction (other posters, including me).
Further compound that with TWI's teaching on receiving the revelation manifestations, which has been taught now for decades by the same leaders, and you see why I reject TWI.
I respect your position, LLP. I was once where you are now, a long time ago. I heard a few second-hand stories, and could think of possible explanations. It wasn't until I was actually in Corps training, and had leadership turn on me for no reason, that I began to see it for what it really was.
Like you, I had one foot firmly planted in the real world, and though I had great disappointment about leaving, I had no worries that I would become a "greasespot by midnight."
quote: ... I can’t see how anyone in any well-meaning organization could oppose the victim and support the accused if the evidence against the accused was that strong.
LLP, if what you're trying to say is those folks who packed the house in support of Mark acted out of ignorance, I tend to agree.
Doesn't make sense to me that TWI as a whole was very comfortable booting Martindale for sexual abuse, yet they support this guy wholeheartedly?
quote:... I can’t see how anyone in any well-meaning organization could oppose the victim and support the accused if the evidence against the accused was that strong.
then you and I belong(ed) to different way ministries
quote: LLP, if what you're trying to say is those folks who packed the house in support of Mark acted out of ignorance, I tend to agree.
Doesn't make sense to me that TWI as a whole was very comfortable booting Martindale for sexual abuse, yet they support this guy wholeheartedly?
OM, remember that martindale WAS supported and protected wholeheartedly for YEARS by MANY PEOPLS in the organization. The ONLY REASON he was ousted was because of LAWSUITS!!! If people hadn't taken a stand he would still be president of TWI and he would still be abusing women and Rosie, Donna and many, many others would still be covering his foot.
I appreciate your post, but, confess, I really don't understand your point. The either/or scenario I was trying to paint was:
Scenario 1) MN insisted from the onset of the charges that he was innocent, the charges totally false. In that situation, if leadrship believed him innocent, I can more easily justify their support of him. Most Republicans offered Richard Nixon their staunch report until the evidence against the former president had become so overwhelming that they finally could not in good conscience continue to offer their support.
2) In contrast, if the evidence against MN made it clear from the onset of the charges that he had committed this crime, and, in full knowledge of his guilt, TWI opposed the accuser and offered support to MN so that he could beat the charges, well, my mind cannot justify that in any case.
2a) Knowing that MN was guilty, but repentant, I could see offering him support in light of his sin, counselling that he should summon the strength to confess, face the legal ramifications, do the time, repent, repent, repent, and then, reform, and begin rebuilding his life. I could see this form of support. There would be, of course, no opposition to the victim's claim in such a scenario. Even convicted, cold-blooded murderers are entitled to this level of support.
I'm just thinking with my typing fingers in all of this, Evan. As Abigail has correctly surmised, I am struggling personally with all of this, and need to figure out, for my own peace of mind if I can, just what role TWI played in all of this.
I know MN relocated, but I don't see any evidence that TWI relocated him (plenty of posts alledging that TWI relocated him to keep him out of trouble, but no real evidence, so far). Coordinators and such move all the time. I assume that most are not on the run, and trust that none are being relocated by TWI to escape responsibility for sexual attrocities. Whether or not my trust has been misplaced is one of the issues I'm trying to figure out.
Thanks for your post. Sorry if my original message was not clear enough.
LLP, I really feel for you having to go through all this, but I'm glad if it's helping you see what we've been seeing.
Remember that the only reason Craig was booted and stopped of his atrocities is because there were lawsuits filed against him. He would still be raping and abusing women today and the organization would still be recruiting women and covering for him if they hadn't been forced to take some sort of action.
"She tried to tell them. They dismissed her. " I understand and comprehended this point that See Me made. My question (well one of them) is whether these opportunities MN had to be alone with children was part of some TWI sanctioned function. It seems not in keeping with his role (as I knew it) that he would have had numerous occasions to be alone with children.
This question, IMO, goes to the heart of whether TWI knew of his criminal behavior and either sanctioned it, or through negligence, failed to act appropriately in shutting down the criminal activity and protecting the children.
it bothers / hurts me that See Me would be dismissed if she was "only" (big quotes) telling them about his very own darling stepdaughter.... the DAUGHTER of HIS WIFE who is raising his wonderful son as her own....
why was the evidence enough for a judge but not the wayfer leaders ?
"Coordinators and such move all the time. I assume that most are not on the run, and trust that none are being relocated by TWI to escape responsibility for sexual attrocities"
Define coordinators. I left in 2000, so things may have changed some. I was with TWI for 10 years. During that time, the ONLY reason a corps. person moved completely out of an area was because TWI reassigned him/her. My general understanding was that corps. were reassigned periodically (though I never was able to find a pattern to how often an individual was relocated or how long they were allowed to stay in one area) simply to "keep things from getting stale".
My experience, however, was very different. In the 10 years I was with TWI, (all 10 years in the same city) the only time someone was assigned to a new location (i.e. sent away from here) was when they were "in trouble" for something.
We did have new people move here from time to time, even some corps. But the only ones who left were those in the "dog house".
I want to make sure that you have read See Me's post correctly. She is THE EX WIFE of M**K N. Mark was the step father of her daughter. I am not sure I am correct in this, but I believe that See me is a family corps grad. She married Mark when his son was 1 year old, and along with her young daughter had planned on melding together a family...blessed by God that would be a family forever.
Her daughter was alone with Mark not only during twi sanctioned times but also in private and family sanctioned times. Mark betrayed his vows to God, himself, his son, his wife and his step-daughter.
I knew him, I liked him, I grieved with him after the death of Suzie. I understand your position regarding that aspect.
This thread is about something that is REAL, AND TRUE and proved in a court of law. This thread is NOT about innuendo, gossip or supposition. These charges were proven in a court of law, and Mark in now serving time sentenced to him by the courts of the United States.
Regarding when corps leadership were moved, or relocated during placements and why. I spent more than my share of time in twi. A good many years.....I was on staff at hq, one of my responsibilities was as the corporate move coordinator...in other words, for years, I coordinated moving corps from placement to placement. MANY, MANY, MANY times, those placements were made with the sole purpose being to GET SOMEONE THE HELL OUT OF DODGE. I remember one specific case...i asked the trunk coordinator "WHO THE HELL LIKES THIS GUY?" " How many limbs does he have to ruin before you drop kick his foot?" This guy was on his third limb....he had wrecked all three. TRUE STORY.
Lots of things happened, sometimes the true facts were not the same as THE COMPANY PUBLISHED VERSION.
Right on Radar, and thank you See Me. As you know, my family supports you 100%.
Didn't they post on another thread that Mark plead guilty.
What are the people in his region thinking now about the ability of their ministers to discern.......the time of day? All credibility of those folks is completely gone. If they were wrong about this, (supporting Mark) what else are they wrong about?
Hello Lowlylollypoppy and others.... Sorry I did not respond earlier - I've been off the internet for a few days....
To answer some of your qustions - I think some posts clarified a bit but - I wanted to answer you.... Ok - about my comment:
“(YES, YES, YES - he is HIGHLY supported by the Branch and state leadership - they packed his house up when he was arrested and visited him in jail and encouraged him on the phone etc...) He is in the ministry to this day.â€
"As a believer, I find the above statement troubling. I appreciate that, in light of pending litigation, you may or may not be able to answer the questions it raises in my mind, but, to the extent you are able, could you more specifically characterize the nature of this support? "
What I mean is that I told them specifically what was happening WAY BEFORE AN ARREST WAS MADE and that Mark was telling LIES but - I was the "corrupt one off the Word " since I had left the ministry 6 months prior to the conversation with them. (This was with the STATE leadership by the way...) My 2 oldest were still "IN" the ministry and they were harrassed by the other "believer kids" and there was even a teacher in their school that threw mean remarks at my daughter while at a school event (Which I handled with the principal of the school!)
"I mean, was it that leadership believed statements being made by MN that he was innocent of the charges – and so they supported him against what they would have perceived to be an unjust attack? Or was the evidence more overwhelming – so that any TWI support might be construed as their attempt to simply condone known and proven child abuse? Would you say they were trying to offer a helping hand to a guilty but repentant sinner, or simply protecting him, evidence be damned, because he is part of the household? The first, in light of the ultimate conviction, might most generously be construed as misguided leadership, the second, well, I can’t see how anyone in any well-meaning organization could oppose the victim and support the accused if the evidence against the accused was that strong." Ummmmmmm..... not sure how long you have been in the ministry but - I was in from age 17 to age 35...... I was a leader and I am here to tell you - the ministry covers for A LOT. I know personally someone rapped by LCM who was told "That was such a long time ago - how can we help you get over it?" !!!!!!!!! Soooooooooooooooooo - I can persoanlly say - I am not surprised by the ministry's response. (Just my 2 cents worth on that one!)
I’d also be curious to know how MN came to be alone with your child (and others if there are more cases pending). Did the opportunity present itself as part of some TWI sanctioned function? In the years during which my family interacted with MN, I cannot recall any occasions when, as a result of some TWI function, I was required or encouraged to leave my children alone with him. In reading the press release, it appears that the abuse occurred over some period of time. Nothing in my experience would have allowed opportunity over some period of time as part of some regularly occurring TWI function.
Well, he was my husband at the time.... actually the abuse started when we were engaged.... I was a single mom running the southern part of NJ at the time...he was my Way Corps Fiance' - what is not to trust right? THEN when we got married - we were dropped from the WC for Mark's weaknesses (A whole other story!) and when we were in PA we took turns being a part of Ministry classes - one class - he'd go and I would babysit our children and vise versa.... it was durning the time I went to class that he took advantage of my daughter...... READY FOR THIS??? HE EVEN TOOK ADVANTAGE OF HER WHILE I WAS IN THE HOPSITAL RECOVERING FROM THE BIRTH OF OUR CHILD!My daughter, at a young age, thought I knew because we'd be eating breakfast together and Mark would say "I had great cuddle time last night..." and I, as a good mother thinking there was some great father/daughter bonding time, would respond " That is great!'" This lead her to believe that I knew and that it was OK - then she got a little oder and heard about a friend who had a dad that went to jail for the same behavior and she put an end to the whole thing by simply stating "I'm telling Mom" when he came up to her room and the abuse stopped. Sadly this was not until 4-5 years later.
So, there are some answeres for you to think on...... I have nothing to hide. What ever I mention is covered in public documents from court. That is why I am now able to comment on some. There is still an open case in PA - so, other things I cannot tell yet.
What I would like to conclude is that throughout our marriage counseling and separation - it was always ME who had the problems accordig to our leadership. It was me not submitting enough or not doing "something" Mark had a good answer for everything. The leadership COULD have at least apologized ot harassing my children or saying - "We were wrong for believing Mark" but they continue to COVER and HIDE and accuse me of being OFF the WORD!
I have never been more ON in my life! And even Mark's family (mainly his sister) has not once been on my daughter's side. (I know that they read this so, this is mainly to them) The grandfather has stopped being a part of the children's lives, the sister begged us not to press charges - accused me of being UNLOVING and sent me articles and pages of quotes on how I need to be forgiving.... I was right for doing what I did and if I had my way Mark would be in for LIFE... thank GOD for the Judge who saw through him and gave him what he could - life time parole and on Megan's Law for life ... When I get the court documents and article in the mail I'd be happy to show you all. It is simply SICK what Mark put my daughter through. He made her go through YEARS of abuse and then she had to relive it and prove she was telling the truth. Our family does not live the victum mentality - we have moved on and we are having a BLAST with life. Life as it should be - enjoying God's blessing and seeing miracles every day!
OK - this was probably way too long but - I've kept this quiet for over a year now - so, Way Ministry people - wake up - Just because this happened to my daughter does not mean this behavior is not covered up all over the place - I could write a 1000+ page book on all of my emails from people and what has happened to them! (Well, actually you can just spend time reading ALL of the posts from this site!)
(((((see me))) The horror that you went through is unimaginable, but to have to endure the ugliness of the ministry and his family as well, is apalling. They should have been the FIRST at your side, and instead, they covered for the evil....this is not the first reported child molester that twi knew about and attempted to intimidate and hush up the parents of the victims, In one case at least, they succeded, and the perpetrator was sent to another state in a leadership capacity to destroy other young lives and families.
Had you and your daughter not been strong, Mark would have been free to perpetrate this evil yet again.....for no telling how long
Thank God for your determination and strength, there is no telling how many vulnerable young lives have been protected, had you and your daughter not had the guts to see this through...Thankyou.
You and your children have shown such strength, moral fiber, and character, you have my respct.
seeme-----wow, you are a brave soul, along with your family. Glad to hear you all are not victims, but are strong, and i hope life has nothing but the best for you all.
See Me, I am so thankful that you & your children have been able to move on with life and 'having a blast'. That thrills my soul.
I watch 'America's Most Wanted' every chance I get, and I love to see the 'bad guys' get caught, and the victims' families see justice. Thanks for being strong & being there for your children. It took much courage and backbone.
well... "no minimum term"... and if he gets "double time" for good behavior, etc he can be eligible for parole after half his sentence I think... so... not fair...
but if they put him in with the "general population" even if he hides behind the Bible, he'll pay for his sins...
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
10
8
8
3
Popular Days
Jan 5
18
Jan 6
14
Jan 4
7
Apr 4
6
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 10 posts
see me 8 posts
Belle 8 posts
Shellon 3 posts
Popular Days
Jan 5 2005
18 posts
Jan 6 2005
14 posts
Jan 4 2005
7 posts
Apr 4 2006
6 posts
TheEvan
If there is pending litigation, LLP, I doubt see me can fully answer. I'll let her handle that. I'd like to address the "either/or" scenario you present. There are many other possibilities. Abusers, pedators & pedophiles don't operate in a clearly demarcated environment. They walk in a shadow world where a lack of clarity set the scene. Their victims are put in a scenario that provides 'disconnect' from the event, all done with diabolical cleverness. They are usually silenced by shame or fear or other factors.
Therefore it is normal & expected that the mechanism wasn't obvious. That's how predators work. But there's always somebody to come along and declare with indignation that 'I'd NEVER let that happen to MY child!" Implying, of course, that somebody other than the EVIL predator was at fault.
All of which exhibits a singular, even perhaps an obstinate, lack of understanding of the problem.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
Evan,
I don't think that is what LLP is trying to do. Having read LLP's posts on this subject, it is my understanding he/she knew Mark and liked him. It is a tough blow to process and accept when you find out something this awful about someone you know. If it had been someone I knew and trusted, I would be reeling.
It took me a long time just to accept what was said about VPW and I never even knew him. In fact, it took a certain poster here, seeing her anguish as her story slowly and painstakingly unfolded, to finally convince me.
Likewise, it took some time for me to accept that LCM had more than a "one time consensual affair". I think LLP is honestly and genuinely trying to put all of this together. It is not an easy thing to do.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
shazdancer
Dear LLP,
From see me's original post...
She tried to tell them. They dismissed her.Compare that with the example I wrote about with a daycare center that immediately put safeguards into place to protect children just in case the story might be true, and you can see the problem I have with TWI.
Compound that with the other stories that have appeared on these pages of molestation and pure cluelessness and callousness towards children at the highest levels of TWI. A TWI man arrested and convicted of child molestation in Alaska and Ohio (Coolwaters and templelady's story). Mistreatment of Family Corps kids, and misapplication of the use of the rod of correction (other posters, including me).
Further compound that with TWI's teaching on receiving the revelation manifestations, which has been taught now for decades by the same leaders, and you see why I reject TWI.
I respect your position, LLP. I was once where you are now, a long time ago. I heard a few second-hand stories, and could think of possible explanations. It wasn't until I was actually in Corps training, and had leadership turn on me for no reason, that I began to see it for what it really was.
Like you, I had one foot firmly planted in the real world, and though I had great disappointment about leaving, I had no worries that I would become a "greasespot by midnight."
You have my best wishes.
Shaz
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Quote from LLP:
LLP, if what you're trying to say is those folks who packed the house in support of Mark acted out of ignorance, I tend to agree.Doesn't make sense to me that TWI as a whole was very comfortable booting Martindale for sexual abuse, yet they support this guy wholeheartedly?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
well-meaning ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
OM, remember that martindale WAS supported and protected wholeheartedly for YEARS by MANY PEOPLS in the organization. The ONLY REASON he was ousted was because of LAWSUITS!!! If people hadn't taken a stand he would still be president of TWI and he would still be abusing women and Rosie, Donna and many, many others would still be covering his foot.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LowlyLollyPoppy
Evan:
I appreciate your post, but, confess, I really don't understand your point. The either/or scenario I was trying to paint was:
Scenario 1) MN insisted from the onset of the charges that he was innocent, the charges totally false. In that situation, if leadrship believed him innocent, I can more easily justify their support of him. Most Republicans offered Richard Nixon their staunch report until the evidence against the former president had become so overwhelming that they finally could not in good conscience continue to offer their support.
2) In contrast, if the evidence against MN made it clear from the onset of the charges that he had committed this crime, and, in full knowledge of his guilt, TWI opposed the accuser and offered support to MN so that he could beat the charges, well, my mind cannot justify that in any case.
2a) Knowing that MN was guilty, but repentant, I could see offering him support in light of his sin, counselling that he should summon the strength to confess, face the legal ramifications, do the time, repent, repent, repent, and then, reform, and begin rebuilding his life. I could see this form of support. There would be, of course, no opposition to the victim's claim in such a scenario. Even convicted, cold-blooded murderers are entitled to this level of support.
I'm just thinking with my typing fingers in all of this, Evan. As Abigail has correctly surmised, I am struggling personally with all of this, and need to figure out, for my own peace of mind if I can, just what role TWI played in all of this.
I know MN relocated, but I don't see any evidence that TWI relocated him (plenty of posts alledging that TWI relocated him to keep him out of trouble, but no real evidence, so far). Coordinators and such move all the time. I assume that most are not on the run, and trust that none are being relocated by TWI to escape responsibility for sexual attrocities. Whether or not my trust has been misplaced is one of the issues I'm trying to figure out.
Thanks for your post. Sorry if my original message was not clear enough.
Respectfully,
LLP
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
LLP, I really feel for you having to go through all this, but I'm glad if it's helping you see what we've been seeing.
Remember that the only reason Craig was booted and stopped of his atrocities is because there were lawsuits filed against him. He would still be raping and abusing women today and the organization would still be recruiting women and covering for him if they hadn't been forced to take some sort of action.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LowlyLollyPoppy
Shaz:
"She tried to tell them. They dismissed her. " I understand and comprehended this point that See Me made. My question (well one of them) is whether these opportunities MN had to be alone with children was part of some TWI sanctioned function. It seems not in keeping with his role (as I knew it) that he would have had numerous occasions to be alone with children.
This question, IMO, goes to the heart of whether TWI knew of his criminal behavior and either sanctioned it, or through negligence, failed to act appropriately in shutting down the criminal activity and protecting the children.
Thanks for your post.
Respectfully,
LLP
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
LLP, when did you get involved ?
if you don't want to answer, that's fine
thanks
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
it bothers / hurts me that See Me would be dismissed if she was "only" (big quotes) telling them about his very own darling stepdaughter.... the DAUGHTER of HIS WIFE who is raising his wonderful son as her own....
why was the evidence enough for a judge but not the wayfer leaders ?
this is how i'm understanding things
what am i missing or misunderstanding here ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
"Coordinators and such move all the time. I assume that most are not on the run, and trust that none are being relocated by TWI to escape responsibility for sexual attrocities"
Define coordinators. I left in 2000, so things may have changed some. I was with TWI for 10 years. During that time, the ONLY reason a corps. person moved completely out of an area was because TWI reassigned him/her. My general understanding was that corps. were reassigned periodically (though I never was able to find a pattern to how often an individual was relocated or how long they were allowed to stay in one area) simply to "keep things from getting stale".
My experience, however, was very different. In the 10 years I was with TWI, (all 10 years in the same city) the only time someone was assigned to a new location (i.e. sent away from here) was when they were "in trouble" for something.
We did have new people move here from time to time, even some corps. But the only ones who left were those in the "dog house".
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Radar OReilly
LLP,
I want to make sure that you have read See Me's post correctly. She is THE EX WIFE of M**K N. Mark was the step father of her daughter. I am not sure I am correct in this, but I believe that See me is a family corps grad. She married Mark when his son was 1 year old, and along with her young daughter had planned on melding together a family...blessed by God that would be a family forever.
Her daughter was alone with Mark not only during twi sanctioned times but also in private and family sanctioned times. Mark betrayed his vows to God, himself, his son, his wife and his step-daughter.
I knew him, I liked him, I grieved with him after the death of Suzie. I understand your position regarding that aspect.
This thread is about something that is REAL, AND TRUE and proved in a court of law. This thread is NOT about innuendo, gossip or supposition. These charges were proven in a court of law, and Mark in now serving time sentenced to him by the courts of the United States.
Regarding when corps leadership were moved, or relocated during placements and why. I spent more than my share of time in twi. A good many years.....I was on staff at hq, one of my responsibilities was as the corporate move coordinator...in other words, for years, I coordinated moving corps from placement to placement. MANY, MANY, MANY times, those placements were made with the sole purpose being to GET SOMEONE THE HELL OUT OF DODGE. I remember one specific case...i asked the trunk coordinator "WHO THE HELL LIKES THIS GUY?" " How many limbs does he have to ruin before you drop kick his foot?" This guy was on his third limb....he had wrecked all three. TRUE STORY.
Lots of things happened, sometimes the true facts were not the same as THE COMPANY PUBLISHED VERSION.
ror
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tumbleweed Kid
Right on Radar, and thank you See Me. As you know, my family supports you 100%.
Didn't they post on another thread that Mark plead guilty.
What are the people in his region thinking now about the ability of their ministers to discern.......the time of day? All credibility of those folks is completely gone. If they were wrong about this, (supporting Mark) what else are they wrong about?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
gladtobeout
See Me
Thank you so much for posting and clarifying the situation. Thanks to your daughter for her bravery. I will pray for both of your hearts to be healed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
see me
Hello Lowlylollypoppy and others.... Sorry I did not respond earlier - I've been off the internet for a few days....
To answer some of your qustions - I think some posts clarified a bit but - I wanted to answer you.... Ok - about my comment:
“(YES, YES, YES - he is HIGHLY supported by the Branch and state leadership - they packed his house up when he was arrested and visited him in jail and encouraged him on the phone etc...) He is in the ministry to this day.â€
"As a believer, I find the above statement troubling. I appreciate that, in light of pending litigation, you may or may not be able to answer the questions it raises in my mind, but, to the extent you are able, could you more specifically characterize the nature of this support? "
What I mean is that I told them specifically what was happening WAY BEFORE AN ARREST WAS MADE and that Mark was telling LIES but - I was the "corrupt one off the Word " since I had left the ministry 6 months prior to the conversation with them. (This was with the STATE leadership by the way...) My 2 oldest were still "IN" the ministry and they were harrassed by the other "believer kids" and there was even a teacher in their school that threw mean remarks at my daughter while at a school event (Which I handled with the principal of the school!)
"I mean, was it that leadership believed statements being made by MN that he was innocent of the charges – and so they supported him against what they would have perceived to be an unjust attack? Or was the evidence more overwhelming – so that any TWI support might be construed as their attempt to simply condone known and proven child abuse? Would you say they were trying to offer a helping hand to a guilty but repentant sinner, or simply protecting him, evidence be damned, because he is part of the household? The first, in light of the ultimate conviction, might most generously be construed as misguided leadership, the second, well, I can’t see how anyone in any well-meaning organization could oppose the victim and support the accused if the evidence against the accused was that strong." Ummmmmmm..... not sure how long you have been in the ministry but - I was in from age 17 to age 35...... I was a leader and I am here to tell you - the ministry covers for A LOT. I know personally someone rapped by LCM who was told "That was such a long time ago - how can we help you get over it?" !!!!!!!!! Soooooooooooooooooo - I can persoanlly say - I am not surprised by the ministry's response. (Just my 2 cents worth on that one!)
I’d also be curious to know how MN came to be alone with your child (and others if there are more cases pending). Did the opportunity present itself as part of some TWI sanctioned function? In the years during which my family interacted with MN, I cannot recall any occasions when, as a result of some TWI function, I was required or encouraged to leave my children alone with him. In reading the press release, it appears that the abuse occurred over some period of time. Nothing in my experience would have allowed opportunity over some period of time as part of some regularly occurring TWI function.
Well, he was my husband at the time.... actually the abuse started when we were engaged.... I was a single mom running the southern part of NJ at the time...he was my Way Corps Fiance' - what is not to trust right? THEN when we got married - we were dropped from the WC for Mark's weaknesses (A whole other story!) and when we were in PA we took turns being a part of Ministry classes - one class - he'd go and I would babysit our children and vise versa.... it was durning the time I went to class that he took advantage of my daughter...... READY FOR THIS??? HE EVEN TOOK ADVANTAGE OF HER WHILE I WAS IN THE HOPSITAL RECOVERING FROM THE BIRTH OF OUR CHILD! My daughter, at a young age, thought I knew because we'd be eating breakfast together and Mark would say "I had great cuddle time last night..." and I, as a good mother thinking there was some great father/daughter bonding time, would respond " That is great!'" This lead her to believe that I knew and that it was OK - then she got a little oder and heard about a friend who had a dad that went to jail for the same behavior and she put an end to the whole thing by simply stating "I'm telling Mom" when he came up to her room and the abuse stopped. Sadly this was not until 4-5 years later.
So, there are some answeres for you to think on...... I have nothing to hide. What ever I mention is covered in public documents from court. That is why I am now able to comment on some. There is still an open case in PA - so, other things I cannot tell yet.
What I would like to conclude is that throughout our marriage counseling and separation - it was always ME who had the problems accordig to our leadership. It was me not submitting enough or not doing "something" Mark had a good answer for everything. The leadership COULD have at least apologized ot harassing my children or saying - "We were wrong for believing Mark" but they continue to COVER and HIDE and accuse me of being OFF the WORD!
I have never been more ON in my life! And even Mark's family (mainly his sister) has not once been on my daughter's side. (I know that they read this so, this is mainly to them) The grandfather has stopped being a part of the children's lives, the sister begged us not to press charges - accused me of being UNLOVING and sent me articles and pages of quotes on how I need to be forgiving.... I was right for doing what I did and if I had my way Mark would be in for LIFE... thank GOD for the Judge who saw through him and gave him what he could - life time parole and on Megan's Law for life ... When I get the court documents and article in the mail I'd be happy to show you all. It is simply SICK what Mark put my daughter through. He made her go through YEARS of abuse and then she had to relive it and prove she was telling the truth. Our family does not live the victum mentality - we have moved on and we are having a BLAST with life. Life as it should be - enjoying God's blessing and seeing miracles every day!
OK - this was probably way too long but - I've kept this quiet for over a year now - so, Way Ministry people - wake up - Just because this happened to my daughter does not mean this behavior is not covered up all over the place - I could write a 1000+ page book on all of my emails from people and what has happened to them! (Well, actually you can just spend time reading ALL of the posts from this site!)
Love you all!
:D-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
You are my hero! Thank God for you and your daughter!
WG
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
(((((see me))) The horror that you went through is unimaginable, but to have to endure the ugliness of the ministry and his family as well, is apalling. They should have been the FIRST at your side, and instead, they covered for the evil....this is not the first reported child molester that twi knew about and attempted to intimidate and hush up the parents of the victims, In one case at least, they succeded, and the perpetrator was sent to another state in a leadership capacity to destroy other young lives and families.
Had you and your daughter not been strong, Mark would have been free to perpetrate this evil yet again.....for no telling how long
Thank God for your determination and strength, there is no telling how many vulnerable young lives have been protected, had you and your daughter not had the guts to see this through...Thankyou.
You and your children have shown such strength, moral fiber, and character, you have my respct.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
see me, can't find the words to express myself yet after your last post
(((((((((( many hugs see me )))))))))) until i find my voice
love,ex
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
see me, thank you so much! I'm speechless and in awe of your strength and your daughters. I wish there was something I could do to help.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Thelema
seeme-----wow, you are a brave soul, along with your family. Glad to hear you all are not victims, but are strong, and i hope life has nothing but the best for you all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
act2
See Me, I am so thankful that you & your children have been able to move on with life and 'having a blast'. That thrills my soul.
I watch 'America's Most Wanted' every chance I get, and I love to see the 'bad guys' get caught, and the victims' families see justice. Thanks for being strong & being there for your children. It took much courage and backbone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
he can get out in a little over a year ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
well... "no minimum term"... and if he gets "double time" for good behavior, etc he can be eligible for parole after half his sentence I think... so... not fair...
but if they put him in with the "general population" even if he hides behind the Bible, he'll pay for his sins...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.