jonny, I think sometimes I understand where your coming from. But, to tell someone you will be praying for their deliverance just aint a good way of apologizing. I think in some ways we all need deliverance in one way or another, huh? Who is to say one needs it more than the other?
Even though you changed your post some of us did get a look at it. Calling us bitches and saying what you did which I won't bring up, wasn't very nice either. I could get mean and nasty but I don't think that would do either. I could say that I would pray for your deliverance but that isn't the way either.
I think with this subject your just not understanding what women went through. You may think that you do but what you posted in the disappeared post it shows that you don't.
I really don't think you mean to be 'mean spirited' but it does come off to some people as that.
Just an apology would have sufficed without telling someone they need something in their life. Could you have just said I'm sorry without anything else?
I don't want to fight with you. There are a lot of things we disagree with and would like to disagree as adults not trying to do the one up sort of thing. It would be the PC sort of way, huh? ;)-->
quote: Maybe you should stop coming here. Maybe what you need is to try and forget about the past instead of getting all stirred up when you come here.. No, really I mean this.
And maybe what you need to do is to engage your brain before you open your mouth.
You have a habit of saying hurtful things, then apologizing after being taken to task for them.
Dmiller said it well, and there's another metaphor that applies. It says something about not being unable to "unring" a bell.
Wouldn't it be better to think how you might be affecting people before you post, rather than just seeing what you can get away with and apologizing after you see the effect?
I don't think you're oblivious to the effect your words will have on people before you post them. I think you know damn wall the effect they'll have and say them anyway because, after all, you can just apologize. At least that's the pattern as it looks to me to be playing out.
Picture GreaseSpot as someone else's home for a moment. You might feel free let out a loud belch in your own home, but maybe you should think twice before doing so in the discussion "home" we all share.
And your "apology" to excathedra was condescending as all hell.
The real quest of a conspiracy theory is to find out whodunnit - or whoisdoinit. Conspiracy theories are made to appear absurd by positing as the original doer one who is in an underling position whose doing, if original, could only appear magical by virtue of his lack of ability; thereby, leading all to pooh pooh the conspiracy. All would more readily believe that all the amazing coincidences were accidental (highly implausible) than to believe that a bozo such as Bush pulled off such an amazing design on purpose (even more implausible).
We have to look higher up in the food chain for the originator not only to fit in the conspiracy theory, but to lend it even more credence.
Johnny, you said, "the real emphasis was on the Bush agenda of ruling the world with giant evil corporations!"
Bush couldn't rule his own corporations, nevermind "giant evil" ones, so by virtue of association of Bush'es stupidity with such a daunting role of ruler of the world conspiracy, the conspiracy theory is made to look foolish.
But again, the pivotal point - when it comes to credence or no credence in conspiracy theory, is in figuring whodonit. Bush, obviously, can't do jack; therefore, any consideration that he would rule anything world-wide is absurd. But Bush never, as you say, ruled "the world with giant evil corporations!" On the contrary, anyone REALLY familiar with basic conspiracy theory 101 would realize that rather than Bush ruling "the world with giant evil corporations," giant evil corporations rule the world with Bush - and other stooges. Admittedly, Bush has moved up to the dubiously laudible position of MAJOR stooge, being president of the USA, but no further. Bush was bought and sold before he ever took office via the sham two party system designed by the puppet masters to make Americans think they have choice and exercise control - what a joke!
"I was stunned," you say, as you "...sat there, and [said] the only thing that I heard was the cry of a Mocking Bird just outside my window."
How ironic! The only song that the Mocking Bird sings is the last one sung in the neighborhood. So you can't know the originator of the song sung. Bush'es only deed is to sing the song most recently sung in the 'hood by the ruler of the roost - every roost has one - a top cat, dog, ruler, don'tchaknow - every cat, bird, chicken, ruler of the roost, knows that, why don't you - programmed by the roost ruler?
"Mocking Bird" indeed!
The difference between the merely tragic and true tragedy lies in the inevidetablity of the tragic result - its inevitability being brought to pass by a classic flaw in the character of the human.
It is truly tragic that there are natural resources galore to satisfy man's need, yet his greed prevents the provision of paradise from success.
It is supremely ironic that the downfall of man has been primordially prescribed and prescripted, posted for all to see before and after Shakespeare's tragedies, yet man can do nothing to prevent it from coming to pass.
No top cat ever got to the top except by beating out all the other cats.
How can anyone think that the smartest and richest players, those most in control of the design and utilization of the systems of the game, do not conspire to monopolize the field of play?
Wouldn't you?
Only mnakes sense - & they didn't get where they are by being stupid or nice.
Nobody would put Bush in charge of the barn, nevermind the ranch (although a patriotic public would vote for him thinking he will police the place). Bush does what he is told by "Bush'es Brain." The trick is to figure out who Bush'es Brain works for. I'm betting it is the same people that Wilson's alter ego worked for - follow the money associations and inclinations.
Same tired old conspiracy theory? Yeah, really tired! But never more apparent.
I do believe in conspiracy theories, at least a lot of them...but twi conspiracy not so sure. A lot of greed not just for money but for power that is for sure but I think it started with one man that wanted it all.
As for other conspiracies, I do tend to believe in some of the Kennedy theroies. Too many people would have wanted him dead. Lots of things going on in our country during that time. It just seems plausible to me.
"A lot of greed not just for money but for power that is for sure."
VP taught that the love of money is really the love of power. Nobody would love actual money were it not for the power (over others) that money brings. That's what people (some people: "It is harder for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven...")grow to love.
"but I think it started with one man that wanted it all."
Maybe. I don't know. It is hard to say where it STARTED. I tend to think that VP just didn't trust Jesus Christ to be the head, so he didn't trust people to follow Jesus Christ's lead, so VP HAD to see to it that it was done correctly by centralizing all decisions in himself. I think that after that, the power plays all over the "ministry" and the details of establishing that power (depowering other believers) had to play out in the leavening of the whole lump that became TWI.
I don't think it was all about money either. I'm thinking more along the lines of being the idol as far as people worshipping him. Total obedience. His way the total truth. And we all know (I hope anyways), that sexual assaults on young women is not about sex but about power.
I think vpw rather fancied hitler and wanted that kind of idealation. That is why I believe there was no conspiracy at that time.
Now that things have changed in twi, there may be some conspiracies.
it's always embarrassing and difficult to express yourself when you know you're going to look too emotional or whatever
but i'm tired of apologizing and weighing my words when it comes to my devastating experiences
quote:I learned of this from my father, TOWEOTACREM, just before he died. He laughed and laughed just as his lights went out, about how much fun he and old Vic had as they screwed so many young and beautiful women.
i just can't get into this being funny. read it; see how it would make you feel
and hairy, i know he's your bro and he always has good intentions.... but what can i say ?
and jonny, i'm not angry all the time, at all. your perception, advice, etc., is not only wrong, it's insulting to me
you probably see me angry more than anyone because you usually .... me off royally
Jonny, I don't "hate" you. I don't even know you, apart from your words in these forums. I often disagree with you, that's true, but there are lots of GSers I like who I disagree with on a regular basis.
It's true that I don't like it when you charge around like a bull in a china shop tossing out words that are going to hurt people.
You think my post to you was vicious? Blunt, yes; vicious, hardly.
The apology is, IMO, a moot point, because the fact remains that you can't unring a bell. So my encouragement to you remains the same as before--to try thinking of others before you post. You can't "unhurt" someone's feelings just by saying you're sorry. You can, however, avoid hurting people again by taking my advice. It's free!
Whether you want to consider what I've said or just react and make yourself some kind of victim is really up to you. But I didn't post what I did out of hate or viciousness.
quote:I don't think it was all about money either.
I wonder about that though. I often wonder if the reason VPs brother emtpied his bank account and give it to twi for for reasons other than the love in his heart. He could, afterall, get a tax right-off, and still use the money since he was a member of the bot. It clearly looked like a benefit to both: tax-free money and money to make VP happy. Anyway, it's just a thought.
I had a well-informed person complain to me about warning them of the consequences of how they handled monetary things.
I have worded posts in a way that was very offensive to others without realizing it. I have had my foot chewed by those who helped me realize it. My realization of that bout myself was very a very hard pillow to swallow.
I guess I'm just trying to say that sometimes people aren't malicious in their offensiveness. But it takes an understanding heart to show them the how their words affect people.
Yes, you have apologized several times, but its in the way you apologized. You can't just snip out all your apologies and look like that you just apologized several times. There was more in there than that. I think we have shared that with you many times.
I don't think anyone actually hates you, that is a very strong word. I don't like how you treat some people around here. There have been a lot of people hurt through your words and I don't think you really realize that.
Maybe, if you tried what linda said and read your words before posting and think about how others would take it (maybe, if you care) it might not be so explosive. But if your having a hard time understanding why people are getting hurt then I guess that wouldn't work for you either. I don't know how to help you with this one.
I think the biggest problem is that you really don't have a clue what some others think and feel. If you did you would not have posted what you did that mysteriously disappeared. Its great you got rid of it but the words that were there told me that there was no comprehension or empathy.
Linda was correct when she said that you come in like a bull charging and then try to end up looking like a victim. I've seen it time and time again. No one wants to pick on you, believe me.
Its very unlikely that there is such secret prectise at the top of the pyramid, if there was, it would be posted all over this board by now with lurid detail.
Someone high up would leave the church, then make themself an apostate celebrity by blowing the whistle on the secret magickal practises of the TWI elite.
Wow he disappeared into thin air, just like people at TWI used to.
Well known leaders and other people would be as if they never had existed or fallen off the map--is that the mark of some secret society?
The numerology business that they used to define or I should say twist the meaning of words was always very strange...(this word is used 49 times, which is 7 times 7 which connotes in its meaning..blah blah blah...)
As were the levels of 'secret knowledge' that would never be revealed until you attained that level.
ie..wait until you take the class-then you'll get your answers.
WOW--you gotta go to know.
Same thing with the Advanced class--the material was always guarded until you paid the cash and sat through it
It was a slow indoctrination over a period of time much like a secret society, by the time they reached 'the top' many were apparently so seered that anything was permissible and any vestiges of christianity except the veneer had long disappeared...
Refiner, "Its very unlikely that there is such secret prectise at the top of the pyramid..."
I'm wondering what secret practice is "such" secret practice. Are we still addressing Mister P-Mosh's original post that there was a secret pagan organization? And the similarity that he draws to the Freemasons being a cover for the illuminati?
I think even at the top of the illuminati, there are few, if any, who with all consciousness of wrong doing and iniquity being carried out make themselves out to be the good guys so they can secretly be the bad guys. Even at the top, they don't consider themselves to be bad, but illuminated.
I think the same holds true for TWI. I don't think there has ever been anyone near or at the top who thought they were pagans the whole time deliberately fooling the underlings into thinking that they were Christians.
The different levels of "secret knowledge" that mstar alluded to we all have experienced. The question of whether these levels constitute conspiracy hinges on whether two or more persons in these levels agreed to commit an otherwise criminal or unlawful act. Secret levels in themselves do not make a conspiracy. The "unfruitful works of darkness" which are done in secret are not the only secret things. Other perfectly good things are, and ought to be, secret.
I haven't kept up with the details of the various legal proceedings against TWI, but, if memory serves, conspiracy was among the charges. People bringing others to the MOG for dirty deeds constitutes conspiracy legally.
Mr. P-Mosh offered us the idea that "any good conspiracy theory, this is just taking a few facts and combining them in such a way to guess at something unproveable." I suppose the supposed unproveability of a "good" conspiracy theory increases the tease value of the "good" conspiracy theory, but conspiracies can and are proven all the time.
Here are some considerations that I've found:
Unlike crimes committed by individuals acting alone, it is not necessary for guilt that the act be fully consummated. Many acts that would not be criminal if accomplished by an individual alone may nevertheless be the object of a conspiracy. Not only that, but a statement of a conspirator in furtherance of the conspiracy is admissible against all conspirators - uh, oh, even if the statement includes damaging references to another conspirator, and often even if it violates the rules against hearsay evidence. The conspiracy can be proved by circumstantial evidence. Any conspirator is guilty of any substantive crime committed by any other conspirator in furtherance of the enterprise. Double uh, oh.
So, I'm glad that the levels of "secret knowledge" in TWI didn't of themselves make us all conspirators. And I don't think the levels were of themselves evil by virtue of their secrecy.
But if the lawsuits against TWI are the tip of an iceberg that represents regular practice in TWI, then we have conspiracy - proveable conspiracy.
I guess that takes this TWI conspiracy out of the realm of a "good" conspiracy theory and makes it bad.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
9
7
9
4
Popular Days
Jan 2
25
Jan 1
16
Jan 3
7
Dec 31
6
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 9 posts
Tom 7 posts
vickles 9 posts
Ham 4 posts
Popular Days
Jan 2 2005
25 posts
Jan 1 2005
16 posts
Jan 3 2005
7 posts
Dec 31 2004
6 posts
dmiller
The deer walked quietly, peacefully through the meadow.
The Indian (native American) hunter, drew his bow, took aim and fired.
The hunter, apologized to the deer, as he gutted it, and took it home as "so much meat".
The *family* was fed, but the deer died, and it's guts torn out, apology or not.
I think the same has been done here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
jonny, I think sometimes I understand where your coming from. But, to tell someone you will be praying for their deliverance just aint a good way of apologizing. I think in some ways we all need deliverance in one way or another, huh? Who is to say one needs it more than the other?
Even though you changed your post some of us did get a look at it. Calling us bitches and saying what you did which I won't bring up, wasn't very nice either. I could get mean and nasty but I don't think that would do either. I could say that I would pray for your deliverance but that isn't the way either.
I think with this subject your just not understanding what women went through. You may think that you do but what you posted in the disappeared post it shows that you don't.
I really don't think you mean to be 'mean spirited' but it does come off to some people as that.
Just an apology would have sufficed without telling someone they need something in their life. Could you have just said I'm sorry without anything else?
I don't want to fight with you. There are a lot of things we disagree with and would like to disagree as adults not trying to do the one up sort of thing. It would be the PC sort of way, huh?
;)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HAPe4me
um Jonny,
no thank you, (edited to delete unnecessary info) ~HAP
Edited by HAPe4meLink to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
And maybe what you need to do is to engage your brain before you open your mouth.
You have a habit of saying hurtful things, then apologizing after being taken to task for them.
Dmiller said it well, and there's another metaphor that applies. It says something about not being unable to "unring" a bell.
Wouldn't it be better to think how you might be affecting people before you post, rather than just seeing what you can get away with and apologizing after you see the effect?
I don't think you're oblivious to the effect your words will have on people before you post them. I think you know damn wall the effect they'll have and say them anyway because, after all, you can just apologize. At least that's the pattern as it looks to me to be playing out.
Picture GreaseSpot as someone else's home for a moment. You might feel free let out a loud belch in your own home, but maybe you should think twice before doing so in the discussion "home" we all share.
And your "apology" to excathedra was condescending as all hell.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom
The real quest of a conspiracy theory is to find out whodunnit - or whoisdoinit. Conspiracy theories are made to appear absurd by positing as the original doer one who is in an underling position whose doing, if original, could only appear magical by virtue of his lack of ability; thereby, leading all to pooh pooh the conspiracy. All would more readily believe that all the amazing coincidences were accidental (highly implausible) than to believe that a bozo such as Bush pulled off such an amazing design on purpose (even more implausible).
We have to look higher up in the food chain for the originator not only to fit in the conspiracy theory, but to lend it even more credence.
Johnny, you said, "the real emphasis was on the Bush agenda of ruling the world with giant evil corporations!"
Bush couldn't rule his own corporations, nevermind "giant evil" ones, so by virtue of association of Bush'es stupidity with such a daunting role of ruler of the world conspiracy, the conspiracy theory is made to look foolish.
But again, the pivotal point - when it comes to credence or no credence in conspiracy theory, is in figuring whodonit. Bush, obviously, can't do jack; therefore, any consideration that he would rule anything world-wide is absurd. But Bush never, as you say, ruled "the world with giant evil corporations!" On the contrary, anyone REALLY familiar with basic conspiracy theory 101 would realize that rather than Bush ruling "the world with giant evil corporations," giant evil corporations rule the world with Bush - and other stooges. Admittedly, Bush has moved up to the dubiously laudible position of MAJOR stooge, being president of the USA, but no further. Bush was bought and sold before he ever took office via the sham two party system designed by the puppet masters to make Americans think they have choice and exercise control - what a joke!
"I was stunned," you say, as you "...sat there, and [said] the only thing that I heard was the cry of a Mocking Bird just outside my window."
How ironic! The only song that the Mocking Bird sings is the last one sung in the neighborhood. So you can't know the originator of the song sung. Bush'es only deed is to sing the song most recently sung in the 'hood by the ruler of the roost - every roost has one - a top cat, dog, ruler, don'tchaknow - every cat, bird, chicken, ruler of the roost, knows that, why don't you - programmed by the roost ruler?
"Mocking Bird" indeed!
The difference between the merely tragic and true tragedy lies in the inevidetablity of the tragic result - its inevitability being brought to pass by a classic flaw in the character of the human.
It is truly tragic that there are natural resources galore to satisfy man's need, yet his greed prevents the provision of paradise from success.
It is supremely ironic that the downfall of man has been primordially prescribed and prescripted, posted for all to see before and after Shakespeare's tragedies, yet man can do nothing to prevent it from coming to pass.
No top cat ever got to the top except by beating out all the other cats.
How can anyone think that the smartest and richest players, those most in control of the design and utilization of the systems of the game, do not conspire to monopolize the field of play?
Wouldn't you?
Only mnakes sense - & they didn't get where they are by being stupid or nice.
Nobody would put Bush in charge of the barn, nevermind the ranch (although a patriotic public would vote for him thinking he will police the place). Bush does what he is told by "Bush'es Brain." The trick is to figure out who Bush'es Brain works for. I'm betting it is the same people that Wilson's alter ego worked for - follow the money associations and inclinations.
Same tired old conspiracy theory? Yeah, really tired! But never more apparent.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
I do believe in conspiracy theories, at least a lot of them...but twi conspiracy not so sure. A lot of greed not just for money but for power that is for sure but I think it started with one man that wanted it all.
As for other conspiracies, I do tend to believe in some of the Kennedy theroies. Too many people would have wanted him dead. Lots of things going on in our country during that time. It just seems plausible to me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom
Yeah, I tend to agree, vickles.
"A lot of greed not just for money but for power that is for sure."
VP taught that the love of money is really the love of power. Nobody would love actual money were it not for the power (over others) that money brings. That's what people (some people: "It is harder for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven...")grow to love.
"but I think it started with one man that wanted it all."
Maybe. I don't know. It is hard to say where it STARTED. I tend to think that VP just didn't trust Jesus Christ to be the head, so he didn't trust people to follow Jesus Christ's lead, so VP HAD to see to it that it was done correctly by centralizing all decisions in himself. I think that after that, the power plays all over the "ministry" and the details of establishing that power (depowering other believers) had to play out in the leavening of the whole lump that became TWI.
But maybe you're right.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
I don't think it was all about money either. I'm thinking more along the lines of being the idol as far as people worshipping him. Total obedience. His way the total truth. And we all know (I hope anyways), that sexual assaults on young women is not about sex but about power.
I think vpw rather fancied hitler and wanted that kind of idealation. That is why I believe there was no conspiracy at that time.
Now that things have changed in twi, there may be some conspiracies.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i've been thinking
it's always embarrassing and difficult to express yourself when you know you're going to look too emotional or whatever
but i'm tired of apologizing and weighing my words when it comes to my devastating experiences
i just can't get into this being funny. read it; see how it would make you feeland hairy, i know he's your bro and he always has good intentions.... but what can i say ?
and jonny, i'm not angry all the time, at all. your perception, advice, etc., is not only wrong, it's insulting to me
you probably see me angry more than anyone because you usually .... me off royally
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
Jonny, I don't "hate" you. I don't even know you, apart from your words in these forums. I often disagree with you, that's true, but there are lots of GSers I like who I disagree with on a regular basis.
It's true that I don't like it when you charge around like a bull in a china shop tossing out words that are going to hurt people.
You think my post to you was vicious? Blunt, yes; vicious, hardly.
The apology is, IMO, a moot point, because the fact remains that you can't unring a bell. So my encouragement to you remains the same as before--to try thinking of others before you post. You can't "unhurt" someone's feelings just by saying you're sorry. You can, however, avoid hurting people again by taking my advice. It's free!
Whether you want to consider what I've said or just react and make yourself some kind of victim is really up to you. But I didn't post what I did out of hate or viciousness.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
sea monkeys, wierwille, sexual assault, yeah i get it, it's funny
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
I wonder about that though. I often wonder if the reason VPs brother emtpied his bank account and give it to twi for for reasons other than the love in his heart. He could, afterall, get a tax right-off, and still use the money since he was a member of the bot. It clearly looked like a benefit to both: tax-free money and money to make VP happy. Anyway, it's just a thought.
I had a well-informed person complain to me about warning them of the consequences of how they handled monetary things.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
I have worded posts in a way that was very offensive to others without realizing it. I have had my foot chewed by those who helped me realize it. My realization of that bout myself was very a very hard pillow to swallow.
I guess I'm just trying to say that sometimes people aren't malicious in their offensiveness. But it takes an understanding heart to show them the how their words affect people.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
Jonny,
Yes, you have apologized several times, but its in the way you apologized. You can't just snip out all your apologies and look like that you just apologized several times. There was more in there than that. I think we have shared that with you many times.
I don't think anyone actually hates you, that is a very strong word. I don't like how you treat some people around here. There have been a lot of people hurt through your words and I don't think you really realize that.
Maybe, if you tried what linda said and read your words before posting and think about how others would take it (maybe, if you care) it might not be so explosive. But if your having a hard time understanding why people are getting hurt then I guess that wouldn't work for you either. I don't know how to help you with this one.
I think the biggest problem is that you really don't have a clue what some others think and feel. If you did you would not have posted what you did that mysteriously disappeared. Its great you got rid of it but the words that were there told me that there was no comprehension or empathy.
Linda was correct when she said that you come in like a bull charging and then try to end up looking like a victim. I've seen it time and time again. No one wants to pick on you, believe me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
no jonny, you just keep coming back for more. I guess its like my kids that have to have the last word.
:P-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pawtucket
Excathedra,
My apologies to you. I did not know about this until just a few moments ago.
By the way, great post.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
I take it Jonny's posts have been 'excised', since I don't see any of them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
That's correct, Garth.
Now in my posts I'm scolding a figment of my imagination.
:D-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
Wow. An un-person.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pawtucket
For the record, Jonny deleted the content of his posts.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Refiner
Its very unlikely that there is such secret prectise at the top of the pyramid, if there was, it would be posted all over this board by now with lurid detail.
Someone high up would leave the church, then make themself an apostate celebrity by blowing the whistle on the secret magickal practises of the TWI elite.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
I don't think enough people have HEARD of twi to make a "celebrity"
of anyone turning state's evidence.
Also, I don't think there's one person orchestrating things.
I think there's a bunch of selfish people who want things to go
for their convenience and exploitation, and that's as far as their
planning goes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Wow he disappeared into thin air, just like people at TWI used to.
Well known leaders and other people would be as if they never had existed or fallen off the map--is that the mark of some secret society?
The numerology business that they used to define or I should say twist the meaning of words was always very strange...(this word is used 49 times, which is 7 times 7 which connotes in its meaning..blah blah blah...)
As were the levels of 'secret knowledge' that would never be revealed until you attained that level.
ie..wait until you take the class-then you'll get your answers.
WOW--you gotta go to know.
Same thing with the Advanced class--the material was always guarded until you paid the cash and sat through it
It was a slow indoctrination over a period of time much like a secret society, by the time they reached 'the top' many were apparently so seered that anything was permissible and any vestiges of christianity except the veneer had long disappeared...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom
Refiner, "Its very unlikely that there is such secret prectise at the top of the pyramid..."
I'm wondering what secret practice is "such" secret practice. Are we still addressing Mister P-Mosh's original post that there was a secret pagan organization? And the similarity that he draws to the Freemasons being a cover for the illuminati?
I think even at the top of the illuminati, there are few, if any, who with all consciousness of wrong doing and iniquity being carried out make themselves out to be the good guys so they can secretly be the bad guys. Even at the top, they don't consider themselves to be bad, but illuminated.
I think the same holds true for TWI. I don't think there has ever been anyone near or at the top who thought they were pagans the whole time deliberately fooling the underlings into thinking that they were Christians.
The different levels of "secret knowledge" that mstar alluded to we all have experienced. The question of whether these levels constitute conspiracy hinges on whether two or more persons in these levels agreed to commit an otherwise criminal or unlawful act. Secret levels in themselves do not make a conspiracy. The "unfruitful works of darkness" which are done in secret are not the only secret things. Other perfectly good things are, and ought to be, secret.
I haven't kept up with the details of the various legal proceedings against TWI, but, if memory serves, conspiracy was among the charges. People bringing others to the MOG for dirty deeds constitutes conspiracy legally.
Mr. P-Mosh offered us the idea that "any good conspiracy theory, this is just taking a few facts and combining them in such a way to guess at something unproveable." I suppose the supposed unproveability of a "good" conspiracy theory increases the tease value of the "good" conspiracy theory, but conspiracies can and are proven all the time.
Here are some considerations that I've found:
Unlike crimes committed by individuals acting alone, it is not necessary for guilt that the act be fully consummated. Many acts that would not be criminal if accomplished by an individual alone may nevertheless be the object of a conspiracy. Not only that, but a statement of a conspirator in furtherance of the conspiracy is admissible against all conspirators - uh, oh, even if the statement includes damaging references to another conspirator, and often even if it violates the rules against hearsay evidence. The conspiracy can be proved by circumstantial evidence. Any conspirator is guilty of any substantive crime committed by any other conspirator in furtherance of the enterprise. Double uh, oh.
So, I'm glad that the levels of "secret knowledge" in TWI didn't of themselves make us all conspirators. And I don't think the levels were of themselves evil by virtue of their secrecy.
But if the lawsuits against TWI are the tip of an iceberg that represents regular practice in TWI, then we have conspiracy - proveable conspiracy.
I guess that takes this TWI conspiracy out of the realm of a "good" conspiracy theory and makes it bad.
Sorry if this ruins the fun here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.