And we thought they were making us into better men and women of God.....
It's a classic exmple of not being able to see the forest for the trees and being too stubborn to listen to family members when they expressed their concerns. --> :(--> --> :(-->
Yeah.....or another analogy, we looked forward to sunny beach fellowship and learning and had NO IDEA of the tsunami waves of evil that were raging towards our naive world.
Pretty easy, I think. He was trying to sell a product. He wanted to minimize his costs and maximize his profits. And in the meantime, if he could also ingratiate himself by abusing some of his volunteer slaves (hell, we even willingly called ourselves that!), well, all the better.
Wierwille was simply an amoral businessman and hedonist. The "spiritual" trappings were just cover, nothing more...
The corps training was an excercise in manipulation through conditioning. Studying the work of Pavlov explains it nicely. For some folks, the training was devasting because they had given "their all" to the training. Others of us held back...I jumped through all the hoops but they never had my unqualified loyalty. Some of us held twi to certain standards, while others got so swept away, that twi became the standard. Those were the ones that went off the deep end. The rest of us treaded water until we reached the safe shores of sanity again.
What was Veepee thinking? George hit the nail on the head. The guy was a grifter that took advantage of the situation in order to satiate his own lustful desires.
Thank you for reminding us of that evil outfit. I sometimes become numb to the horrors I was exposed to while in that training and how it nearly destroyed me. I came crawling out on my hands and knees barely recognizing myself as a human with feelings and thoughts after that experience.
Thank you. It is good to remember what we escaped with our lives from.
Hairy, we met in the corps and we had some fun times, maybe? and sky, and ala....
ala, I absolutley love your hubby who was friends with mine. :)-->
It wasn't all bad, else we never would have stayed. Might I suggest that the wonderful people and fun times we had kept us in despite the b.s.? I think the commaraderie and friendship among us plebes helped perpetuate the tolerance for injustice? The friendship was very good.
The leadership was corrupt, no doubt, but geeze louise, I met some of the most wonderful people that I will never forget. In my mind, that's worth something.
I will never forget some of the lives and times of those that I met and shared something with.
Ok, so maybe I'm co-dependent, or whatever, but you guys were really cool.
:)-->
And Georgie, we never met while in, but I am quite sure we would've hung out together. :D-->
EX10, and Ala P, I too had some great times with the both of you! I had been a dropout from high school, and the Tenth/12th Corps was my first ever "academic" situation that I had ever been involved with. I enjoyed the times I had there-well, some of the times I had there-and I am here to say that some of it was really good! I just plain loved the friends that I came in contact with, and I still draw on some of the challenges that were presented to me to this day! Sure, their agenda may have been different than mine or your own, but, at least somebody was playing the harmonica on our way to the top of that mountain, no? Eh?
I wonder what kind of father he was??? Did he treat the girls differently from the boys. He seemed to single Don out as a failure but Don gave up a high position in education to come and serve his dad's nightmare.
I think it was by coersion more than anything else.
quote:It wasn't all bad, else we never would have stayed. Might I suggest that the wonderful people and fun times we had kept us in despite the b.s.? I think the commaraderie and friendship among us plebes helped perpetuate the tolerance for injustice? The friendship was very good.
The leadership was corrupt, no doubt, but geeze louise, I met some of the most wonderful people that I will never forget. In my mind, that's worth something.
ex10,
I have considered this for a number of years. No, it wasn't all bad...(is that "all" without exception or "all" with distinction?). Of course not, but then......is an abusive husband or relationship "all" bad? I mean....what about when the abusive husband is gone or what about the sweet, innocent children?
The point that it wasn't "all bad" becomes insignificant, imo. Every corps person experienced a different corps experience. Some graduated from the corps and split two weeks later....never heard from again. Some corps girls were sexually assaulted. Some corps got out unscathed and melted back into a home fellowship somewhere. It still doesn't change the premise of this thread.
The screaming sessions after lightbearers were horrendous! The namecalling in this supposedly Christian leadership training attacked my character and self-worth. The spewings after corps nights, the ridiculous singling out of certain corps to "teach" something.....was nothing short of full-scale intimidation, manipulation and a lording over the oppressed.
Sure, I met some "wonderful people" in the corps, but I've met "wonderful people" in high school, college, traveling, co-workers, etc. etc. And yes, it is worth something.
But to some.......the corps experience wreaked havoc and destruction. Some paid a very dear price for this "training"........mental turmoil, sexual assault, divorce, suicide. Of course, it didn't happen to "all" of us. But geeze louise......I just don't see any way to sugar-coat the corps training.
VPW totally failed in his attempts to establish Christian training for aspiring and dedicated leaders. He abused his authority and power over the youth.
Was it extreme spiritual abuse..........YES. I will never forget some of the lives who were damaged! Was it worth it? If you ask those some 350 people from the 10th corps, you'd probably get about 350 different opinions. Your opinion might be rosy.....their opinion might include shades of blood-red.
I suppose a member of Hitler's gestapo could also sit and remember fondly, all the good friends he made during his time of "service". When one looks at the overall picture, an ugly depiction of abuse and manipulaton comes into focus. I have nothing but regret for my time in the corps.
Although I appreciate the sentiment, please keep in mind that there are those among us who can't go there.
To elucidate, if I allowed myself to have nothing but regret, I'd probably have to divorce my husband whom I met while in-rez, and what would I do with my kids?, and the fruit of that relationship? and the wonderful family relationships built upon those who I met while there?
Although I think I understand how you guys feel, please consider those of us who feel differently. It's complicated, sorting through all the mixed feelings and emotions of the past, and living with the choice we made then.
Should those of us who have benefitted from our experience feel guilty? Are you guys out to shame us?
I'm with you, Ex-10. I had a mixture of experiences and have mixed feelings about a lot of them.
While I hate what happened to some of us here and really feel for them, and the aftermath they've been left to deal with, I don't feel like having to deal with being accused of turning a blind eye to the bad whenever I acknowledge any of the good. So I just don't talk about it much either way.
Call me simple or whatever you want, but I had quite a bit of a good time of self discovery while in-residence. I really had no idea what to expect and having just finished living for four years in cramped quarters on different ships, I kinda enjoyed staying in one place for a while and having some really good food served up that I didn't have to cook or clean up after. And I too met some people who were real quality individuals. I always tended to shy away from the big personalities because I've never been one to want to compete. But all in all I never had to do anything unreasonable and I picked up a few job skills while I was at it. Anyone need their windows cleaned? LOL
quote:Should those of us who have benefitted from our experience feel guilty? Are you guys out to shame us?
--> -->
I thought Greasespot, and especially this About The Way forum, was to EXPOSE twi?
Sure, I understand that every corps experience was different. I thought I already said that. Is it unfair or wrong to give the other side of the spectrum of corps training?
Heck, I never even mentioned the commando episode in the mud late one Sunday night!! Nor did I talk about the dorm change assignments where we moved all of our belongings in January...IN A BLIZZARD.
I thought I signed up for Christian leadership training.....not the marine corps? ;)-->
quote:While I hate what happened to some of us here and really feel for them, and the aftermath they've been left to deal with, I don't feel like having to deal with being accused of turning a blind eye to the bad whenever I acknowledge any of the good.
LindaZ,
Who said anything about "being accused of turning a blind eye to the bad?" If that's what you read between the lines of this thread.....then, I want to be upfront, THAT IS NOT MY INTENTION.
I was very specific in stating that if 350 were to give their opinions on the corps training, then there would probably be 350 different responses. I don't know how to be any clearer.
quote:While I hate what happened to some of us here and really feel for them, and the aftermath they've been left to deal with, I don't feel like having to deal with being accused of turning a blind eye to the bad whenever I acknowledge any of the good.
LindaZ,
Who said anything about "being accused of turning a blind eye to the bad?" If that's what you read between the lines of this thread.....then, I want to be upfront, THAT IS NOT MY INTENTION.
I was very specific in stating that if 350 were to give their opinions on the corps training, then there would probably be 350 different responses. I don't know how to be any clearer.
?????
skyrider
skyrider, I think that LindaZ is just saying that that is generally what happens, not necessarily that it has happened in this thread.
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Belle
And we thought they were making us into better men and women of God.....
It's a classic exmple of not being able to see the forest for the trees and being too stubborn to listen to family members when they expressed their concerns.
--> 
:(--> 
--> 
:(-->
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skyrider
Belle,
Yeah.....or another analogy, we looked forward to sunny beach fellowship and learning and had NO IDEA of the tsunami waves of evil that were raging towards our naive world.
If only there had been a warning system in place!
NOW THERE IS.......it's the internet.
:)-->
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George Aar
What was VPW thinking?
Pretty easy, I think. He was trying to sell a product. He wanted to minimize his costs and maximize his profits. And in the meantime, if he could also ingratiate himself by abusing some of his volunteer slaves (hell, we even willingly called ourselves that!), well, all the better.
Wierwille was simply an amoral businessman and hedonist. The "spiritual" trappings were just cover, nothing more...
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GrouchoMarxJr
The corps training was an excercise in manipulation through conditioning. Studying the work of Pavlov explains it nicely. For some folks, the training was devasting because they had given "their all" to the training. Others of us held back...I jumped through all the hoops but they never had my unqualified loyalty. Some of us held twi to certain standards, while others got so swept away, that twi became the standard. Those were the ones that went off the deep end. The rest of us treaded water until we reached the safe shores of sanity again.
What was Veepee thinking? George hit the nail on the head. The guy was a grifter that took advantage of the situation in order to satiate his own lustful desires.
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excathedra
it astounds me that people, offshoots, revere him to this day
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Bramble
It astounds me that people, even after leaving the Way, still look to ministers with this type of training, as their spiritual leaders.
And send their kids to summer camp with them.
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A la prochaine
Dear Skyrider,
Thank you for reminding us of that evil outfit. I sometimes become numb to the horrors I was exposed to while in that training and how it nearly destroyed me. I came crawling out on my hands and knees barely recognizing myself as a human with feelings and thoughts after that experience.
Thank you. It is good to remember what we escaped with our lives from.
Thank you. It is good to be thankful.
Thank you.
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skyrider
A la prochaine,
Yeah......an evil outfit and the "smart ones" didn't come back in-residence after Christmas break.
;)-->
But had we not traveled through "the valley of death"........we wouldn't begin to appreciate "the mountaintops of life" and that our God is with us.
We made it, A la. We may have crawled a little, but we made it OUT!
(((((((A la)))))))
skyrider
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A la prochaine
Sky,
Yes we made it. What a beautiful reality!
((((((((Sky))))))))))))))
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ex10
But wait a minute, hold it!
Hairy, we met in the corps and we had some fun times, maybe? and sky, and ala....
ala, I absolutley love your hubby who was friends with mine.
:)-->
It wasn't all bad, else we never would have stayed. Might I suggest that the wonderful people and fun times we had kept us in despite the b.s.? I think the commaraderie and friendship among us plebes helped perpetuate the tolerance for injustice? The friendship was very good.
The leadership was corrupt, no doubt, but geeze louise, I met some of the most wonderful people that I will never forget. In my mind, that's worth something.
I will never forget some of the lives and times of those that I met and shared something with.
Ok, so maybe I'm co-dependent, or whatever, but you guys were really cool.
And Georgie, we never met while in, but I am quite sure we would've hung out together.
:D-->
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J0nny Ling0
Aww geez,
EX10, and Ala P, I too had some great times with the both of you! I had been a dropout from high school, and the Tenth/12th Corps was my first ever "academic" situation that I had ever been involved with. I enjoyed the times I had there-well, some of the times I had there-and I am here to say that some of it was really good! I just plain loved the friends that I came in contact with, and I still draw on some of the challenges that were presented to me to this day! Sure, their agenda may have been different than mine or your own, but, at least somebody was playing the harmonica on our way to the top of that mountain, no? Eh?
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J0nny Ling0
BTW Ex 10,
I left you a Private Message on the 24th of the month, but I don't think you have checked there lately....
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Rejoice
YIKES!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder what kind of father he was??? Did he treat the girls differently from the boys. He seemed to single Don out as a failure but Don gave up a high position in education to come and serve his dad's nightmare.
I think it was by coersion more than anything else.
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skyrider
ex10,
I have considered this for a number of years. No, it wasn't all bad...(is that "all" without exception or "all" with distinction?). Of course not, but then......is an abusive husband or relationship "all" bad? I mean....what about when the abusive husband is gone or what about the sweet, innocent children?
The point that it wasn't "all bad" becomes insignificant, imo. Every corps person experienced a different corps experience. Some graduated from the corps and split two weeks later....never heard from again. Some corps girls were sexually assaulted. Some corps got out unscathed and melted back into a home fellowship somewhere. It still doesn't change the premise of this thread.
The screaming sessions after lightbearers were horrendous! The namecalling in this supposedly Christian leadership training attacked my character and self-worth. The spewings after corps nights, the ridiculous singling out of certain corps to "teach" something.....was nothing short of full-scale intimidation, manipulation and a lording over the oppressed.
Sure, I met some "wonderful people" in the corps, but I've met "wonderful people" in high school, college, traveling, co-workers, etc. etc. And yes, it is worth something.
But to some.......the corps experience wreaked havoc and destruction. Some paid a very dear price for this "training"........mental turmoil, sexual assault, divorce, suicide. Of course, it didn't happen to "all" of us. But geeze louise......I just don't see any way to sugar-coat the corps training.
VPW totally failed in his attempts to establish Christian training for aspiring and dedicated leaders. He abused his authority and power over the youth.
Was it extreme spiritual abuse..........YES. I will never forget some of the lives who were damaged! Was it worth it? If you ask those some 350 people from the 10th corps, you'd probably get about 350 different opinions. Your opinion might be rosy.....their opinion might include shades of blood-red.
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ex10
sky,
Good point, and I actually agree with you.
:)-->
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skyrider
ex10,
I like sitting at your table.
:)-->
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GrouchoMarxJr
Well stated Skyrider...
I suppose a member of Hitler's gestapo could also sit and remember fondly, all the good friends he made during his time of "service". When one looks at the overall picture, an ugly depiction of abuse and manipulaton comes into focus. I have nothing but regret for my time in the corps.
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skyrider
UncleHairy, I couldn't agree more.
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ex10
Although I appreciate the sentiment, please keep in mind that there are those among us who can't go there.
To elucidate, if I allowed myself to have nothing but regret, I'd probably have to divorce my husband whom I met while in-rez, and what would I do with my kids?, and the fruit of that relationship? and the wonderful family relationships built upon those who I met while there?
Although I think I understand how you guys feel, please consider those of us who feel differently. It's complicated, sorting through all the mixed feelings and emotions of the past, and living with the choice we made then.
Should those of us who have benefitted from our experience feel guilty? Are you guys out to shame us?
Just asking......
:)-->
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Linda Z
I'm with you, Ex-10. I had a mixture of experiences and have mixed feelings about a lot of them.
While I hate what happened to some of us here and really feel for them, and the aftermath they've been left to deal with, I don't feel like having to deal with being accused of turning a blind eye to the bad whenever I acknowledge any of the good. So I just don't talk about it much either way.
'Tis a sticky wicket, for sure!
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SlingShot
Call me simple or whatever you want, but I had quite a bit of a good time of self discovery while in-residence. I really had no idea what to expect and having just finished living for four years in cramped quarters on different ships, I kinda enjoyed staying in one place for a while and having some really good food served up that I didn't have to cook or clean up after. And I too met some people who were real quality individuals. I always tended to shy away from the big personalities because I've never been one to want to compete. But all in all I never had to do anything unreasonable and I picked up a few job skills while I was at it. Anyone need their windows cleaned? LOL
Love you all,
Foggy
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skyrider
I thought Greasespot, and especially this About The Way forum, was to EXPOSE twi?
Sure, I understand that every corps experience was different. I thought I already said that. Is it unfair or wrong to give the other side of the spectrum of corps training?
Heck, I never even mentioned the commando episode in the mud late one Sunday night!! Nor did I talk about the dorm change assignments where we moved all of our belongings in January...IN A BLIZZARD.
I thought I signed up for Christian leadership training.....not the marine corps?
;)-->
skyrider
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skyrider
LindaZ,
Who said anything about "being accused of turning a blind eye to the bad?" If that's what you read between the lines of this thread.....then, I want to be upfront, THAT IS NOT MY INTENTION.
I was very specific in stating that if 350 were to give their opinions on the corps training, then there would probably be 350 different responses. I don't know how to be any clearer.
?????
skyrider
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Steve!
skyrider, I think that LindaZ is just saying that that is generally what happens, not necessarily that it has happened in this thread.
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