Oh yes, House.. the new classes. They must be so proud of themselves. That's another phrase in itself, "You will be so blessed to take the new class.."
"We are kindler and gentler now. You are still expected to sit at rapt attention, for two hours at a time, but we afford you the blessing of sitting, not in the hard as a rock metal chairs of old. They may be slightly padded for your comfort."
"And you should be thankful. We are only charging you fifty dollars for 60 years of "research" that any second-rate hack could study and regurgitate from our old worn out library of materials."
"blessed to cart the kids off God knows where again, quit your job so you can be able to meet our schedule for the new class, etc.."
If they call subjecting the four to five hundred "qualified" folks to this "publication", I think they are seriously in trouble. At least the chief regurgitator may be a little nicer guy.
quote:One of the WOWs in my "family" acquired a car on credit for the year. His mother had actually made payment for him for the year. I think she forked over the whole amount to him, he just had to mail it in to the bank. They raked him over the coals because he acquired debt in the middle of the WOW year. This was in 1977. Maybe this was an exception back then, I don't know.
Getting a car loan while out WOW is a highly stupid thing to do, don't you think, for how can one possibly maintain a car loan when one is working 3-4 hours a day, earning minimum wage? Ridiculous. What if the parents had run on hard times and couldn't make the payments? Geeze, I think I'd have raked the person over the coals too. We know the rules before we enter the program, not being in debt and all; but that compounds it with stupidity.
I remember one of my WOW years, asking my parents to send cash to buy a moped. That was so kewl in the summertime. Another year, a truck crashed a wow sister's car I was driving, and a wow brother came through with his car as a replacement.
Oldies, the guys mom paid for the thing for the whole year. This included the actual car payments, insurance, and a modest supply of gas money. Stupid? I am not quite so sure.
Plus he had all the payments, cash in hand. For the whole year. The leadership was aware of all of these details. Insurance paid for the year. If the mom did indeed fall into hard times, it would not have made a bit of difference. Still, they ranted.. you know, yell first, then try to figure out what's really going on later.
I guess it's a tough call. On the one hand, we went on the program to believe God to meet our needs without necessarily asking our parents for support. On the other, you have a parent willing to buy you a new car that will bless you and your family for the rest of the WOW year. I'd have been blessed with it and thanked God for such a generous parent. I guess others wouldn't.
It was not a bribe either. "If you do so and so, I will pay for the car." The lady saw what she perceived a change for the positive in her son's life and wanted to contribute something, out of love. I think the leadership wanted to kick him off the field- somebody higher up still had some common sense.
I don't know about you Trefor, but they did ask me. And about anybody else I knew that went also. Maybe you were just extra special!
One of the WOWs in my "family" acquired a car on credit for the year. His mother had actually made payment for him for the year. I think she forked over the whole amount to him, he just had to mail it in to the bank. They raked him over the coals because he acquired debt in the middle of the WOW year. This was in 1977. Maybe this was an exception back then, I don't know.
I imagine that the present leadership may think that "well, that is just old news, how is that relevant?" My answer is: 1. I actually witnessed it. 2. Things are proven to be far worse now.
No history for that time frame. But in the past few years had you altered your financial status it certainly was grounds for removal from whatever you were in the process of (WD, WC training, etc). And if not to that end it would have involved being controlled into a rude and belittling meeting of at least one leader present. As I was a part I saw it worsen, regardless of the application. The foundation failed.
House, no problemo. Actually, this turned out to be "my kind of thread". I have been thinking about a lot of those little phrases for a while. "Everybody serves something; why not serve the best?" A lot of those stupid phrases were framed in the form of a question- only one answer possible. "Why of course I would want to serve the best." Too bad it turned out to really mean, "everybody serves something: why not serve the BOT?"
quote: One of the WOWs in my "family" acquired a car on credit for the year. His mother had actually made payment for him for the year. I think she forked over the whole amount to him, he just had to mail it in to the bank. They raked him over the coals because he acquired debt in the middle of the WOW year.
You did, Mr. H. :D--> They were probably jealous that he a) got a new car and b) had a mom who loved him enough and had enough money to do that for him.
My parents aren't hurting for money, but they worked very hard to be where they are today. I don't ask them for money (ok, I have, but only in dire circumstances) and they don't throw money at me. My daddy is very frugal with his money and does not believe in spoiling his kids. HOWEVER, he also believes that renting when you could be buying is foolish and has disagreed with other non-policy policies of TWI. He paid the closing costs for my ex and I so that we could buy a house. He also paid for us to fly to see them and various vacation expenses so that we could spend time with them, knowing we couldn't go if we had to pay for the whole thing ourselves. Spoiled? I don't think so. I think it's a loving family and an awesome daddy who will do anything he can to get to spend time with his daughter and son-in-law.
Why am I rattling on about this? I caught flak for it on a regular basis and now that I'm divorced it's completely thrown in my face. I think TWI is intimidated by people who are successful and openly disagree with TWI. I think they are jealous of the genuine, close relationships and families that they can't have because of all the fear that is so ingrained in their organization. There's no way you can eradicate that without getting rid of the entire old guard and starting from scratch.
Oh yes, House.. the new classes. They must be so proud of themselves. That's another phrase in itself, "You will be so blessed to take the new class.."
"We are kindler and gentler now. You are still expected to sit at rapt attention, for two hours at a time, but we afford you the blessing of sitting, not in the hard as a rock metal chairs of old. They may be slightly padded for your comfort."
"And you should be thankful. We are only charging you fifty dollars for 60 years of "research" that any second-rate hack could study and regurgitate from our old worn out library of materials."
"blessed to cart the kids off God knows where again, quit your job so you can be able to meet our schedule for the new class, etc.."
If they call subjecting the four to five hundred "qualified" folks to this "publication", I think they are seriously in trouble. At least the chief regurgitator may be a little nicer guy.
It's more you need these classes to retain your spiritual standing, being blessed seemed of less concern to them. Something that changed I noticed.
Also the classes went to 1 hour segments (only 2 segments per night) with break and for the most part included table and chairs. That was a goodie we thought. Geez!
Got to thinking about this one: "this is the age of confrontation". "all that is necessary is a genuine spiritual suspicion". They quoted and revered that junk like God himself came down and wrote it in stone tablets himself.
Just wondering, how many of you ever received an apology along with a statement that they (higher ups doing the "godly" confronting) were WRONG? I can't remember even a single incident. Usually an underling would justify it, "they did it because they love". To he** with whatever effect it had on the one wrongly accused. Just take a deep breath and get over it- "renew your mind".
I am normally a decent human being.. but I can "get somebody by the throat" if I really have to. I can count the number of times I did so in my life on less than half a hand, and then only when it was really needed. But for Martinpukes underlings, they did not seem to be happy unless they could confront the he** out of somebody before breakfast, right or wrong. I think things got to the place that whosoever could scream the loudest was revered as more spiritual.
I think the WOW thing got me going on this one.. you know, scream first, figure it out later. Gotta walk in love! When overseers heard the word "loan" it was probably like red to a bull. Flew in a rage- couldn't convince them of anything after that. Still, no apologies, "they are just doing their job.."
I guess it's a tough call. On the one hand, we went on the program to believe God to meet our needs without necessarily asking our parents for support. On the other, you have a parent willing to buy you a new car that will bless you and your family for the rest of the WOW year. I'd have been blessed with it and thanked God for such a generous parent. I guess others wouldn't.
I agree in the challenge to do all you can do and expect the rest to be handled by someone more able than me. For me that is God. But they took it to control of your finances, this was a step along the way. Sometimes the recognition of how they gained an upper hand on our lives not only helps the greasers here but also the lurkers there.
Your saying you would have been blessed with it was nice to see oldiesman.
The other common phrase that went with that: "You just need to be spiritual enough to handle it". Really helps after being screamed at an hour and a half for something you did not do..
Belle, all the time I have, must head out. First had to say I so admire your stand, it wasn't the easy choice Belle, bless your heart in the fullest way possible.
"... you will need to fill out a simple financial statement ... statements..."
"I feel that I must point out that I was never asked any of these questions, during my 18 year involvement with TWI. Nor did I ever see anyone else required to submit such."
"The closest that I recall was when someone went WOW, they had to list what debts and financial obligations they had, to prove that they were walking into the WOW program without bringing into it financial obligaitons that would endanger their future WOW-family."
"You left before the 90's didn't you?"
1997.
1991-1993 I was working as a MP and Police Department Chaplain, and I coordinated a Twig. We generally avoided contact with limb [Ct] as much as possible. So long as blue-forms were sent in every week and someone went to a Twig-Coordinators Meeting once a month [or often we skipped 2 or 3 months]. Just as I was transfering, we got a new Limb Coordinator, he wigged out that I had been performing weddings. I asked him if there existed anyone in The Way's Clergy who could do them for the beleivers, he got upset and threw us out. :-)
1993-1997 I was Protestant Lay-Leader onboard USS Casimir Pulaski and later the USS Alaska, my wife did the Twig when I was under, and I did it when I was in-port [bangor, Washington]. We were really focused on ministering to those in our fellowship and on my boat. Again Blue-forms were a big deal, but do them weekly and everything else was moot. I dont think we ever did go to any Twig-Coordinator meetings while there. Once while I was away, a beleiver was painting our living room, and he searched through all our boxes and closets. He found books written by Rev. Cummins and others written by VPW though published at Gartmore House. Mosquido insisted that we burn those books, we refused, so we were thrown out again. [This actually made the third time for us to be 'thrown-out"].
We never did subscribe to The Way Magazine, as I was still trying to get my complimentary subscription from when I took PFAL in 1979. Another fellowship in the area got the weekly tapes, and commonly someone in our fellowship might get the tapes, so sometimes those could pass around.
Over the years coordinating various Twigs, I rarely saw any reason to spend any more time with Limb or Way-Corpse people than I had to. Often they were so negative and demanding.
Galen, that explains a lot. I think thing went sour in a real big way when Ole Craigers finally figured out how to get enough full time corpses to pass around to everybody. His mandates were to be obeyed to the letter, and he figured out a way to get the job done.
In my opinion, MOST of the corspes, at least the ones I met, were expertly schooled in advanced meddling. Their kids would "accidently" find something they would consider incriminating in your house. I can document this, but will let the party have their privacy. The fact that the kids had absolutely no business in your private affairs was irrelevant.
It's pretty despicable to stoop to using your own children as moles and stooges.
Makes me curious about the "believer" that did the painting for you. I can almost hear the justification. "Well, we'll "talk" to him, but we are God's household. Do you think we are supposed to have secrets from each other? What else are you not telling me?" Those are the kind of arguments I have heard. I would not be suprised if that was partly how they treated you.
For us, I think the full time corpse thing was one of the factors that really killed anything good that ministry had going for it that was left. We avoided the rotten apples as long as we could too, and could ignore stupid mandates. The full-time meddlers association made that impossible after a while.
I won't say all corps were bad. My cousin is a corps grad, and she is pretty terrific. She did have enough sense to know when to leave.
Kinda reminds me of the little "meeting" before I never went back. "We know something is wrong with you. Your only chance is to spill your guts. Now." For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what great evil that I was supposed to be or have done. The guy was just shooting in the dark. I said that basically, "I'll get back to you on it" and left. Last I saw or ever care to see them again. He wasn't real sharp- this was the guy who's claim to fame was eating three times a day without mixing his bread and vegetables. Cripe, if we had any books or stuff from "cop outs" I am sure he would have known. Frustrated, he just started shooting in the dark.
They've probably made him a region coordinator. Now wayfers far and wide can be warned of the dangers of mixing bread and vegetables. Funny, among my first thoughts when I met this guy was, "man, how did a guy that has less than an equivalent of 5th grade education make it through the corps?" On top of that, he had a pretty stupid looking smile when he fondly talked about his bread and vegetables..
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Ham
Oh yes, House.. the new classes. They must be so proud of themselves. That's another phrase in itself, "You will be so blessed to take the new class.."
"We are kindler and gentler now. You are still expected to sit at rapt attention, for two hours at a time, but we afford you the blessing of sitting, not in the hard as a rock metal chairs of old. They may be slightly padded for your comfort."
"And you should be thankful. We are only charging you fifty dollars for 60 years of "research" that any second-rate hack could study and regurgitate from our old worn out library of materials."
"blessed to cart the kids off God knows where again, quit your job so you can be able to meet our schedule for the new class, etc.."
If they call subjecting the four to five hundred "qualified" folks to this "publication", I think they are seriously in trouble. At least the chief regurgitator may be a little nicer guy.
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oldiesman
I remember one of my WOW years, asking my parents to send cash to buy a moped. That was so kewl in the summertime. Another year, a truck crashed a wow sister's car I was driving, and a wow brother came through with his car as a replacement.
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Ham
Oldies, the guys mom paid for the thing for the whole year. This included the actual car payments, insurance, and a modest supply of gas money. Stupid? I am not quite so sure.
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Ham
I suppose I should have included that with the post. All car expenses were paid. He was only expected to take over expenses after the WOW year.
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Ham
Plus he had all the payments, cash in hand. For the whole year. The leadership was aware of all of these details. Insurance paid for the year. If the mom did indeed fall into hard times, it would not have made a bit of difference. Still, they ranted.. you know, yell first, then try to figure out what's really going on later.
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oldiesman
I guess it's a tough call. On the one hand, we went on the program to believe God to meet our needs without necessarily asking our parents for support. On the other, you have a parent willing to buy you a new car that will bless you and your family for the rest of the WOW year. I'd have been blessed with it and thanked God for such a generous parent. I guess others wouldn't.
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Ham
It was not a bribe either. "If you do so and so, I will pay for the car." The lady saw what she perceived a change for the positive in her son's life and wanted to contribute something, out of love. I think the leadership wanted to kick him off the field- somebody higher up still had some common sense.
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houseisarockin
No history for that time frame. But in the past few years had you altered your financial status it certainly was grounds for removal from whatever you were in the process of (WD, WC training, etc). And if not to that end it would have involved being controlled into a rude and belittling meeting of at least one leader present. As I was a part I saw it worsen, regardless of the application. The foundation failed.
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houseisarockin
kewl
:)-->
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Belle
You did, Mr. H.
:D--> They were probably jealous that he a) got a new car and b) had a mom who loved him enough and had enough money to do that for him.
My parents aren't hurting for money, but they worked very hard to be where they are today. I don't ask them for money (ok, I have, but only in dire circumstances) and they don't throw money at me. My daddy is very frugal with his money and does not believe in spoiling his kids. HOWEVER, he also believes that renting when you could be buying is foolish and has disagreed with other non-policy policies of TWI. He paid the closing costs for my ex and I so that we could buy a house. He also paid for us to fly to see them and various vacation expenses so that we could spend time with them, knowing we couldn't go if we had to pay for the whole thing ourselves. Spoiled? I don't think so. I think it's a loving family and an awesome daddy who will do anything he can to get to spend time with his daughter and son-in-law.
Why am I rattling on about this? I caught flak for it on a regular basis and now that I'm divorced it's completely thrown in my face. I think TWI is intimidated by people who are successful and openly disagree with TWI. I think they are jealous of the genuine, close relationships and families that they can't have because of all the fear that is so ingrained in their organization. There's no way you can eradicate that without getting rid of the entire old guard and starting from scratch.
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houseisarockin
It's more you need these classes to retain your spiritual standing, being blessed seemed of less concern to them. Something that changed I noticed.
Also the classes went to 1 hour segments (only 2 segments per night) with break and for the most part included table and chairs. That was a goodie we thought. Geez!
I don't know current charges for classes.
Shipping off children, yup still alive and well.
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Ham
Got to thinking about this one: "this is the age of confrontation". "all that is necessary is a genuine spiritual suspicion". They quoted and revered that junk like God himself came down and wrote it in stone tablets himself.
Just wondering, how many of you ever received an apology along with a statement that they (higher ups doing the "godly" confronting) were WRONG? I can't remember even a single incident. Usually an underling would justify it, "they did it because they love". To he** with whatever effect it had on the one wrongly accused. Just take a deep breath and get over it- "renew your mind".
I am normally a decent human being.. but I can "get somebody by the throat" if I really have to. I can count the number of times I did so in my life on less than half a hand, and then only when it was really needed. But for Martinpukes underlings, they did not seem to be happy unless they could confront the he** out of somebody before breakfast, right or wrong. I think things got to the place that whosoever could scream the loudest was revered as more spiritual.
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Ham
I think the WOW thing got me going on this one.. you know, scream first, figure it out later. Gotta walk in love! When overseers heard the word "loan" it was probably like red to a bull. Flew in a rage- couldn't convince them of anything after that. Still, no apologies, "they are just doing their job.."
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houseisarockin
I agree in the challenge to do all you can do and expect the rest to be handled by someone more able than me. For me that is God. But they took it to control of your finances, this was a step along the way. Sometimes the recognition of how they gained an upper hand on our lives not only helps the greasers here but also the lurkers there.
Your saying you would have been blessed with it was nice to see oldiesman.
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Ham
The other common phrase that went with that: "You just need to be spiritual enough to handle it". Really helps after being screamed at an hour and a half for something you did not do..
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houseisarockin
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houseisarockin
Belle and Mr. Hammeroni, you both got in there while I was not paying attention. I may need to leave before I can reply, so not ignoring you okay.
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Belle
Confronting evil is the loving thing to do....
which might be true if that confronting wasn't done at 100 decibles and with 2 gallons of spit
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houseisarockin
Belle, all the time I have, must head out. First had to say I so admire your stand, it wasn't the easy choice Belle, bless your heart in the fullest way possible.
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Galen
houseisarockin:
"... you will need to fill out a simple financial statement ... statements..."
"I feel that I must point out that I was never asked any of these questions, during my 18 year involvement with TWI. Nor did I ever see anyone else required to submit such."
"The closest that I recall was when someone went WOW, they had to list what debts and financial obligations they had, to prove that they were walking into the WOW program without bringing into it financial obligaitons that would endanger their future WOW-family."
"You left before the 90's didn't you?"
1997.
1991-1993 I was working as a MP and Police Department Chaplain, and I coordinated a Twig. We generally avoided contact with limb [Ct] as much as possible. So long as blue-forms were sent in every week and someone went to a Twig-Coordinators Meeting once a month [or often we skipped 2 or 3 months]. Just as I was transfering, we got a new Limb Coordinator, he wigged out that I had been performing weddings. I asked him if there existed anyone in The Way's Clergy who could do them for the beleivers, he got upset and threw us out. :-)
1993-1997 I was Protestant Lay-Leader onboard USS Casimir Pulaski and later the USS Alaska, my wife did the Twig when I was under, and I did it when I was in-port [bangor, Washington]. We were really focused on ministering to those in our fellowship and on my boat. Again Blue-forms were a big deal, but do them weekly and everything else was moot. I dont think we ever did go to any Twig-Coordinator meetings while there. Once while I was away, a beleiver was painting our living room, and he searched through all our boxes and closets. He found books written by Rev. Cummins and others written by VPW though published at Gartmore House. Mosquido insisted that we burn those books, we refused, so we were thrown out again. [This actually made the third time for us to be 'thrown-out"].
We never did subscribe to The Way Magazine, as I was still trying to get my complimentary subscription from when I took PFAL in 1979. Another fellowship in the area got the weekly tapes, and commonly someone in our fellowship might get the tapes, so sometimes those could pass around.
Over the years coordinating various Twigs, I rarely saw any reason to spend any more time with Limb or Way-Corpse people than I had to. Often they were so negative and demanding.
:-)
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Ham
Galen, that explains a lot. I think thing went sour in a real big way when Ole Craigers finally figured out how to get enough full time corpses to pass around to everybody. His mandates were to be obeyed to the letter, and he figured out a way to get the job done.
In my opinion, MOST of the corspes, at least the ones I met, were expertly schooled in advanced meddling. Their kids would "accidently" find something they would consider incriminating in your house. I can document this, but will let the party have their privacy. The fact that the kids had absolutely no business in your private affairs was irrelevant.
It's pretty despicable to stoop to using your own children as moles and stooges.
Makes me curious about the "believer" that did the painting for you. I can almost hear the justification. "Well, we'll "talk" to him, but we are God's household. Do you think we are supposed to have secrets from each other? What else are you not telling me?" Those are the kind of arguments I have heard. I would not be suprised if that was partly how they treated you.
For us, I think the full time corpse thing was one of the factors that really killed anything good that ministry had going for it that was left. We avoided the rotten apples as long as we could too, and could ignore stupid mandates. The full-time meddlers association made that impossible after a while.
I won't say all corps were bad. My cousin is a corps grad, and she is pretty terrific. She did have enough sense to know when to leave.
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Ham
Belle, now if they confronted with 100 decibels (maybe some real good music) and about two gallons of beer, things would have been different!
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Kinda reminds me of the little "meeting" before I never went back. "We know something is wrong with you. Your only chance is to spill your guts. Now." For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what great evil that I was supposed to be or have done. The guy was just shooting in the dark. I said that basically, "I'll get back to you on it" and left. Last I saw or ever care to see them again. He wasn't real sharp- this was the guy who's claim to fame was eating three times a day without mixing his bread and vegetables. Cripe, if we had any books or stuff from "cop outs" I am sure he would have known. Frustrated, he just started shooting in the dark.
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Ham
They've probably made him a region coordinator. Now wayfers far and wide can be warned of the dangers of mixing bread and vegetables. Funny, among my first thoughts when I met this guy was, "man, how did a guy that has less than an equivalent of 5th grade education make it through the corps?" On top of that, he had a pretty stupid looking smile when he fondly talked about his bread and vegetables..
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