I am so sorry for the pain you suffered. I was a single way corps person who babysat alot during my time at the Indiana campus, and I had no idea all this horrid stuff was going on.
I just liked kids, and spent alot of time with them, just because. I didn't carry a spoon or anything. I just liked spending time with them, and got called on to babysit alot, because I was single.
I am so sorry it was so bad for you. I wish I could so something for you now.
My son described the FWC as "It was like they were the Nazis and we were the Jews." Touch a wall. Get your bottom or leg cracked with a spoon. And yes it was required that we all carry spoons. The staff kids were strictly off limits when I was there. One staff person's two sub-teen boys actually carried .22 rifles right through a playground full of small children. I immediately said without much due respect to these two brats: "HEY!!! GET THE H OUT OF HERE WITH THOSE GUNS!" They promptly reproved me pointing out that their father was Rev. J...N.... and they could do whatever they wanted to.
I did, however, after a while, refuse to carry the damn spoon. The only kid I ever walloped with a spoon while there was my own.
It was an evil operation, in my book, letting those little kids be cared for by someone other than their parents. In fact, we had NO say over ANYTHING regarding our children. I remember us going to a WOG who had the overall dominion of the kids and asking that our son, who was a year older than those in his class at school, be allowed to stay up one hour later, that it was hard for him. (going to bed at 8:00). Nope, no way, he was a 5th grader and as such he would yea verily and of an absolute certainty be in his bed asleep at 8:00 on the dot! No compassion, no interest. This is the rule that thou shalt yea verily obey without question. No concern for the individual child (or adult for that matter).
It always seemed to me that for the most part, and there was one couple I remember that were different at least she was, people in charge of children seemed to not much like children.
I so regret so much that happened those three months. Including the noses I left unpunched!
So much for the - "We're a how to ministry; we teach you the principles and you decide what works for your family."
It must have been really hard for the parents wanting to be good ministers of God and not being able to spend hardly any time with their own kids. I thought family came before the work of the ministry, but that's only when it's convenient for the ministry isn't it?
The poor children must have been afraid of adults and had a hard time learning to trust them, if at all, after they left. :(--> That just breaks my heart. :(-->
I wish so many times that we had seen the complete hipocracy we taught and believed so much sooner than we did. It makes me sick to think of how much kool-aid I drank and couldn't even taste it.
yes, the kids were seperate from the parents, as far as rooms went. Alot of times, kids shared rooms with other kids.
This older kid did do some abusive stuff to me, but it was mostly innocent, nothing major. That was the only incident of that kind of stuff with me, no adults. My parents had their own rooms, but the kids rooms was always in the same hall at least.
When we were not in school, we had to eat lunch with all the Corps. So we heard alot of the lunch time rants and raves. Too much info for young minds, most of the time.
anyways, could go on and on, but people are getting the drift.
yes, greg. b was a total perv, in charge of childrens activites for years.
It was just a mess. Not good for anybody but particularly hard on the kids. I can just imagine how much worse it got in the mid to late 90's. The older kids kind of did their own thing. The little ones got beat on all the time. So wrong.
i heard that a top guy who was in charge of children's fellowship (G*** B*********) was a pervert
Waitaminnit, Reverend Mother Sister Excathie - you're talking about GB?
Was that something you heard from someone who heard it from someone else who heard it from someone else, or was it someone that you consider very credible?
I'm not trying to sound like I'm attacking you here, because I'm not, and wouldn't.
I'm interested in Steve's question, too. That's a serious thing to lightly accuse someone of. Four summers ago my 11 yr old daughter spent 3 days at a camp presided over by guess who. They are with Chris Geer and until last year sent their ABS to Joe Guarinni, by the way.
Daughter had a great time at the camp; the other girls were really nice to her and she assures me nothing bad happened. So I would really like to know if this is real or somebody's "memorex".
Does anyone remember Children's Activities and "directed play"? I had the putrid experience of once being put in charge of this activity. It involved having the littlest ones (and I mean some around 2 years old) sit around a table that they could hardly reach. Each place had a pile of some sort of "play" object - tiddlie winks, blocks, beads, stackable objects, etc. I think my day had plastic objects of various sizes and colors. I sat at the head of the table with my pile, and of course, my spoon. There was NO speaking allowed. I moved one object, and they were all to move the exact same object in the exact way. Any deviation of even the slightest extent was met with a sharp wack! Just picture this and the obvious difficulties with regard to mirroring - across a table! Do they move the object to the right or the left? Up or down? I couldn't even talk to them to explain the movement.
It broke my heart that I had to do this under the watchful eye of the overseer. I had the sweetest little girl sobbing so hard (and silently) that it made me sob inside.
Ditto to Watered Garden and the "unpunched noses" that I left.
Directed Play sounds so hateful. If they tried that in a regular preschool they would be shut down. ( I teach in a developmental preschool.)
I'll bet those kids loved going to school, just to get away from the crazies. Kindergarten must have seemed like a vacation.
I'm so, so glad we got walloped by so many medical bills, all thought of going into the Family Corps got wiped out of our minds. And at the time we thought those bills were an attack of the debbil.
Gosh you guys. Can't you overlook these little matters when you think about how big the Word was moving in people's lives? Kids cry no matter what. When you realize that His kids (and really, they are truly His kids, right?) were surrounded by God's people, endeavoring to bring His matchless Word to a new generation, you can really believe that He healed their little bruised arms and egos. As for the sex stuff, it's a blessing that must be understood in its spiritual context, which is His will for us to live more than abundantly. Natural man has perverted it in such a way that children are deprived of the opportunity to bless their elders in a beautiful way. The Family Corps leadership were (in some cases) blazing a trail of the renewed mind in these key areas of blessing. It's a pity that unbelieving parents and others in a world in darkness would deprive the household of such a blessing. Thank goodness for GB, and Doctor, and other leaders who walk the walk according to the rightly divided Word, no matter what the world says. Amen.
Loy Boy was ranting and raving on some tape about all the sex that was going on between teenagers at one of the ROA in the early 90's. Supposedly some girl had gone to Donna complaining about all the sex, and Loy kicked into action with his manifestation of discerning of spirits.
As I recall he named an animal spirit at work because the couples were letting others watch them.....only the animal kingdom does this I guess.
And the ring leader boy had one of those dreaded '5 star general' spurts too. I can't remember how many of those ' buck private' spurts there were involved.
As I recall there were some lieing and deception going on also.
WOW....now that I think about it, Loy wasn't getting revelation at all....he was talking from experience!!!
I don't know about the pervert part, but I do know that the Mr. B in question was very rough with the teens when he arrived on the scene our last year in the Family Corps. He was a bully when he didn't get instant and complete obedience.
When he kicked (kicked!) my 13-year-old son, I complained loudly about it to him and to Bob M. I told Bob the guy had no business having any kind of oversight of children whatsoever and that he'd better not lay another finger (or foot) on my child ever again.
He never did, but I see from this thread that they kept him around. His a$$ should have been booted off that campus his first year there.
Because I heard some rumors a few years later, I did ask my son if anyone (male or female) in twi, particularly at the Indiana Campus, had ever tried anything sexual with him. He said no, and I know he would have said so if anyone had, because he's very open with me.
The whole situation saddens me. I was pregnant in the FC, '79-'80, but had little knowledge of the mess that was going on in Children's Fellowship. I remember having the sense that C had some educational training, G was just picking it up from C. (Heard that he later took charge of the whole thing, and that bugged me, because I'd thought she was more qualified.)
C taught that things had to be age-appropriate, and correct me if I'm wrong, but she seemed to have a heart for kids. "Directed play" as described by her sounded much more Montessori in nature, not at all the nastiness that it apparently became. My impression of the Mini-Corps was that their time was very structured, and disciplne was firm, but I had no idea that things were so bad.
In fact, I had a glimpze of how people could misinterpret the spoon thing when I observed an elder Corps parent doing homework with her kid, and spanking him whenever he gave the wrong answer. He was trying to do it right, dammit! I told C about it, and she assured me that that was NOT what she taught.
I went on to devote over 20 years to the education field, including whistle-blowing on a couple of people who should never have been in charge of children. Move over, WG and LindaZ, I wanna help you pop a few noses!
I would like to know more about the G*** B******** situation. I have friends that have invited me to send my children to the camp with GB. I have been asked twice and said no twice until I learn more about it.
This information about how the little ones were mistreated in the FC is beyond comprehension.
It is the lowest of the low to do that. I'm so thankful that I was in the wc single. I worked children's camp, but only in the kitchen. I never saw anything wierd but I wasn't around the children very much. I would not have survived the FC. I would never let anyone mistreat or even speak disrespectful in any way to my children. I have allowed people to treat me like garbage, but I would never allow it with my kids. I need to pray for healing for those that were involved and pray for those who are still involved in TWI.
Shaz, you're right. CB had (and probably still has) a huge heart for kids. Our first year in the FC she and another woman, R, ran children's activities, and they were wonderful--qualified and so enthusiastic. All the kids I knew adored them. They were strict and could smell BS a mile away, but they were very, very loving.
Thanks for the info, Linda. So where's the link from her doing good things with the Mini-Corps, to turning it over to G? Was it simply because he was the man? (Barf me.)
And I also want to hear more about the allegations against G.
Linda, this is about the umpteenth thing I've heard that Bob M (and/or D*ttie) knew about and didn't put a stop to. Do you think they were just protecting their royal lifestyle or not strong enough to put a stop to these things?
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Cowgirl
Maaaan, just reading that makes me want to puke!!
Cowgirl
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ex10
thelema
I am so sorry for the pain you suffered. I was a single way corps person who babysat alot during my time at the Indiana campus, and I had no idea all this horrid stuff was going on.
I just liked kids, and spent alot of time with them, just because. I didn't carry a spoon or anything. I just liked spending time with them, and got called on to babysit alot, because I was single.
I am so sorry it was so bad for you. I wish I could so something for you now.
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excathedra
ohmygod how horrible thelema
the children slept away from their parents, right ?
i've never been to that place. weren't the rooms real little (like to fit one miserble nun) for the parents and then the kids all slept together ?
what a f'd up environment for a child growing up
i heard that a top guy who was in charge of children's fellowship (G*** B*********) was a pervert
i am glad this one guy got busted and i'm very sad it took so long. and what about the ones who never get caught. sucks.
(i ADORE your signature)
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Rejoice
Holy Crap!!! Even the little children??? And GB was a pervert???
I'm just speechless! Is GB and wife still in???
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Watered Garden
My son described the FWC as "It was like they were the Nazis and we were the Jews." Touch a wall. Get your bottom or leg cracked with a spoon. And yes it was required that we all carry spoons. The staff kids were strictly off limits when I was there. One staff person's two sub-teen boys actually carried .22 rifles right through a playground full of small children. I immediately said without much due respect to these two brats: "HEY!!! GET THE H OUT OF HERE WITH THOSE GUNS!" They promptly reproved me pointing out that their father was Rev. J...N.... and they could do whatever they wanted to.
I did, however, after a while, refuse to carry the damn spoon. The only kid I ever walloped with a spoon while there was my own.
It was an evil operation, in my book, letting those little kids be cared for by someone other than their parents. In fact, we had NO say over ANYTHING regarding our children. I remember us going to a WOG who had the overall dominion of the kids and asking that our son, who was a year older than those in his class at school, be allowed to stay up one hour later, that it was hard for him. (going to bed at 8:00). Nope, no way, he was a 5th grader and as such he would yea verily and of an absolute certainty be in his bed asleep at 8:00 on the dot! No compassion, no interest. This is the rule that thou shalt yea verily obey without question. No concern for the individual child (or adult for that matter).
It always seemed to me that for the most part, and there was one couple I remember that were different at least she was, people in charge of children seemed to not much like children.
I so regret so much that happened those three months. Including the noses I left unpunched!
WG
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Belle
So much for the - "We're a how to ministry; we teach you the principles and you decide what works for your family."
It must have been really hard for the parents wanting to be good ministers of God and not being able to spend hardly any time with their own kids. I thought family came before the work of the ministry, but that's only when it's convenient for the ministry isn't it?
The poor children must have been afraid of adults and had a hard time learning to trust them, if at all, after they left.
:(--> That just breaks my heart. 
:(-->
I wish so many times that we had seen the complete hipocracy we taught and believed so much sooner than we did. It makes me sick to think of how much kool-aid I drank and couldn't even taste it.
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Thelema
excathedra:
yes, the kids were seperate from the parents, as far as rooms went. Alot of times, kids shared rooms with other kids.
This older kid did do some abusive stuff to me, but it was mostly innocent, nothing major. That was the only incident of that kind of stuff with me, no adults. My parents had their own rooms, but the kids rooms was always in the same hall at least.
When we were not in school, we had to eat lunch with all the Corps. So we heard alot of the lunch time rants and raves. Too much info for young minds, most of the time.
anyways, could go on and on, but people are getting the drift.
yes, greg. b was a total perv, in charge of childrens activites for years.
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Watered Garden
It was just a mess. Not good for anybody but particularly hard on the kids. I can just imagine how much worse it got in the mid to late 90's. The older kids kind of did their own thing. The little ones got beat on all the time. So wrong.
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Steve!
Waitaminnit, Reverend Mother Sister Excathie - you're talking about GB?
Was that something you heard from someone who heard it from someone else who heard it from someone else, or was it someone that you consider very credible?
I'm not trying to sound like I'm attacking you here, because I'm not, and wouldn't.
Reason number 734 for private topics
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johniam
I'm interested in Steve's question, too. That's a serious thing to lightly accuse someone of. Four summers ago my 11 yr old daughter spent 3 days at a camp presided over by guess who. They are with Chris Geer and until last year sent their ABS to Joe Guarinni, by the way.
Daughter had a great time at the camp; the other girls were really nice to her and she assures me nothing bad happened. So I would really like to know if this is real or somebody's "memorex".
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Microbe
Does anyone remember Children's Activities and "directed play"? I had the putrid experience of once being put in charge of this activity. It involved having the littlest ones (and I mean some around 2 years old) sit around a table that they could hardly reach. Each place had a pile of some sort of "play" object - tiddlie winks, blocks, beads, stackable objects, etc. I think my day had plastic objects of various sizes and colors. I sat at the head of the table with my pile, and of course, my spoon. There was NO speaking allowed. I moved one object, and they were all to move the exact same object in the exact way. Any deviation of even the slightest extent was met with a sharp wack! Just picture this and the obvious difficulties with regard to mirroring - across a table! Do they move the object to the right or the left? Up or down? I couldn't even talk to them to explain the movement.
It broke my heart that I had to do this under the watchful eye of the overseer. I had the sweetest little girl sobbing so hard (and silently) that it made me sob inside.
Ditto to Watered Garden and the "unpunched noses" that I left.
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Bramble
Directed Play sounds so hateful. If they tried that in a regular preschool they would be shut down. ( I teach in a developmental preschool.)
I'll bet those kids loved going to school, just to get away from the crazies. Kindergarten must have seemed like a vacation.
I'm so, so glad we got walloped by so many medical bills, all thought of going into the Family Corps got wiped out of our minds. And at the time we thought those bills were an attack of the debbil.
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satori001
Gosh you guys. Can't you overlook these little matters when you think about how big the Word was moving in people's lives? Kids cry no matter what. When you realize that His kids (and really, they are truly His kids, right?) were surrounded by God's people, endeavoring to bring His matchless Word to a new generation, you can really believe that He healed their little bruised arms and egos. As for the sex stuff, it's a blessing that must be understood in its spiritual context, which is His will for us to live more than abundantly. Natural man has perverted it in such a way that children are deprived of the opportunity to bless their elders in a beautiful way. The Family Corps leadership were (in some cases) blazing a trail of the renewed mind in these key areas of blessing. It's a pity that unbelieving parents and others in a world in darkness would deprive the household of such a blessing. Thank goodness for GB, and Doctor, and other leaders who walk the walk according to the rightly divided Word, no matter what the world says. Amen.
I think I feel sick.
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Stayed Too Long
Loy Boy was ranting and raving on some tape about all the sex that was going on between teenagers at one of the ROA in the early 90's. Supposedly some girl had gone to Donna complaining about all the sex, and Loy kicked into action with his manifestation of discerning of spirits.
As I recall he named an animal spirit at work because the couples were letting others watch them.....only the animal kingdom does this I guess.
And the ring leader boy had one of those dreaded '5 star general' spurts too. I can't remember how many of those ' buck private' spurts there were involved.
As I recall there were some lieing and deception going on also.
WOW....now that I think about it, Loy wasn't getting revelation at all....he was talking from experience!!!
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Thelema
satori:
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johniam
I'd like to hear from PMosh and Lindyhopper on this one.
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Linda Z
I don't know about the pervert part, but I do know that the Mr. B in question was very rough with the teens when he arrived on the scene our last year in the Family Corps. He was a bully when he didn't get instant and complete obedience.
When he kicked (kicked!) my 13-year-old son, I complained loudly about it to him and to Bob M. I told Bob the guy had no business having any kind of oversight of children whatsoever and that he'd better not lay another finger (or foot) on my child ever again.
He never did, but I see from this thread that they kept him around. His a$$ should have been booted off that campus his first year there.
Because I heard some rumors a few years later, I did ask my son if anyone (male or female) in twi, particularly at the Indiana Campus, had ever tried anything sexual with him. He said no, and I know he would have said so if anyone had, because he's very open with me.
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shazdancer
The whole situation saddens me. I was pregnant in the FC, '79-'80, but had little knowledge of the mess that was going on in Children's Fellowship. I remember having the sense that C had some educational training, G was just picking it up from C. (Heard that he later took charge of the whole thing, and that bugged me, because I'd thought she was more qualified.)
C taught that things had to be age-appropriate, and correct me if I'm wrong, but she seemed to have a heart for kids. "Directed play" as described by her sounded much more Montessori in nature, not at all the nastiness that it apparently became. My impression of the Mini-Corps was that their time was very structured, and disciplne was firm, but I had no idea that things were so bad.
In fact, I had a glimpze of how people could misinterpret the spoon thing when I observed an elder Corps parent doing homework with her kid, and spanking him whenever he gave the wrong answer. He was trying to do it right, dammit! I told C about it, and she assured me that that was NOT what she taught.
I went on to devote over 20 years to the education field, including whistle-blowing on a couple of people who should never have been in charge of children. Move over, WG and LindaZ, I wanna help you pop a few noses!
Regards,
Shaz
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gladtobeout
I would like to know more about the G*** B******** situation. I have friends that have invited me to send my children to the camp with GB. I have been asked twice and said no twice until I learn more about it.
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gladtobeout
This information about how the little ones were mistreated in the FC is beyond comprehension.
It is the lowest of the low to do that. I'm so thankful that I was in the wc single. I worked children's camp, but only in the kitchen. I never saw anything wierd but I wasn't around the children very much. I would not have survived the FC. I would never let anyone mistreat or even speak disrespectful in any way to my children. I have allowed people to treat me like garbage, but I would never allow it with my kids. I need to pray for healing for those that were involved and pray for those who are still involved in TWI.
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Linda Z
Shaz, you're right. CB had (and probably still has) a huge heart for kids. Our first year in the FC she and another woman, R, ran children's activities, and they were wonderful--qualified and so enthusiastic. All the kids I knew adored them. They were strict and could smell BS a mile away, but they were very, very loving.
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shazdancer
Thanks for the info, Linda. So where's the link from her doing good things with the Mini-Corps, to turning it over to G? Was it simply because he was the man? (Barf me.)
And I also want to hear more about the allegations against G.
Regards,
Shaz
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Belle
Linda, this is about the umpteenth thing I've heard that Bob M (and/or D*ttie) knew about and didn't put a stop to. Do you think they were just protecting their royal lifestyle or not strong enough to put a stop to these things?
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gladtobeout
Are B** and D**** M still in? I haven't kept up.
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