I agree with Shellon. The Word did not cost me anything (such as the persecutions that folks in other countries are going through because they choose to be believers), but twi --- well, that is a different story.
I don't even want to begin to think of "the cost". I'd rather not dredge up old memories. But thanks for asking. :)-->
TWI cost me my first wife. And it cost me a total of about 15 years of my life (a short time compared to some, I realize).
I've known people jailed for their beliefs (Christians living in Muslim countries). I've known of people killed for their beliefs. The word cost me nothing.
Mostly time. Time I might not have had if not for TWI and the word taught. It also cost me a few false friends and a broken heart. Unlike some, I gained much more than I lost from TWI.
Maybe I should have said, what has involvement in the ministry cost. Sorry to drudge up old memories Dmiller.. I just feel sorry for the young folks willing to lay life and liberty on line for that organization. Many have no clue as to what it is really going to cost them.
A degree in Chemistry. Very likely a masters degree. I was at a point in my life that I had no idea where to go. With proper direction, things would have been very different. Add many years of time and ABS down the drain.
With that said, I did end up in a half-way decent career. I met my wife on my WOW year. Have had two kids- they are better than gold; they are ten times better than me. I would not trade all the gold in egypt for them. I can only partially blame the stupid stuff we endured in TWI leading to breakup between me and wife.
Would I have been happier if I ended up with what I thought I really would have liked to have? I cannot answer that question. "Life is like a box of chocalates, you never know what you're gonna get." There are a lot of people that have ended up a lot more miserable than me, and some of them have a heck of a lot more money.
In many cases, I think TWI has made themselves too easy of a target as the reason for some peoples failures. That is their fault. They have truly given reason for "the ministry of the verd" to be blamed. Many times the blame is rightly placed, sometimes not. Of course, the outright fraud, abuse, and other despicable actions in some cases cannot be justified for any reason..
Looking back, I can see God at work, many times IN SPITE OF the stupidity and evil of others, and even of my own at times.
After reading lots of posts, I think I can see that some left Egypt (TWI) with the gold. Others did not- they never found any "gold" there to begin with; some left having received abuse- in some cases criminally. To be on the receiving end of something like that must be a heck of a price to pay for nothing, or less than nothing. I think if I didn't get anything good at all out of it, I would be royally ....ed, and rightly so, considering the cost.
I'm not so sure if the way really cost me anything....All the costs of the way's classes notwithstanding,I'm sure I would have spent my cash on other frivolous things in my youth,like pot or cheap liquor....The only two things I could remember wanting to be before my way years was a baseball player or a Hell's Angel....Since neither of those were going to happen,I think at the time,the way's alternative lifestyle was more appealing to me than the thought of going out and starting a career in the work-a-day world...
Maybe it was the gypsy lifestyle that was appealing to me;the travel light,work part-time on your "earthly job" and full time for God thing,....I don't know...But the way did help me get something out of my system....just not sure what it was...So did the way really cost me,or would I have ended up ....ing away my youth elsewhere?
Strangely,my oldest daughter(who spent her first 15 years in the way)went to college here,teaches school nearby,and for the most part has the rest of her life mapped out already...My other daughter,on the other hand,who remember's very little of the way,keeps fighting off the urge to drop out of college,grow her hair into dredlocks and buy a broken-down Volkswagen bus and travel...And I really don't discourage her...other than to tell her to wait 'til she finishes college...She seems to have the same restlessness that I had at her age...
I'm sure many people sacrificed a lot more for the way than I did,but I could never put a 'cost' on my time spent there because I have no idea where my journey would have taken me otherwise...
So are we dealing with what faith in Christ has cost us, or TWI, or both, or what? I have my own ideas of what I personally gained or lost from TWI, and I have plenty of personal witnesses around me whose faith (unassociated with TWI) has cost them, in line with dmiller's comments about persecution.
My original thought was really "what did involvement in the ministry cost". Faith in Christ, salvation is free if the bible is correct.
I think it is a fair assessment of a product (in this case, what TWI had to offer) to consider what the price is, and weigh it with what actual benefits the product has to offer.
Ironically, these days, they seem to have less and less to offer, while the price apparently is continuing to rise. More commitment, more sacrifice, more money, and for what? The Special in Texas this year is a prime example. How did they reward their most faithful, committed followers? Same drab teachings, stuff you could get out of reading Bullinger if you can't find a PFAL book, and a few assorted topics.
Now they are thinking of redoing the foundational class. You can bet it will not be free for current grads.. more time, more money, shuffle the kids off somewhere, less time with family.. etc.
What are they gonna get? Anything that is really new, or works? Or the same old leftovers, rebaked in the guise of "present truth"?
On top of this, the higher ups will EXPECT the followers to be so thankful and "blessed" because of their "generosity".
I think the cost that most have paid for the product is WAY too high.
Okay. Well my deprogrammers took delight in trying to detail just monetarily what TWI cost me...throwing in not just the relatively small sum I gave, but what I would have had if I had not gone into TWI, the corps, etc. Ignoring of course what I would have spent and given through other means had I not been in TWI.
I wont go into my views on that right now, but I will point out that even if you took their (the deprogrammers') figures, it was a paltry thing copared to what some have lost for their faith...such as my wife's family. Or Paul for that matter.
Lifted Up, I am not claiming that it was all bad either. The corps training actually used to have some good training and teaching from a few dedicated people. They actually had an academic program. Did I receive some benefit from some classes and from a few dedicated people who loved God? Yes, but most of them have been drummed out of the service. Today, TWI has far less to offer.
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Shellon
I don't understand the term 'the word cost me' but twi cost me a few things.
My husbands life
His family
Freedom, even now
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mj412
A life different than the one I have lived for sure.
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dmiller
I agree with Shellon. The Word did not cost me anything (such as the persecutions that folks in other countries are going through because they choose to be believers), but twi --- well, that is a different story.
I don't even want to begin to think of "the cost". I'd rather not dredge up old memories. But thanks for asking.
:)-->
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Pirate1974
I don't know about "the word," but "the way" cost me a very special relationship.
Still ticks me off when I think about it, almost 30 years later.
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markomalley
TWI cost me my first wife. And it cost me a total of about 15 years of my life (a short time compared to some, I realize).
I've known people jailed for their beliefs (Christians living in Muslim countries). I've known of people killed for their beliefs. The word cost me nothing.
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johniam
Mostly time. Time I might not have had if not for TWI and the word taught. It also cost me a few false friends and a broken heart. Unlike some, I gained much more than I lost from TWI.
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def59
PFAl $100
Advances $300
Advance PFAL $450
Wages lost by going WOW instead of College
$200,000 (was planning to study pre-law)
Being Free from Twitville: priceless
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Ham
Maybe I should have said, what has involvement in the ministry cost. Sorry to drudge up old memories Dmiller.. I just feel sorry for the young folks willing to lay life and liberty on line for that organization. Many have no clue as to what it is really going to cost them.
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Belle
TWI cost me:
My self-esteem
Years of my life
My husband
The family I wanted and thought I was going to have
Great true friendships
More money than I care to think about
My ability to trust
My interest in the Bible and anything spiritual
Wow! Such a short list. Why does it feel like I've paid so much more?
:(-->
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papajohn
the word has brought me life.
twi taught me not to take it for granted what people say.
win-win
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oenophile
The Word (according to TWI) has cost me:
22 f*cking years of my life that I can't get back.
Feelings of entrapment
Denying myself the pursuit of passions because they were too "worldly."
Contributed to a divorce.
Way too much money.
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mj412
EXACTLY !!!!! perfect answer !!!! thank you!
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Ham
Thanks for the input folks. What did it cost me?
A degree in Chemistry. Very likely a masters degree. I was at a point in my life that I had no idea where to go. With proper direction, things would have been very different. Add many years of time and ABS down the drain.
With that said, I did end up in a half-way decent career. I met my wife on my WOW year. Have had two kids- they are better than gold; they are ten times better than me. I would not trade all the gold in egypt for them. I can only partially blame the stupid stuff we endured in TWI leading to breakup between me and wife.
Would I have been happier if I ended up with what I thought I really would have liked to have? I cannot answer that question. "Life is like a box of chocalates, you never know what you're gonna get." There are a lot of people that have ended up a lot more miserable than me, and some of them have a heck of a lot more money.
In many cases, I think TWI has made themselves too easy of a target as the reason for some peoples failures. That is their fault. They have truly given reason for "the ministry of the verd" to be blamed. Many times the blame is rightly placed, sometimes not. Of course, the outright fraud, abuse, and other despicable actions in some cases cannot be justified for any reason..
Looking back, I can see God at work, many times IN SPITE OF the stupidity and evil of others, and even of my own at times.
After reading lots of posts, I think I can see that some left Egypt (TWI) with the gold. Others did not- they never found any "gold" there to begin with; some left having received abuse- in some cases criminally. To be on the receiving end of something like that must be a heck of a price to pay for nothing, or less than nothing. I think if I didn't get anything good at all out of it, I would be royally ....ed, and rightly so, considering the cost.
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Ham
If I didn't get the gold- at least I escaped with a sense of humor (at least in my opinion)!
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Shellon
Good point.
My husband lost his life,due in part,to their fecal matter....however, we had a wonderful marriage.
And two amazingly incredible daughters!
TWI was the best and worst thing I ever did and to have that marriage and these children, do I have regrets?
No
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rascal
Leave with the Gold??? They took everything that I had.....stuff they had no right to, damn em.
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GrouchoMarxJr
The "word" has cost me nothing...the bible has always been there to read.
Wierwille's version of the bible cost me $85.
My involvement with twi cost me dearly
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simonzelotes
I'm not so sure if the way really cost me anything....All the costs of the way's classes notwithstanding,I'm sure I would have spent my cash on other frivolous things in my youth,like pot or cheap liquor....The only two things I could remember wanting to be before my way years was a baseball player or a Hell's Angel....Since neither of those were going to happen,I think at the time,the way's alternative lifestyle was more appealing to me than the thought of going out and starting a career in the work-a-day world...
Maybe it was the gypsy lifestyle that was appealing to me;the travel light,work part-time on your "earthly job" and full time for God thing,....I don't know...But the way did help me get something out of my system....just not sure what it was...So did the way really cost me,or would I have ended up ....ing away my youth elsewhere?
Strangely,my oldest daughter(who spent her first 15 years in the way)went to college here,teaches school nearby,and for the most part has the rest of her life mapped out already...My other daughter,on the other hand,who remember's very little of the way,keeps fighting off the urge to drop out of college,grow her hair into dredlocks and buy a broken-down Volkswagen bus and travel...And I really don't discourage her...other than to tell her to wait 'til she finishes college...She seems to have the same restlessness that I had at her age...
I'm sure many people sacrificed a lot more for the way than I did,but I could never put a 'cost' on my time spent there because I have no idea where my journey would have taken me otherwise...
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Lifted Up
So are we dealing with what faith in Christ has cost us, or TWI, or both, or what? I have my own ideas of what I personally gained or lost from TWI, and I have plenty of personal witnesses around me whose faith (unassociated with TWI) has cost them, in line with dmiller's comments about persecution.
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Steve!
Uppity, I'm pretty sure that the intent was "what has your involvement with TWIt cost you?"
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Ham
My original thought was really "what did involvement in the ministry cost". Faith in Christ, salvation is free if the bible is correct.
I think it is a fair assessment of a product (in this case, what TWI had to offer) to consider what the price is, and weigh it with what actual benefits the product has to offer.
Ironically, these days, they seem to have less and less to offer, while the price apparently is continuing to rise. More commitment, more sacrifice, more money, and for what? The Special in Texas this year is a prime example. How did they reward their most faithful, committed followers? Same drab teachings, stuff you could get out of reading Bullinger if you can't find a PFAL book, and a few assorted topics.
Now they are thinking of redoing the foundational class. You can bet it will not be free for current grads.. more time, more money, shuffle the kids off somewhere, less time with family.. etc.
What are they gonna get? Anything that is really new, or works? Or the same old leftovers, rebaked in the guise of "present truth"?
On top of this, the higher ups will EXPECT the followers to be so thankful and "blessed" because of their "generosity".
I think the cost that most have paid for the product is WAY too high.
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Lifted Up
Okay. Well my deprogrammers took delight in trying to detail just monetarily what TWI cost me...throwing in not just the relatively small sum I gave, but what I would have had if I had not gone into TWI, the corps, etc. Ignoring of course what I would have spent and given through other means had I not been in TWI.
I wont go into my views on that right now, but I will point out that even if you took their (the deprogrammers') figures, it was a paltry thing copared to what some have lost for their faith...such as my wife's family. Or Paul for that matter.
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excathedra
i thought "the way" and "the word" were the same
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Ham
Lifted Up, I am not claiming that it was all bad either. The corps training actually used to have some good training and teaching from a few dedicated people. They actually had an academic program. Did I receive some benefit from some classes and from a few dedicated people who loved God? Yes, but most of them have been drummed out of the service. Today, TWI has far less to offer.
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