I was already out by the time Gartmore was set up.
I knew a girl from Bristol who I used to see occasionaly who was still active at the time and she had been to Gartmore. From what I could gather the Way in GB under Geer had decided to separate themselves from the US body after Martindale insisted that monies should start being sent to the US instead of remaining in Europe. This may have occurred after VPWs last visit which was described in Passing of a Patriarch. It probably was actually come to think of it as Martindale would not have come up with that idea with VPW still around.
But since then I have heard nothing. I would like to know what has happened to Robert Wilkinson since then but have not managed to obtain any information. I only knew that Gartmore had been sold when I checked its website.
Just thought you may have heard something as you were closer to the source. The two remaining trustees after John T departing were Robert and Graeme Abernethy they would have had the rights to the Gartmore property as the acting trustees of The Way in Great Britain Limited. Robert has been over to visit Vince Finnegan to teach a few times so he is still about. The Kent's ended up with the books left in inventory to sell. That's about all I know.
Trefor -- perhaps you already know about the Cortright Site, but if not,
THIS PAGE is their link for believers around the world. Maybe someone in the UK would be able to help you finding Robert Wilkinson. (He is not listed on the site).
there was a 7th corps thing in Las Vegas not too long ago. Chris and Nancy Kent came over to visit Valerie and the others. Chris is Barbara's brother, right ?
i'm copying a quote from uncle hairy from the other thread. thought you all would enjoy it
quote:Here's one of my memories of Chris Geer...
I was in residence at Emporia and Geer and his wife were "assigned" there for one reason or another...anyway...I was told to go room to room and tell everybody that a meeting had just been called and everybody was supposed to get there pronto. When I knocked on Geer's door, it was already ajar and I could see inside...as I knocked, Geer, who had his back to me, swung around fast and was holding a hand gun! He had a look on his face as if he was ready to shoot the first thing in sight...he said to me harshly.."What do want?" I told him of the meeting and he just stared at me...no response. His eyes looked as if they were filled with hate and quite frankly, the guy was scary. I turned and walked away as fast as I could...
The guy destroyed TWI. He was the first to really hurt it. VPW hurt it with some of his "off-side activities" but the organization was still somewhat solid when he died. Geer came and for the most part, greedily destroyed it. It took Martindale to destroy the rest of it.
I have 2 comments on this. I was on the phone the first time Geer read POP and I was at the clergy meeting after that when he "confronted" the board of trustees. It seemed like a simple power play, and Geer was clearly winning. But just when he could have stepped in and said "Follow me and I'll get you all back on track" he didn't. Instead he went back to Europe, and basically said - "thanks for the copyrights you guys are on your own. Call if you need me."
I believe if he'd been bolder in trying to take over the whole thing martindale, howard allen and don wierwille would have followed him. But he didn't.
This is not to say he didn't benefit from what he did. He got lots of followers and I'm sure got plenty of money - after all he learned the value of a buck from vpw who was definitely motivated by the dollar.
My second point concerns the comment "He was teh first to really hurt it."
Just because people liked vpw and felt they got some benefit from what he did doesn't mean he didn't do evil. There's a law suit now against WalMart and how they mistreat women employees. The question was asked about what was it like when old man sam was running the show. Turns out the same policies were in effect, but people liked sam more so they didn't object as much. Doesn't mean it was any better - just felt that way.
Not saying VPW was perfect. He did run it better, that is all. Frankly, I feel most of what VPW has taught was stolen, plagiarized, made up, and a lot of it wrong. BUT, he kept the ministry financially solid, (of course by forcing a teaching on tithing...)
I don't believe CG had any legit paper posthumously by VPW. I believe he made that up. Just a power play. He didn't have to do what he did publically to the Way Corps. If the Trustees didn't listen, fine. then leave, separate and have Geer of Great Britain. Leave the rest be. It really began the incredible upheaval.
But I give most of the credit of the Way's demise to LCM. He has to get the prize. The trustees should have dumped him long ago for being incompetant.
But I will agree, VPW was not all that great, either. But he was at least smart enough not to go on a nationwide witchhunt.
quote:But I give most of the credit of the Way's demise to LCM. He has to get the prize. The trustees should have dumped him long ago for being incompetant.
Unfortunately, the system that Wierwille set up didn't allow for the Trustees to do anything.
Wierwille gradually took on the role of "THE Man of God", which put him in a position of unquestioned power. When he stepped down and (literally) annointed Martindale as his replacement, with all the symbolism and ceremony, the implication was that Martindale inherited Wierwille's authority. It wasn't until the Allen lawsuit that he had gone too far even for the other Trustees and had to be replaced.
I agree with what you guys are all saying but here's what I don't get...Martindale was totally full of himself...He took the criticism of all the top guys there and shook it off...he ran off the likes of JAL and RD and VF and BR and all the other "heavies". He wouldn't listen to anybody...afterall, he was the annointed one, the new mog! All of a sudden Geer shows up in town and Martindale wilts like a 90 pound weakling on the beach. It seems to me that Geer pulled off what nobody else could and IMHO, Geer was nobody special. How is it that LCM cowtowed to Geer in the first place?
he probably bought into the thing that geer was bringing messages from the man of god, hairy
geer is pretty slick, a psychological manipulator
I agree completely. Add to that the fact that Martindale was (is) very unstable phsycologically. Not that the other players were healthy by any means, but he may have been the most unstable.
Remember we look back at what happened and try to figure out some logic, reasons or motivation. But when it was happening these people were reacting from their inner emotional traumas - not playing out some methodical, logical plan. Regardless of what they said to justify it even to themselves.
I think LCM cowtowed to CG because he really did believe CG was getting revelation from God. Actually, one of the other top region leaders at HQ was in constant contact with CG and had wrote a missive to CG detailing what was going on. The BOD didn't know about this. So CG would call and gee, somehow magically, or in their minds, by revelation, knew what was going on.
The BOD were meeting daily in the little twig they had, I forget what it was called - someone will remember. CG was communicating his "revelation" to them and they followed and believed it. Eventually they found out what was happening and I think that's when they pulled away from CG.
Also, for those who have seen CG in action, he is a different type guy. He has a sadistic mean streak. I always think of him, as kind of a Hitler henchman - there is just something very cold about him. He can be intimidating. Plus, he was probably, with the exception of HA, VP's best friend. They were truly two peas in a pod. CG had a relationship with VP that no one else had. So every assumed it must be spiritual, that CG was VP's true spiritual heir. Couple that with his "revelation" he was giving to the BOD and his extreme closeness to VP, I see why they followed him without question for a while.
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Trefor Heywood
WhiteDove:
I was already out by the time Gartmore was set up.
I knew a girl from Bristol who I used to see occasionaly who was still active at the time and she had been to Gartmore. From what I could gather the Way in GB under Geer had decided to separate themselves from the US body after Martindale insisted that monies should start being sent to the US instead of remaining in Europe. This may have occurred after VPWs last visit which was described in Passing of a Patriarch. It probably was actually come to think of it as Martindale would not have come up with that idea with VPW still around.
But since then I have heard nothing. I would like to know what has happened to Robert Wilkinson since then but have not managed to obtain any information. I only knew that Gartmore had been sold when I checked its website.
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WhiteDove
Trefer
Just thought you may have heard something as you were closer to the source. The two remaining trustees after John T departing were Robert and Graeme Abernethy they would have had the rights to the Gartmore property as the acting trustees of The Way in Great Britain Limited. Robert has been over to visit Vince Finnegan to teach a few times so he is still about. The Kent's ended up with the books left in inventory to sell. That's about all I know.
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dmiller
Trefor -- perhaps you already know about the Cortright Site, but if not,
THIS PAGE is their link for believers around the world. Maybe someone in the UK would be able to help you finding Robert Wilkinson. (He is not listed on the site).
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excathedra
there was a 7th corps thing in Las Vegas not too long ago. Chris and Nancy Kent came over to visit Valerie and the others. Chris is Barbara's brother, right ?
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WhiteDove
Trefor as Ex said that would be your best bet for finding Robert here is a link from the cortright page for them.
http://www.redbay.com/ekklesia/nkent.htm
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Radar OReilly
Barbie's brother is Chris Lagey (formerly 3rd corps.)
Seems to me that John Shroyer has been over to England and met with the Kents. Check with cffm.org, maybe they can help?
ror
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excathedra
sorry i wasn't clear; i meant chris kent is barbara wilkinson's brother.
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Radar OReilly
Exxie,
Too many Chris and Barbara-s in this conversation?>??????
radar
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excathedra
yeah you're right radar !!!!
i'm copying a quote from uncle hairy from the other thread. thought you all would enjoy it
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My3Cents
I have 2 comments on this. I was on the phone the first time Geer read POP and I was at the clergy meeting after that when he "confronted" the board of trustees. It seemed like a simple power play, and Geer was clearly winning. But just when he could have stepped in and said "Follow me and I'll get you all back on track" he didn't. Instead he went back to Europe, and basically said - "thanks for the copyrights you guys are on your own. Call if you need me."
I believe if he'd been bolder in trying to take over the whole thing martindale, howard allen and don wierwille would have followed him. But he didn't.
This is not to say he didn't benefit from what he did. He got lots of followers and I'm sure got plenty of money - after all he learned the value of a buck from vpw who was definitely motivated by the dollar.
My second point concerns the comment "He was teh first to really hurt it."
Just because people liked vpw and felt they got some benefit from what he did doesn't mean he didn't do evil. There's a law suit now against WalMart and how they mistreat women employees. The question was asked about what was it like when old man sam was running the show. Turns out the same policies were in effect, but people liked sam more so they didn't object as much. Doesn't mean it was any better - just felt that way.
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excathedra
you got that right my3
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igotout
When reading that Emporia story, one of my favorite movies, Full Metal Jacket, comes to mind, ha.
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tomtuttle
I knew it!! Mr. Belerker !!!!
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excathedra
was there a bus driver in full metal jacket ???
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Eagle
My3cents:
Not saying VPW was perfect. He did run it better, that is all. Frankly, I feel most of what VPW has taught was stolen, plagiarized, made up, and a lot of it wrong. BUT, he kept the ministry financially solid, (of course by forcing a teaching on tithing...)
I don't believe CG had any legit paper posthumously by VPW. I believe he made that up. Just a power play. He didn't have to do what he did publically to the Way Corps. If the Trustees didn't listen, fine. then leave, separate and have Geer of Great Britain. Leave the rest be. It really began the incredible upheaval.
But I give most of the credit of the Way's demise to LCM. He has to get the prize. The trustees should have dumped him long ago for being incompetant.
But I will agree, VPW was not all that great, either. But he was at least smart enough not to go on a nationwide witchhunt.
Good Lord.
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Oakspear
Wierwille gradually took on the role of "THE Man of God", which put him in a position of unquestioned power. When he stepped down and (literally) annointed Martindale as his replacement, with all the symbolism and ceremony, the implication was that Martindale inherited Wierwille's authority. It wasn't until the Allen lawsuit that he had gone too far even for the other Trustees and had to be replaced.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I agree with what you guys are all saying but here's what I don't get...Martindale was totally full of himself...He took the criticism of all the top guys there and shook it off...he ran off the likes of JAL and RD and VF and BR and all the other "heavies". He wouldn't listen to anybody...afterall, he was the annointed one, the new mog! All of a sudden Geer shows up in town and Martindale wilts like a 90 pound weakling on the beach. It seems to me that Geer pulled off what nobody else could and IMHO, Geer was nobody special. How is it that LCM cowtowed to Geer in the first place?
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excathedra
he probably bought into the thing that geer was bringing messages from the man of god, hairy
geer is pretty slick, a psychological manipulator
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My3Cents
I agree completely. Add to that the fact that Martindale was (is) very unstable phsycologically. Not that the other players were healthy by any means, but he may have been the most unstable.
Remember we look back at what happened and try to figure out some logic, reasons or motivation. But when it was happening these people were reacting from their inner emotional traumas - not playing out some methodical, logical plan. Regardless of what they said to justify it even to themselves.
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Sunesis
I think LCM cowtowed to CG because he really did believe CG was getting revelation from God. Actually, one of the other top region leaders at HQ was in constant contact with CG and had wrote a missive to CG detailing what was going on. The BOD didn't know about this. So CG would call and gee, somehow magically, or in their minds, by revelation, knew what was going on.
The BOD were meeting daily in the little twig they had, I forget what it was called - someone will remember. CG was communicating his "revelation" to them and they followed and believed it. Eventually they found out what was happening and I think that's when they pulled away from CG.
Also, for those who have seen CG in action, he is a different type guy. He has a sadistic mean streak. I always think of him, as kind of a Hitler henchman - there is just something very cold about him. He can be intimidating. Plus, he was probably, with the exception of HA, VP's best friend. They were truly two peas in a pod. CG had a relationship with VP that no one else had. So every assumed it must be spiritual, that CG was VP's true spiritual heir. Couple that with his "revelation" he was giving to the BOD and his extreme closeness to VP, I see why they followed him without question for a while.
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Ham
Probably told ole Craigers what was going on "in the Kings bedchamber". Of course anybody with a quarter of a brain could have figured that out..
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igotout
Sunesis - this came to mind when I read your post. Ha!
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excathedra
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Ham
Ex- what I meant was that Gartmoor Geer probably told ole Craigers what was going on in Craigers bedchamber. Sorry, too many pronouns..
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