Greek2me could confirm or deny this, but it's my ubderstanding that Greek people speak, read & write Greek quite fluently. Funny, it hasn't made them a bit more spiritual.
those corps night teachings. hours and hours and hours and hours on a word ? weeks and weeks and weeks on a verse ? months and months and months on a chapter ?
OHMYGOD at least he got to sit there and sip dambui. we got in trouble for falling asleep.
quote:Greek2me could confirm or deny this, but it's my ubderstanding that Greek people speak, read & write Greek quite fluently. Funny, it hasn't made them a bit more spiritual.
"Biblical research" is supposedly the cornerstone of twi.......yet, its ripe with fraud, adultery, scandal, spiritual abuse, law suits, etc.
But then.......twi doesn't profess to empower one for Christian living. They subscribe to "the one true householed"......and that's exactly what they've got. :D-->
quote:OHMYGOD at least he got to sit there and sip dambui. we got in trouble for falling asleep.
ex, so true.......and sobering, to those of us who sat in the mog's teachings.
it is easy for us to say this ya know a good share of us has spent how many years in study . now.
consider a person who loves God yet really doesnt know what the bible may offer for a solution or a answer or the story, what ever term you want to describe this knowledge many here at grease spot assume .
will I ever see my mom who died again?
am I being punished by God for something wrong I did?
do I need to go to church to pray? for God to hear me?
does God love and trust the Minister more than me?
of course Im not addressing those here who reject God . it doesnt matter to you.
Im talking to those who have recieved comfort and joy from the scripture .
I would NEVER trade my knowledge of what the scripture says for anything even my own children.. no I wouldnt. it is a life blood to me it is serious life style.. it is the peae I have within.
sure I know christ teaches and we have Holy spirit that is nice but how did ya learn about that holy spirit hmmm? your bought the ticket from somwhere..
do I think knowledge of scripture is needed? YES. for what is each persons determination and choice but Im convinced it is the only doctrine that has lasted thousands of years for a reason.
and the reason is big.
I truly believe when Im the one trying to explain to somone how they will see their loved one again in the kingdom, or so racked with guilt and shame they can no longer pray to a God who loves them it is the VERY words He has written that heals their broken heart.
I seldom agrue scripture I find it ironic those who want it discussed and rehashed and investigated the most here on Grease spot can also be the very ones who do not think it may be all that defined. to me it truly is like life or death.
I ask you to go speak to someone who is in need of God , who doesnt know what the bible may have for answers who asks YOU to help them. what do you say? YOUR life experience? maybe a couple of chapter and verse stories of deliverence to a better life or hope but make sure you say it may be a lie or written poorly.. some help you are.
we who have fallen from the cult take the bible on the wrong path of academics and strife and competition of who knows what that is so twi. the bible gives life and hope and peace and the greastest story ever known to mankind.
1) MJ412, I couldn't say it better; there is comfort in the scriptures, long and short term, not by making them mean whatever one wants them to mean, but by rightly dividing them.
2) If someone is emotionally distraught, THAT's not the time to pound the accuracy of the word in someone's head. They need love, they need a hug, or what amounts to it. Remember the one liner...they won't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I think TWI got that one right, even though as time went by they practiced it less and less.
When Im "distraught" the scriptures is what brings me relieve .
I never "pounded" scripture , nor have I been "pounded" . In my hearts of hearts it does not make a difference to me if somone choses to believe what the bible says or not.. I love because I am loved.
LOL! So many good points on this thread....and y'all have such great ways of making those points,too.
Ex, if we could sneak in our own flask, could we drink with him? But then again, we can't drink during those meetings & Gawd forbid we should have to go to the bathroom!
quote: Yes, I appreciate the nuances and elaboration in the Greek language.......but honestly, so much of Christian living is simply walking in love.
skyrider, that says it all imo! TWIts don't know jack about walking in love. They are real good at putting their fork down between bites, stringing chairs & packing a u-haul, but they don't know jack about love.
I think that sky has it right, the *fruit* exhibited by this ministry who claimed to know the *biblelikeithadn`tbeenknownsincethefirstcentury* shows that apparenty, the *knowledge* sure wasn`t a very effective aid to people in becoming siritual....matter fact...many folks, the more scriptures supposedly mastered, the further they decended into spiritual degredation and whoredom.....
Furthermore, I feel that in my case, as in many, the knowledge puffed up n made us so arrogant that tone either couldn`t hear, or was able to effectively ignore the voice of God.
We assuaged our conscience by making ourselves believe that *studying* was going to be the key to spritual growth......one look at the results, I believe exhibits the falacy of that attiude........
Personally, I think that all of that studying became a distraction from our real responsibilities, as well as justified in our minds, the spiritual inadequacies so that we didn`t have to make the tough decisions and efforts to change.
Scriptures, imo are a tool to point us in the right direction....to achieving our own personal walk and growth with God..never inteded to be an end all be all in and of itself.
In spite of myself and my experience, or any redefined mutations in my ongoing spiritual odyssey...I find I cannot help but speak about basic God and Jesus Christ 101 when sorting things thru, or when responding to others' questons.
How many "alsos" is rarely a topic...lol...I dechomaied that stuff and lambanoed that stuff to the attic of my mind. :)-->
Thessalonians is a real bracer and comfort, often...and I bank on those biblical passages (perceived to be truths) that I learned/remember.
When I pray it is often for the desire to desire the things of God.
Sounds strange to me also. I would NEVER trade my children for ANYTHING (if I had them).
Having a knowledge of the Bible just isn't as important to me as having an honest heart and honest relationship with God and other people. I guess I'm not a Bible worshipper anymore. I believe it's God's Word, but I don't put the main emphasis on it anymore like I did in twi.
I think the Bible worship came from one verse: God magnified his word above his name. Was it to be taken literally?
quote:I would NEVER trade my knowledge of what the scripture says for anything even my own children.. no I wouldnt.
i find that statement odd
That is a very odd statement. I would hope that if the situation ever arose, I would lay my own life down for my children, much less anything that I knew.
I find this statement REALLY ODD, and I do not have any children. What I do have is a lifetime of experience with a cult, and what that has taught me is that there is no such thing as BLACK AND WHITE with God.
If you are the type of parent that is so sure that what you have been taught, that you would choose that over your own flesh and blood.....God help you, God Save you, God forgive you.
The one thing I have learned is that there is no such thing as an absolute.....you can ALWAYS BE WRONG. Your family, your children...they are the true constant.
Let me add......IMO an understanding of basic truths in scripture open the door for salvation, righteousness, comfort, exhortation, etc.
BUT......the "biblical accuracy" approach to Christian living as twi uses it to micromanage every person and every detail was never God's intent. Life is too varied and complex for one mog to sit on "twi's throne" and dictate specifics.
Some of the greatest truths (revelations) from Jesus Christ are found in the gospel of John....given to ONE INDIVIDUAL.
Twi's approach is one of a multi-level hierarchy where a score of "leaders" know all the ins-and-outs of a specific incident. Too much bureacracy, too much centralization, too much groupy-thinky.
That was the whole twi mindset though wasn`t it? Nothing was more important than our knowledge of the scripture....no, not even our children...(who funny nuff, were biblically declared to be a GIFT from God)....Sounds like idolotry in the extreme to me.
Radar, your instincts are good....that is the true mindset of any good parent....We are designed to function that way....
Even the brute animals have better parenting skills than we did in twi :-(
Did you guys hear about the teaching vp did when they thought the commies might take over the usa?
I was told that he said (in synopsis) that you ... (the corpes) were responsible to carry the word to the next generation...and if that meant sacraficing your kids, in order to stay alive...it was your duty before God to do so....that should`ve raised so many alarm bells...and that it didn`t raises alarm bells now.
I wouldnt kill my children but if it was betwen the truth of the bible or having children I would chose the scripture.
it was written odd. Im saying it is a very dear thing to me as dear as my children are and in the importance for mankind and helping others and changing the world the bible sure is a more sure bet in life .
nothing about giving up my kids or being a brute or any other twists you people want to put in it.
thankfully God loves children and that is why he created mankind in the first place so the choice would never be as such. the bible is just as important to me as my children if not more, that is not to trade one for the other i am so blessed I can have both !
My poor ex-husband gave up his family for "the truth of the bible" as you so put it, mj. He gave up every relationship he had with hs parents, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, etc.
He chose TWI and their "truth of the bible" as you put it, over family, blood relationships and me, his wife who loved him more than any scriptures. He is now alone with nothing but his d@mn scriptures and people who don't really care about him, just his money and being able to control his life.
He doesn't have the kids he wanted to have because he believes what TWI says about the wife needing to stay at home with the kids. He knows he would never be able to afford his wife to be a stay at home mom, so he convinced himself that he didn't want to have kids. He's given up so much in the name of "the truth" that he will never be truly hapy.
Oh I have children and we all live in the same town and I have grands . Im very blessed thank you.
My God gave his only Son not I . He wouldnt ever ask me maybe Abraham but He dint did he? I do not Think the truth of the scriptures take away our ability to love they make a family whole and well and blessed.
it isnt a either or thing at all.
why would any person who knows the love of God not love his own family ? Your ex may have problems. but I do think it is a good thing when people can control their own life. I know god says a man is blessed when he has a quiver full of children ect. many scriptures brag on family and having children be fruitful and mutiply etc. the mystery truly does live within the family.
Yeah, even 20-25 yrs ago some people in TWI over emphasized biblical accuracy just so THEY would look like the ones with all the answers, so they could control every conversation, etc. Funny, I thought egotism was taboo in TWI.
The concept of biblical accuracy is OK. Take, for instance, Acts 4:12. There is no other name (Jesus the Christ) given among men by which we must be saved. I don't need to check greek to understand that; it's simple and either it's accurate or it isn't. I would not back down on that just to please my kids, but that doesn't mean I don't love them. I wouldn't back down on some of the election issues either.
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TheEvan
Greek2me could confirm or deny this, but it's my ubderstanding that Greek people speak, read & write Greek quite fluently. Funny, it hasn't made them a bit more spiritual.
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George Aar
But Evan, you've still got to have the PFAL secret decoder ring.
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excathedra
those corps night teachings. hours and hours and hours and hours on a word ? weeks and weeks and weeks on a verse ? months and months and months on a chapter ?
OHMYGOD at least he got to sit there and sip dambui. we got in trouble for falling asleep.
priceless ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haLink to comment
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skyrider
"Biblical research" is supposedly the cornerstone of twi.......yet, its ripe with fraud, adultery, scandal, spiritual abuse, law suits, etc.
But then.......twi doesn't profess to empower one for Christian living. They subscribe to "the one true householed"......and that's exactly what they've got.
:D-->
ex, so true.......and sobering, to those of us who sat in the mog's teachings.
hours and hours and hours of WASTED TIME.
skyrider
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mj412
it is easy for us to say this ya know a good share of us has spent how many years in study . now.
consider a person who loves God yet really doesnt know what the bible may offer for a solution or a answer or the story, what ever term you want to describe this knowledge many here at grease spot assume .
will I ever see my mom who died again?
am I being punished by God for something wrong I did?
do I need to go to church to pray? for God to hear me?
does God love and trust the Minister more than me?
of course Im not addressing those here who reject God . it doesnt matter to you.
Im talking to those who have recieved comfort and joy from the scripture .
I would NEVER trade my knowledge of what the scripture says for anything even my own children.. no I wouldnt. it is a life blood to me it is serious life style.. it is the peae I have within.
sure I know christ teaches and we have Holy spirit that is nice but how did ya learn about that holy spirit hmmm? your bought the ticket from somwhere..
do I think knowledge of scripture is needed? YES. for what is each persons determination and choice but Im convinced it is the only doctrine that has lasted thousands of years for a reason.
and the reason is big.
I truly believe when Im the one trying to explain to somone how they will see their loved one again in the kingdom, or so racked with guilt and shame they can no longer pray to a God who loves them it is the VERY words He has written that heals their broken heart.
I seldom agrue scripture I find it ironic those who want it discussed and rehashed and investigated the most here on Grease spot can also be the very ones who do not think it may be all that defined. to me it truly is like life or death.
I ask you to go speak to someone who is in need of God , who doesnt know what the bible may have for answers who asks YOU to help them. what do you say? YOUR life experience? maybe a couple of chapter and verse stories of deliverence to a better life or hope but make sure you say it may be a lie or written poorly.. some help you are.
we who have fallen from the cult take the bible on the wrong path of academics and strife and competition of who knows what that is so twi. the bible gives life and hope and peace and the greastest story ever known to mankind.
it is HIS story and IM sticking to it.
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JustThinking
That TWI couldn't teach "Biblical Accuracy approach to Christian living" doesn't mean it's pointless.
It simply means that trying to get it from TWI is pointless.
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johniam
There's two sides to this coin:
1) MJ412, I couldn't say it better; there is comfort in the scriptures, long and short term, not by making them mean whatever one wants them to mean, but by rightly dividing them.
2) If someone is emotionally distraught, THAT's not the time to pound the accuracy of the word in someone's head. They need love, they need a hug, or what amounts to it. Remember the one liner...they won't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I think TWI got that one right, even though as time went by they practiced it less and less.
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mj412
When Im "distraught" the scriptures is what brings me relieve .
I never "pounded" scripture , nor have I been "pounded" . In my hearts of hearts it does not make a difference to me if somone choses to believe what the bible says or not.. I love because I am loved.
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Belle
LOL! So many good points on this thread....and y'all have such great ways of making those points,too.
Ex, if we could sneak in our own flask, could we drink with him? But then again, we can't drink during those meetings & Gawd forbid we should have to go to the bathroom!
skyrider, that says it all imo! TWIts don't know jack about walking in love. They are real good at putting their fork down between bites, stringing chairs & packing a u-haul, but they don't know jack about love.
TheEvan, you are too funny!
:D-->
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rascal
I think that sky has it right, the *fruit* exhibited by this ministry who claimed to know the *biblelikeithadn`tbeenknownsincethefirstcentury* shows that apparenty, the *knowledge* sure wasn`t a very effective aid to people in becoming siritual....matter fact...many folks, the more scriptures supposedly mastered, the further they decended into spiritual degredation and whoredom.....
Furthermore, I feel that in my case, as in many, the knowledge puffed up n made us so arrogant that tone either couldn`t hear, or was able to effectively ignore the voice of God.
We assuaged our conscience by making ourselves believe that *studying* was going to be the key to spritual growth......one look at the results, I believe exhibits the falacy of that attiude........
Personally, I think that all of that studying became a distraction from our real responsibilities, as well as justified in our minds, the spiritual inadequacies so that we didn`t have to make the tough decisions and efforts to change.
Scriptures, imo are a tool to point us in the right direction....to achieving our own personal walk and growth with God..never inteded to be an end all be all in and of itself.
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MATILDA
In spite of myself and my experience, or any redefined mutations in my ongoing spiritual odyssey...I find I cannot help but speak about basic God and Jesus Christ 101 when sorting things thru, or when responding to others' questons.
How many "alsos" is rarely a topic...lol...I dechomaied that stuff and lambanoed that stuff to the attic of my mind.
:)-->
Thessalonians is a real bracer and comfort, often...and I bank on those biblical passages (perceived to be truths) that I learned/remember.
When I pray it is often for the desire to desire the things of God.
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excathedra
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Nottawayfer
Sounds strange to me also. I would NEVER trade my children for ANYTHING (if I had them).
Having a knowledge of the Bible just isn't as important to me as having an honest heart and honest relationship with God and other people. I guess I'm not a Bible worshipper anymore. I believe it's God's Word, but I don't put the main emphasis on it anymore like I did in twi.
I think the Bible worship came from one verse: God magnified his word above his name. Was it to be taken literally?
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TheInvisibleDan
That is a very odd statement. I would hope that if the situation ever arose, I would lay my own life down for my children, much less anything that I knew.
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Radar OReilly
I find this statement REALLY ODD, and I do not have any children. What I do have is a lifetime of experience with a cult, and what that has taught me is that there is no such thing as BLACK AND WHITE with God.
If you are the type of parent that is so sure that what you have been taught, that you would choose that over your own flesh and blood.....God help you, God Save you, God forgive you.
The one thing I have learned is that there is no such thing as an absolute.....you can ALWAYS BE WRONG. Your family, your children...they are the true constant.
Radar (not speaking from parental experience.)
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skyrider
Let me add......IMO an understanding of basic truths in scripture open the door for salvation, righteousness, comfort, exhortation, etc.
BUT......the "biblical accuracy" approach to Christian living as twi uses it to micromanage every person and every detail was never God's intent. Life is too varied and complex for one mog to sit on "twi's throne" and dictate specifics.
Some of the greatest truths (revelations) from Jesus Christ are found in the gospel of John....given to ONE INDIVIDUAL.
Twi's approach is one of a multi-level hierarchy where a score of "leaders" know all the ins-and-outs of a specific incident. Too much bureacracy, too much centralization, too much groupy-thinky.
Twi's approach......is seriously flawed.
skyrider
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rascal
That was the whole twi mindset though wasn`t it? Nothing was more important than our knowledge of the scripture....no, not even our children...(who funny nuff, were biblically declared to be a GIFT from God)....Sounds like idolotry in the extreme to me.
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Radar OReilly
Yes Cathy, you are right. That was the complete mind set.....the standard....and at this point in my life, WRONG.
ror
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rascal
Radar, your instincts are good....that is the true mindset of any good parent....We are designed to function that way....
Even the brute animals have better parenting skills than we did in twi :-(
Did you guys hear about the teaching vp did when they thought the commies might take over the usa?
I was told that he said (in synopsis) that you ... (the corpes) were responsible to carry the word to the next generation...and if that meant sacraficing your kids, in order to stay alive...it was your duty before God to do so....that should`ve raised so many alarm bells...and that it didn`t raises alarm bells now.
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mj412
I wouldnt kill my children but if it was betwen the truth of the bible or having children I would chose the scripture.
it was written odd. Im saying it is a very dear thing to me as dear as my children are and in the importance for mankind and helping others and changing the world the bible sure is a more sure bet in life .
nothing about giving up my kids or being a brute or any other twists you people want to put in it.
thankfully God loves children and that is why he created mankind in the first place so the choice would never be as such. the bible is just as important to me as my children if not more, that is not to trade one for the other i am so blessed I can have both !
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Belle
My poor ex-husband gave up his family for "the truth of the bible" as you so put it, mj. He gave up every relationship he had with hs parents, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, etc.
He chose TWI and their "truth of the bible" as you put it, over family, blood relationships and me, his wife who loved him more than any scriptures. He is now alone with nothing but his d@mn scriptures and people who don't really care about him, just his money and being able to control his life.
He doesn't have the kids he wanted to have because he believes what TWI says about the wife needing to stay at home with the kids. He knows he would never be able to afford his wife to be a stay at home mom, so he convinced himself that he didn't want to have kids. He's given up so much in the name of "the truth" that he will never be truly hapy.
I truly feel sorry for people like you.
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mj412
Oh I have children and we all live in the same town and I have grands . Im very blessed thank you.
My God gave his only Son not I . He wouldnt ever ask me maybe Abraham but He dint did he? I do not Think the truth of the scriptures take away our ability to love they make a family whole and well and blessed.
it isnt a either or thing at all.
why would any person who knows the love of God not love his own family ? Your ex may have problems. but I do think it is a good thing when people can control their own life. I know god says a man is blessed when he has a quiver full of children ect. many scriptures brag on family and having children be fruitful and mutiply etc. the mystery truly does live within the family.
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Goey
Overemphasis upon "biblical accuracy" results mostly in anal retentiveness, dogmatism and assholism.
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johniam
Yeah, even 20-25 yrs ago some people in TWI over emphasized biblical accuracy just so THEY would look like the ones with all the answers, so they could control every conversation, etc. Funny, I thought egotism was taboo in TWI.
The concept of biblical accuracy is OK. Take, for instance, Acts 4:12. There is no other name (Jesus the Christ) given among men by which we must be saved. I don't need to check greek to understand that; it's simple and either it's accurate or it isn't. I would not back down on that just to please my kids, but that doesn't mean I don't love them. I wouldn't back down on some of the election issues either.
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