I think Paul would "get involved" more and complain about individuals on a very personal level.
I think Paul ministry was founded on the forgivness of Jesus Christ!!!!!!
Pual had a great amount of religous pride so far as killing those who where christians and not "good enough" for God.
He thought he was right and he could not have been more wrong .
I have killed no one (so far so good) but I have woke from a guilty error that rings in my mind like a tape that wont end when I realized I was wrong about somone and hurt them.
I can only imagine how Paul sought forgivness when he realized what he had done.
being forgiven and the release of the guilt my wrong has brought has made it so much faster and easier to forgive anotherin life!
who can bear that? Paul did . Jesus never wronged anyone yet He knew God so well He did the right thing. good for jesus christ that is why he is King of Kings YET I admire those of us who can do the big OH MY GOD IM so sorry and recover to allow another the same mercy in our life.
Paul would have asked alot more questions I think try to get to the bottom of the situation try to learn the dynamics of what was going on with people before he "understood " and forgive anyone.
But this I know Paul would forgive because he himself considered himself the chief of sinner, and knew the goodness of forgivness on a very personal level.
Seems pretty clear to me he was a follower of Jesus an Apostle(Shlika) a doulos who carries a communication from his master or ruler. One who is sent,a messenger,a legate,a representative who can only communicate the message from the master who sent it.
Do you really think he just made up some new doctrine different from Jesus?
I don't know the answer to your question, Jim. I'll have to think about that.
When I saw the title to this thread I thought it was going to be about how the TWIts lauded Paul as more important than Jesus. TWIts ask "What would Paul do?" and laugh at the people who ask, "What would Jesus do?"
Remember Craig going off on all the WWJD hoopla going on a while back? The key questions for TWIts have nothing to do with Jesus, but with Paul and the wc. "What would my BC do about this?" "What would my RC say?"
Disgusting. I'm ashamed to have ever thought that way, but I did.
of course Paul was a Servant of Jesus after his conversion yet he was a person different than Jesus how he handled situation the manner in which he thought the way he spoke , how he reacted etc was certainly different than Jesus .
the church was forming under paul's leadership, with a new risen christ as the head. Jesus had a completely different focus altogeher and the revelationship and what the people had been through was completly diferent so naturaly Paul would have to incorporate new ways and means of dealing with the information and teaching it to the christians.
Jesus for one had a reputation of a healer and a rabbi and a all around good guy whereas Paul was a brutal killer of those he was about to address umm kind of feels like a new spin would be needed doesnt it now?
It is pretty easy to spot Paul's pharisaic background in his boastings and in his critical mindset often found in his writings. Paul pretty much was like the rest of us. He had his human frailties but tried to follow Jesus' example and often came up short just like us.
He exquisitely spoke to us of God's grace, love and forgiveness as well as His eternal purpose. He also wrote that "the letter kills but the spirit gives life." It is a pity that teachers and writers down through the centuries have parsed his letters in order to construct their version of the logos of God.
Yo wine man, certainly you jest. Paul was a murderor, a killer~~~ you blow that off as if Paul was like the rest of us? Who is the "rest of us"? You take the "pretty much" as if you are having a cup o tea watching Paul condemn to the death those who oppose his beliefs.
quote:...... certainly you jest. Paul was a murderor, a killer~~~ you blow that off as if Paul was like the rest of us? Who is the "rest of us"?
Song -- so that makes Paul a sinner, right?
When was the last time you read Romans 3:23? -->
Guess that puts all of us in the same boat as Paul. So he is just like the rest of us, or rather, that makes the "rest of us" just like him -- take your pick for the semantics, it says the same thing.
quote:It is a pity that teachers and writers down through the centuries have parsed his letters in order to construct their version of the logos of God.
I was hoping something good would come of this thread. Well said.
Been a little bit reserved about posting any response here...because my view of Paul is not popular at all...and I see what you all are putting Song through...but, yeah...I'm a fool going where angels fear to trod...oh well...here goes...
To me it is important to remember that Paul was not only a Pharisee but a murderer.
Why?
For the same reason I remember that my dad practiced pedophilia...
So that I can keep all things on the up and up.
It's great to know my dad had a life-changing, come-to-Jesus experience. In fact, knowing this about my dad has helped me to forgive him.
BUT...
When I found out that he was having swimming parties for pre-teens at his house, I called the church and advised them of the lack of wisdom in such a choice.
AND...
I never let my children or granddaughter be alone with him.
Getting born-again and preaching the gospel is no guarantee for a lack of sin in one's life.
So, what would Paul do?
I really don't care.
Because Paul did not change much in his personality. His misogyny alone is enough to make one wonder just what was really going on that kept him in prison so much.
quote: Because Paul did not change much in his personality. His misogyny alone is enough to make one wonder just what was really going on that kept him in prison so much.
I just learned a new word --"misogyny". CW -- how can Paul be accused of that? I know I need new glasses, but I haven't seen that in evidence in the bible.
Guess that puts all of us in the same boat as Paul. So he is just like the rest of us, or rather, that makes the "rest of us" just like him -- take your pick for the semantics, it says the same thing.
Hey Dmillar take two tapes your favorite lies and call someone who gives a damn
Maybe Paul was like the rest of us, in the fact that he, and many of us did awfull, unconscionable things in the name of God, fully bellieving these heinous actions to be our spiritual duty, only later to found out that we were dead wrong....
In Paul`s case and ours, God was able to break through our false religious training and wrong doctrine to rescue us, help us see our error, and to help us change......
In Pauls case as in ours, perhaps God was able to forgive us the great evil we practiced...and help us embark on a new spiritual journey of growth and learning....one where we make mistakes and stumble...but now that we are able to understand a little better, able to grow and change, become more spiritual people....maybe
What would you do being a murderor of the those who believe in JC and then transformed such a light and voice and healed of blindness of heart? and that's all there is he just goes off and recieves the greatest revelation of all time and gets the sht beat out of him!
Paul condemned christians to die in the name of service to God....I condemned my unborn child to die in the name of service to God.....some abandoned their ailing elderly parents ...in the name of service to God....Some of us threw unruly children out on the streets in the name of service to God.....no, not equal, but yet mabye similar....the burden of knowing that one has committed an evil that can never be righted...and yet have God forgive and work within you to become a productive force for good....to struggle to spend the rest of your life in atonement for what one did when ignorant of God....that is where I thought maybe we held some common ground.
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WhiteDove
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Oakspear
Maybe because Jesus was sent to Israel while Paul was a minister to the gentiles?
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Jim
Answer a question with a question. Are you witnessing to me?
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mj412
I think Paul would "get involved" more and complain about individuals on a very personal level.
I think Paul ministry was founded on the forgivness of Jesus Christ!!!!!!
Pual had a great amount of religous pride so far as killing those who where christians and not "good enough" for God.
He thought he was right and he could not have been more wrong .
I have killed no one (so far so good) but I have woke from a guilty error that rings in my mind like a tape that wont end when I realized I was wrong about somone and hurt them.
I can only imagine how Paul sought forgivness when he realized what he had done.
being forgiven and the release of the guilt my wrong has brought has made it so much faster and easier to forgive anotherin life!
who can bear that? Paul did . Jesus never wronged anyone yet He knew God so well He did the right thing. good for jesus christ that is why he is King of Kings YET I admire those of us who can do the big OH MY GOD IM so sorry and recover to allow another the same mercy in our life.
Paul would have asked alot more questions I think try to get to the bottom of the situation try to learn the dynamics of what was going on with people before he "understood " and forgive anyone.
But this I know Paul would forgive because he himself considered himself the chief of sinner, and knew the goodness of forgivness on a very personal level.
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WhiteDove
Gee I don't know Jim let's see:
Romans- Paul a servent of Jesus Christ...
Corinthians- Paul caled to be an Apostle...
Galations- Paul an Apostle by Jesus Christ...
Ephesians- Paul an Apostle of Jesus....
Philippians- Paul the servent of Jesus Christ...
Seems pretty clear to me he was a follower of Jesus an Apostle(Shlika) a doulos who carries a communication from his master or ruler. One who is sent,a messenger,a legate,a representative who can only communicate the message from the master who sent it.
Do you really think he just made up some new doctrine different from Jesus?
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Jim
A new doctrine? I don't know. Different motivations and goals? Yes, I'm pretty sure.
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WhiteDove
I see no indication that Paul would say anything different than Jesus. that was what Geek posted by the way what would Jesus say.
Anyway Paul was a follower of Jesus- One who subscribes to the teachings or methods of another; an adherent:
Yes, I'm more than pretty sure of that.
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Belle
I don't know the answer to your question, Jim. I'll have to think about that.
When I saw the title to this thread I thought it was going to be about how the TWIts lauded Paul as more important than Jesus. TWIts ask "What would Paul do?" and laugh at the people who ask, "What would Jesus do?"
Remember Craig going off on all the WWJD hoopla going on a while back? The key questions for TWIts have nothing to do with Jesus, but with Paul and the wc. "What would my BC do about this?" "What would my RC say?"
Disgusting. I'm ashamed to have ever thought that way, but I did.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Screw Paul ~~~ He Main Entry: [2]murder
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mur·dered; mur·der·ing /'m&r-d(&-)ri[ng]/
Date: 13th century
transitive senses
1 : to kill (a human being) unlawfully and with premeditated malice
2 : to slaughter wantonly : SLAY
3 a : to put an end to b : TEASE, TORMENT c : MUTILATE, MANGLE d : to defeat badly
intransitive senses
: to commit murder
synonym see KILL
Pronunciation Key
© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
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people and then had an extraordinary revelation!!!!
I'd like to hear him face to face
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mj412
of course Paul was a Servant of Jesus after his conversion yet he was a person different than Jesus how he handled situation the manner in which he thought the way he spoke , how he reacted etc was certainly different than Jesus .
the church was forming under paul's leadership, with a new risen christ as the head. Jesus had a completely different focus altogeher and the revelationship and what the people had been through was completly diferent so naturaly Paul would have to incorporate new ways and means of dealing with the information and teaching it to the christians.
Jesus for one had a reputation of a healer and a rabbi and a all around good guy whereas Paul was a brutal killer of those he was about to address umm kind of feels like a new spin would be needed doesnt it now?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
mj... you speak as if you were a witness this event... or are you just quoting 2 thousand year old events and claiming them as true?
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oenophile
It is pretty easy to spot Paul's pharisaic background in his boastings and in his critical mindset often found in his writings. Paul pretty much was like the rest of us. He had his human frailties but tried to follow Jesus' example and often came up short just like us.
He exquisitely spoke to us of God's grace, love and forgiveness as well as His eternal purpose. He also wrote that "the letter kills but the spirit gives life." It is a pity that teachers and writers down through the centuries have parsed his letters in order to construct their version of the logos of God.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Paul pretty much was like the rest of us.
Yo wine man, certainly you jest. Paul was a murderor, a killer~~~ you blow that off as if Paul was like the rest of us? Who is the "rest of us"? You take the "pretty much" as if you are having a cup o tea watching Paul condemn to the death those who oppose his beliefs.
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dmiller
Song -- so that makes Paul a sinner, right?
When was the last time you read Romans 3:23?
-->
Guess that puts all of us in the same boat as Paul. So he is just like the rest of us, or rather, that makes the "rest of us" just like him -- take your pick for the semantics, it says the same thing.
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Jim
I was hoping something good would come of this thread. Well said.
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CoolWaters
Been a little bit reserved about posting any response here...because my view of Paul is not popular at all...and I see what you all are putting Song through...but, yeah...I'm a fool going where angels fear to trod...oh well...here goes...
To me it is important to remember that Paul was not only a Pharisee but a murderer.
Why?
For the same reason I remember that my dad practiced pedophilia...
So that I can keep all things on the up and up.
It's great to know my dad had a life-changing, come-to-Jesus experience. In fact, knowing this about my dad has helped me to forgive him.
BUT...
When I found out that he was having swimming parties for pre-teens at his house, I called the church and advised them of the lack of wisdom in such a choice.
AND...
I never let my children or granddaughter be alone with him.
Getting born-again and preaching the gospel is no guarantee for a lack of sin in one's life.
So, what would Paul do?
I really don't care.
Because Paul did not change much in his personality. His misogyny alone is enough to make one wonder just what was really going on that kept him in prison so much.
Of course, there's the age old boasting...
I am of Paul, etc...
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dmiller
I just learned a new word --"misogyny". CW -- how can Paul be accused of that? I know I need new glasses, but I haven't seen that in evidence in the bible.
What am I missing?
-->
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CoolWaters
I thought you'd never ask!
;)-->
OK, I'm going to get a post together that I've been wanting to post for awhile but never found a reason to post it...until now.
Give me 'til tomorrow afternoon, OK?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
ler
FiddlePicker
posted October 31, 2004 01:13
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...... certainly you jest. Paul was a murderor, a killer~~~ you blow that off as if Paul was like the rest of us? Who is the "rest of us"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Song -- so that makes Paul a sinner, right?
When was the last time you read Romans 3:23?
Guess that puts all of us in the same boat as Paul. So he is just like the rest of us, or rather, that makes the "rest of us" just like him -- take your pick for the semantics, it says the same thing.
Hey Dmillar take two tapes your favorite lies and call someone who gives a damn
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mj412
I think they are true.
No I was not a witness.
The personalities of the writers shine through in the writing.
the feeling of the people would be common.
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rascal
Maybe Paul was like the rest of us, in the fact that he, and many of us did awfull, unconscionable things in the name of God, fully bellieving these heinous actions to be our spiritual duty, only later to found out that we were dead wrong....
In Paul`s case and ours, God was able to break through our false religious training and wrong doctrine to rescue us, help us see our error, and to help us change......
In Pauls case as in ours, perhaps God was able to forgive us the great evil we practiced...and help us embark on a new spiritual journey of growth and learning....one where we make mistakes and stumble...but now that we are able to understand a little better, able to grow and change, become more spiritual people....maybe
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
What would Paul Do?
What would you do being a murderor of the those who believe in JC and then transformed such a light and voice and healed of blindness of heart? and that's all there is he just goes off and recieves the greatest revelation of all time and gets the sht beat out of him!
Something seems to equal each other?
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rascal
Paul condemned christians to die in the name of service to God....I condemned my unborn child to die in the name of service to God.....some abandoned their ailing elderly parents ...in the name of service to God....Some of us threw unruly children out on the streets in the name of service to God.....no, not equal, but yet mabye similar....the burden of knowing that one has committed an evil that can never be righted...and yet have God forgive and work within you to become a productive force for good....to struggle to spend the rest of your life in atonement for what one did when ignorant of God....that is where I thought maybe we held some common ground.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
I condemned my unborn child to die in the name of service to God......
Abortion? under who told you to perform this sacrifice?
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