everyone is a really strong word . I doubt martindale cares what people think. and those still in twi really could care less. they have their own world and it isnt "of" this one.
the more somone speaks evil of anyone the more they can and do point a finger right back at the facts of what christian doctrine states.
and the internet is a hide out it sure isnt face to face as it is to be biblicly done . A great deal of the folks that post here had determined twi doctrine was not for them or thrown out for various reasons.
I will tell you I believe what the bible states as truth is one thing. speaking evil of what twi is to you is another and I surly seperate the two as do many people.
As far as the spiritual battle, sigh...apparently, some are more willing to entertain the spirits than to stand and fight against the evil ... eh?
Suppose that is why they recieve the consequences of their actions....one of them being, everyone discovering what scum bags they were when they viley they betrayed their ministry and their trust:-)
stand and fight the evil of mankind? not my job and it has already been when Jesus descended into the grave and took them captive.
the Christ of mankind has defeated this enemy , the stand you speak of would be for His Lordship , and that is the one body , the church. the bible truths which include loving and forgiving one another as He loves US that is "the stand".
WE are to stand up for the truth of the bible.
not picking at humans who have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Your stand is what exactly ? one of pointing a large finger of condemation at sinners?
oh ok . I will get in line for your stand. hahaaahaha
*stand up and fight the evil of mankind? not my job* MJ, evil triumphs when the good stand by and do nothing ....
I don`t have a stand, only an unanswered question.
Excathedra, silly, your OWN shoes will fit your feet, much nicer and are generally more comfortable....(watching my shoes carefully...lest she get any ideas)
The answer's simple, Rascal. Forgiveness is a givt. I mean, a gift.
God forgave, through Christ while we were/are all sinners. Here I am, by nature I'm told, separated from God. A child of relatives who long ago set the path for all of our lives but who probably can't be blamed too much, given the way we act today I'd say chances are at least 50/50 any of us would have done the same thing sooner or later. God made a promise in Genesis to work it out, and fulfilled it. But He didn't have to make the promise to begin with. He simply could have said "I told you guys, now you blew it. See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya." But He didn't. Forgiveness was extended, in blanket form. Com'n get it, soup's on. On God's part, the forgiveness was extended, the promise fulfilled, and a path to restoration laid out.
Add me in to the picture now. Deee-der deee-der doooo.... I don't know an apple from a mango, obedience from disobedience. But I have a sense inside, deep if you will, that pops it's head up every now and then. I know something's up. Most of the time I'm fine but as life goes through it's seasons, I see stuff. And wonder.
Put yourself in God's shoes. :D--> You're God. Pop quiz....Waddya gonna do?
"Bingo! Jimmy, ring the bell, we got us our first celebrity endorsement!"
It's fun to play god. God can do anything, pretty much for all intents and purposes. If I subscribe to the "God calls, we respond" scenario of redemption, the one thing He won't do though is make up my mind for me. We're on the free will program. Given the range of choices I have in life, I choose. Where that puts me in the food chain, I have to leave to Him.
One of the things that tells me about the nature of God is the extent of His forgiveness. The whole of redemption, whether metaphorical or otherwise, paints the picture of a resevoir of resources so vast it's a paradox to consider. IE>
hey i wrote this post of wordpad and wanted to copy and paste into this reply box. i can't find any edit features on the reply toolbar or copy and paste features.
how do you guys do that. thanks for the help if anyone knows. i would hate to have to type the post over into this reply space.
bingo bingo bingo....spiritual extortion...oh that is the best yet...I always thought of performance christianity like blackmail(male?) had no real connection to my personel life and feelings or strength to forgive...even come to terms with ....face the truth about some things,
Fact is is in my not so humble opinion excelerated forgiveness is pretty shallow.
n 1: compassionate feelings that support a willingness to forgive 2: the act of excusing a mistake or offense
quote:forgive
To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
To renounce anger or resentment against.
To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).
Based upon these definitons (taken from dictionary.com), I have no forgiveness towards twi.
I am not willing to excuse the destruction of the lives of little children.
I am not willing to stop being angry about such things.
What twi did to my daughter and other children is unexcuseable and is still tearing up the lives of these children and their families.
TWI owes a huge debt to these children and their families.
Instead of attempting to make things right, twi blamed the children and their families and harbored and protected the perpetrators.
In fact, one of the most prolific of the perps is reported to still be favored in the hallowed halls of twi.
The god that will not forgive me because I have not forgiven twi...
Well, that god is puny imo.
All of these scriptures tossed around are akin to believing=receiving: they are magical spells that get a deity to do something for a human.
If such magical spells are real, then the deity is controlled by the human.
I've been there, done that with the god of twi.
I ain't a gonna go back to that putridness.
Also, if such magical spells are real, then whatever deity is repsonding is a respecter of persons. Just look at the braggart mj is and you will see what happens with such a diety.
or do we? I can not change any other person I can only change my own mind about the situation . that is forgivness to me.
who can force or exhort forgivness? it would be a lie at best if attempted. forgivness comes from the inside of a person and really can not be faked if YOUR HONEST . if your a liar and just want to get along with the group I suppose people can say whatever they think is needed to please others.
Im talking about genuine forgivness . not forced not said because you want to make friends and influence people . Jesus forgave us out of a genuine LOVE for us and His father.
he recieved the gift of torture and death for that Love and forgivness. yet God Honors our Love and forgivness as he did His .
it is what changes the world . it is real . it is a choice.
Thanks Evan, those were the scriptures that I had asked about before getting buried.....
It would appear that there are conditions upon forgoveness.....I am not saying that it means you cannot do so if it suits you.....but I question whether it is right to condemn folks who don`t want to as unspiritual...rage filled etc.....
GeoSt.Geo, okay I went back and read pg. 11 (the only page I posted on, incidentally). Honestly, I lack the inclination to read the rest.
I'll repeat a point that was made on pg. 11. The Bible says a number of quite different things about forgiveness. I think a lot of grief could be avoided if people would just quit trying to treat the Bible like some cosmic jigsaw puzzle that must be pieced together just so. (Using the magic decoder ring, of course). Never mind that God made the way simple so a fool need not err.
The reason the Bible says different things is because there are different people and different situations. Apply whicher fits the situation at hand. If one asks "what does love require", the answer will likely not be too far off course.
This discussion gives ample evidence of the pointlessness of the whole "biblical accuracy" approach to Christian living.
I hope you don't think I'm trying to guilt you into anything. My point is simply that those verses in Luke do not require repentance before forgiveness is given.
No *guilting* detected, thanks George....but I do feel that I must (politely) disagree with you. To me, they appear to require us not only to *rebuke* the offender, but are quite specific about the offender repenting and asking, before it says we are to forgive.
The people mentioned by Geek in the beginning of this thread have in NO way met the minimal requirements listed for forgiveness to be granted by God, much less ourselves....
Seems kind of arrogant to say yeah well God expects that (repentance and asking) but WE don`t need to....lets all just be nice.....
I think that it is set up this way for a reason...and that it is a mistake for one to bypass the first two requirements listed concerning forgiveness.
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mj412
everyone is a really strong word . I doubt martindale cares what people think. and those still in twi really could care less. they have their own world and it isnt "of" this one.
the more somone speaks evil of anyone the more they can and do point a finger right back at the facts of what christian doctrine states.
and the internet is a hide out it sure isnt face to face as it is to be biblicly done . A great deal of the folks that post here had determined twi doctrine was not for them or thrown out for various reasons.
I will tell you I believe what the bible states as truth is one thing. speaking evil of what twi is to you is another and I surly seperate the two as do many people.
so did vpw at least in his teachings.
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mj412
stand and fight the evil of mankind? not my job and it has already been when Jesus descended into the grave and took them captive.
the Christ of mankind has defeated this enemy , the stand you speak of would be for His Lordship , and that is the one body , the church. the bible truths which include loving and forgiving one another as He loves US that is "the stand".
WE are to stand up for the truth of the bible.
not picking at humans who have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Your stand is what exactly ? one of pointing a large finger of condemation at sinners?
oh ok . I will get in line for your stand. hahaaahaha
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rascal
*stand up and fight the evil of mankind? not my job* MJ, evil triumphs when the good stand by and do nothing ....
I don`t have a stand, only an unanswered question.
Excathedra, silly, your OWN shoes will fit your feet, much nicer and are generally more comfortable....(watching my shoes carefully...lest she get any ideas)
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socks
The answer's simple, Rascal. Forgiveness is a givt. I mean, a gift.
God forgave, through Christ while we were/are all sinners. Here I am, by nature I'm told, separated from God. A child of relatives who long ago set the path for all of our lives but who probably can't be blamed too much, given the way we act today I'd say chances are at least 50/50 any of us would have done the same thing sooner or later. God made a promise in Genesis to work it out, and fulfilled it. But He didn't have to make the promise to begin with. He simply could have said "I told you guys, now you blew it. See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya." But He didn't. Forgiveness was extended, in blanket form. Com'n get it, soup's on. On God's part, the forgiveness was extended, the promise fulfilled, and a path to restoration laid out.
Add me in to the picture now. Deee-der deee-der doooo.... I don't know an apple from a mango, obedience from disobedience. But I have a sense inside, deep if you will, that pops it's head up every now and then. I know something's up. Most of the time I'm fine but as life goes through it's seasons, I see stuff. And wonder.
Put yourself in God's shoes.
:D--> You're God. Pop quiz....Waddya gonna do?
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rascal
ok, forgiveness is a gift... if someone points at me (not you socks) an says *ya gotta do it or ya ain`t spurtchal* it then becomes extortion.....no?
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socks
"Bingo! Jimmy, ring the bell, we got us our first celebrity endorsement!"
It's fun to play god. God can do anything, pretty much for all intents and purposes. If I subscribe to the "God calls, we respond" scenario of redemption, the one thing He won't do though is make up my mind for me. We're on the free will program. Given the range of choices I have in life, I choose. Where that puts me in the food chain, I have to leave to Him.
One of the things that tells me about the nature of God is the extent of His forgiveness. The whole of redemption, whether metaphorical or otherwise, paints the picture of a resevoir of resources so vast it's a paradox to consider. IE>
I'm lost, how can I get out?
Answer (God) - you can't.
Response - that sucks.
Answer - I know.
Me: So, now what?
Answer - I fixed it.
Response: Why'd you do that?
Answer - it's a long story.
Response - cool. Uh, I guess thanks are in order
Answer - Great. I don't always get any.
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outofdafog
hey i wrote this post of wordpad and wanted to copy and paste into this reply box. i can't find any edit features on the reply toolbar or copy and paste features.
how do you guys do that. thanks for the help if anyone knows. i would hate to have to type the post over into this reply space.
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excathedra
i believe you're going to have to Ctrl C (copy) and then Ctrl V (paste)
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DaddyHoundog
bingo bingo bingo....spiritual extortion...oh that is the best yet...I always thought of performance christianity like blackmail(male?) had no real connection to my personel life and feelings or strength to forgive...even come to terms with ....face the truth about some things,
Fact is is in my not so humble opinion excelerated forgiveness is pretty shallow.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
DaddyHoundog
Watch out... u might just have a fat a s s
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DaddyHoundog
song you have no idea.
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DaddyHoundog
I have to correct something I saud...I did Not always think that way...but did after I detached myself from the borg that is the way
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Oakspear
Rascal I forgive you for not bringing more Beck's beer to the Weenie Roast.
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CoolWaters
Based upon these definitons (taken from dictionary.com), I have no forgiveness towards twi.
I am not willing to excuse the destruction of the lives of little children.
I am not willing to stop being angry about such things.
What twi did to my daughter and other children is unexcuseable and is still tearing up the lives of these children and their families.
TWI owes a huge debt to these children and their families.
Instead of attempting to make things right, twi blamed the children and their families and harbored and protected the perpetrators.
In fact, one of the most prolific of the perps is reported to still be favored in the hallowed halls of twi.
The god that will not forgive me because I have not forgiven twi...
Well, that god is puny imo.
All of these scriptures tossed around are akin to believing=receiving: they are magical spells that get a deity to do something for a human.
If such magical spells are real, then the deity is controlled by the human.
I've been there, done that with the god of twi.
I ain't a gonna go back to that putridness.
Also, if such magical spells are real, then whatever deity is repsonding is a respecter of persons. Just look at the braggart mj is and you will see what happens with such a diety.
I ain't a gonna go back to that putridness.
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excathedra
i think i have to make sure my forgiveness is not repression or denial because that can screw you up as much, if not more, than not forgiving someone
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mj412
does God hold his children accountable?
or do we? I can not change any other person I can only change my own mind about the situation . that is forgivness to me.
who can force or exhort forgivness? it would be a lie at best if attempted. forgivness comes from the inside of a person and really can not be faked if YOUR HONEST . if your a liar and just want to get along with the group I suppose people can say whatever they think is needed to please others.
Im talking about genuine forgivness . not forced not said because you want to make friends and influence people . Jesus forgave us out of a genuine LOVE for us and His father.
he recieved the gift of torture and death for that Love and forgivness. yet God Honors our Love and forgivness as he did His .
it is what changes the world . it is real . it is a choice.
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TheEvan
Forgive me if this has been covered earlier. Jesus made forgiveness conditional, at least in this case:
KJV Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass
against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
KJV Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day,
and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou
shalt forgive him.
Hmmm
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GeorgeStGeorge
TheEvan,
These scriptures have been mentioned a number of times. You might want to check out p. 11 of this thread, among others.
George
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rascal
Thanks Evan, those were the scriptures that I had asked about before getting buried.....
It would appear that there are conditions upon forgoveness.....I am not saying that it means you cannot do so if it suits you.....but I question whether it is right to condemn folks who don`t want to as unspiritual...rage filled etc.....
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TheEvan
GeoSt.Geo, okay I went back and read pg. 11 (the only page I posted on, incidentally). Honestly, I lack the inclination to read the rest.
I'll repeat a point that was made on pg. 11. The Bible says a number of quite different things about forgiveness. I think a lot of grief could be avoided if people would just quit trying to treat the Bible like some cosmic jigsaw puzzle that must be pieced together just so. (Using the magic decoder ring, of course). Never mind that God made the way simple so a fool need not err.
The reason the Bible says different things is because there are different people and different situations. Apply whicher fits the situation at hand. If one asks "what does love require", the answer will likely not be too far off course.
This discussion gives ample evidence of the pointlessness of the whole "biblical accuracy" approach to Christian living.
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DaddyHoundog
THANK YOU EVAN! the biblical accuracy theory is so subjective....
Denies the whole individualtiy of God and his relationship with us....
We don't live "toll road" christianity...at least not at my house.
Lianne Pierce
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excathedra
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GeorgeStGeorge
By the way, Rascal,
I hope you don't think I'm trying to guilt you into anything. My point is simply that those verses in Luke do not require repentance before forgiveness is given.
George
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rascal
No *guilting* detected, thanks George....but I do feel that I must (politely) disagree with you. To me, they appear to require us not only to *rebuke* the offender, but are quite specific about the offender repenting and asking, before it says we are to forgive.
The people mentioned by Geek in the beginning of this thread have in NO way met the minimal requirements listed for forgiveness to be granted by God, much less ourselves....
Seems kind of arrogant to say yeah well God expects that (repentance and asking) but WE don`t need to....lets all just be nice.....
I think that it is set up this way for a reason...and that it is a mistake for one to bypass the first two requirements listed concerning forgiveness.
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