A Christian and a Chrystian are arguing, think it was a Wednesday, although it doesn't matter really, they'll argue on any day. But I'm pretty sure this was on a Wednesday. Chris wants Chrys to drop the "y" and go to the "i". She says it's more accurate, more in line with the teachings of Christ. Hey, it's Christ right, not "Chryst"? Chrys says it doesn't matter to him either way, Christ is Christ no matter what. It gets hot, always does on important matters like this. Finally Chrys takes his bible, slams it shut and whacks Chris on the head with it. Big whack, leaves a mark.
Chris is in shock. Atheist walks up and see the Chreestians are at it again and takes a poke too, two pokes actually if I remember right. Chris grabs the bible out of Chrys's hand and starts wailing on the Atheist with it, just whippin' him good. Chrys grabs it and does likewise until finally the Atheist runs away.
Chrys and Chris shake hands and head out for coffee. "What were we arguing about?" says Chrys. Chris can't remember but they both agree to invite the atheist to church next Sunday. Chrys says "A little Chrystian love would do him good". Chris suddenly remembers what they were arguing about, says "We'll make it my church". Chrys says no, his. Turns into a major argument, which is normal for a Wednesday.
that's very interesting. in my non-alien family, the catholics and protestants fight all the time (over the virgin mary and trinity and such). the non-alien athiests never fight.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
me, i'm an alien observer ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
I was going to name our 3rd child Alyean, ex but fortunately we stopped at two. Plus I needed a "j" name, and Jalean was out of the question for obvious reasons. :D-->
Well, I'm glad I don't get paid for my stow-reez, Abi. :D--> Although if anyone was edified, exhorted or comforted please don't forget who brought you back from the edges of despair, come payday. ;)-->
I'm just stumped on the forgiveness thing. I don't think we have to be geniuses, theologians or even serious hobbyists of the bible to understand Jesus's teachings on forgiveness. He taught forgive and I would use the word "magnanimous" to desribe the level of forgiveness He presented.
I don't care if it's my brother, mother or my right hand, if someone messes with me enough times I am simply not going to want to forgive them. IE - I screw somebody over, they forgive me. I do it again. I say I'm sorry, they forgive me. I do it again, this time something different. I'm sorry this time, for real. They forgive me. I do the same thing again. When's it end? 7 X 7 X infinity? That sounds bizarre.
Then we have situations where there is no resolution possible. The other person's out of touch and out of hand. Gone, dead, no longer part of my life. It's over. Forgive? Why?
Plus all these situations where the other person/people are still around and if not getting away with the same thing, getting away with whatever it was that hurt me. In fact, they've already gotten away with it. Why forgive that? They've done nothing to deserve a clean start or for that matter not getting what's rightly coming to them. It doesn't make sense.
But no matter how I turn it forgiveness is what He taught. He also taught working it out with the offender. He also taught restitution. Treat others the way you'd like to be treated. Overall, example after example of people forgiving those who would come forward and seek that forgiveness of one kind or another. So what about those who don't seek it? Ultimately He lived it when he died and prayed for His killers- "Father, forgive them, they don't know what they're doing". Whether they got it or not, Jesus asked for it on their behalf. Didn't He? My gut twists thinking about that because I have immense respect for Jesus and I know I'm not 1/2 the man who could do that.
It's a very personal affair, this forgiveness business. It can be simple, complex. There can be consequences to our behavior even when forgiveness is extended. If anything, it's a worthy goal to aspire to, IMO. But whether anyone ever does regarding anything, it's their business.
It doesn't erase an offense, far from it. It memorializes it, clarifies it, draws a line in the sand and says "this was wrong. I know it whether you do or not. And whether you recognize it or correct it, I know this was wrong. Even if you don't make it right, I'm not going to stop here, I'm going to act as if you did because I know that making it right would be the correct thing to do and I will proceed accordingly from this point on".
Doessn't mean I have to ask for the same treatment again. But it clearly states my perspective on the matter.
anyways, after geek's explanation it just feels like it was a drive by experiment with us as the guinea pigs. hope we aren't this weeks sermon at CFF -->
is it okay not to capatalize when posting?
just funnin', just geting over not feeling good, the vet said is was "distemper"
Maybe so Socks...guess I bristle (not at you) when being told I oughtta forgive...because so MANY times...(disclaimer... no catcup, I am NOT attributing these motives to geek) the people that have been pointing their finger in my face, visciously condemning me for my lack of forgiveness...are the SAME folks (further disclaimer .... no, not everyone here who espoused forgiving is in this catagory) who want us to shut up about the evil practiced by the leaders in twi..
It is a lot easier to remain in our safe little bubble, believing that we are oh so superior because of our accurate knowledge.....and that the little *incidents* incurred in twi, were the minor failings of dear brothers who stumbled and simply needing forgiveness.....than to have to deal with the brutal truth of being used, our lives coopted, our resources and youth squandered...and when those were all exhausted, simply tossed out like so much trash...and this by folks who`s every action brand them not only as being of the flesh, but wolves in sheeps clothing.
I feel like those who are the most vociferous in wanting us to forgive and move on, do so with ulterior motive...ie so that we will just shut UP..... makes it ever so much easier to go on pretending that we were the greatest thing to the spiritual movement since sliced bread donnt`cha know.....I know, I know, that just MAYBE ... lol ... I am being a tad hyper sensative here .... but it FEELS like a subtle form of control all over again.....a way of attempting to stuff ugly things back in lock box.
If we forgive we will shut up...I want the WORLD to know what these amoral creeps desperatly wanted kept quiet.....many times destroying lives in an effort to maintain their dirty little secrets.
Maybe that is the consequences of living an amoral life style...maybe exposure of their true nature and spiritual degredation IS considered the vengeance of God........their *good* name forever immortalised in the annals of history as the calloused cruel abusers of the innocents that they were.
Thus my question....It is not that I am unwilling to forgive, but simply BEFORE I ignore my instinct yet again....and do something that someone ELSE deems *best* I wanted to KNOW scripturally why to ignore the clear instruction concerning repentance and asking.....
I suppose that this now, will *require* folks to forgive ME for being unforgiving......(though currently I have no intention of repenting, changing my behavior, nor asking)...lol
no one "requires" you to do anything it is in your head that it is all about you Rascal. it is only a discussion board,no ulterior motives and no one wants to control you.
catcup just asked you to stop lying and twisting words said by another, and I have asked you to answer your own question regarding scripture which you fail to do. yet you chose to use scripture as a base line of your stance of knowing what is truth. the manner in which you write it is all about a "we" "we" this "we" that um excuse I am not a "we" and niether is anyone eles here that can consider their own self seperate from a cult. whether physicaly or mentaly when you leave a cult the "we" part goes away .
but for you it has not and may never you tend to need it and rely on it alot. clearly rascal no one wants to shut you up , yet you claim being a victim of such .
"maybe that is the consequence of livingan amoral life style.. maybe exposure of their true nature and spirtual degredation is cnsidered the vengeance of God" their "good" name forever immortalised in the annuals of history as the calloused cruel abuser of the innocents that they were"
that is a quote form you .. this is YOUR MISSion from god your goal your reason for being here your attention.
funny God is so far removed from anything in that paragraph it makes the whole things pitiful and really shows who YOU are.
God loves you Rascal and He loves all the time. God isnt using you and will never use anyone but to care and love one another.
Vengence with as much as the anger and venom inside you from a misery no one can guess does not belong to you it belongs to the LORD Jesus christ. We are commanded to love.
but you have your own little mission and it doesnt matter to you much in the same way what people thought or said mattered little to VPW as he often taught .
If you wnat to use the bible as a base line for your mission from god then you must answer to what it says. but you do not want to do that at all even when it is clearly given to you , you then attack and twist and lie about the other posters and engage your peers for support. anything to avoid what the written word really says.
I certainly would never want you to shut up Rascal everyone of us will account for every word out of our mouth some day and the Vengence you long for and think is what your hateful posts are doing will INDEED be here In HIS loving and Justice .
Hey mj, anybody who can remember old vp n craig looking us straight in the eyes and piously exhorting us to *do* the word...to be doulos, to make the sacrifices....etc...be the dog soldiers....who paraded themselves as Godly men, proudly proclaiming their virtue......all the while knowing that behind our backs, they were raping our sisters, destroying reputations and lives when refused.......destroying people and families at will........anyone who DOESN`T get really angry, is goofey in my book.
It would be my guess that the folks being discussed probably ....ed God off too....No worries though, I imagine that he will forgive them, *IF* they repent n *WHEN* they ask... that is the day that I will consider granting forgiveness myself.
Rasc, you may be right. There probably are people who would like anyone who wants to beef about the Way's history to pipe down so as to allow for the continuation of what they consider to be it's good side, the teaching stuff that they want to continue in, the traditions they like and think are right. The less emphasis put on the bad stuff the easier it is to go about rebuilding what was lost for them, the basic lifestyle and teachings they want to keep. And some people just want to move on from whatever happened to or around them and deal with their lives as they are now. That's a choice a person has every right to make.
Plus I have to remember not everyone experienced the same things. I think it says something about the people who came through the Way that some of them, who never really had a bad thing happen to them, seek to understand what may have been going on in a broader perspective than their own. That's pretty stand up if you ask me.
But overall I don't see that "pipe down, you're scaring the new people at fellowship" attitude here on GS. Geek? I doubt it, he just doesn't come off to me that way. Nor Catcup, who periodically rips the Way a new one if she deems it appropriate to the topic at hand. :D--> People have something to offer so they offer it. This is a place where you can do that. So people do that. I have no doubt there are situations that would benefit from this idea of forgiveness. How's that go..."your mileage may vary". :)-->
I'll go another step here, at the expense of sounding like I'm defending people, which I am I guess, but remember I'm an equal opportunity defender. :P--> People like yourself, Geek, Catcup, mj, everyone - you've earned the right for your voice to be heard. You've been dere, done dat. If you're sensitive to a particular topic, there's a reason, right? Of course there's a personal side to it - it's personal, it's you, it's your life.
Geeks' original post said "Consider what forgiveness may bring to you." That's all. "Wanna talk about it?" I guess we are. Without the possibility of resolution, one on one, with whatever people are involved in a conflict, it becomes a very individual matter IMO. If there's no chance that someone's ever going to be able to face off with another person to resolve a conflict, it's up to you or me to resolve it on our end. How to do that is the question being posed I guess. That's all, or at least that's my take. I suspect you already have and what we're dealing with is the finer points of execution. If so, so be it.
anyways, after geek's explanation it just feels like it was a drive by experiment with us as the guinea pigs. hope we aren't this weeks sermon at CFF -->
Fog your assessment of RG is far off the mark perhaps because you have not taken the time to learn about him. I have had him as a guest on a couple of occasions and your view is not consistant with his manner. While I appreciate your humor I wonder at what expence it comes at. Probably the same expence as all the other posters who no longer post here. I for one have missed their little avatars. Just a thought!!
I found this today it is part of a several page article on forgivness by Vince Finnegan.
"Forgiveness is not identical to trust,friendship,and fellowship and must not be confused as such. God does not command us to trust every man. Nor does He tell us we are to be friends of or keep company with those who refuse to live His Word. He does command us to love,forgive,not to think evil of,and pray for people. When we are forgiving toward another we do not place our spiritual walk in jeopardy; quite the contrary,trusting and fellowshiping with someone who continues to hurt us can very well jepardize our fellowship with God. To be forgiving does not mean to forsake wisdom and good sense."
how many times can a person change their mind about something?
I can not claim to know what a man or woman really thinks in his mind,we often are surprised by the fact no one really knows all yet God can and does. hence He is the one who forgives.
whitedove right on the fact common sense is the reason Jesus really couldnt witness to his home town very well. common sense told them who He was to them, just a carpeners son. We have a spirt as well that protects and guides for that very purpose in life other wise How would we know?
to protect is not license to hurtor destroy another another.
Hmmm, I think repent has a little deeper meaning than simply *changing ones mind* lol
If as you suggest, that *God knows their hearts AND they repent AND they ask God to forgive*...AND he does great!
If *I* know their heart, AND that they have repented, AND that they ask ME to forgive....THEN like God, so will I ....untill then, it is not my place nor any of my business:-)
*not being charged* is certainly not equal to not guily....Lol, reread what I said, I wasn`t warping what you said, I was discussing vp, craig n the twi leaders ... and what MY opinion concerning their sins...and of those who WEREN`T angered by what they did.
Hmmm, I think repent has a little deeper meaning than simply *changing ones mind* lol
If God knows thier hearts and they repent and they ask God to forgive...and he does great!
WHEN *I* know their heart, and that they have repented, and they ask ME to forgive....then so will I ....untill then, it is none of my business:-)
again with the thinking do a word study on the word repent Rascal and that is all it truly means in the bible .
to change your mind , and be forgiven .
I can not claim to know anyones "heart" what the hell kind of term is that? where did ya learn that? oh ok.
if your are using a twi term here which I suppose you are I will supose you mean a person inner most thoughts / their definition.
no one really knows anothers inner thoughts Rascal except God.
no one. we have all been led astray . the liars of the world do not reveal their inner most thoughts by a long shot for sure.
I do forgive I forgive because I have been forgiven and some day down the line God forbid I may need it again untill we are all made perfect I suppose everyone might.
so I forgive knowing I have been forgiven and can freely ask for it again. From those I love for those I do not love.
it is a staple of a sane society .
or we can all have our hands on the hips and shout at one another the wrongs each has done and never ever have any peace or love in our life.
it is a choice . I do not wait till somone asks for forgivness some can never pay for the hurt they cause my life but I can continue to ask God to bless their life and my own with peace and safety and love and all the goodness of having a LORD brings. I have hurt others we all have been guilty of misunderstanding and pain towards others I want forgivness so I give it .
and you are to be congratulated, as I can certainly see that forgiveness in your every post, Dear....kindda gives me a warm feeling...sniff... right here....(thumping my chest)...
I think God loves vpw and martindale and everyone just the same.
I do not think anyone earned their way into the kingdom I think Jesus christ did.
that is so twi.. oh they will pay for hurting like you are able to sic God on another one of His own children someday. (Ifind this to be evil and gross)
it isnt about flesh Rascal it is about spirits. WE do not fight flesh and blood we fight an enemy of thoughts in our mind one of which is the religous one of being so self righteous another needs to die . hence the cruxifying of the ONLY perfect Son of God.
If I had to live in a world where I was so filled with bitterness and hate I thought about how another child of God is going to suffer and pay for hurting me , and made it my mission in life , I wouldnt want to see another day.
But thank God I do not live in that world I know the very grace of God is granted to All today by the shed blood of Gods Holy Son, and all things will work together for good and someday we will all live together agin in peace and love with HIM and God.
As far as the spiritual battle, sigh...apparently, some are more willing to entertain the spirits than to stand and fight against the evil ... eh?
Suppose that is why they recieve the consequences of their actions....one of them being, everyone discovering what scum bags they were when they viley they betrayed their ministry and their trust:-)
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excathedra
i like to argue here.... makes the people around me like me better
;)-->
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socks
And you're liked!
:)-->
A Christian and a Chrystian are arguing, think it was a Wednesday, although it doesn't matter really, they'll argue on any day. But I'm pretty sure this was on a Wednesday. Chris wants Chrys to drop the "y" and go to the "i". She says it's more accurate, more in line with the teachings of Christ. Hey, it's Christ right, not "Chryst"? Chrys says it doesn't matter to him either way, Christ is Christ no matter what. It gets hot, always does on important matters like this. Finally Chrys takes his bible, slams it shut and whacks Chris on the head with it. Big whack, leaves a mark.
Chris is in shock. Atheist walks up and see the Chreestians are at it again and takes a poke too, two pokes actually if I remember right. Chris grabs the bible out of Chrys's hand and starts wailing on the Atheist with it, just whippin' him good. Chrys grabs it and does likewise until finally the Atheist runs away.
Chrys and Chris shake hands and head out for coffee. "What were we arguing about?" says Chrys. Chris can't remember but they both agree to invite the atheist to church next Sunday. Chrys says "A little Chrystian love would do him good". Chris suddenly remembers what they were arguing about, says "We'll make it my church". Chrys says no, his. Turns into a major argument, which is normal for a Wednesday.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
socks what is the difference between "An Atheist and a Christian". ?
Knock Knock
Who's there????
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Abigail
hehehehehehehe
and ya see Socks, ya made the most important point of all by not saying it, so I will.
The Christian and the Atheist fight. The Christian and the Christian fight.
Who isn't fighting? The athiest and the athiest.
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excathedra
that's very interesting. in my non-alien family, the catholics and protestants fight all the time (over the virgin mary and trinity and such). the non-alien athiests never fight.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
me, i'm an alien observer ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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socks
I was going to name our 3rd child Alyean, ex but fortunately we stopped at two. Plus I needed a "j" name, and Jalean was out of the question for obvious reasons.
:D-->
Well, I'm glad I don't get paid for my stow-reez, Abi.
:D--> Although if anyone was edified, exhorted or comforted please don't forget who brought you back from the edges of despair, come payday. 
;)-->
I'm just stumped on the forgiveness thing. I don't think we have to be geniuses, theologians or even serious hobbyists of the bible to understand Jesus's teachings on forgiveness. He taught forgive and I would use the word "magnanimous" to desribe the level of forgiveness He presented.
I don't care if it's my brother, mother or my right hand, if someone messes with me enough times I am simply not going to want to forgive them. IE - I screw somebody over, they forgive me. I do it again. I say I'm sorry, they forgive me. I do it again, this time something different. I'm sorry this time, for real. They forgive me. I do the same thing again. When's it end? 7 X 7 X infinity? That sounds bizarre.
Then we have situations where there is no resolution possible. The other person's out of touch and out of hand. Gone, dead, no longer part of my life. It's over. Forgive? Why?
Plus all these situations where the other person/people are still around and if not getting away with the same thing, getting away with whatever it was that hurt me. In fact, they've already gotten away with it. Why forgive that? They've done nothing to deserve a clean start or for that matter not getting what's rightly coming to them. It doesn't make sense.
But no matter how I turn it forgiveness is what He taught. He also taught working it out with the offender. He also taught restitution. Treat others the way you'd like to be treated. Overall, example after example of people forgiving those who would come forward and seek that forgiveness of one kind or another. So what about those who don't seek it? Ultimately He lived it when he died and prayed for His killers- "Father, forgive them, they don't know what they're doing". Whether they got it or not, Jesus asked for it on their behalf. Didn't He? My gut twists thinking about that because I have immense respect for Jesus and I know I'm not 1/2 the man who could do that.
It's a very personal affair, this forgiveness business. It can be simple, complex. There can be consequences to our behavior even when forgiveness is extended. If anything, it's a worthy goal to aspire to, IMO. But whether anyone ever does regarding anything, it's their business.
It doesn't erase an offense, far from it. It memorializes it, clarifies it, draws a line in the sand and says "this was wrong. I know it whether you do or not. And whether you recognize it or correct it, I know this was wrong. Even if you don't make it right, I'm not going to stop here, I'm going to act as if you did because I know that making it right would be the correct thing to do and I will proceed accordingly from this point on".
Doessn't mean I have to ask for the same treatment again. But it clearly states my perspective on the matter.
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outofdafog
excie:
this place is really going to the *dogs*
sorry just a play on words
anyways, after geek's explanation it just feels like it was a drive by experiment with us as the guinea pigs. hope we aren't this weeks sermon at CFF
-->
is it okay not to capatalize when posting?
just funnin', just geting over not feeling good, the vet said is was "distemper"
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rascal
...this weeks sermon??? ....rofl..
p.s. thanks Fog:-)
Maybe so Socks...guess I bristle (not at you) when being told I oughtta forgive...because so MANY times...(disclaimer... no catcup, I am NOT attributing these motives to geek) the people that have been pointing their finger in my face, visciously condemning me for my lack of forgiveness...are the SAME folks (further disclaimer .... no, not everyone here who espoused forgiving is in this catagory) who want us to shut up about the evil practiced by the leaders in twi..
It is a lot easier to remain in our safe little bubble, believing that we are oh so superior because of our accurate knowledge.....and that the little *incidents* incurred in twi, were the minor failings of dear brothers who stumbled and simply needing forgiveness.....than to have to deal with the brutal truth of being used, our lives coopted, our resources and youth squandered...and when those were all exhausted, simply tossed out like so much trash...and this by folks who`s every action brand them not only as being of the flesh, but wolves in sheeps clothing.
I feel like those who are the most vociferous in wanting us to forgive and move on, do so with ulterior motive...ie so that we will just shut UP..... makes it ever so much easier to go on pretending that we were the greatest thing to the spiritual movement since sliced bread donnt`cha know.....I know, I know, that just MAYBE ... lol ... I am being a tad hyper sensative here .... but it FEELS like a subtle form of control all over again.....a way of attempting to stuff ugly things back in lock box.
If we forgive we will shut up...I want the WORLD to know what these amoral creeps desperatly wanted kept quiet.....many times destroying lives in an effort to maintain their dirty little secrets.
Maybe that is the consequences of living an amoral life style...maybe exposure of their true nature and spiritual degredation IS considered the vengeance of God........their *good* name forever immortalised in the annals of history as the calloused cruel abusers of the innocents that they were.
Thus my question....It is not that I am unwilling to forgive, but simply BEFORE I ignore my instinct yet again....and do something that someone ELSE deems *best* I wanted to KNOW scripturally why to ignore the clear instruction concerning repentance and asking.....
I suppose that this now, will *require* folks to forgive ME for being unforgiving......(though currently I have no intention of repenting, changing my behavior, nor asking)...lol
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mj412
Rascal
no one "requires" you to do anything it is in your head that it is all about you Rascal. it is only a discussion board,no ulterior motives and no one wants to control you.
catcup just asked you to stop lying and twisting words said by another, and I have asked you to answer your own question regarding scripture which you fail to do. yet you chose to use scripture as a base line of your stance of knowing what is truth. the manner in which you write it is all about a "we" "we" this "we" that um excuse I am not a "we" and niether is anyone eles here that can consider their own self seperate from a cult. whether physicaly or mentaly when you leave a cult the "we" part goes away .
but for you it has not and may never you tend to need it and rely on it alot. clearly rascal no one wants to shut you up , yet you claim being a victim of such .
"maybe that is the consequence of livingan amoral life style.. maybe exposure of their true nature and spirtual degredation is cnsidered the vengeance of God" their "good" name forever immortalised in the annuals of history as the calloused cruel abuser of the innocents that they were"
that is a quote form you .. this is YOUR MISSion from god your goal your reason for being here your attention.
funny God is so far removed from anything in that paragraph it makes the whole things pitiful and really shows who YOU are.
God loves you Rascal and He loves all the time. God isnt using you and will never use anyone but to care and love one another.
Vengence with as much as the anger and venom inside you from a misery no one can guess does not belong to you it belongs to the LORD Jesus christ. We are commanded to love.
but you have your own little mission and it doesnt matter to you much in the same way what people thought or said mattered little to VPW as he often taught .
If you wnat to use the bible as a base line for your mission from god then you must answer to what it says. but you do not want to do that at all even when it is clearly given to you , you then attack and twist and lie about the other posters and engage your peers for support. anything to avoid what the written word really says.
I certainly would never want you to shut up Rascal everyone of us will account for every word out of our mouth some day and the Vengence you long for and think is what your hateful posts are doing will INDEED be here In HIS loving and Justice .
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rascal
Hey mj, anybody who can remember old vp n craig looking us straight in the eyes and piously exhorting us to *do* the word...to be doulos, to make the sacrifices....etc...be the dog soldiers....who paraded themselves as Godly men, proudly proclaiming their virtue......all the while knowing that behind our backs, they were raping our sisters, destroying reputations and lives when refused.......destroying people and families at will........anyone who DOESN`T get really angry, is goofey in my book.
It would be my guess that the folks being discussed probably ....ed God off too....No worries though, I imagine that he will forgive them, *IF* they repent n *WHEN* they ask... that is the day that I will consider granting forgiveness myself.
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rascal
Lol mj, do you think that God`s vengeance is gonna be worse on me for talking about what they did, or to them for DOING what they did? ...hmmmmm
I`ll pay my dues when the time comes, I damn sure hope that they are going to answere for theirs.
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socks
Rasc, you may be right. There probably are people who would like anyone who wants to beef about the Way's history to pipe down so as to allow for the continuation of what they consider to be it's good side, the teaching stuff that they want to continue in, the traditions they like and think are right. The less emphasis put on the bad stuff the easier it is to go about rebuilding what was lost for them, the basic lifestyle and teachings they want to keep. And some people just want to move on from whatever happened to or around them and deal with their lives as they are now. That's a choice a person has every right to make.
Plus I have to remember not everyone experienced the same things. I think it says something about the people who came through the Way that some of them, who never really had a bad thing happen to them, seek to understand what may have been going on in a broader perspective than their own. That's pretty stand up if you ask me.
But overall I don't see that "pipe down, you're scaring the new people at fellowship" attitude here on GS. Geek? I doubt it, he just doesn't come off to me that way. Nor Catcup, who periodically rips the Way a new one if she deems it appropriate to the topic at hand.
:D--> People have something to offer so they offer it. This is a place where you can do that. So people do that. I have no doubt there are situations that would benefit from this idea of forgiveness. How's that go..."your mileage may vary". 
:)-->
I'll go another step here, at the expense of sounding like I'm defending people, which I am I guess, but remember I'm an equal opportunity defender.
:P--> People like yourself, Geek, Catcup, mj, everyone - you've earned the right for your voice to be heard. You've been dere, done dat. If you're sensitive to a particular topic, there's a reason, right? Of course there's a personal side to it - it's personal, it's you, it's your life.
Geeks' original post said "Consider what forgiveness may bring to you." That's all. "Wanna talk about it?" I guess we are. Without the possibility of resolution, one on one, with whatever people are involved in a conflict, it becomes a very individual matter IMO. If there's no chance that someone's ever going to be able to face off with another person to resolve a conflict, it's up to you or me to resolve it on our end. How to do that is the question being posed I guess. That's all, or at least that's my take. I suspect you already have and what we're dealing with is the finer points of execution. If so, so be it.
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WhiteDove
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GeorgeStGeorge
Great post again, Socks. If you ever get bored with GSC, you could mediate peace talks in the Middle East!
:)-->
George
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WhiteDove
I found this today it is part of a several page article on forgivness by Vince Finnegan.
"Forgiveness is not identical to trust,friendship,and fellowship and must not be confused as such. God does not command us to trust every man. Nor does He tell us we are to be friends of or keep company with those who refuse to live His Word. He does command us to love,forgive,not to think evil of,and pray for people. When we are forgiving toward another we do not place our spiritual walk in jeopardy; quite the contrary,trusting and fellowshiping with someone who continues to hurt us can very well jepardize our fellowship with God. To be forgiving does not mean to forsake wisdom and good sense."
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rascal
Socks, I have only ONE thing to say to you....*a soft answere turneth away wrath*
Thanks guy :-)
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mj412
Repent means to change your mind.
how many times can a person change their mind about something?
I can not claim to know what a man or woman really thinks in his mind,we often are surprised by the fact no one really knows all yet God can and does. hence He is the one who forgives.
whitedove right on the fact common sense is the reason Jesus really couldnt witness to his home town very well. common sense told them who He was to them, just a carpeners son. We have a spirt as well that protects and guides for that very purpose in life other wise How would we know?
to protect is not license to hurtor destroy another another.
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mj412
ok do not twist the words here to be a victim Rascal I never said any such thing nor was vpw or lcm ever charged with rape.
do not get so excited you have to lie or warp what someone said or did into what you may think only.
you truly make your own testimony invalid .
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rascal
Hmmm, I think repent has a little deeper meaning than simply *changing ones mind* lol
If as you suggest, that *God knows their hearts AND they repent AND they ask God to forgive*...AND he does great!
If *I* know their heart, AND that they have repented, AND that they ask ME to forgive....THEN like God, so will I ....untill then, it is not my place nor any of my business:-)
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rascal
*not being charged* is certainly not equal to not guily....Lol, reread what I said, I wasn`t warping what you said, I was discussing vp, craig n the twi leaders ... and what MY opinion concerning their sins...and of those who WEREN`T angered by what they did.
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mj412
again with the thinking do a word study on the word repent Rascal and that is all it truly means in the bible .
to change your mind , and be forgiven .
I can not claim to know anyones "heart" what the hell kind of term is that? where did ya learn that? oh ok.
if your are using a twi term here which I suppose you are I will supose you mean a person inner most thoughts / their definition.
no one really knows anothers inner thoughts Rascal except God.
no one. we have all been led astray . the liars of the world do not reveal their inner most thoughts by a long shot for sure.
I do forgive I forgive because I have been forgiven and some day down the line God forbid I may need it again untill we are all made perfect I suppose everyone might.
so I forgive knowing I have been forgiven and can freely ask for it again. From those I love for those I do not love.
it is a staple of a sane society .
or we can all have our hands on the hips and shout at one another the wrongs each has done and never ever have any peace or love in our life.
it is a choice . I do not wait till somone asks for forgivness some can never pay for the hurt they cause my life but I can continue to ask God to bless their life and my own with peace and safety and love and all the goodness of having a LORD brings. I have hurt others we all have been guilty of misunderstanding and pain towards others I want forgivness so I give it .
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rascal
and you are to be congratulated, as I can certainly see that forgiveness in your every post, Dear....kindda gives me a warm feeling...sniff... right here....(thumping my chest)...
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mj412
If that is the case Rascal then
I think God loves vpw and martindale and everyone just the same.
I do not think anyone earned their way into the kingdom I think Jesus christ did.
that is so twi.. oh they will pay for hurting like you are able to sic God on another one of His own children someday. (Ifind this to be evil and gross)
it isnt about flesh Rascal it is about spirits. WE do not fight flesh and blood we fight an enemy of thoughts in our mind one of which is the religous one of being so self righteous another needs to die . hence the cruxifying of the ONLY perfect Son of God.
If I had to live in a world where I was so filled with bitterness and hate I thought about how another child of God is going to suffer and pay for hurting me , and made it my mission in life , I wouldnt want to see another day.
But thank God I do not live in that world I know the very grace of God is granted to All today by the shed blood of Gods Holy Son, and all things will work together for good and someday we will all live together agin in peace and love with HIM and God.
it is a choice.
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rascal
As far as the spiritual battle, sigh...apparently, some are more willing to entertain the spirits than to stand and fight against the evil ... eh?
Suppose that is why they recieve the consequences of their actions....one of them being, everyone discovering what scum bags they were when they viley they betrayed their ministry and their trust:-)
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