Trolls? That's quite harsh to say. I don't think the intent of the starting of this thread was bad. It turned bad though. I think people read way too much in to things and then speak way too much. I never once took the intent of this thread to be a finger-pointing session. I took it as something to think about or blow off. That's all.
I don't think forgiveness is a requirement to be godly or righteous. I think it does, however, benefit the forgiver a lot. I know from personal experience. It may not be that way for someone else though. I do not think that to forgive requires the offender to apologize. But if someone feels that way, let them. We are all different. Hell, we are not waybots anymore.
I would think that because we came from a cult where there was no tolerance of difference that we would be more flexible to accept difference (especially in opinions) without namecalling and disrespect. Obviously forgiveness means something different to each of us. We all give or don't give it for various reasons.
Well this thread has been interesting to say the least.
Since no one has mentioned this verse I thought I'd throw it in the mix.
Matthew 6 KJV
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 6 Amplified Bible
14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [1] reckless and willful sins, [2] leaving them, letting them go, and [3] giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [4] reckless and willful sins, [5] leaving them, letting them go, and [6] giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.
Matthew 6 American Standard Version
14 "(1) For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 "But (2) if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
Good morning folks. Wow this thread got some action over the weekend.
I'd like to fly this trial balloon and see how long it takes for it to be sliced and diced and carved into oblivion:
Catcup said:
quote:I am reminded of what my husband tells me all the time: "It's not 'I love you if, or I love you when, or I love you until'-- it's 'I love you.' period." Unconditional love is what God shares with us, and it is what my husband and I strive to give each other. And it is what people seem they could be extending when they forgive someone who seems unforgivable.
Or forgive someone who's dead, and can't make restitution or answer back with "I'm Sorry" when confronted with their evil acts. That doesn't mean VPW didn't do horrible things, what it means is those who consider themselves followers of the Lord should try to see it from the Lord's viewpoint:
(note that this is the very same book in the bible that some use as an excuse not to forgive, unless there is repentence first.)
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
how'd ya like to have a website dedicated to your evil acts, relentless accusations about you, for all to see? And ya can't respond ...
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
ex, I would have to agree, why is it all or nothing?
forgiveness is a concept on a continuum ...not an all or nothing or mandatory action.
I think my perspective is not so black and white as a "fundamental christian" and I cannot put the whole idea in a neat little "to do it or not to do it" treadmill.
I guess that means we aren't going to see The List.
So be it. I guess, well. Dunno.
I'm very disappointed, Song. You've, well, you've kind of let me down here.
But you're forgiven.
(you knew that was coming, right? c'mon, gimme at least a chuckle or two, it took awhile to set that up. I knew there wasn't going to A List, but at least, we got a laugh! This ain't easy, it looks easy but it ain't. Takes time, experience, skill and patience. Please, if you're watching - don't try this at home!)
"Awww, I don't get no respect, no respect. When I was born, the Doc, he spanked my mother! My Dad slapped him! He said 'Lemme do that!'...awww, I don't get no respect. No respect!"
Ah socks,
Your great mercy and grace proceeds you. I accept my forgiveness with all the laughter my soul can produce.
Forgive me again that I have let you down, such forgiveness is a wellspring of refreshing cool water. I will have to disappoint ya many more a time to have drink your forgiveness. 7 times 70 worth I suppose is the tolerence level eh! :D--> backathca and again :D-->
And i do thank you when you wrote
quote: Show
the
list.
~~~i realised i should have not raised my shillelagh so quickly. For me to sport such a defamation of good peoples peoples name for public view became an ill that sunk mine heart. You are correct that there was not going to be a list. That list has already been spoken, but never forgotten. The respect needs not to be spanked about enny no more.
But I do ask that if a good friend comes to your door and requests to speak outside and then produces a caste iron frying pan and introduces it flat side squarley to your face so that you feel the lawn on your back and see stars in pure daylight, and all ya hear is his smirking laugh and see him walk away, what would you do?
"Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Mercy is the withholding of merited condemnation.
That's was Jesus thinks, what do you think?"
I kinda dig Hevy Revy chapter 19 and verses 9 through 21. Suits me just fine!!!
Next of all~~~ Father I forgive all the billions who have died to make room for the next billions who live to die and also all those after my breath becomes a wind whether up or down.
Ahhhh~~~ The ultimate FORGIVENESS."Father I forgive the Devil HISSSelf and YOU for making him.
Now, whew that was refreshing.
Now I can enter the Confessional and say~~~ "Father bless me for I have not sinned."
quote:how'd ya like to have a website dedicated to your evil acts, relentless accusations about you, for all to see? And ya can't respond ...
I think if ole VeePee had lived his life more honestly and apologized for his bad things WHEN HE WAS ALIVE, there wouldn't be a reason for him to have to respond. He chose to be in the limelight. He made himself the MOG. He liked it. He hurt some people really bad. Because he didn't take care of this business before he died, here we are talking about his bads.
I would like to hope that I don't leave this world in such a bad manner.
none of this was this thick untill he died tho. maybe because the internet was not here maybe because LCM got involved I cant say but I did read the other day in one of his books how vpw wanted others to think well of him .
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Shellon
Geek and Catcup trolls???
Oh for crying out loud!
Do you have any! idea what those two have done for folks that have left the prisons of TWI?
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Nottawayfer
Trolls? That's quite harsh to say. I don't think the intent of the starting of this thread was bad. It turned bad though. I think people read way too much in to things and then speak way too much. I never once took the intent of this thread to be a finger-pointing session. I took it as something to think about or blow off. That's all.
I don't think forgiveness is a requirement to be godly or righteous. I think it does, however, benefit the forgiver a lot. I know from personal experience. It may not be that way for someone else though. I do not think that to forgive requires the offender to apologize. But if someone feels that way, let them. We are all different. Hell, we are not waybots anymore.
I would think that because we came from a cult where there was no tolerance of difference that we would be more flexible to accept difference (especially in opinions) without namecalling and disrespect. Obviously forgiveness means something different to each of us. We all give or don't give it for various reasons.
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WhiteDove
Well this thread has been interesting to say the least.
Since no one has mentioned this verse I thought I'd throw it in the mix.
Matthew 6 KJV
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 6 Amplified Bible
14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [1] reckless and willful sins, [2] leaving them, letting them go, and [3] giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [4] reckless and willful sins, [5] leaving them, letting them go, and [6] giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.
Matthew 6 American Standard Version
14 "(1) For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 "But (2) if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
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Shelly
I use the word "indifference".
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Cherished Child
Yeah, Shelly---"indifference" is more accurate.
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Radar OReilly
Sky4it,
What do you mean?
Radar;
With all due respect, to adhere to old TWI doctrine is "chilling."
Radar
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JustThinking
Radar,
Check your PT.
JT
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mj412
Satori
your kidding I assume. lol
It takes two to tangle and just like JL it may be to much to bother with here. the bible does say to not engage in war over doctrine .
or RG is busy for real.
or this is a lesson in forgivness .
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oldiesman
Good morning folks. Wow this thread got some action over the weekend.
I'd like to fly this trial balloon and see how long it takes for it to be sliced and diced and carved into oblivion:
Catcup said:
Or forgive someone who's dead, and can't make restitution or answer back with "I'm Sorry" when confronted with their evil acts. That doesn't mean VPW didn't do horrible things, what it means is those who consider themselves followers of the Lord should try to see it from the Lord's viewpoint:
(note that this is the very same book in the bible that some use as an excuse not to forgive, unless there is repentence first.)
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
how'd ya like to have a website dedicated to your evil acts, relentless accusations about you, for all to see? And ya can't respond ...
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Mercy is the withholding of merited condemnation.
That's was Jesus thinks, what do you think?
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satori001
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Shellon
LOL satori, ok, it's your story, tell it anyway you want.
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JustThinking
I haven't been part of this thread much and haven't kept up either.
HOWEVER, I will say that I am very glad Catcup is here and has added a lot for me.
Don't know RG as well but have never had any negative impressions.
Neither statement implies we have agreed on everything. If I wanted that, I could have stayed a Wayfer.
Trolls? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha....
JT
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excathedra
One definition of troll:
A person who makes posts (on newsgroups or other forums) that are solely intended to incite controversy or conflict, or cause annoyance or offense.
any of that happening here ?
i think the first or second person to reply knew it was going to happen
--
and geek, you said:
or actually wrong maybe....seriously, did you expect something different than this discussion ?
i think it's great, the discussion, that is. i'm tired of a lot of, shall i say, "christianity"
i hope no one has heart failure that i said that
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oldiesman
Another definition of a troll is a dwarf or giant, in Scandinavian folklore, inhabiting caves or hills.
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DaddyHoundog
ex, I would have to agree, why is it all or nothing?
forgiveness is a concept on a continuum ...not an all or nothing or mandatory action.
I think my perspective is not so black and white as a "fundamental christian" and I cannot put the whole idea in a neat little "to do it or not to do it" treadmill.
Lianne Pierce
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
socks
posted November 07, 2004 21:26
Soooooo...
I guess that means we aren't going to see The List.
So be it. I guess, well. Dunno.
I'm very disappointed, Song. You've, well, you've kind of let me down here.
But you're forgiven.
(you knew that was coming, right? c'mon, gimme at least a chuckle or two, it took awhile to set that up. I knew there wasn't going to A List, but at least, we got a laugh! This ain't easy, it looks easy but it ain't. Takes time, experience, skill and patience. Please, if you're watching - don't try this at home!)
"Awww, I don't get no respect, no respect. When I was born, the Doc, he spanked my mother! My Dad slapped him! He said 'Lemme do that!'...awww, I don't get no respect. No respect!"
Ah socks,
Your great mercy and grace proceeds you. I accept my forgiveness with all the laughter my soul can produce.
Forgive me again that I have let you down, such forgiveness is a wellspring of refreshing cool water. I will have to disappoint ya many more a time to have drink your forgiveness. 7 times 70 worth I suppose is the tolerence level eh!
:D--> backathca and again 
:D-->
And i do thank you when you wrote
~~~i realised i should have not raised my shillelagh so quickly. For me to sport such a defamation of good peoples peoples name for public view became an ill that sunk mine heart. You are correct that there was not going to be a list. That list has already been spoken, but never forgotten. The respect needs not to be spanked about enny no more.
But I do ask that if a good friend comes to your door and requests to speak outside and then produces a caste iron frying pan and introduces it flat side squarley to your face so that you feel the lawn on your back and see stars in pure daylight, and all ya hear is his smirking laugh and see him walk away, what would you do?
Would you endure it 489 more times?
;)-->
Edited by oneyedjackswild1 psLink to comment
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sky4it
Radar:
Sky4it,
What do you mean?
Radar;
With all due respect, to adhere to old TWI doctrine is "chilling."
Simply that, that, the Research method of Christianity, as the "resource" for enlightenment is
chilling , cold, mundane. This opposed to the guide the Holy Spirit.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
"Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Mercy is the withholding of merited condemnation.
That's was Jesus thinks, what do you think?"
I kinda dig Hevy Revy chapter 19 and verses 9 through 21. Suits me just fine!!!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
O me oh my, I need to cover my a here.
First of all I forgive "ME" &&&& all the "WE"s
Next of all~~~ Father I forgive all the billions who have died to make room for the next billions who live to die and also all those after my breath becomes a wind whether up or down.
Ahhhh~~~ The ultimate FORGIVENESS."Father I forgive the Devil HISSSelf and YOU for making him.
Now, whew that was refreshing.
Now I can enter the Confessional and say~~~ "Father bless me for I have not sinned."
Where now do I go from here?
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Nottawayfer
I think if ole VeePee had lived his life more honestly and apologized for his bad things WHEN HE WAS ALIVE, there wouldn't be a reason for him to have to respond. He chose to be in the limelight. He made himself the MOG. He liked it. He hurt some people really bad. Because he didn't take care of this business before he died, here we are talking about his bads.
I would like to hope that I don't leave this world in such a bad manner.
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Radar OReilly
sKY4IT,
Help me out here! I don't understand what you are talking about. I am not much of a researcher, I don't quote scripture and I am lost!!!
Radar
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mj412
none of this was this thick untill he died tho. maybe because the internet was not here maybe because LCM got involved I cant say but I did read the other day in one of his books how vpw wanted others to think well of him .
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sky4it
song:
your comment:
Mercy is the withholding of merited condemnation.
That's was Jesus thinks, what do you think?"
I have already told you what I think. Answer your own question song, what do you think?
And your other post, about forgiving God for making the Devil. Whats with that? New theology
from the first church of the cynic? Why dont u square yourself?
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excathedra
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