Some of his stuff sounds like a Momentus look alike, particularly if its trying to have you take the blame for every single thing that happens to you, and requires that you pledge obedience to what they teach, no matter what. :(-->
I most absoluly agree with using a newer version and not KJV.
But Belle please find a place where you on a regular basis fellowship with believers.
When I share with others and then hear what there strugles and victories are it strengthens me.
Also when we don't fellowship with believers who will we be with but unbelievers. It is better to be here or any where talking about Christ than talking with the world.
I had a service call at a house once and the owner was a Catholic Priest. We had the best conversation talking about how many of our core beliefs were the same. We have more in common with other christians than differances.
Look for the good and go with it. Also pray, and again I say pray. O did I mention prayer. When you are in a moment of confusion seek God often and you will find him.
Belle, trust your instincts girl, twi spent too many years teaching us to ignore them, many times to our detriment.
If you enjoy everything else about the church, why not just ditch the study group?
That being said, I have visited many churches and denominations since my departure....It always seemed like I was there for a *season* and then it was time to move on, I met wonderfull people....learned valuable lessons....but when it was time to go...I knew it...and as time passed, I learned not to feel bad...it is just part of my education and healing process.
You won`t find the spiritual nirvana we thought we had in twi of likemindedness....we have seen the man behind the curtain....but that doesn`t mean we cannot enjoy what our brothers and sisters have to offer...the trick is not to begrudge them their own growth and maturation...they are on their own journey.
Belle your problem, (if I may say) is that due to the garbage endured in twi, your bull sh-t o meter is extremely fine tuned and sensative hon, Stick with this group as long as it is beneficial, it isn`t necessary to agree with everthing...but when you have had enough, it`s time to go...God has lessons for you some place further down the road.
That doesn`t negate this stop or the role that it has played in preparing you for the next step.
I don't mean this to sound like critcism - please don't take it that way - but...
Is there someone, other than yourself, who is obligating you to take this class or hang with this group?
You can't forget the experiences you had with TWI or anything else that has turned you off to this teaching you are now trying to swollow - and it sounds like YOU are expecting yourself to swollow an elephant!
Again, no offence intended, but do you think that going to church will rid you of Waybrain?
It sounds as though you like the fellowship aspect that this church offers. I would join a church if I felt I needed fellowship, too. If I needed to strengthen my relationship with God, I would work on that one-on-one relationship. I certainly wouldn't be in a hurry for any classes because of the Waybrain thing - much like youself.
Somethings to consider....
The pace that you keep to take this class or any other "spiritual paths", should be one of your choosing. If it's not sitting well with you perhaps you need to remove yourself from it or create some distance, at least. Perhaps call in "sick" for a little while. See how you feel about it after a break. Maybe you'll miss it - maybe you'll be better for it. Only you will know that.
Also consider - what do you have to loose if you decide to drop the class? Are you sticking with it because you "made a committment" and still find the teaching are crapola? Maybe dropping this class would be the best thing for you - may it's not "waybrain" but that you have different beliefs than they do because of what you've been taught. Is that wrong? Maybe they are.
Just some "food for thought" -- the decisions, as always, are yours to make.
Boy, this thread rings familiar with me... I've tried various churches but sooner or later (usually sooner) a hot-button is hit and I just want to bolt out the door.
And just like the comments here point out, I realized it was partially that I am hyper-sensative to never wanting to be forced to stay where I'm not happy, ever, ever again. And partially that I still feel a sense of wanting to please the people around me (one of the big reasons I got sucked into twi, and stayed in so awfully long).
I think the best advice here is think it through, decide if what you like outweighs what you don't like, realize that you don't HAVE to agree with or like EVERYTHING about the group, and also realize that you are completely free to leave whenever you want. It's amazing how difficult these ideas can be once you've been in a cult.
Congratulations on stepping out on your own. I'll echo what the others have said. Trust your gut. That is something the way vehimently taught against - they said you didn't have it within you to judge anything and all had to be judged by an external standard (the word).
One other thing I'd encourage - don't look at everything as right and wrong. Try to see it as helpful or not. It's easier to trust your gut that way. Something may be helpful today and not what you need tomorrow (or vise versa). Right and wrong seem so cast in stone.
And don't feel you have to do anything with the Bible or church unless you want to and your gut tells you it's helpful.
Of course, feel free to reject my advice totally if your gut tells you to! Because you are free now.
The best advise I got was not to go to a fellowship of any kind for a year. Going to a fellowship was an addiction for me. I hear some of my best friends to this day saying, "I need fellowship" like it's crack. Good thing their not Moses, I bet he would have given anything to be alone every once in a while once the children of israel got into the wilderness, or what about Paul's 14 yr exile?
Anyway, don't go to a fellowship for one year and see what happens.
I went to a church which studied that book for awhile, but we didn't listen to videos of the guy who wrote the book. I think a video would have kept me from being involved. I made a pact to NEVER sit through a Bible class again. We just heard bits and pieces of the book at a sermon and then our small groups tracked with the reading from that week. We talked at our small groups, but only if we wanted to. We had a larger groups of about 13 women, so if someone decided not to talk it wasn't noticed too much. A group of 4 would make it a little more noticeable.
I was glad I read the book. It didn't remind me of twi at all, but I didn't retain it like I did the many times I took pfal and wap. I don't feel the need to ever do that again. It was really just about fellowship for me.
I did wait awhile before I found a church I liked. When I first left twi I went to a lot of offshoots of twi. They all made me ill and reminded me too much of twi. I realized I didn't want twi. So then I went to a few churches. I wasn't ready to go to church so I took a rest for awhile.
When I was ready, the exact church I needed was right there. I got a lot of healing from my twi experience at that church in a divorce care group. I didn't expect that at all, but leaving twi was like a divorce for me because I put more trust in that organization than I ever did in anything until now.
As you know, I recently got married and moved to another state. We went to the church my husband was involved with. The pastor at that church grated on me, and he made some inappropriate comments about one of our friends who used to go to our church. We quit going because of his attitude and told him so. He apologized for hurting our feelings....sounds so much like twi leadership. So you can't always escape bs like we saw in twi, but you don't have to stay around. We see this pastor in shopping a lot (small town), but I just smile, say hi and move on.
I think the big thing for me is to realize that nothing is perfect. Coming from twi that was a hard pill to swollow because I thought twi was perfect for at least 2/3 or the 20 years I was involved in it.
I think that since there are only maybe 3 weeks left of this thing that I'll try to stick it out, but if I have to endure another night like this week I will tell them I just can't stomach it. The other weeks haven't been that bad. I think most of it is just the "small group" thing and the class type atmosphere I really hate.
I should not have signed up for something like this so soon, but since there are only 4 people in my group I think I should try to finish it. Chas, you're absolutely right that I still have this guilt because I "made a commitment" to the group for the duration of the class.
This is partially how I ended up staying in TWI for so long....putting up with crap to please others.... I'm just feeling very suffocated by all this. They call to check on me, invite me to dinner, to go to the movies, if I miss church, etc. It's definitely too much. I will talk with my friend and explain things to her and maybe go to the services only once a month or so. (I really do enjoy the services, just not this PDL crap.)
I'm travelling quite a bit for the next few months so I won't be in town most week-ends.
I wish I had time to respond to each of you individually. Thank you so much, all of you, for taking the time to respond!! You've helped more than you can know.
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ex70sHouston
I know when I took it there were several of the tapes that I didnt agree with. I never finished the class.
This is one of those series that sound good and they get them in. Its a classic case of some good teaching mixed in with trash.
I listen to the sermon every week. That doesnt mean that I take hold of it.
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GarthP2000
Some of his stuff sounds like a Momentus look alike, particularly if its trying to have you take the blame for every single thing that happens to you, and requires that you pledge obedience to what they teach, no matter what.
:(-->
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Zshot
Belle,
Trust your instincts.
If you think you need to put on your walking shoes and move on, do it.
Sometimes, when people leave twi, they need time to get things into perspective.
If you choose to continue to read the Bible, try a different version than the KJV.
(sometimes when reading the KJV, waybrain tends to creep into what you are reading).
Maybe, you might not want to go to any church or Bible activity for awhile...
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ex70sHouston
Zshot hold your horses there partner.
I most absoluly agree with using a newer version and not KJV.
But Belle please find a place where you on a regular basis fellowship with believers.
When I share with others and then hear what there strugles and victories are it strengthens me.
Also when we don't fellowship with believers who will we be with but unbelievers. It is better to be here or any where talking about Christ than talking with the world.
I had a service call at a house once and the owner was a Catholic Priest. We had the best conversation talking about how many of our core beliefs were the same. We have more in common with other christians than differances.
Look for the good and go with it. Also pray, and again I say pray. O did I mention prayer. When you are in a moment of confusion seek God often and you will find him.
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rascal
Belle, trust your instincts girl, twi spent too many years teaching us to ignore them, many times to our detriment.
If you enjoy everything else about the church, why not just ditch the study group?
That being said, I have visited many churches and denominations since my departure....It always seemed like I was there for a *season* and then it was time to move on, I met wonderfull people....learned valuable lessons....but when it was time to go...I knew it...and as time passed, I learned not to feel bad...it is just part of my education and healing process.
You won`t find the spiritual nirvana we thought we had in twi of likemindedness....we have seen the man behind the curtain....but that doesn`t mean we cannot enjoy what our brothers and sisters have to offer...the trick is not to begrudge them their own growth and maturation...they are on their own journey.
Belle your problem, (if I may say) is that due to the garbage endured in twi, your bull sh-t o meter is extremely fine tuned and sensative hon, Stick with this group as long as it is beneficial, it isn`t necessary to agree with everthing...but when you have had enough, it`s time to go...God has lessons for you some place further down the road.
That doesn`t negate this stop or the role that it has played in preparing you for the next step.
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ChasUFarley
I don't mean this to sound like critcism - please don't take it that way - but...
Is there someone, other than yourself, who is obligating you to take this class or hang with this group?
You can't forget the experiences you had with TWI or anything else that has turned you off to this teaching you are now trying to swollow - and it sounds like YOU are expecting yourself to swollow an elephant!
Again, no offence intended, but do you think that going to church will rid you of Waybrain?
It sounds as though you like the fellowship aspect that this church offers. I would join a church if I felt I needed fellowship, too. If I needed to strengthen my relationship with God, I would work on that one-on-one relationship. I certainly wouldn't be in a hurry for any classes because of the Waybrain thing - much like youself.
Somethings to consider....
The pace that you keep to take this class or any other "spiritual paths", should be one of your choosing. If it's not sitting well with you perhaps you need to remove yourself from it or create some distance, at least. Perhaps call in "sick" for a little while. See how you feel about it after a break. Maybe you'll miss it - maybe you'll be better for it. Only you will know that.
Also consider - what do you have to loose if you decide to drop the class? Are you sticking with it because you "made a committment" and still find the teaching are crapola? Maybe dropping this class would be the best thing for you - may it's not "waybrain" but that you have different beliefs than they do because of what you've been taught. Is that wrong? Maybe they are.
Just some "food for thought" -- the decisions, as always, are yours to make.
Peace.
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Steve!
Shewt, I have trouble just sitting through a Cub Scouts meeting - and it's been 12 or 13 years since my last Bible-type fellowship.
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TheHighWay
Boy, this thread rings familiar with me... I've tried various churches but sooner or later (usually sooner) a hot-button is hit and I just want to bolt out the door.
And just like the comments here point out, I realized it was partially that I am hyper-sensative to never wanting to be forced to stay where I'm not happy, ever, ever again. And partially that I still feel a sense of wanting to please the people around me (one of the big reasons I got sucked into twi, and stayed in so awfully long).
I think the best advice here is think it through, decide if what you like outweighs what you don't like, realize that you don't HAVE to agree with or like EVERYTHING about the group, and also realize that you are completely free to leave whenever you want. It's amazing how difficult these ideas can be once you've been in a cult.
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My3Cents
Belle,
Congratulations on stepping out on your own. I'll echo what the others have said. Trust your gut. That is something the way vehimently taught against - they said you didn't have it within you to judge anything and all had to be judged by an external standard (the word).
One other thing I'd encourage - don't look at everything as right and wrong. Try to see it as helpful or not. It's easier to trust your gut that way. Something may be helpful today and not what you need tomorrow (or vise versa). Right and wrong seem so cast in stone.
And don't feel you have to do anything with the Bible or church unless you want to and your gut tells you it's helpful.
Of course, feel free to reject my advice totally if your gut tells you to! Because you are free now.
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rascal
Rofl 3 cents
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Tumbleweed Kid
Belle,
The best advise I got was not to go to a fellowship of any kind for a year. Going to a fellowship was an addiction for me. I hear some of my best friends to this day saying, "I need fellowship" like it's crack. Good thing their not Moses, I bet he would have given anything to be alone every once in a while once the children of israel got into the wilderness, or what about Paul's 14 yr exile?
Anyway, don't go to a fellowship for one year and see what happens.
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Nottawayfer
Belle,
I went to a church which studied that book for awhile, but we didn't listen to videos of the guy who wrote the book. I think a video would have kept me from being involved. I made a pact to NEVER sit through a Bible class again. We just heard bits and pieces of the book at a sermon and then our small groups tracked with the reading from that week. We talked at our small groups, but only if we wanted to. We had a larger groups of about 13 women, so if someone decided not to talk it wasn't noticed too much. A group of 4 would make it a little more noticeable.
I was glad I read the book. It didn't remind me of twi at all, but I didn't retain it like I did the many times I took pfal and wap. I don't feel the need to ever do that again. It was really just about fellowship for me.
I did wait awhile before I found a church I liked. When I first left twi I went to a lot of offshoots of twi. They all made me ill and reminded me too much of twi. I realized I didn't want twi. So then I went to a few churches. I wasn't ready to go to church so I took a rest for awhile.
When I was ready, the exact church I needed was right there. I got a lot of healing from my twi experience at that church in a divorce care group. I didn't expect that at all, but leaving twi was like a divorce for me because I put more trust in that organization than I ever did in anything until now.
As you know, I recently got married and moved to another state. We went to the church my husband was involved with. The pastor at that church grated on me, and he made some inappropriate comments about one of our friends who used to go to our church. We quit going because of his attitude and told him so. He apologized for hurting our feelings....sounds so much like twi leadership. So you can't always escape bs like we saw in twi, but you don't have to stay around. We see this pastor in shopping a lot (small town), but I just smile, say hi and move on.
I think the big thing for me is to realize that nothing is perfect. Coming from twi that was a hard pill to swollow because I thought twi was perfect for at least 2/3 or the 20 years I was involved in it.
Just be where you are the happiest.
;)-->
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Belle
Thanks so much, y'all!
I think that since there are only maybe 3 weeks left of this thing that I'll try to stick it out, but if I have to endure another night like this week I will tell them I just can't stomach it. The other weeks haven't been that bad. I think most of it is just the "small group" thing and the class type atmosphere I really hate.
I should not have signed up for something like this so soon, but since there are only 4 people in my group I think I should try to finish it. Chas, you're absolutely right that I still have this guilt because I "made a commitment" to the group for the duration of the class.
This is partially how I ended up staying in TWI for so long....putting up with crap to please others.... I'm just feeling very suffocated by all this. They call to check on me, invite me to dinner, to go to the movies, if I miss church, etc. It's definitely too much. I will talk with my friend and explain things to her and maybe go to the services only once a month or so. (I really do enjoy the services, just not this PDL crap.)
I'm travelling quite a bit for the next few months so I won't be in town most week-ends.
I wish I had time to respond to each of you individually. Thank you so much, all of you, for taking the time to respond!! You've helped more than you can know.
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