Bob, an excellent dissection of the deceit impregnated in TWI's attempt at explaining themselves to unsuspecting visitors to their website. I wish there were some way to post that warning ON their website AND at Wierwille Road and Highway 29. I have only one more thing to add:
I have seen several posts throughout GreaseSpotCafe that indicate people are unsure about why TWI counts the year 1942 as it's beginning. Here is why:
On October 3, 1942 was the very first radio broadcast of the Vesper Chimes Youth Caravan program, Dr. Wierwille's first efforts at reaching out beyond his congregation to the world. That is why TWI celebrates their anniversary on October 3 and dates the beginning to the year 1942.
I think there is some confusion because the very first Power For Abundant Living Class was run in October, but that was in 1953. Dorothea Wierwille mentions it also in her book Born Again To Serve (p. 41) where she documents the details of the history of basically TWI I.
Many of us wondered why she stopped so soon in describing the history of TWI and did not mention handing the ministry over to LCM.
I think it was Dotsie's way of making her own personal statement. Read it any way you like.
Bought Dorothy's book (required), never read it. Nothing against her, but it was hard to read anything TWI was putting out then. It was all the same thing, over and over again. Abundant life, prevailing, household, ... enough already!
I don't think it is honest to claim that date as the starting of their "ministry." The first class would be more appropriate. Even better would be when Victor actually split off from his church and started his own thing.
BTW: Who did Victor rip off PFAL from? From what I understand, Victor took a class somewhere in Canada, took his notes and converted it into his own class, even using the same personal examples.
Catcup...Mrs. Wierwille stopped her bio of her husband in the very early 60's, when they moved their "headquarters" to the family farm with financial underwriting by Harry W. It didn't even cover the expansion in Ohio, let alone the filming of PFAL, the "hippies" and the Way Corps.
I'm a big history buff, so I really got into TWI's history while I was in. Now that I'm out the idea that those in power write the history is very evident in TWI. What Vic and Harry did to raise money to live like they wanted is far from believing God will provide. In the early days Harry and Vic even raised Mink for the pelts and other money making things to keep the ministry going. But once they figured out the formula for collecting money from the pie-eyed masses flocking to be fleeced by old Doc Vic they ditched the work. Keeping the old farm boy looks made it easy for two city slickers to milk their cash cow.
Don't let New Knoxville fool you, Vic and Harry spent much time in the big cities and abroad learning how to ply their trade, old P.T. Barnum would be proud of Harry and Vic. Heck the only thing P.T. would change is to add three rings under the "Big Top" auditorium and use saw dust instead of astro-turf. But surely since 1942 for Vic a sucker was born every minute, and some times they were his own children.
Me, I thought 1942 was for the snow on the pumps. Was the radio program
the same year?
I don't know when the hallucination of the snow on the pumps was, but I recall they always dated the anniversary of the organization from the Vesper Chimes broadcast. (I was in from 1970 - the mid 80's)
Thanks for the info, Catcup and 3Cents. I edited that info on Wordwolf's "Rough Recollections - History" thread.
The 1985 brochure on TWI history says that Wierwille started intensively studying the Bible "in the late summer of 1942," after Rosalind Rinker spoke with him. After that he had the vision. VP supposedly was looking at a "crystal blue, autumn sky" before the blizzard. Then the radio program began "approximately one month after God audibly spoke to him," on October 3rd.
The point is still clear -- Wierwille exaggerated the time frame to make TWI look more legitimate.
Thanks for the info on the history part. I'll try to update it later today and merge it in. I'll add a link to the "History and Overview of TWI" thread also.
For the more abundant life, I do recall now that their writings did point at material abundance. Christians Should Be Prosperous comes to mind. At the same time, their live teachings did not promote this with any emphasis (that I recall, outside of "it should be this way"). Reality certaintly did not prove the writings, with most TWI'ers living at the subsistance level. Their teachings seemed to make an attempt at times to redefine abundance as being spiritual. I'll see what I can do with it.
A link to a page/site that has all the plagerism documented in one place would be useful. Does one exist? If not, perhaps a thread that pulls it all together would be useful.
Thank you for your comments. I really appreciate them.
This is an absolutely wonderful dissection of claims TWI makes on it's website.
But I do have to make this one point.
Regarding how TWI celebrates its anniversary, if VPW wanted to exaggerate the length of time of his ministry to impress people, he could have claimed to have started it earlier, like when he began his first pastorate in 1941. But he didn't.
He began pastoring people much earlier than that. However, he didn't count from that date, he counted from when he felt his personal ministry began, which was with the Chimes Hour Youth Caravan. And it was celebrated every year from that date.
For example, in 1943, it was ONLY a one year anniversary. Not so impressive, eh? But the one year anniversary of Chimes Hour Youth Caravan was celebrated in 1943, and every year since then.
There are sooooooooooo many areas that VPW DID exaggerate, that it is not necessary for us to do the same thing by trying to make it appear VPW was stretching the truth regarding when the anniversary actually began.
IMO, there are far more LEGITIMATE areas of concern than this one. We only hurt our own credibility when we are the pot calling the kettle black.
I took the AC in '84 at Emporia. VP was there for some of it. He showed us these old films of PFAL bloopers. This was in '63 and he was saying, "Welcome to the internationally famous class on power for abundant living." He did 4 takes in the film. Weird thing was, he was laughing at it like he thought it was stupid.
I mentioned to someone recently that I spent a couple of weeks in Kansas, he asked where, I said "Emporia", and he said, "Gawd, the only place I know of worse than there is Emporia, Virginia!"
A short chronology of events taken from Born Again to Serve by Dorothea Wierwille and The Way Living With Love by Elena Whiteside:
June 1941: "VPW was ordained into the Christian ministry in the Evangelical and Reformed Church in New Knoxville, Ohio, his home church since birth."
July 6, 1941: "VPW accepted the call to the Payne church and was installed there as a minister for St. Jacob’s Evangelical and Reformed Church."
July 23, 1942: "VPW’s outreach beyond the congregation began with a column called 'Religion in the Weekly' in the local weekly newspaper, The Payne Reflector."
Summer of 1942: "VPW brought Rosalind Rinker to their home to meet with her privately and began germinating the idea of producing a radio broadcast in which young people from our church and other community churches would entertain with Christian music and he would teach... In preparation for broadcasting, Rev. Wierwille wrote short sermons regularly, writing about things that he had learned from various situations of his life. Soon Higley Press published some of these articles."
“In the fall of the year, after Rosalind left” was the “snow on the gas pumps” experience according to VPW as quoted by Elena Whiteside in The Way Living With Love: "Then Rosalind left. It was the fall of the year. Kids were back in school already. It must have been September. I was sitting in my office, an old dentist's office..." ect.
October 3, 1942: VPW’s first radio broadcast, his ..."First radio program designed to teach principles of the abundant life through musical performances and scriptural messages." Says Wierwille, "This broadcast got me back to digging the Word… made me go to the Word for two or three new teachings a week. It got me into the Word, got me growing in it, and kept me fluid. All of the other religious programs used adults. But I though if we started with young people, it would grow into something and the adults might catch on.”
Of all the above incidents, at least to VP Wierwille, the incident that was significant to him as to the starting of his personal ministry, is the date October 3, the date of the beginning of the Chimes Hour Youth Caravan program, not the snow on the gas pumps experience, nor was it the 1941 date of his ordination which he could have chosen to use if his motivation was to "exaggerate."
Good point about exaggeration; but I think it depends on when he started referring to anniversaries of his "ministry". If he started doing it in 1943, the difference between 1941 and 1942 would be trivial, I agree. There is every indication that his "ministry" was a side project for much of the 40's anyway.
If he started celebrating anniversaries in, say, the late sixties, like when he filmed PFAL, or when growth began to accelerate, adding a decade or fifteen years to the "ministry's" longevity would be significant.
Another problem for me: if 1942 was so significant as the beginning of what would become The Way, and he accomplished so much "digging the Word", why was he again ready to "chuck it all" in 1953 (or was it '52?) when he went to Tulsa?
VPW experienced a lot of disappointment in denominational religion while pastoring his church. For the details, check The Way Living With Love and Born Again to Serve, where the reasons for this are discussed extensively.
But I do see where the argument starts in the difference between when VPW marked what he felt was the beginning of his personal ministry (Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, October 3, 1942) and the incorporation of The Way.
However, the words "The Way" were linked very early to Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, long before The Way itself was incorporated. This is where the confusion enters. "The Way" was a title VPW used in association with his personal ministry even while working for his denomination.
On page 63 of Dotsie’s book there is a photograph of an old Chimes Hour Young People's Publication (forerunner of the Way rag), and at the top of the page it plainly says in large print, "The Way Chimes Hour Young People's Publication". This publication began in 1947. Chimes Hour Youth Caravan itself began as stated earlier on October 3, 1942.
Just five short successful years later, Articles of Incorporation for The Chimes Hour Youth Caravan are dated October 30, 1947, no. 204759 with the Ohio secretary of state.
So, the term “The Way” can be documented as associated in print with VPW’s ministry at least as early as 1947.
On July 24 to 17, 1952, Wierwille planned a weekend camp at a campground at Grand Lake St. Mary’s Ohio in celebration of the tenth anniversary year. Speakers at the celebration:
Tom Lasher, a chemist who had been healed from terrible burns received in an explosion who imparted to the hearers the importance of physical touch.
Jeff Rogers of the Race Relations Department of the Evangelical and Reformed denomination, who taught on “Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself”
Dr. Stuart Hydanus, a professor of astronomy and archaeology whom VPW had met at Pikes Peak Seminary, whose specialty was proving the detailed accuracy of the Bible through astronomy and archaeology.
BTW, since VPW still held pastorate at this time with his denomination, we can only assume they accepted his doctorate from Pikes Peak Seminary.
June 12, 1955, change in articles of incorporation for Chimes Hour Youth Caravan: On pages 110 and 111 of Born Again to Serve are the details and copy of the Resolution of Amendment Articles of Incorporation to Change Name of Corporation and to Amend It’s Purpose Clause. This action changing the name of Victor Paul Wierwille’s ministry officially from Chimes Hour Youth Caravan to The Way, Inc. on June 12, 1955. The ministry itself did not change. It changed the name to include only “The Way” which title had been blended with the Youth Caravan in practice, and had become more and more preferred. The title “The Way” was associated with this ministry long before the name officially changed. It is a continuation of the same ministry that began in 1942 with the radio broadcast.
The third article to this resolution continues the ministry’s purpose as, “The purpose or purposes for which said corporation is formed are: For the furtherance of the gospel of Jesus Christ by radio, or by personal appearance.” This is what he was already doing. To this was added another entire paragraph including television (the emerging technology at the time), the printed page, and all things incident thereto…” etc. etc.
November 1955: The Wierwille family (minus JP) travel to India to inspect the foreign missions of the Evangelical Reformed church.
When the first international PFAL class was run in 1957, The Way still considered itself part of the Evangelical Reformed Church-- as evidenced by the sign over the heads of the class members who posed for a pic back then (p.214 of Dotsie's book).
So there was a “blending” of VPW’s personal ministry of “The Way” with Wierwille’s The Chimes Hour Youth Caravan and throughout his relationship with Evangelical and Reformed church.
Dotsie says it was in August of 1957 that VPW submitted his letter of resignation from St. Peters Church to "go into the full-time research, teaching and fellowship ministry of The Way as of December 1957.” A copy of this letter is in Born Again to Serve.
Dotsie adds, “Of course, there was also a pressured undercurrent from the hierarchy of the denomination to do so since the publishing of The Dilemma of Foreign Missions in India."
This publication outlined VPW's disappointment at the condition of the missions of his denomination in India when he visited them, and was the final nail in the coffin of his relationship with organized religion and his denomination. He basically blew the whistle on how poorly the Indians were being treated by the denomination, which made his church rather uncomfortable. I have a copy of this book myself, and it is rather scathing towards the denomination. But he was right on the money calling them racist imperialists.
So you can see that with just a little effort looking things up in two publications, that the term “The Way” has a very early association with Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, and that the ministry in fact had a 10 year celebration in 1952.
I do not deny the damage this man eventually did to untold numbers of people. But it behooves us to be as accurate as possible if we are going to accuse someone of something. Just ask Radar and those of us who were subject to deposition by TWI’s attorneys.
Well yeah, I guess he WAS dissapointed in his denomination...Darn em, they took a very dim view of his um ministering to his secretary, according to many of the locals.
Catcup, as much as I respect you, I think that when you conduct your research into the back ground of vp and his ministry, utilizing their publications....you are certainly going to find a rather sanitized view of the events....Consider that in quoting THEIR materials, in order to make your point, that you could very well be guilty of spreading misinformation as well.
He was not a man of integrety, he lied to your face...how could one trust ANY material that his group put out? There is no credibility.
But I gave you information off of photographed documents: Actual magazines and legal documents filed with the State of Ohio.
All you have after that is speculation, which can be colored by your opinions and of course your experiences. And emotions not held in check can skew the facts as well.
My opinion of VPW is well documented on this site and on WayDale, and with attorneys for PXXL AXXXN and Baker and Hostetler et al.
I maintain that the best way to be credible to a new person who is considering whether or not to get involved in TWI is to be as accurate as I know how to be. to not let my emotions get in the way of the facts. As upsetting as my experiences were, I have the ability to set them aside and look at "just the facts, ma'am." --And that is important at times in order to be objective-- something we were not allowed to be in TWI.
I cannot speak for your personal experience, but I can certainly speak for mine, AND I HAVE, both here and to legal counsel.
And legal counsel could not refute my testimony because I testified to Baker and Hostetler et al what I personally knew first hand, and to what could actually be documented.
What I have seen on this site lately and more commonly could be shot down in a court of law, very easily. And it hurts your credibility.
Pardon me for being from the "old school" on WayDale where what we said was obviously held to a much higher standard.
But then again, the site was fortunate to be monitored nearly 24 hrs a day by someone with a legal stake in the matter, and that was his full time job.
This site is not, cannot be, and does not try to hold people to the same standard P.A. did. Here, it is more up to the individual to restrain themselves and be as objective and truthful as they can be without constant reminders to people of the legal ramifications of exaggeration. Unfortunately, there are people here who do exaggerate, don't double check their facts, and don't apologize when caught in it.
Perhaps that's why I don't fit in here. I am used to a different, higher standard.
That's all I've got to say. You all can take it or leave it. I've got things to do besides your research for you.
Come on now, quoting from mrs. wierwilles book is hardly gospel nor can it be regarded as impartial, catcup....nor can any of the publications that were published by twi offiliated people be seriously viewed as such.
Simply because our collective experiences wouldn`t hold up in a court of law does not in anyway invalidate what we experienced, what we witnessed,...How we were impacted..and because that is recognised here... praise GOD we are ALLOWED to speak of them here....for some of us...it is the first time ever.
Geeze, I would hardly call THAT a lower standard....different maybe, but absolutely necessary for many in our healing and in continuing on our spiritual journey.
However... if you feel you don`t fit in here well, it might benefit you to examine more closely what IS happening ...You have to consider that we here, by in large are not interested in, nor hampered by having to support anybody`s elses case in a court of law, and so are allowed much more freedom to examine the evil experienced...to speak our minds...explore for and examine the missing pieces and eventually assemble all of the puzzle to view and understand the picture in it`s entirety.....
I am not slamming you, nor do I wish to offend (today anyway ;-) as I feel that there is much you can add here, maybe much to be learned....it would be my hope that you will become comfortable....maybe even come to understand why it is that this place IS a place of blessing and healing...and even though not always fitting with others preconcieved mindsets nor necessarily always nice....It gets the job done.
So consider please that the *lower standard* slam, kind of smacks of arrogance and in reality spits on the enormous good that God has seen fit to accomplish for so many through this web sight.
Catcup, I changed my fact (the anniversary of TWI) when I saw that I was incorrect. I hold to my opinion (that Wierwille exaggerated), even though I hear what you are saying.
I hope you will always feel free to add your knowledge of TWI history to this site. I hope you will not think of it as doing "your research for you."
I do not think of Paw's site as one with "lower standards," just different ones. As I recall, when PA got his settlement and prepared to shut down his site, many were disappointed that he did not live "up" to their "standards." His wasn't lower, either -- just different.
Please note that it was Paw who stepped up and continued the ex-Way exchange of information begun by PA and others before him. Not too shabby, in my opinion.
And yes, I speak as one who also went to court over issues that were complicated by TWI involvement. I won. I went back to court and had to question a witness -- pro se. TWI issues again involved. I won again.
This ain't court. But it sure helps a lot of people, warts and all.
I confess to not having read this whole thread. The only thing I have to add, is that VPW's extra marital affairs, at least one of them, did make the local papers in the 50's.
I don't have the time or inclination to search the Ohio newspaper archives to find the article/articles, but VPW's seperation from his denomination could possibly have much more to do with his "unfitness' as a minister, due to his extra-marital affairs, than anybody associated with TWI or his family wants to admit. Of course, Mrs. W would not address that in her book. For obvious reasons.....sadly. :(-->
I in no way disparage Pawtucket for the wonderful job he does in maintaining this website. Only Pawtucket knows how much it takes out of his life to keep up this site, and it's a far piece more than anyone on here can begin to understand.
P.A. did not work a full time job. WD WAS his full time job. Pawtucket works a full time job AND has both the pleasure and headaches of watching over the cafe. But he simply cannot do it like P.A. And that yes, makes the standards different. How?
On WayDale, P.A. was responsible for keeping up the standard.
ON GSC, you and I are largely responsible for it.
With WD, P.A. was there to step in and ON people who exaggerated or overstepped their bounds. Pawtucket, after posting instructions on the front of the website and doing his best with moderators, must leave it up to the individual poster to monitor his own behavior for the most part. The integrity and credibility of this site is mostly up to the integrity and credibility of each poster.
Pawtucket is leaving it up to US to toe the line. Take personal responsibility. Many people do. Unfortunately, those who do not, take away from the credibility on this site. And that ends up HURTING PEOPLE whether you believe it or not. When people who are still in see exaggerations that they can truthfully identify as exaggerations on this site, it takes away from the credibility of the true incidents shared here by honest and careful posters, and you frankly are not believed. Too much $hit mixed in with the brownies, folks.
For instance, I remember hearing reports in the media back in the mid-seventies that VPW was screwing hoards of women in the Way Corps. However, that same source ALSO made the outrageous claim that the Wierwille silo held a missle and that the barn housed tanks and ammunition because, they claimed, we were a paramilitary organization.
I had been in the Wierwille barn, and seen the silo. There was no missle in the silo and the only thing in the barn besides give-away was an old Ford tractor. I was also in The Way Corps and Dr. Wierwille had not made any advances towards me. So guess who I believed?
Thanks for doing my research for me Catcup ;)--> - I let my ex-wife keep all the Way books and publications - including a stash of Way mags and collateral booklets going way back. I decided that I didn't want any of that in my home, although in retrospect I could participate more effectively in some debates here if I had my old books! :D-->
I agree with you wholeheatedly about things being presented as "fact" that are not. This does hurt our collective credibility. Denominational smear campaigns full of b.s. and fantasies back in the 70's and 80's only strengthened my resolve when I saw their obvious fabrications.
However...
Speculation, IMHO, is fine, as long as it doesn't masquerade as fact.
None of us know Wierwille's true thoughts or motivations, or what he was trying to do by setting the founding of The Way when he did. However, there appears to be a pattern of self aggrandizment: Famous people who took PFAL after they achieved fame have their success credited to PFAL and TWI; worldwide status is claimed when many countries claimed to have a Way presence have a military couple or one small fellowship; originality is claimed when plagarism is the demonstrable fact; world renowned theologians are name-dropped as if they were drinking buddies...etc.
While you provide some insight as to why he might have used the October 1942 date as the founding of "his ministry", the big picture allows flexibility and alternative opinions.
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Catcup
Bob, an excellent dissection of the deceit impregnated in TWI's attempt at explaining themselves to unsuspecting visitors to their website. I wish there were some way to post that warning ON their website AND at Wierwille Road and Highway 29. I have only one more thing to add:
I have seen several posts throughout GreaseSpotCafe that indicate people are unsure about why TWI counts the year 1942 as it's beginning. Here is why:
On October 3, 1942 was the very first radio broadcast of the Vesper Chimes Youth Caravan program, Dr. Wierwille's first efforts at reaching out beyond his congregation to the world. That is why TWI celebrates their anniversary on October 3 and dates the beginning to the year 1942.
I think there is some confusion because the very first Power For Abundant Living Class was run in October, but that was in 1953. Dorothea Wierwille mentions it also in her book Born Again To Serve (p. 41) where she documents the details of the history of basically TWI I.
Many of us wondered why she stopped so soon in describing the history of TWI and did not mention handing the ministry over to LCM.
I think it was Dotsie's way of making her own personal statement. Read it any way you like.
But that's the stow-ry.
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Bob
Ah yes, the radio broadcasts.
Bought Dorothy's book (required), never read it. Nothing against her, but it was hard to read anything TWI was putting out then. It was all the same thing, over and over again. Abundant life, prevailing, household, ... enough already!
I don't think it is honest to claim that date as the starting of their "ministry." The first class would be more appropriate. Even better would be when Victor actually split off from his church and started his own thing.
BTW: Who did Victor rip off PFAL from? From what I understand, Victor took a class somewhere in Canada, took his notes and converted it into his own class, even using the same personal examples.
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Oakspear
Bravo Bob, bravo...well done!
Catcup...Mrs. Wierwille stopped her bio of her husband in the very early 60's, when they moved their "headquarters" to the family farm with financial underwriting by Harry W. It didn't even cover the expansion in Ohio, let alone the filming of PFAL, the "hippies" and the Way Corps.
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Seth R.
I'm a big history buff, so I really got into TWI's history while I was in. Now that I'm out the idea that those in power write the history is very evident in TWI. What Vic and Harry did to raise money to live like they wanted is far from believing God will provide. In the early days Harry and Vic even raised Mink for the pelts and other money making things to keep the ministry going. But once they figured out the formula for collecting money from the pie-eyed masses flocking to be fleeced by old Doc Vic they ditched the work. Keeping the old farm boy looks made it easy for two city slickers to milk their cash cow.
Don't let New Knoxville fool you, Vic and Harry spent much time in the big cities and abroad learning how to ply their trade, old P.T. Barnum would be proud of Harry and Vic. Heck the only thing P.T. would change is to add three rings under the "Big Top" auditorium and use saw dust instead of astro-turf. But surely since 1942 for Vic a sucker was born every minute, and some times they were his own children.
Seth
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WordWolf
Very nice work, Bob.
==========
However, I had one or two comments.
Me, I thought 1942 was for the snow on the pumps. Was the radio program
the same year? I'll need to check.
One objection:
You said twi never defined "more abundant life".
Technically true.
HOWEVER,
the opening chapters of the Blue Book (TBTMS) give examples.
vpw was rather specific that it was something you could see with your
five senses, and was connected with material prosperity in EVERY
example he gave.
=======================
You asked about where vpw plagiarized his material from.
I'll try to cover it very briefly.
Part of it was lifted directly from EW Kenyon's books.
More of it was Bullinger's "How to Enjoy the Bible" and a few smaller
works, including one on the holy spirit field.
Also on the holy spirit field was JE Stiles' "Gifts of the Spirit".
In some cases, identical sentences have been located in parallel books.
Almost everyone admits this is because vpw plagiarized them from the
previous books.
(One or two people think God told vpw to plagiarize them.)
The class you are referring to was taught by BG Leonard.
vpw photocopied the bulk of his pfal class-anything not taken from
Stiles, Bullinger and Kenyon- from BG Leonard's class.
This includes the bulk of the pfal Advanced class.
vpw's "definitions" of the manifestations/"gifts" of the spirit are
long-winded paraphrases of Leonards, changed only to avoid identical
sentences.
Leonard's publishing company: Canadian Christian Press.
vpw's publishing company: American Christian Press.
Leonard's class occasionally used imaginary, hypothetical people as
examples. Their names were: Maggie Muggins (a figure in Canadian
children's tv), Johnny Jumpup (a plant), and Henry Belocco.
vpw's class occasionally used imaginary, hypothetical people as
examples. Their names were: Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup and Henry
Belocco.
Others who have taken BG Leonard's courses can tell you more about what
was ripped off. It seems that hearing he was ripped off so blatantly
did not bless Leonard, who later added elaborate copyrights to his books.
He was also slower to trust strangers, which means vpw probably hampered
Leonard's efforts to move The Word. Then again, does this really
surprise anyone? So long as vpw got his cut, fewer people were ok to
receive blessings.
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My3Cents
I don't know when the hallucination of the snow on the pumps was, but I recall they always dated the anniversary of the organization from the Vesper Chimes broadcast. (I was in from 1970 - the mid 80's)
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shazdancer
Thanks for the info, Catcup and 3Cents. I edited that info on Wordwolf's "Rough Recollections - History" thread.
The 1985 brochure on TWI history says that Wierwille started intensively studying the Bible "in the late summer of 1942," after Rosalind Rinker spoke with him. After that he had the vision. VP supposedly was looking at a "crystal blue, autumn sky" before the blizzard. Then the radio program began "approximately one month after God audibly spoke to him," on October 3rd.
The point is still clear -- Wierwille exaggerated the time frame to make TWI look more legitimate.
Regards,
Shaz
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shazdancer
Awesome job. Bob!
My favorite phrase:
Regards,
Shaz
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Bob
Thanks for the info on the history part. I'll try to update it later today and merge it in. I'll add a link to the "History and Overview of TWI" thread also.
For the more abundant life, I do recall now that their writings did point at material abundance. Christians Should Be Prosperous comes to mind. At the same time, their live teachings did not promote this with any emphasis (that I recall, outside of "it should be this way"). Reality certaintly did not prove the writings, with most TWI'ers living at the subsistance level. Their teachings seemed to make an attempt at times to redefine abundance as being spiritual. I'll see what I can do with it.
A link to a page/site that has all the plagerism documented in one place would be useful. Does one exist? If not, perhaps a thread that pulls it all together would be useful.
Thank you for your comments. I really appreciate them.
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Radar OReilly
Oh, Oh, Oh, don't forget my favorite regarding the RESEARCH DEPARTMENT!!!
The last *published* head of the research department of twi was the deposed former President of twi before he was fired and sent packing to Toledo.
Radar
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WordWolf
I'm slowly trying to link the other thread to various sites or threads where various felonies were documented.
I think the ones already there contain a few examples,
I will try to do better with a bit more time.
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Catcup
This is an absolutely wonderful dissection of claims TWI makes on it's website.
But I do have to make this one point.
Regarding how TWI celebrates its anniversary, if VPW wanted to exaggerate the length of time of his ministry to impress people, he could have claimed to have started it earlier, like when he began his first pastorate in 1941. But he didn't.
He began pastoring people much earlier than that. However, he didn't count from that date, he counted from when he felt his personal ministry began, which was with the Chimes Hour Youth Caravan. And it was celebrated every year from that date.
For example, in 1943, it was ONLY a one year anniversary. Not so impressive, eh? But the one year anniversary of Chimes Hour Youth Caravan was celebrated in 1943, and every year since then.
There are sooooooooooo many areas that VPW DID exaggerate, that it is not necessary for us to do the same thing by trying to make it appear VPW was stretching the truth regarding when the anniversary actually began.
IMO, there are far more LEGITIMATE areas of concern than this one. We only hurt our own credibility when we are the pot calling the kettle black.
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johniam
I took the AC in '84 at Emporia. VP was there for some of it. He showed us these old films of PFAL bloopers. This was in '63 and he was saying, "Welcome to the internationally famous class on power for abundant living." He did 4 takes in the film. Weird thing was, he was laughing at it like he thought it was stupid.
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Steve!
Johnyouare, I was at that one too.
I mentioned to someone recently that I spent a couple of weeks in Kansas, he asked where, I said "Emporia", and he said, "Gawd, the only place I know of worse than there is Emporia, Virginia!"
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Catcup
A short chronology of events taken from Born Again to Serve by Dorothea Wierwille and The Way Living With Love by Elena Whiteside:
June 1941: "VPW was ordained into the Christian ministry in the Evangelical and Reformed Church in New Knoxville, Ohio, his home church since birth."
July 6, 1941: "VPW accepted the call to the Payne church and was installed there as a minister for St. Jacob’s Evangelical and Reformed Church."
July 23, 1942: "VPW’s outreach beyond the congregation began with a column called 'Religion in the Weekly' in the local weekly newspaper, The Payne Reflector."
Summer of 1942: "VPW brought Rosalind Rinker to their home to meet with her privately and began germinating the idea of producing a radio broadcast in which young people from our church and other community churches would entertain with Christian music and he would teach... In preparation for broadcasting, Rev. Wierwille wrote short sermons regularly, writing about things that he had learned from various situations of his life. Soon Higley Press published some of these articles."
“In the fall of the year, after Rosalind left” was the “snow on the gas pumps” experience according to VPW as quoted by Elena Whiteside in The Way Living With Love: "Then Rosalind left. It was the fall of the year. Kids were back in school already. It must have been September. I was sitting in my office, an old dentist's office..." ect.
October 3, 1942: VPW’s first radio broadcast, his ..."First radio program designed to teach principles of the abundant life through musical performances and scriptural messages." Says Wierwille, "This broadcast got me back to digging the Word… made me go to the Word for two or three new teachings a week. It got me into the Word, got me growing in it, and kept me fluid. All of the other religious programs used adults. But I though if we started with young people, it would grow into something and the adults might catch on.”
Of all the above incidents, at least to VP Wierwille, the incident that was significant to him as to the starting of his personal ministry, is the date October 3, the date of the beginning of the Chimes Hour Youth Caravan program, not the snow on the gas pumps experience, nor was it the 1941 date of his ordination which he could have chosen to use if his motivation was to "exaggerate."
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Oakspear
Catcup:
Good point about exaggeration; but I think it depends on when he started referring to anniversaries of his "ministry". If he started doing it in 1943, the difference between 1941 and 1942 would be trivial, I agree. There is every indication that his "ministry" was a side project for much of the 40's anyway.
If he started celebrating anniversaries in, say, the late sixties, like when he filmed PFAL, or when growth began to accelerate, adding a decade or fifteen years to the "ministry's" longevity would be significant.
Another problem for me: if 1942 was so significant as the beginning of what would become The Way, and he accomplished so much "digging the Word", why was he again ready to "chuck it all" in 1953 (or was it '52?) when he went to Tulsa?
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Catcup
VPW experienced a lot of disappointment in denominational religion while pastoring his church. For the details, check The Way Living With Love and Born Again to Serve, where the reasons for this are discussed extensively.
But I do see where the argument starts in the difference between when VPW marked what he felt was the beginning of his personal ministry (Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, October 3, 1942) and the incorporation of The Way.
However, the words "The Way" were linked very early to Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, long before The Way itself was incorporated. This is where the confusion enters. "The Way" was a title VPW used in association with his personal ministry even while working for his denomination.
On page 63 of Dotsie’s book there is a photograph of an old Chimes Hour Young People's Publication (forerunner of the Way rag), and at the top of the page it plainly says in large print, "The Way Chimes Hour Young People's Publication". This publication began in 1947. Chimes Hour Youth Caravan itself began as stated earlier on October 3, 1942.
Just five short successful years later, Articles of Incorporation for The Chimes Hour Youth Caravan are dated October 30, 1947, no. 204759 with the Ohio secretary of state.
So, the term “The Way” can be documented as associated in print with VPW’s ministry at least as early as 1947.
On July 24 to 17, 1952, Wierwille planned a weekend camp at a campground at Grand Lake St. Mary’s Ohio in celebration of the tenth anniversary year. Speakers at the celebration:
Tom Lasher, a chemist who had been healed from terrible burns received in an explosion who imparted to the hearers the importance of physical touch.
Jeff Rogers of the Race Relations Department of the Evangelical and Reformed denomination, who taught on “Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself”
Dr. Stuart Hydanus, a professor of astronomy and archaeology whom VPW had met at Pikes Peak Seminary, whose specialty was proving the detailed accuracy of the Bible through astronomy and archaeology.
BTW, since VPW still held pastorate at this time with his denomination, we can only assume they accepted his doctorate from Pikes Peak Seminary.
June 12, 1955, change in articles of incorporation for Chimes Hour Youth Caravan: On pages 110 and 111 of Born Again to Serve are the details and copy of the Resolution of Amendment Articles of Incorporation to Change Name of Corporation and to Amend It’s Purpose Clause. This action changing the name of Victor Paul Wierwille’s ministry officially from Chimes Hour Youth Caravan to The Way, Inc. on June 12, 1955. The ministry itself did not change. It changed the name to include only “The Way” which title had been blended with the Youth Caravan in practice, and had become more and more preferred. The title “The Way” was associated with this ministry long before the name officially changed. It is a continuation of the same ministry that began in 1942 with the radio broadcast.
The third article to this resolution continues the ministry’s purpose as, “The purpose or purposes for which said corporation is formed are: For the furtherance of the gospel of Jesus Christ by radio, or by personal appearance.” This is what he was already doing. To this was added another entire paragraph including television (the emerging technology at the time), the printed page, and all things incident thereto…” etc. etc.
November 1955: The Wierwille family (minus JP) travel to India to inspect the foreign missions of the Evangelical Reformed church.
When the first international PFAL class was run in 1957, The Way still considered itself part of the Evangelical Reformed Church-- as evidenced by the sign over the heads of the class members who posed for a pic back then (p.214 of Dotsie's book).
So there was a “blending” of VPW’s personal ministry of “The Way” with Wierwille’s The Chimes Hour Youth Caravan and throughout his relationship with Evangelical and Reformed church.
Dotsie says it was in August of 1957 that VPW submitted his letter of resignation from St. Peters Church to "go into the full-time research, teaching and fellowship ministry of The Way as of December 1957.” A copy of this letter is in Born Again to Serve.
Dotsie adds, “Of course, there was also a pressured undercurrent from the hierarchy of the denomination to do so since the publishing of The Dilemma of Foreign Missions in India."
This publication outlined VPW's disappointment at the condition of the missions of his denomination in India when he visited them, and was the final nail in the coffin of his relationship with organized religion and his denomination. He basically blew the whistle on how poorly the Indians were being treated by the denomination, which made his church rather uncomfortable. I have a copy of this book myself, and it is rather scathing towards the denomination. But he was right on the money calling them racist imperialists.
So you can see that with just a little effort looking things up in two publications, that the term “The Way” has a very early association with Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, and that the ministry in fact had a 10 year celebration in 1952.
I do not deny the damage this man eventually did to untold numbers of people. But it behooves us to be as accurate as possible if we are going to accuse someone of something. Just ask Radar and those of us who were subject to deposition by TWI’s attorneys.
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rascal
Well yeah, I guess he WAS dissapointed in his denomination...Darn em, they took a very dim view of his um ministering to his secretary, according to many of the locals.
Catcup, as much as I respect you, I think that when you conduct your research into the back ground of vp and his ministry, utilizing their publications....you are certainly going to find a rather sanitized view of the events....Consider that in quoting THEIR materials, in order to make your point, that you could very well be guilty of spreading misinformation as well.
He was not a man of integrety, he lied to your face...how could one trust ANY material that his group put out? There is no credibility.
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Catcup
Thanks, Rascal, I respect you too.
But I gave you information off of photographed documents: Actual magazines and legal documents filed with the State of Ohio.
All you have after that is speculation, which can be colored by your opinions and of course your experiences. And emotions not held in check can skew the facts as well.
My opinion of VPW is well documented on this site and on WayDale, and with attorneys for PXXL AXXXN and Baker and Hostetler et al.
I maintain that the best way to be credible to a new person who is considering whether or not to get involved in TWI is to be as accurate as I know how to be. to not let my emotions get in the way of the facts. As upsetting as my experiences were, I have the ability to set them aside and look at "just the facts, ma'am." --And that is important at times in order to be objective-- something we were not allowed to be in TWI.
I cannot speak for your personal experience, but I can certainly speak for mine, AND I HAVE, both here and to legal counsel.
And legal counsel could not refute my testimony because I testified to Baker and Hostetler et al what I personally knew first hand, and to what could actually be documented.
What I have seen on this site lately and more commonly could be shot down in a court of law, very easily. And it hurts your credibility.
Pardon me for being from the "old school" on WayDale where what we said was obviously held to a much higher standard.
But then again, the site was fortunate to be monitored nearly 24 hrs a day by someone with a legal stake in the matter, and that was his full time job.
This site is not, cannot be, and does not try to hold people to the same standard P.A. did. Here, it is more up to the individual to restrain themselves and be as objective and truthful as they can be without constant reminders to people of the legal ramifications of exaggeration. Unfortunately, there are people here who do exaggerate, don't double check their facts, and don't apologize when caught in it.
Perhaps that's why I don't fit in here. I am used to a different, higher standard.
That's all I've got to say. You all can take it or leave it. I've got things to do besides your research for you.
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rascal
Come on now, quoting from mrs. wierwilles book is hardly gospel nor can it be regarded as impartial, catcup....nor can any of the publications that were published by twi offiliated people be seriously viewed as such.
Simply because our collective experiences wouldn`t hold up in a court of law does not in anyway invalidate what we experienced, what we witnessed,...How we were impacted..and because that is recognised here... praise GOD we are ALLOWED to speak of them here....for some of us...it is the first time ever.
Geeze, I would hardly call THAT a lower standard....different maybe, but absolutely necessary for many in our healing and in continuing on our spiritual journey.
However... if you feel you don`t fit in here well, it might benefit you to examine more closely what IS happening ...You have to consider that we here, by in large are not interested in, nor hampered by having to support anybody`s elses case in a court of law, and so are allowed much more freedom to examine the evil experienced...to speak our minds...explore for and examine the missing pieces and eventually assemble all of the puzzle to view and understand the picture in it`s entirety.....
I am not slamming you, nor do I wish to offend (today anyway ;-) as I feel that there is much you can add here, maybe much to be learned....it would be my hope that you will become comfortable....maybe even come to understand why it is that this place IS a place of blessing and healing...and even though not always fitting with others preconcieved mindsets nor necessarily always nice....It gets the job done.
So consider please that the *lower standard* slam, kind of smacks of arrogance and in reality spits on the enormous good that God has seen fit to accomplish for so many through this web sight.
Thank you, Cathy
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shazdancer
Cathy,
I agree with you.
Catcup, I changed my fact (the anniversary of TWI) when I saw that I was incorrect. I hold to my opinion (that Wierwille exaggerated), even though I hear what you are saying.
I hope you will always feel free to add your knowledge of TWI history to this site. I hope you will not think of it as doing "your research for you."
I do not think of Paw's site as one with "lower standards," just different ones. As I recall, when PA got his settlement and prepared to shut down his site, many were disappointed that he did not live "up" to their "standards." His wasn't lower, either -- just different.
Please note that it was Paw who stepped up and continued the ex-Way exchange of information begun by PA and others before him. Not too shabby, in my opinion.
And yes, I speak as one who also went to court over issues that were complicated by TWI involvement. I won. I went back to court and had to question a witness -- pro se. TWI issues again involved. I won again.
This ain't court. But it sure helps a lot of people, warts and all.
Regards,
Shaz
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ex10
I confess to not having read this whole thread. The only thing I have to add, is that VPW's extra marital affairs, at least one of them, did make the local papers in the 50's.
I don't have the time or inclination to search the Ohio newspaper archives to find the article/articles, but VPW's seperation from his denomination could possibly have much more to do with his "unfitness' as a minister, due to his extra-marital affairs, than anybody associated with TWI or his family wants to admit. Of course, Mrs. W would not address that in her book. For obvious reasons.....sadly.
:(-->
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Catcup
I in no way disparage Pawtucket for the wonderful job he does in maintaining this website. Only Pawtucket knows how much it takes out of his life to keep up this site, and it's a far piece more than anyone on here can begin to understand.
P.A. did not work a full time job. WD WAS his full time job. Pawtucket works a full time job AND has both the pleasure and headaches of watching over the cafe. But he simply cannot do it like P.A. And that yes, makes the standards different. How?
On WayDale, P.A. was responsible for keeping up the standard.
ON GSC, you and I are largely responsible for it.
With WD, P.A. was there to step in and ON people who exaggerated or overstepped their bounds. Pawtucket, after posting instructions on the front of the website and doing his best with moderators, must leave it up to the individual poster to monitor his own behavior for the most part. The integrity and credibility of this site is mostly up to the integrity and credibility of each poster.
Pawtucket is leaving it up to US to toe the line. Take personal responsibility. Many people do. Unfortunately, those who do not, take away from the credibility on this site. And that ends up HURTING PEOPLE whether you believe it or not. When people who are still in see exaggerations that they can truthfully identify as exaggerations on this site, it takes away from the credibility of the true incidents shared here by honest and careful posters, and you frankly are not believed. Too much $hit mixed in with the brownies, folks.
For instance, I remember hearing reports in the media back in the mid-seventies that VPW was screwing hoards of women in the Way Corps. However, that same source ALSO made the outrageous claim that the Wierwille silo held a missle and that the barn housed tanks and ammunition because, they claimed, we were a paramilitary organization.
I had been in the Wierwille barn, and seen the silo. There was no missle in the silo and the only thing in the barn besides give-away was an old Ford tractor. I was also in The Way Corps and Dr. Wierwille had not made any advances towards me. So guess who I believed?
Why?
Too much dog $hit in the brownies, folks.
IT WORKS BOTH WAYS.
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Oakspear
Thanks for doing my research for me Catcup
;)--> - I let my ex-wife keep all the Way books and publications - including a stash of Way mags and collateral booklets going way back. I decided that I didn't want any of that in my home, although in retrospect I could participate more effectively in some debates here if I had my old books! 
:D-->
I agree with you wholeheatedly about things being presented as "fact" that are not. This does hurt our collective credibility. Denominational smear campaigns full of b.s. and fantasies back in the 70's and 80's only strengthened my resolve when I saw their obvious fabrications.
However...
Speculation, IMHO, is fine, as long as it doesn't masquerade as fact.
None of us know Wierwille's true thoughts or motivations, or what he was trying to do by setting the founding of The Way when he did. However, there appears to be a pattern of self aggrandizment: Famous people who took PFAL after they achieved fame have their success credited to PFAL and TWI; worldwide status is claimed when many countries claimed to have a Way presence have a military couple or one small fellowship; originality is claimed when plagarism is the demonstrable fact; world renowned theologians are name-dropped as if they were drinking buddies...etc.
While you provide some insight as to why he might have used the October 1942 date as the founding of "his ministry", the big picture allows flexibility and alternative opinions.
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