Jump to content
GreaseSpot Cafe

TWI worships an idol


CoolWaters
 Share

Recommended Posts

I am delighted to see the topic of "Bible-Worship" or "Bibliolatry" being talked about more and more in view of our past twi teachings and experiences. In my opinion, it was the most formidable problem which led to a hardening of hearts in twi (as with other churches and ministries).

The worship of an infallible superbook.

When in fact, it is healthier IMOHO to approach the Bible as a field of wheat and tares, planted side by side, bearing a likeness to one another, with the wheat being good for one, but the tares being quite poisonous.

Of course this raises questions among the minds of those of us who approached the Bible as inherently, wholly perfect - how does one distinguish between a wheat and a tare?

Therein our approach becomes more paradoxial than black & white.

In short - by using the character of Christ (or his attributes of kindness and goodness) that we glean through his sayings to "rightly-divide" the Bible, rather than the Bible or some Book theology to divide Christ.

I doubt if it's the only way to approach the Bible, but so far I find it's far more fluid, interesting and even rewarding than the old Wierwillian theology which promoted a total adoration and even submission to a book.

I can understand, though, the dilemma of preachers who hold onto the idea of a perfect book. On the surface, it may appear simpler and easier and less problematic to teach - such serves almost like the figurative "tutor" of Galatians - teach a perfect book to lead some unto Christ - but it is only a toddler toy to be outgrown.

Danny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 63
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Dan and others:

I think this brings up the topic of how the Bible is regarded in other "Christian organizations" as well. It is my view that someone having the TWI experience can more readily appreciate Biblical gymnastics done from other organizations in a self serving way. For other Christian organizations cite scripture to point to there theme's with the same resounding dogma's. In fact, most fundamentalists regard the scripture as unfallible and use it as a steping to build a heirarchial order. This is where the OT , I think can be so very useful, not just for our learning but for our application, for there are numerous illustrations that warn one not to do so.

IMO, the Bible certainly is the word of God and infallible. People however are fallible. The bible must be applied. It is therefore in the application of scripture that we must test the applicator, and wether the usage is for the good and benefit of those concerned or are they just making up some "strange brew."

When attendance is poor in a fundamentalist church, they often like to cite the passage that says

"forsake not the gathering together of the saints" but curiously omit the one in I john that says "you need not that any man should teach you" (I John 2:27) And thus the paradox continues.

IMO, this speaks volumes to the problem of people with God as illustrated in Israel's demand for a King, for they would not "have this one rule over them". God, IMO, challenges us to use our minds, skills and talents in an ever increasing way. It makes us uncomfortable to have to dig deeper and work his word in sitations that are very chaotic. It is in the fire, however, that we become better people. Perhaps we should not forget that the baptism was not just of the HS, but also with "fire". Finding a "fearless leader", sometimes pacifies our need for easy stoic answers that really are not answers at all. It is therefore good, that this dilema of application and life's difficulties are forced upon us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JR, just wanted to let you know that I have enjoyed your posts in this thread very much. I was in 1975-1982 and I had forgoten all about the "absent Christ" blasphemy crap. To this day I still catch myself being careful not to use the word "Jesus". Very devilish and I do remember vp pounding on the pulpit and screaming about all those poor posessed weak so-called christians who were of the devil because THEY worshipped another jesus. Well, we all know the outcome of buying into vp's heresy. God forgive me(and He has)

bluesunday

quote:
Originally posted by igotout:

Coolwaters - _Bibliolatry _ is the term I use for their mind set.

It was John Lyxn who first started with the concept (when he was booted in 1988?) of the "Absent Christ in TWI". He made pretty powerful and valid points. Watch Athletes of the Spirit sometime if you can stomach it to see a prime example of Jesus left out of that whole pathetic production. This revelation by JL was disturbing to those of us who were caught in the middle listening to both sides of the battles in the so called "fog years". It rocked our comfortable world.

Though I stayed in TWI for over a decade longer, I have come to believe TWI indeed left Jesus out of TWI in so many ways causing idolatry to ensue. In fact we were taught that to even use the word "Jesus" was wrong. You were reprimanded sharply or thrown out, labled as possessed or an idolator if you dared teach, or speak using Jesus instead of saying "Jesus Christ" or at the very least "Christ".

And then there was the teaching that there was a BIG devil spirit named Jesus, the real catalyst behind all the popular Christian religions of the day.

Personally I think it was rubbish. I even did a "Research Paper" called "The Names and Titles of Jesus Christ" while in the Corps so I studied this quite a lot back then and even slanted my viewpoint to substantiate TWI's reasoning for not using the name Jesus in our day and time.

(It represented the human earthly man who was humiliated and killed rather than the risen Christ Jesus, ya know. Therefore we use Jesus Christ instead of Jesus. Again rubbish.)

Since being away from the influence of TWI I believe these are just names when it really comes down to it. What is believed about the man is more important than what name you use for him. For me now using the term Jesus and thinking about him from a gospel viewpoint gives me more of a sense of him as a savior than the risen christ does. (What blasphemy!). I mean, I like the risen "sandals in the sky" dude a whole lot. But I am still human, down here where he once was, dealing with humanity in all our flaws.

I think the epistles have been over rated and the gospels under rated in TWI. Today I get more out of reading a real life story about some of the things he did as a human than I do in reading some of the deeeeeeep truths of the structure of Ephesians or Corinthians (Yawn). (Again what blasphemy.)

And what to make of this awful statement that was oft quoted in TWI:

"The Bible takes the place of the Absent Christ today"

How much more clear could it be?

As Penn & Teller say...... Bull....*!

John Richeson

Tampa,FL


Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:
Originally posted by sky4it:

It's no different than going to school and learning a trade and then going out and applying it.

At least thats my opinion. The more you practice "your trade", the better you get at it.


This is good...

However twi did NOT teach the "trade" of making Jesus lord...

And, therefore, did NOT teach the "trade" of having a knowledge of the bible or the lord.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope...knowledge of the word was paramount....mastery of scriptures was the key to spirituality.

I think that was what stagnated my growth, was replacing God and Jesus with scripture.

Really tricky, I had to just dump the bible for a long time in order to refocus my attention on God...that is when the great breakthoughs...the epiphanies and growth began again....

Slowly now, I am able to reintroduce scriptures in their proper context and function....

I know for me personally..... in hindsight, I can see just how idolotrous my focus was....rather than utelising them as a sign post or direction to life with God...scriptures and their mastery became my sustenance.....became what made me rightious...spiritual.

I can`t explain it well....only that I recognise the idolotry that I once practiced....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:
Originally posted by rascal:

Really tricky, I had to just dump the bible for a long time in order to refocus my attention on God...that is when the great breakthoughs...the epiphanies and growth began again....

Slowly now, I am able to reintroduce scriptures in their proper context and function....


Exactly.

If we had ever been taught a knowledge of the bible...and not just a knowledge of twi's PI of the bible...it would not be such a common thing for extwi folks to have to walk away from the bible itself to ever begin to learn the true knowledge.

II Timothy 3:7 describes what twi did/does as "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

**** a tornado swirls thru GS dropping Templelady into the midst-yes she is alive--yes she still loves all of you****

I think there is a point that is being missed here. TWI did not commit Biblolatry. Because TWI didn't accept the Bible as written They "fixed" it to coincide with their beliefs,

How many remember Acts 21:14

As Written

quote:
And when he [Paul] would not be persuaded we ceased saying, "the will of the Lord be done"

BUt no that doesn't Jibe with TWI position

so we end up with

And when he would not be persuaded we ceased saying "the Will of the Lord be Done"

Dispense with one comma and Paul is changed from dedicated to disobedient

And let us never forget the biblical gymnastics of AOS.

( does anyone really believe that if AOS had been swalllowed hook line and sinker by 90% of the rank and file instead of the uproar that ensued, TWI would not be pushing it still??!??

Does anyone seriously believe that if it had been well accepted VPW woold still have denounced it as death approached??!??)

Looking BAck over the "Cult that Snapped" by Karl Kahler I came across this gem

Concluding his defense of the interpretation of scripture to support AOS and the order in which the Kings scepter , Moses' rod and SAul's spear, Elijahs arrow and the crown appear in scripture Walter Cummins says to VPW

Cummins : And That's it. We haven't found a text yet that inverts--

Wierwille-- You haven't YET [emphasis mine]

Cummins:--the crown putting that last, but we will

WIErwille: Good

Cummins: Because it HAs to be

So it isn't there, we can 't find it anywhere, but we have decided it must be there and so by golly come H E double hockey sticks or high water we are going to find it.

Why is my heart not soothed by this single mindedness that will make it "fit like a hand in a glove"?? Probably because no one has ever bothered to check if the glove is the right size to fit the hand it is to cover

The Only thing TWI taught was Mogolatry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hee HEE, Mo invented a great new term ...

Mogolotry: A practice whereby one`s chief function is to introduce bibliolotry in order to be able to skillfully manufacture (with the appearance of spirituality), any excuse needed to cover ones a-- to make outragious abuse appear acceptable and necessary, and to justify the sating of ones apetites at the followers expense!

Welcome back girl!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went to TWI's web site. They changed their definition of what TWI is. The Way USED to be "a fellowship OF THE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS CHRIST." Not any more.

How does TWI account for "the absent Christ" in this verse:

MATTHEW 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's still there, Golfie, they just moved it to the very bottom of the page. They also added this little ditty which speaks loudly to those of us who are familiar with TWIt-speak:

"Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship is our ministry, and with it come a myriad of supporting responsibilities to see that God’s Word prevails in our day and time. "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...