quote:What are the qualifications for becoming a federal judge?
Although there are almost no formal qualifications for federal judges, there are some strong informal ones. For example, while magistrate judges and bankruptcy judges are required by statute to be lawyers, there is no statutory requirement that district judges, circuit judges, or Supreme Court justices be lawyers. But it would be unheard-of for a president to nominate someone who is not a lawyer. Before their appointment, most judges were private attorneys, but many were judges in state courts or other federal courts. Some were government attorneys and a few were law professors.
quote:The sale was a joke as most people understood except those that took twi's slant on it.
"Took TWI's slant"? If I were human, I believe my response would be, "Go to hell." If I were human. [The preceding was a Star Trek quote: not intended to be taken seriously.]I did not take TWI's slant on this, and I'm tired of your implication that anyone who tried to caution you against your course of action was taking TWI's side. I wanted to see you get through this with as little damage to you as possible. If you have a problem with that, it's your problem.
You keep saying this was not about the web site, but the truth is, the moment you gave up the domain name, the case was dropped. They made no effort to shut down your other sites, and as soon as you gave up the web site, any attempt they would have made to shut down your sites was moot anyway. This was entirely about the domain name and the trademark infringements, your protestations notwithstanding.
quote:You guys keep talking about the number of times "the way" shows up on Web sites, as if any use of the words themselves are a trademark violation. That's a total straw man argument. TWI has never made any such claim"
Why is that a "straw man", Raphael? I'm specifically referring to the many Christian ministries/groups with the words, "The Way" in their titles/names.
Christian ministries with the words "The Way" in their names are relevant. Streisand and KC are not. That's what I was referring to. There are other ministries that use "The Way" in their names in manners that are not relevant because they do not seek to or actually cause confusion with TWI's trademark (which has NOT been refuted anywhere by anyone). If a church is called "The Way of Christ United Methodist Church," for example, TWI would probably lose that case because there is no confusion intended or caused. But if a church was called "The Way International Ministries," there is a likelihood that they would end up in court with TWI and that they would get spanked (the violation there is not intended, but it is caused). Oh, wait...
quote:Oh, by the way, why did TWI feel the need to file for 4 new trademarks for "the way international" if their trademark "The Way" was not generic and was defendable? Did they just want to add to their collection of 128 other trademarks?
You just answered your own question: they have a bunch of trademarks. They neglected an obvious one, and they corrected that. But the interesting thing about trademark law is that one does not have to register a trademark in order to enforce it. It just helps: it makes it a lot easier to enforce the trademark when it's registered.
Your ENE pleadings are utterly irrelevant. No court has found in your favor, and the fact that you state the case does not make it defensible.
Face it dude, an attorney you ain't, and it can be debated as to whether you are even a good law school student or one who would be bounced out on his ear in his first year at law school, as simply taking courses and talking to various attorneys just doesn't cut it as to talking authoritatively re: the law.
Hell, even I could see flaws in your reasoning as to the domain name issue. 'thewayinternational.com'. Oh right, like that hasn't any similarity or likeness to The Way International name? --> Anybody proficient with domain names and the legalities thereof can see the confusion/domain name squatting attempt there. Also, in your list of 'experts' you consulted with, was ICANN one of them? I believe they are the ones who know and decide as to the legality/ownership of contested names.
And your continuous implications that those who are challenging you on this matter somehow are siding with TWI definitely belongs in the 'Evil Conspiracies That Simply Don't Exist' department. ... Right along with 'the man in the grassy knoll' and Bigfoot.
According to the paperwork we were given by the clerk of the district court when we filed in Fed Court, above 90% of pro se cases are thrown out as soon as a motion for summary judgement is filed because this is the stage where that many pro se litigants become hopelessly lost.
Pat carried it all the way to settlement.
Now some of you armchair lawyers get your a$$e$ out there and do some pro se stuff against a team of lawyers and see how far you all get.
I am shocked, absolutely shocked, that this is the treatment Pat is receiving.
The PA case was settled, too...and PA used attorneys...and PA was not so forthcoming with what happened in that settlement...
I applaud the fact that Pat got as far as he did. I am pleased that he was not forced to pay TWI's legal fees (not that he could have anyway, but it's the principle of the thing). I wish he had gotten more: TWI should have paid him the cost of securing and maintaining the domain name for five years.
Where I object is when people call this a "draw," when it was not; when Pat claims this was not about the domain name, when it was; when I'm accused of taking TWI's slant, when I did not.
Warning a brother not to get too deep into a fight he can't win is NOT taking TWI's side.
For all the criticism we "armchair lawyers" have gotten on this site, we called the outcome of this from the get-go, even with our limited understanding of the law (and I wasn't even basing my own thoughts on the law, but that's irrelevant).
As for PA, he decided not to make his settlement the subject of discussion (I forget if there was a legal order forbidding discussion or not). Pat decided to make his case, his strategy, and his settlement the subject of discussion.
quote:According to the paperwork we were given by the clerk of the district court when we filed in Fed Court, above 90% of pro se cases are thrown out as soon as a motion for summary judgement is filed because this is the stage where that many pro se litigants become hopelessly lost.
What percentage of those cases are brought by the pro se litigant? This was not a case brought by a pro se litigant, it was defended by one. Of course it wasn't going to get thrown out: because TWI had a case against Pat. And I will restate my observation that none of the people on this site who have complained about "armchair lawyering" in this case raised ANY objections when the armchair lawyers said things that were supportive of Pat. Your opposition to armchair lawyering seemed awfully selective.
Pat, I know we've butted heads hard on this, but I hope you take my criticisms as constructive. I desperately did not want to see you get hurt, although I predicted you would. On that, you exceeded my expectations, for which I am grateful. I know you didn't see it this way, but I don't think it would have been kind on my part to keep quiet about your course of action when I thought it was a major mistake on your part. I think your web sites do significant damage to TWI by telling the truth about their operations, and I thought this lawsuit and your position on it were diverting your attention away from a much more valuable endeavor. As stated earlier, I hope you return to that endeavor with full vigor. You lost a battle on their turf, but there's a greater battle, one in which TWI's secrets must be exposed to the light of truth. That's your turf. Go get 'em.
I made some of the same warnings. In fact, I was pretty harsh with Pat when he first posted all of this.
But there's got to come a time and a place where a man can get a high 5 from people...ya know?
And the information we were given was of all pro se litigants, making no distinction of cases brought or cases defended by pro se litigants.
Maybe I'm just not used to the way men talk to each other. I've been told that before...that men are pretty harsh with one another and think nothing about it...whereas if a woman were to talk to another woman in the same manner and tone, there'd be tears, nails and hair pulling!
As you can probably tell from our photos, I won the hair pulling contest with Pat. ;)-->
A high five coming from me would be disingenuous. It would not be sincere, and I don't want to insult Pat by offering one. I'll just reword what I've said before:
Few people have done more damage to TWI in the field of exposing them than Pat. I applaud that, as loudly as I can. I contributed some small, tangential content to his site because I believe his site is an important resource for people who have left TWI. I have no problem with Pat's site and I hope he continues to give TWI hell in that arena. I have always felt this legal effort was a distraction from a greater mission, and I hope, now that it's over, Pat can devote his full energy to doing what he's done extremely well in the past: expose that petty little cult for what it is. (Yes, I know he's already responded to it, but it's worth repeating anyway).
OK...if you say so...but I really think Pat's hair actually displays that it's been pulled...whereas your hair is simply gone...and that could be for any reason...
LMAO! ;)--> :D--> :P-->
(Don't worry...the women in my family tend to go bald...and I ain't winning the bet in that area!)
There's no question that the evidentiary hearing was not held.
There's also no question that TWIM could have pursued their case but chose not to. One can easily speculate the reason they did so is they did not think they were going to be successful. This runs absolutely contrary to your repeated and incorrect insistence that "The Way" is too generic a trademark to enforce. You may be right; you may be wrong. But you are absolutely wrong to insist, as you have, that this has been established. It has not been established by anyone anywhere except you.
quote:It has not been established by anyone anywhere except you.
Actually, I had consulted with several trademark attorneys over the years who had the same opinion.
quote:There's also no question that TWIM could have pursued their case but chose not to.
TWI can only enforce their trademarks by making it too costly to pursue justice.
TWIM most likely saw the tremendous waste of their time and resources which TWI was more than happy to spend, and decided that the battle was not worth the cost.
On trademark issues, TWI has lost in a few trademark cases I will be posting in the next weeks.
Again, if TWI's trademark "The Way" was so defensable, TWI would not have needed to register 4 new trademarks for "The Way International". Their trademark for "The Way" should have been sufficient without needing the new trademarks.
Don't want to butt into this because I haven't read everything - but isn't "The Way International" different than just plain "The Way"?
I can see where "The Way International" would not be generic, but just plain "The Way" would be. And the other organization called itself "The Way International Ministries". Wasn't that what riled them up against that group in the first place?
quote:You’re being more than a little presumptuous there, Pat. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
The judge's decision and order was dated July 7, 2004. The hearing as to the evidence was scheduled August 16, 2004.
It is obvious that the judge made a decision before the evidentiary hearing was held.
Yes, the judge ruled on TWIM’s MOTION FOR A TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER, not on evidence to be presented later. He ruled on that order exactly when and how he should have. One of the factors a judge must consider in deciding on a motion for a TRO is the likelihood that the party seeking the TRO will prevail. Another is whether that party will suffer irreparable harm if the motion is not granted. The judge considered those two points, as he should have, stated his findings, and denied the motion. All of that was timely and proper. It was NOT premature and NOT a mistake, both of which you presumptuously and erroneously claimed.
It’s a darn good thing you finally came to your senses and gave up the domain. You’d have been spanked by the judge if you showed up in court spouting the nonsense you spout here.
I'm sure to pat the fight was more than the use of a name. to TWI thats about all it was.
in the end, pat gave them what they wanted. as far as the 50,000.00, I wouldn't be to sure that it cost them that. it's the same lawyers they've used for about all of their legal battles. by now they've made so much cash off TWI, for all we know, they did it pro bono.
and pat, 'talking' to several trademark attorneys doesn't really amount to anything other than another persons opinion.
And the other organization called itself "The Way _International_ Ministries". Wasn't that what riled them up against that group in the first place?
It may have, if TWI had simply discovered TWIM, but that's not what happened. What happened was that Pat sought to cause trouble for TWI by informing TWIM of TWI's pending trademark applications. TWIM directly challenged TWI's trademark rights by filing an opposition to those applications. TWI then sent TWIM a cease and desist letter, after which TWIM filed suit against TWI. Then TWIM got spanked, pretty hard, but not as hard as it would have had the case proceeded to trial.
n. an agreement reached by the parties to a lawsuit, usually in writing and/or read into the record in court, settling all issues. Usually there are elements of compromise, waiver of any right to reopen or appeal the matter even if there is information found later which would change matters (such as recurrence of a problem with an injury), mutual release of any further claim by each party, a statement that neither side is admitting fault, and some action or payment by one or both sides. In short, the case is over, provided the parties do what they are supposed to do according to the final settlement's terms. With the glut of cases crowding court calendars and overwhelming the system and delays in getting to trial (due to three factors: increased criminal case load, increased litigious nature of society and an insufficient number of judges), judges encourage attempts to settle, including mandatory settlement conferences with judges or experienced settlement attorneys present.
quote:settlement
n. the resolution of a lawsuit (or of a legal dispute prior to filing a complaint or petition) without going forward to a final court judgment. Most settlements are achieved by negotiation in which the attorneys (and sometimes an insurance adjuster with authority to pay a settlement amount on behalf of the company's insured defendant) and the parties agree to terms of settlement. Many states require a settlement conference a few weeks before trial in an effort to achieve settlement with a judge or assigned attorneys to facilitate the process. A settlement is sometimes reached based upon a final offer just prior to trial (proverbially "on the courthouse steps") or even after trial has begun. A settlement reached just before trial or after a trial or hearing has begun is often "read into the record" and approved by the court so that it can be enforced as a judgment if the terms of the settlement are not complied with. Most lawsuits result in settlement.
quote:settle
v. to resolve a lawsuit without a final court judgment by negotiation between the parties, usually with the assistance of attorneys and/or insurance adjusters, and sometimes prodding by a judge. Most legal disputes are settled prior to trial.
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CoolWaters
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Raf
"Took TWI's slant"? If I were human, I believe my response would be, "Go to hell." If I were human. [The preceding was a Star Trek quote: not intended to be taken seriously.]I did not take TWI's slant on this, and I'm tired of your implication that anyone who tried to caution you against your course of action was taking TWI's side. I wanted to see you get through this with as little damage to you as possible. If you have a problem with that, it's your problem.
You keep saying this was not about the web site, but the truth is, the moment you gave up the domain name, the case was dropped. They made no effort to shut down your other sites, and as soon as you gave up the web site, any attempt they would have made to shut down your sites was moot anyway. This was entirely about the domain name and the trademark infringements, your protestations notwithstanding.
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Raf
Christian ministries with the words "The Way" in their names are relevant. Streisand and KC are not. That's what I was referring to. There are other ministries that use "The Way" in their names in manners that are not relevant because they do not seek to or actually cause confusion with TWI's trademark (which has NOT been refuted anywhere by anyone). If a church is called "The Way of Christ United Methodist Church," for example, TWI would probably lose that case because there is no confusion intended or caused. But if a church was called "The Way International Ministries," there is a likelihood that they would end up in court with TWI and that they would get spanked (the violation there is not intended, but it is caused). Oh, wait...
You just answered your own question: they have a bunch of trademarks. They neglected an obvious one, and they corrected that. But the interesting thing about trademark law is that one does not have to register a trademark in order to enforce it. It just helps: it makes it a lot easier to enforce the trademark when it's registered.
Your ENE pleadings are utterly irrelevant. No court has found in your favor, and the fact that you state the case does not make it defensible.
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GarthP2000
Pat,
Face it dude, an attorney you ain't, and it can be debated as to whether you are even a good law school student or one who would be bounced out on his ear in his first year at law school, as simply taking courses and talking to various attorneys just doesn't cut it as to talking authoritatively re: the law.
Hell, even I could see flaws in your reasoning as to the domain name issue. 'thewayinternational.com'. Oh right, like that hasn't any similarity or likeness to The Way International name?
--> Anybody proficient with domain names and the legalities thereof can see the confusion/domain name squatting attempt there. Also, in your list of 'experts' you consulted with, was ICANN one of them? I believe they are the ones who know and decide as to the legality/ownership of contested names.
And your continuous implications that those who are challenging you on this matter somehow are siding with TWI definitely belongs in the 'Evil Conspiracies That Simply Don't Exist' department. ... Right along with 'the man in the grassy knoll' and Bigfoot.
Ie., in short, don't give up your day job.
**spank**
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CoolWaters
Geeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzusssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!
Pat did this pro se.
That means he did this representing himself.
According to the paperwork we were given by the clerk of the district court when we filed in Fed Court, above 90% of pro se cases are thrown out as soon as a motion for summary judgement is filed because this is the stage where that many pro se litigants become hopelessly lost.
Pat carried it all the way to settlement.
Now some of you armchair lawyers get your a$$e$ out there and do some pro se stuff against a team of lawyers and see how far you all get.
I am shocked, absolutely shocked, that this is the treatment Pat is receiving.
The PA case was settled, too...and PA used attorneys...and PA was not so forthcoming with what happened in that settlement...
Now I see why.
Sheesh!
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oldiesman
I'd like to know how much mooola they got.
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Raf
I applaud the fact that Pat got as far as he did. I am pleased that he was not forced to pay TWI's legal fees (not that he could have anyway, but it's the principle of the thing). I wish he had gotten more: TWI should have paid him the cost of securing and maintaining the domain name for five years.
Where I object is when people call this a "draw," when it was not; when Pat claims this was not about the domain name, when it was; when I'm accused of taking TWI's slant, when I did not.
Warning a brother not to get too deep into a fight he can't win is NOT taking TWI's side.
For all the criticism we "armchair lawyers" have gotten on this site, we called the outcome of this from the get-go, even with our limited understanding of the law (and I wasn't even basing my own thoughts on the law, but that's irrelevant).
As for PA, he decided not to make his settlement the subject of discussion (I forget if there was a legal order forbidding discussion or not). Pat decided to make his case, his strategy, and his settlement the subject of discussion.
What percentage of those cases are brought by the pro se litigant? This was not a case brought by a pro se litigant, it was defended by one. Of course it wasn't going to get thrown out: because TWI had a case against Pat. And I will restate my observation that none of the people on this site who have complained about "armchair lawyering" in this case raised ANY objections when the armchair lawyers said things that were supportive of Pat. Your opposition to armchair lawyering seemed awfully selective.
Pat, I know we've butted heads hard on this, but I hope you take my criticisms as constructive. I desperately did not want to see you get hurt, although I predicted you would. On that, you exceeded my expectations, for which I am grateful. I know you didn't see it this way, but I don't think it would have been kind on my part to keep quiet about your course of action when I thought it was a major mistake on your part. I think your web sites do significant damage to TWI by telling the truth about their operations, and I thought this lawsuit and your position on it were diverting your attention away from a much more valuable endeavor. As stated earlier, I hope you return to that endeavor with full vigor. You lost a battle on their turf, but there's a greater battle, one in which TWI's secrets must be exposed to the light of truth. That's your turf. Go get 'em.
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oldiesman
Raf PLEASE STOP taking twi's side in this.
Else you may END UP HERE....
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CoolWaters
I hear ya Raf.
I made some of the same warnings. In fact, I was pretty harsh with Pat when he first posted all of this.
But there's got to come a time and a place where a man can get a high 5 from people...ya know?
And the information we were given was of all pro se litigants, making no distinction of cases brought or cases defended by pro se litigants.
Maybe I'm just not used to the way men talk to each other. I've been told that before...that men are pretty harsh with one another and think nothing about it...whereas if a woman were to talk to another woman in the same manner and tone, there'd be tears, nails and hair pulling!
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CoolWaters
Stop following me around, OM!
;)-->
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Raf
As you can probably tell from our photos, I won the hair pulling contest with Pat.
;)-->
A high five coming from me would be disingenuous. It would not be sincere, and I don't want to insult Pat by offering one. I'll just reword what I've said before:
Few people have done more damage to TWI in the field of exposing them than Pat. I applaud that, as loudly as I can. I contributed some small, tangential content to his site because I believe his site is an important resource for people who have left TWI. I have no problem with Pat's site and I hope he continues to give TWI hell in that arena. I have always felt this legal effort was a distraction from a greater mission, and I hope, now that it's over, Pat can devote his full energy to doing what he's done extremely well in the past: expose that petty little cult for what it is. (Yes, I know he's already responded to it, but it's worth repeating anyway).
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CoolWaters
OK...if you say so...but I really think Pat's hair actually displays that it's been pulled...whereas your hair is simply gone...and that could be for any reason...
LMAO!
;)--> 
:D--> 
:P-->
(Don't worry...the women in my family tend to go bald...and I ain't winning the bet in that area!)
I get your point better now. TYVM.
:)-->
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LG
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pjroberge
It is obvious that the judge made a decision before the evidentiary hearing was held.
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Raf
There's no question that the evidentiary hearing was not held.
There's also no question that TWIM could have pursued their case but chose not to. One can easily speculate the reason they did so is they did not think they were going to be successful. This runs absolutely contrary to your repeated and incorrect insistence that "The Way" is too generic a trademark to enforce. You may be right; you may be wrong. But you are absolutely wrong to insist, as you have, that this has been established. It has not been established by anyone anywhere except you.
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pjroberge
TWIM most likely saw the tremendous waste of their time and resources which TWI was more than happy to spend, and decided that the battle was not worth the cost.
On trademark issues, TWI has lost in a few trademark cases I will be posting in the next weeks.
Again, if TWI's trademark "The Way" was so defensable, TWI would not have needed to register 4 new trademarks for "The Way International". Their trademark for "The Way" should have been sufficient without needing the new trademarks.
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Hope R.
Don't want to butt into this because I haven't read everything - but isn't "The Way International" different than just plain "The Way"?
I can see where "The Way International" would not be generic, but just plain "The Way" would be. And the other organization called itself "The Way International Ministries". Wasn't that what riled them up against that group in the first place?
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excathedra
i love sticklers for detail.... shows me how you handle the word and your life
;)-->
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LG
Yes, the judge ruled on TWIM’s MOTION FOR A TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER, not on evidence to be presented later. He ruled on that order exactly when and how he should have. One of the factors a judge must consider in deciding on a motion for a TRO is the likelihood that the party seeking the TRO will prevail. Another is whether that party will suffer irreparable harm if the motion is not granted. The judge considered those two points, as he should have, stated his findings, and denied the motion. All of that was timely and proper. It was NOT premature and NOT a mistake, both of which you presumptuously and erroneously claimed.
It’s a darn good thing you finally came to your senses and gave up the domain. You’d have been spanked by the judge if you showed up in court spouting the nonsense you spout here.
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papajohn
my 2 cents
I'm sure to pat the fight was more than the use of a name. to TWI thats about all it was.
in the end, pat gave them what they wanted. as far as the 50,000.00, I wouldn't be to sure that it cost them that. it's the same lawyers they've used for about all of their legal battles. by now they've made so much cash off TWI, for all we know, they did it pro bono.
and pat, 'talking' to several trademark attorneys doesn't really amount to anything other than another persons opinion.
what did you gain in the end?
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LG
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LG
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LG
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CoolWaters
I have a question...
Why did twi settle?
I'm getting the idea that twi settled out of the goodness of its cold heart.
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