Oh you mean the ones who, when they are of age, will surely NOT follow in their parents "religion"?
Heck out of the alleged 5,000 spoken about, how many are kids who may not have much choice in the matter of attendance? Well if 1,000 are unmarried adults then that leaves 4,000 who are married, single parents or kids over 12. Lets not count anyone under 12. Maybe half that number are kids over 12 yet younger than 18?
I don't know really......but I am guessing that there are only 3,000 really interested in a serious manner. And some of them are pretty old by now,like in their 60's.
quote:...and nearly four thousand more joined in on phone lines from around the world.
"nearly four thousand" probably means about 3,600 or so. If I were to speculate a little....I'd guess that about 700 married couples with 2 children (average) were noted in the mandatory count. That adds up to 2,800.
Another 800 singles added would bring that number up to the alleged boast.
[Note: 700 married couples in 50 states = 14 couples (with kids) per state. And, 800 singles in 50 states = 16 singles per state.]
ooh wow, almost 5,000 people. Used to be the Rock was 1/4 that many people. Once again, they're painting the roses red, touting their horn, and arranging their chairs on the deck of the Titanic.
Those numbers are "from around the world" , so take a thousand off the count since they probably had 100 people "from around the world" on phone hook-ups and a little slip of the finger makes that 1,000.
It would really suc k to be single and strictly devoted to TWI. I guess you just get used to the idea of celibacy after a while.
Very good analysis, WW! I think you forgot to take into account the staff members who will be booted because TWI doesn't want to pay for their health and retirement expenses.
Maybe drop that number down to 75%-80% instead of 85%. If they won't take care of Dottie, they sure as he11 aren't going to take care of some lowly wc person, much less a mere advanced class grad.
Another factor is the "barely there" types. These functions are like Christmas and Easter for the occasional christian. It would be wrong to measure attendance just on those days.
TWI was allowing a lot of attendance flexibility to keep their numbers up when I bailed. Just subscribing to something was enough to keep you in good standing. A head count of people actually showing up in person in any given week is likely to be half of that "about" 5000 or less. Kids don't come frequently (school work, doncha know) and many adults come once per week, tops. (As of about two years ago)
The truly hardcore headcount therefore is probably less than two thousand total.
That was probably close before the infamous fog years. Martinpuke scared most of them away with his "follow me or leave" letters, and he caused a major riff with the country coordinator of the country then-known-as Zaire. That probably took out a HUGE amount of people. Martinpuke accused the country coord of being a witch doctor. That CC was in pretty tight with VeePee, so he didn't buy martinpuke's bs.
What's the difference between "Current News" and "What's New"? That's a lot of new, y'know?
Of interest - Claudette Royal's on the first video in the list.
Now that I've watched these videos over a period of time, I've nailed down something I couldn't quite articulate upon first viewing. It's what seems to be the primary message of the performances - absence of individuality and identity. Anyone else notice this?
It's more than the constantly matched dance steps and body movements, although that's a big part of it. It's more the obvious self-satisfaction that goes along with them as if the performers are gleefully saying "see? we're all doing the same thing...!" There's a hammer-like bludgeoning of the point, over and over and over. It's very weird, as if the message is "there will be no individual accomplishment here, no processes completed that aren't decided in advance". And what's acceptable is what you see, over and over and over. The smiles are as real as the practiced steps. The enthusiasm has all the depth of the number of times the routines were practiced.
Maybe they should be called "The Stepford Choir" or something. It's actually very sad. :(--> There's no passion, no excitement, no freaking life. Seems they've had their souls stolen....
There should be a disclaimer before you load the videos - "Warning - Repeated viewings may induce the urge to do bad cha-cha steps!"
The frightening part (and it is frightening to me - the looks in their eyes) is the ease with which they roll through their steps.
"Okay, people! We've got an hour, let's make it count! Leave your brain at the door, there's no need for it. Start at the top, here we go!
One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll, One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll,One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll, stop! Stand...lift...arm....hold....hold....release! Smile...One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll, One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll,One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll.......you in the back, smile! SMILE!!!! DAMMIT! We've got another non-smiler here! Crack that box open, get me another Smiler! Keep moving people, keep it moving!"
I just had a flashback of Richie D. performing "Who Has Rolled Away the Stone," and being so drenched by the end of the song, he had to change shirts for the next set. :)-->
Oh my... morbid couriosity made me watch all the clips... I still think fondly on a couple of those folks...
But, have you noticed that as they add or replace people, they are about the same age as everyone else? What happened to all the young, enthusiastic musicians? Not there!!!
The choir: I remember when they would "pad" the choir for special events so it filled the stage and filled the auditorium with sound... this was pretty skimpy and lame. A perfect reflection of twi.
And as for the lack of real expression on the faces of the "singing ladies", heck I'd have a plastic smile on my face, too, if I had to remember all those exact steps and hand movements for every single song!! Used to be just the joy in the music was enough to keep people watching... now it's just not way-prod-me-awake unless you have plastic choreography to go along with it.
What's so very sad and scary is that anyone looking at them can see it, but they can't see it themselves. They think they are God's best. Geez.
Did Claudette come back as a special treat? The only people who know she moved to "the field" are those who might ask. And where is D*bra Olth*use? They went back through the corps program and I'm pretty sure she was singing again when I left. Wonder if they found another reason to scr#w with them.
The WayGB hasn't been doing a good job of communicating changes that we've suggested. The women in the choir are still wearing those awful tent dresses and those smiles actually look pretty pained to me. It's amazing how you can notice these things once you get out. It's like they are smiling so hard because they are trying to convince themselves that they really are happy.
I'm also surprised that Tr*dy is still there seeing as how she named her son Loy after meathead. I wondered if he was the daddy.
Those clips depress me. I wonder how people can live such empty lives just jumping through hoops like trained monkeys and think they have the "more abundant life" but then I remember that I was there myself not too long ago.
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skyrider
..."over a thousand people participated in the anniversary celebration"....
So....after 62 years, with some 350 staff (??)in the seats, the auditorium was still only two-thirds full???
Doesn't sound like much to crow about?
:D-->
skyrider
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JustThinking
Since those calls are just about mandatory, I think we have a headcount for the Way Irrational.
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skyrider
And, although these numbers are more than likely exaggerated a bit, they would include 12 year olds and upward.
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igotout
Oh you mean the ones who, when they are of age, will surely NOT follow in their parents "religion"?
Heck out of the alleged 5,000 spoken about, how many are kids who may not have much choice in the matter of attendance? Well if 1,000 are unmarried adults then that leaves 4,000 who are married, single parents or kids over 12. Lets not count anyone under 12. Maybe half that number are kids over 12 yet younger than 18?
I don't know really......but I am guessing that there are only 3,000 really interested in a serious manner. And some of them are pretty old by now,like in their 60's.
Looks pretty dismal from the way I see it.
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skyrider
"nearly four thousand" probably means about 3,600 or so. If I were to speculate a little....I'd guess that about 700 married couples with 2 children (average) were noted in the mandatory count. That adds up to 2,800.
Another 800 singles added would bring that number up to the alleged boast.
[Note: 700 married couples in 50 states = 14 couples (with kids) per state. And, 800 singles in 50 states = 16 singles per state.]
Yep, pretty dismal.
:D-->
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herbiejuan
So ummm do they hand out awards at the end for best smile?
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outandabout
ooh wow, almost 5,000 people. Used to be the Rock was 1/4 that many people. Once again, they're painting the roses red, touting their horn, and arranging their chairs on the deck of the Titanic.
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Steve!
It's more likely that "nearly 4000" is wayspeak for 2,100.
And yes, it's gotta be mandatory, so I'm in agreement that it's the likely headcount for TWIt.
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Belle
Those numbers are "from around the world" , so take a thousand off the count since they probably had 100 people "from around the world" on phone hook-ups and a little slip of the finger makes that 1,000.
It would really suc k to be single and strictly devoted to TWI. I guess you just get used to the idea of celibacy after a while.
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CoolWaters
Hmmm...
When I was in twi they boasted of 40,000+.
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WordWolf
Actually,
I'm thinking, yes, that's the headcount.....
However,
I'd adjust the numbers as follows....
A) "nearly 4000" means "over 3000" people by phone.
That includes any new people, children of any age because
they ARE "people", and family members who were dragged
along because it was a special occasion.
So, "nearly 4000" probably would be "2000" by anyone
else's counting.
Dang-Steve! and I came up with the same number for entirely
different reasons.
So, 2000-2,100 wayfers by phone.
B) "Over 1,000" on-site.
That's 1001 people or therabouts, I think we can agree.
(I'm taking it as a given that twi isn't just manufacturing
the numbers entirely, which, knowing them, is a jump.
Therefore, this is a MAXIMUM number.)
That number includes:
1) bod and any family still speaking to them
2) staff on-grounds
3) family of staff on-grounds, local and speaking to them
4) all wayfers within a 3-5 hour drive
5) all prospects said wayfers can talk into coming
6) children under 12
So, I'm say, at MOST, that number represents about 700
wayfers, plus people willing to show up "for a special
occasion".
So, my best guesstimate of current numbers?
Between 2,700 and 2,800 people of age 12 or older,
worldwide, officially affiliated with twi.
The only Limb meeting I ever remember attending had numbers
comperable to that among the people who showed up.
(Which was NOT the entire state, of course.)
That was in the mid-80s.
So, at most, I'd say 2800 as of that date.
I'm supposing a few people may have hemorrhaged from the
group since then.
:D-->
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Steve!
Keep in mind that anyone still in, in general, is among the TRULY hard core.
I mean those that are still in and want to be, not those that are in and looking to leave.
So almost 100% of adults in TWItLand will still be there in a couple of years, a few years, 5 years, 10 years - unless something radically changes.
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WordWolf
Oh, I don't know....
A few will drop dead, according to death
statistics.
A few will reach retirement age and will no
longer be able to give 15% of their income,
so they will be dropped, as these humans will
now be seen as liabilities.
A few are in marriages with a blind wayfer.
Either that person coming around,
or a separation or a divorce,
will free them.
A few may face an "AHA!" moment, whether from
an experience in twi,
something they saw on tv or the internet,
something another human showed them,
or divine revelation they didn't reject.
Keep in mind that kids who escape can rescue
the minds of their parents- twi is aware of this
and have been for years.
Thus, I'd say 85% at MOST of current diehards
will still be there in 4 years, and this will
be a repeating cycle,
unless something else kicks the slumbering
bear again like a class-action lawsuit or
something.
Their ability to attract new member is currently
crippled by the availability of information
about twi from other sources,
especially those of us with direct experience
who refuse to be silent.
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Belle
Very good analysis, WW! I think you forgot to take into account the staff members who will be booted because TWI doesn't want to pay for their health and retirement expenses.
Maybe drop that number down to 75%-80% instead of 85%. If they won't take care of Dottie, they sure as he11 aren't going to take care of some lowly wc person, much less a mere advanced class grad.
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WordWolf
I counted them among the people who reached
retirement age.
I'm guesstimating as HIGH a retention rate
as I can. You can guesstimate 75% retention
every 4 years under exactly the same conditions
I guesstimated 85% retention every 4 years.
================
Of course,
your lowest figure (75%), if correct,
would mean that the membership rate in one
year would be cut by 1/4 its CURRENT rate
every 4 years (roughly, every presidential
election.)
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igotout
Well, Happy Anniverasry TWI!
http://www.galttech.com/screenshots/titanic2.jpg
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JustThinking
Another factor is the "barely there" types. These functions are like Christmas and Easter for the occasional christian. It would be wrong to measure attendance just on those days.
TWI was allowing a lot of attendance flexibility to keep their numbers up when I bailed. Just subscribing to something was enough to keep you in good standing. A head count of people actually showing up in person in any given week is likely to be half of that "about" 5000 or less. Kids don't come frequently (school work, doncha know) and many adults come once per week, tops. (As of about two years ago)
The truly hardcore headcount therefore is probably less than two thousand total.
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Nottawayfer
That was probably close before the infamous fog years. Martinpuke scared most of them away with his "follow me or leave" letters, and he caused a major riff with the country coordinator of the country then-known-as Zaire. That probably took out a HUGE amount of people. Martinpuke accused the country coord of being a witch doctor. That CC was in pretty tight with VeePee, so he didn't buy martinpuke's bs.
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socks
As always, very strange.
What's the difference between "Current News" and "What's New"? That's a lot of new, y'know?
Of interest - Claudette Royal's on the first video in the list.
Now that I've watched these videos over a period of time, I've nailed down something I couldn't quite articulate upon first viewing. It's what seems to be the primary message of the performances - absence of individuality and identity. Anyone else notice this?
It's more than the constantly matched dance steps and body movements, although that's a big part of it. It's more the obvious self-satisfaction that goes along with them as if the performers are gleefully saying "see? we're all doing the same thing...!" There's a hammer-like bludgeoning of the point, over and over and over. It's very weird, as if the message is "there will be no individual accomplishment here, no processes completed that aren't decided in advance". And what's acceptable is what you see, over and over and over. The smiles are as real as the practiced steps. The enthusiasm has all the depth of the number of times the routines were practiced.
Interesting.
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ex10
Maybe they should be called "The Stepford Choir" or something. It's actually very sad.
:(--> There's no passion, no excitement, no freaking life. Seems they've had their souls stolen....
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socks
Stepford Choir!
:D-->
There should be a disclaimer before you load the videos - "Warning - Repeated viewings may induce the urge to do bad cha-cha steps!"
The frightening part (and it is frightening to me - the looks in their eyes) is the ease with which they roll through their steps.
"Okay, people! We've got an hour, let's make it count! Leave your brain at the door, there's no need for it. Start at the top, here we go!
One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll, One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll,One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll, stop! Stand...lift...arm....hold....hold....release! Smile...One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll, One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll,One-two, up and roll, three-four, back and stroll.......you in the back, smile! SMILE!!!! DAMMIT! We've got another non-smiler here! Crack that box open, get me another Smiler! Keep moving people, keep it moving!"
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ex10
socks
:D-->
I just had a flashback of Richie D. performing "Who Has Rolled Away the Stone," and being so drenched by the end of the song, he had to change shirts for the next set.
:)-->
I bet they never sweat either.......
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TheHighWay
Oh my... morbid couriosity made me watch all the clips... I still think fondly on a couple of those folks...
But, have you noticed that as they add or replace people, they are about the same age as everyone else? What happened to all the young, enthusiastic musicians? Not there!!!
The choir: I remember when they would "pad" the choir for special events so it filled the stage and filled the auditorium with sound... this was pretty skimpy and lame. A perfect reflection of twi.
And as for the lack of real expression on the faces of the "singing ladies", heck I'd have a plastic smile on my face, too, if I had to remember all those exact steps and hand movements for every single song!! Used to be just the joy in the music was enough to keep people watching... now it's just not way-prod-me-awake unless you have plastic choreography to go along with it.
What's so very sad and scary is that anyone looking at them can see it, but they can't see it themselves. They think they are God's best. Geez.
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Belle
Did Claudette come back as a special treat? The only people who know she moved to "the field" are those who might ask. And where is D*bra Olth*use? They went back through the corps program and I'm pretty sure she was singing again when I left. Wonder if they found another reason to scr#w with them.
The WayGB hasn't been doing a good job of communicating changes that we've suggested. The women in the choir are still wearing those awful tent dresses and those smiles actually look pretty pained to me. It's amazing how you can notice these things once you get out. It's like they are smiling so hard because they are trying to convince themselves that they really are happy.
I'm also surprised that Tr*dy is still there seeing as how she named her son Loy after meathead. I wondered if he was the daddy.
Those clips depress me. I wonder how people can live such empty lives just jumping through hoops like trained monkeys and think they have the "more abundant life" but then I remember that I was there myself not too long ago.
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