Haven't you visited their site? Check out the videos. In addition to being very clean, it's very neat. Not neat as in "I met this guy and he's soooo neat!" or "Your butterfly tatoo! Oh, it's so neat!" but as in orderly. Every brick in a place for maximum blessing. Really, it's quite a place, in the videos. But there's all these, old people talking and wandering around.
It's like, totally old y'know, like there's all these old people and y'know, I mean, they're so y'know completely like, just, all old and they're all talking old talk to other people that are really, just like, all old. And stuff.
I bet a lot of them are starting to get that old person smell too :D-->, Socks.
Though on the surface it looks like Stepford International, don't be fooled. From what I have heard there is a lot of maintenace required on a place like that, some of which is lagging behind. To make it Stepford through and through like they used to do would require more cash flow. They ought to just sell off about half of it, especially that big green warehouse building. It looks so strange out there. And why do they need it?
But come to think of it, even back when they were even more loaded with cash, they were still pretty cheap with living quarters and such. Remeber those trailers? They were so cheap and falling apart. Remineded me of some projects. I often wondered why they didn't just build a nice housing complex. Heck they had millions with which to do it.
I guess a couple of motorcoaches and planes took priority.
Well, we're all getting a little older and smellier, you guys! I guess they are only retaining a remnant of the 70's and 80's believers, who continue on with a "this sucks, but where else can we go" mentality. And TWI was careful to position themselves as the only ones with the whole truth. ('Course, they sort of missed the boat in the I Cor. 13 department.)
Faithful remnant? Well, maybe just a "set in their ways" remnant.
Still doesn't answer my questions, though. Are they still checking up on people, pushing them to witness?
Older, smellier. But cooler. And much cooler than a talking automatron. :D--> I are talking my own words.
I hope you get an answer here, Shaz. Perhaps some still-in stander will speak to your question. I promise not to queer their steer if they do.
Trailers, John. Yes, the trailers. First brought in to house assorted 4th corps. They lined 'em up in the back parking lot west of the EOB, plugged them in and housed everyone through the summer and winter while the pads were laid and utilities ran for them. No water.
But don't envy the souls who populated the Way Prod coach. What do you call 12 people in a big aluminum can moving at 65 mph? A bad laundry load.
Trailer Trivia Factoid # 89: the 4th corps was the first group that had a lot of married couples, whole bunch. The year before the 4th corps came in, everyone received a letter announcing that they would have to bring...their own trailer housing. The Way Nash didn't have housing for everyone. So people had to plan to buy, transport and install their own. Details to follow. Howard Allen would be the contact. I worked in a trailer factory that winter, our WOW year, runnin' on the line putting in electrical outlets and wiring. So we contacted some friends going in and figured we'd split one. I could get a deal on one and actually had a pretty good idea of what we'd need. But those details were pretty sketchy coming back to us, and the $$$ was a minor concern. This went on for a couple months, and in the interim we paid a visit to the Way Nash and tried to figure out exactly where they'd be put, etc. "back there" was pretty much the response. Then we got another letter - forget it, the Way's buying modular housing and will be expanding to accomodate the numbers. Sort of. 4 couples, 8 people per trailer. But at least we had our own rooms, teeny weeny widdle rooms. So it still amazes me to this day that the Way accepted about 40 or so people into the program without a place to put them. --> Or for that matter, the uncompromised exuberance of youth that responded as if that was a perfectly acceptable idea.
But current policies, someone, please! This is just the "on-hold" music!
...Yeah, we need an "innie" to give us an update...
My guess is that visiting twi hdqrts today would sorta be like visiting the astrodome in Houston...the baseball and football teams don't use it anymore...oh, they have a rodeo there and a few other events, but most of the time it just sits there empty. If you walk around the inside of it, it cries out with the ghosts of yesterday...
Well, if my name IS on someone's witnessing list, I can assure you, TWI, I ain't interested!
Besides, if the Word IS already over the world, and everyone has heard who is gonna hear, why does anyone even need to witness?
Hey igotout, don't tell me about Stepford. I used to LIVE there! Not TWI, but Fairfield County, where they recently shot the remake. Did you see it? Funniest line, by Bette Midler: "So I thought, where can I put a whole town made up of robots, and nobody would notice? Connecticut!" Yup, nobody'd notice.
TWI, as well ALL CULTS change tactics to control the flow of cash generated by followers who seek out recruits to do the same by deceptive methods.
shazdancer,
Sorry to hear about your ex becoming prey "again". I also have returned several times after short intervals of "just gotta get away for a while." BUT I kept on during them there "intervals" receiving tape, rag, & phone tag. Never really got away during those times to be able once "again" to have critical thinking. Numb Mind.
One of those "return to the fold" times, I contacted everyone I knew who had left, and attempted to convince them "Ya just don't know what you are missing! missions. That's a thread or 1000 such missions as evident TWIster Sisters. Thank good prudence to all I attempted influence return~~~ REFUSED
Rok On Shaz!!!
Some poster here has a thought: lessons repeated until they are learned... or something like that in my hat (thx 1000)
I remember the 4th Corps being told they had to bring their own trailer! Jxhn & Frxn Nxve were my branch coords at the time-- I remember them scrambling to find $$$ to buy a frikkin trailer when they could barely keep a roof over their heads with Jxhns painting business!
Just shows to go ya what a group of people will do when captivated by such a magnetic personality. No place to put me? I'll live in the frikkin barn! Just let me sit at the feet o' the man o' gawd!
Hi Catcup! Yes, that was the scenario, for a lot of us I'm sure. Money? oh, yeah. Money. How's this gonna work again? It will, don't worry. We'll make it work!
The trailers weren't a bad idea, once it went in to motion but looking back, it was, as usual, half baked in implementation. Hooked up for months with electrical only, no working bathrooms, 80 or so people using two shower rooms in the EOB. If you liked locker rooms it was perfect. When it snowed, bundle up to shower. Shower with 20 or so of your best friends. Trudge back through the snow, change.
Which was a big improvement over the previous bathroom/shower arrangments - the bathroom in the BRC, where there was a metal show stall. That was the earlier facilities the corps used before the EOB went in.
When we were making the treks to Ohio, this all seemed like such a wonderful opportunity. Even at the tender age of 20, it was clear the Way didn't have all it's ducks in a row quacking. It was "quaint", but not together. PFAL had only been on film for a couple of years when I first went there. So it appeared for a few years like this was a unique time and place - a chance to be a part of building something good, at a time when a lot of building still needed to be done.
Socks, you brought back a repressed memory or two. Those showers in the EOB! Year I lived there we had the "I survived the blizzards of 78" year. No showers possible some mornings. Got up one day and snow blocked us in, literally covering the front to the roof. We had to dig ourselves out. (Though VPW asked me to stay, I moved to Florida the following year, thank you very much. :D-->)
You guys had it made with only 8 to a trailer. We had 16 of us single guys in trailer 7, mostly all Way Builders, making $30 a month. It was not a pretty site. :D--> I was a maintenance man part of the year in Way Builders. The trailers were trash, believe me. Us Way Builders could have easily built better housing and demolished those things. We even had Randy and Mark on staff who were architects.
I think that was the year Way Builders built Rosie's 2 story house with a basement. To my knowledge she paid for it but the labor and costs were certainly cheap. Also Howard's and Dorothy's houses were remodeled very nicely as well as Bo & Stanley's A frame cabin in the woods. And the grandaddy of them all, The Way Corps Chalet, was moving along very nicely too. We had to rush to finish the big green boxy warehouse in the field but got it done in the nick of time.
After long 12 hours days we trudged back to our trashed trailers.
I didn't really see it as "kindler and/or gentler" so much as more cautious. The leaders meetings on the field reminded me of a bunker mentality. There was NO indication of "gee, maybe we didn't do a good job..." None at all! Like many groups who don't know what to do in a crisis, they resorted to going to the other extreme. Cirle the wagons and appear as unthreatening and vanilla as possible to avoid controversy. The end result is a dull, lifeless environment that made even hard core wayfers yawn.
If it were a company, I would say they had no product to sell but were trying desperately to come up with SOMETHING. Kind of like buggy whip makers after the car came out. They can't actually expain their reason to exist. Their problem (IMO) is that the whole business was based on a promoting a cult of personality. Unfortunately, Rosie ain't gonna cut it so now what? Tread water until they can come up with something better. If I had to guess, they are working on a new foundational class that tries to "get back to basics" and erases Craig from the walls of Egypt, oops, Zion. They'll probably pull out the most soft spoken, Osmond-like, photogenic Corps person they have and put him/her in front of the camera. (With all apologies to the Osmond family)
-- Are they still required to witness?
Yes but it was different. It was more group attacks than two-by-two. There just aren't enough people to do it with any regularity any more. It was pretty common for every excuse in the book to get pulled out to avoid the "witness draft." It is easier to get out of than it used to be. They seem very worried about holding on to what's left of the witless remnant.
-- Do they have to fill out "Redeem the Time" sheets?
Only the corpse, if that. When your whole branch is about 20 people, it's pretty easy to watch them.
-- Does leadership still breathe down their necks, poke into their personal lives?
Ditto. If there is a local herd, it's probably very small. And the people left are so conditioned to tell everything about their life that they don't even have to force it anymore. There was some pulling back from that though after Craig was shown the door. Now the corpse was a very different story. Still lots of documenting your whole life.
So, yes, there were many surface changes. The thought process is the same though. If they ever start to grow again, they still have a base of well-trained Wayferbots. It will likely be a repeat of the early 90s when Craig was Mr. Nice guy for a while then reverted to form.
While there is less focus on giving of time, there is still a lot of focus on giving of money.
Most plugs for Corpse, Wayward disciples, etc. all come across as a bore. Everyone has heard it 9 million times. The average age is really getting up there so the size of each group is very small. Those doing it are mostly a few people who going in the corpse (which means it is mandatory) or the kids of the die-hard old grads. Almost no new young people going in on their own.
If they manage to scrape together 3 new people for a class (lowered from 7), you can bet that at least one or two will be kids of old grads. In my last three years, all of our new students were wayfer kids with one exception. Of the few people in our state who did take Craig's class, not one single person stayed more than a year. It really is the same old bunch.
People are just going through the motions. No one enthusiastically witnesses anymore and those "I was so blessed....." lines are monotonous now because people can't even pretend to be excited.
Single people are scared because they know the pool of potential mates is pretty shallow.
There is a general sense of apathy toward the ministry when I talk to people who are still in. The term "zombie" doesn't really work, but it's similar to that when it comes to twits.
Everything is pretty bland with the same ole subtle and not-so subtle messages behind the messages encouraging and blackmailing people to give more - more time, more money, more witnessing, more service, more dedication, etc. They still want your life and they still want to control it so they are keeping the manipulative aspects of the past that worked and are trying "nicer" tactics where past manipulation hasn't worked.
They still haven't encouraged anyone to contact family members who they alienated during twit II. I think the only people left are those who are afraid of change, afraid of leaving the protection of zion or are too worn down to put up the intial fight they think they would have to battle to get out. Those are the adults. The teens are just biding their time till they can leave.
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socks
Haven't you visited their site? Check out the videos. In addition to being very clean, it's very neat. Not neat as in "I met this guy and he's soooo neat!" or "Your butterfly tatoo! Oh, it's so neat!" but as in orderly. Every brick in a place for maximum blessing. Really, it's quite a place, in the videos. But there's all these, old people talking and wandering around.
It's like, totally old y'know, like there's all these old people and y'know, I mean, they're so y'know completely like, just, all old and they're all talking old talk to other people that are really, just like, all old. And stuff.
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igotout
I bet a lot of them are starting to get that old person smell too
:D-->, Socks.
Though on the surface it looks like Stepford International, don't be fooled. From what I have heard there is a lot of maintenace required on a place like that, some of which is lagging behind. To make it Stepford through and through like they used to do would require more cash flow. They ought to just sell off about half of it, especially that big green warehouse building. It looks so strange out there. And why do they need it?
But come to think of it, even back when they were even more loaded with cash, they were still pretty cheap with living quarters and such. Remeber those trailers? They were so cheap and falling apart. Remineded me of some projects. I often wondered why they didn't just build a nice housing complex. Heck they had millions with which to do it.
I guess a couple of motorcoaches and planes took priority.
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shazdancer
Well, we're all getting a little older and smellier, you guys! I guess they are only retaining a remnant of the 70's and 80's believers, who continue on with a "this sucks, but where else can we go" mentality. And TWI was careful to position themselves as the only ones with the whole truth. ('Course, they sort of missed the boat in the I Cor. 13 department.)
Faithful remnant? Well, maybe just a "set in their ways" remnant.
Still doesn't answer my questions, though. Are they still checking up on people, pushing them to witness?
Regards,
Shaz
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socks
Older, smellier. But cooler.
And much cooler than a talking automatron. 
:D--> I are talking my own words.
I hope you get an answer here, Shaz. Perhaps some still-in stander will speak to your question. I promise not to queer their steer if they do.
Trailers, John. Yes, the trailers. First brought in to house assorted 4th corps. They lined 'em up in the back parking lot west of the EOB, plugged them in and housed everyone through the summer and winter while the pads were laid and utilities ran for them. No water.
But don't envy the souls who populated the Way Prod coach. What do you call 12 people in a big aluminum can moving at 65 mph? A bad laundry load.
Trailer Trivia Factoid # 89: the 4th corps was the first group that had a lot of married couples, whole bunch. The year before the 4th corps came in, everyone received a letter announcing that they would have to bring...their own trailer housing. The Way Nash didn't have housing for everyone. So people had to plan to buy, transport and install their own. Details to follow.
Howard Allen would be the contact. I worked in a trailer factory that winter, our WOW year, runnin' on the line putting in electrical outlets and wiring. So we contacted some friends going in and figured we'd split one. I could get a deal on one and actually had a pretty good idea of what we'd need. But those details were pretty sketchy coming back to us, and the $$$ was a minor concern. This went on for a couple months, and in the interim we paid a visit to the Way Nash and tried to figure out exactly where they'd be put, etc. "back there" was pretty much the response. Then we got another letter - forget it, the Way's buying modular housing and will be expanding to accomodate the numbers. Sort of. 4 couples, 8 people per trailer. But at least we had our own rooms, teeny weeny widdle rooms. So it still amazes me to this day that the Way accepted about 40 or so people into the program without a place to put them. 
--> 
Or for that matter, the uncompromised exuberance of youth that responded as if that was a perfectly acceptable idea.
But current policies, someone, please! This is just the "on-hold" music!
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GrouchoMarxJr
...Yeah, we need an "innie" to give us an update...
My guess is that visiting twi hdqrts today would sorta be like visiting the astrodome in Houston...the baseball and football teams don't use it anymore...oh, they have a rodeo there and a few other events, but most of the time it just sits there empty. If you walk around the inside of it, it cries out with the ghosts of yesterday...
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Radar OReilly
Laughing my butt off !
;)-->
ror
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shazdancer
Well, if my name IS on someone's witnessing list, I can assure you, TWI, I ain't interested!
Besides, if the Word IS already over the world, and everyone has heard who is gonna hear, why does anyone even need to witness?
Hey igotout, don't tell me about Stepford. I used to LIVE there! Not TWI, but Fairfield County, where they recently shot the remake. Did you see it? Funniest line, by Bette Midler: "So I thought, where can I put a whole town made up of robots, and nobody would notice? Connecticut!" Yup, nobody'd notice.
Regards,
Shaz
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
TWI, as well ALL CULTS change tactics to control the flow of cash generated by followers who seek out recruits to do the same by deceptive methods.
shazdancer,
Sorry to hear about your ex becoming prey "again". I also have returned several times after short intervals of "just gotta get away for a while." BUT I kept on during them there "intervals" receiving tape, rag, & phone tag. Never really got away during those times to be able once "again" to have critical thinking. Numb Mind.
One of those "return to the fold" times, I contacted everyone I knew who had left, and attempted to convince them "Ya just don't know what you are missing! missions. That's a thread or 1000 such missions as evident TWIster Sisters. Thank good prudence to all I attempted influence return~~~ REFUSED
Rok On Shaz!!!
Some poster here has a thought: lessons repeated until they are learned... or something like that in my hat (thx 1000)
DIG
SONG
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shazdancer
Thanks, Song, but with TWI and my ex, I think the predation is mutual!
:D-->
Regards,
Shaz
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Catcup
Socks!
I remember the 4th Corps being told they had to bring their own trailer! Jxhn & Frxn Nxve were my branch coords at the time-- I remember them scrambling to find $$$ to buy a frikkin trailer when they could barely keep a roof over their heads with Jxhns painting business!
Just shows to go ya what a group of people will do when captivated by such a magnetic personality. No place to put me? I'll live in the frikkin barn! Just let me sit at the feet o' the man o' gawd!
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socks
Hi Catcup! Yes, that was the scenario, for a lot of us I'm sure. Money? oh, yeah. Money. How's this gonna work again? It will, don't worry. We'll make it work!
The trailers weren't a bad idea, once it went in to motion but looking back, it was, as usual, half baked in implementation. Hooked up for months with electrical only, no working bathrooms, 80 or so people using two shower rooms in the EOB. If you liked locker rooms it was perfect. When it snowed, bundle up to shower. Shower with 20 or so of your best friends. Trudge back through the snow, change.
Which was a big improvement over the previous bathroom/shower arrangments - the bathroom in the BRC, where there was a metal show stall. That was the earlier facilities the corps used before the EOB went in.
When we were making the treks to Ohio, this all seemed like such a wonderful opportunity. Even at the tender age of 20, it was clear the Way didn't have all it's ducks in a row quacking. It was "quaint", but not together. PFAL had only been on film for a couple of years when I first went there. So it appeared for a few years like this was a unique time and place - a chance to be a part of building something good, at a time when a lot of building still needed to be done.
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JustThinking
Shaz,
I have been out just under 2 years. Is that close enough?
JT
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shazdancer
Close enough, JT. So what's the scoop?
And anybody else who wants to contribute to my question privately, feel free to PT or email.
Regards,
Shaz
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igotout
Socks, you brought back a repressed memory or two. Those showers in the EOB! Year I lived there we had the "I survived the blizzards of 78" year. No showers possible some mornings. Got up one day and snow blocked us in, literally covering the front to the roof. We had to dig ourselves out. (Though VPW asked me to stay, I moved to Florida the following year, thank you very much.
:D-->)
You guys had it made with only 8 to a trailer. We had 16 of us single guys in trailer 7, mostly all Way Builders, making $30 a month. It was not a pretty site.
:D--> I was a maintenance man part of the year in Way Builders. The trailers were trash, believe me. Us Way Builders could have easily built better housing and demolished those things. We even had Randy and Mark on staff who were architects.
I think that was the year Way Builders built Rosie's 2 story house with a basement. To my knowledge she paid for it but the labor and costs were certainly cheap. Also Howard's and Dorothy's houses were remodeled very nicely as well as Bo & Stanley's A frame cabin in the woods. And the grandaddy of them all, The Way Corps Chalet, was moving along very nicely too. We had to rush to finish the big green boxy warehouse in the field but got it done in the nick of time.
After long 12 hours days we trudged back to our trashed trailers.
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alfakat
let's not even talk about the wonderful heating systems in trailers 6 and 7, or the spacious, functional bathroom facilities...
--> 
--> 
... maybe us 6xxxkkxthpphtt kork staffers trashed em for ya, John...
alfakat, furn refinishing crew 76/77 interim year staff HQ trailer 7 yee-HAAAWWWW
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JustThinking
Shaz,
I didn't really see it as "kindler and/or gentler" so much as more cautious. The leaders meetings on the field reminded me of a bunker mentality. There was NO indication of "gee, maybe we didn't do a good job..." None at all! Like many groups who don't know what to do in a crisis, they resorted to going to the other extreme. Cirle the wagons and appear as unthreatening and vanilla as possible to avoid controversy. The end result is a dull, lifeless environment that made even hard core wayfers yawn.
If it were a company, I would say they had no product to sell but were trying desperately to come up with SOMETHING. Kind of like buggy whip makers after the car came out. They can't actually expain their reason to exist. Their problem (IMO) is that the whole business was based on a promoting a cult of personality. Unfortunately, Rosie ain't gonna cut it so now what? Tread water until they can come up with something better. If I had to guess, they are working on a new foundational class that tries to "get back to basics" and erases Craig from the walls of Egypt, oops, Zion. They'll probably pull out the most soft spoken, Osmond-like, photogenic Corps person they have and put him/her in front of the camera. (With all apologies to the Osmond family)
-- Are they still required to witness?
Yes but it was different. It was more group attacks than two-by-two. There just aren't enough people to do it with any regularity any more. It was pretty common for every excuse in the book to get pulled out to avoid the "witness draft." It is easier to get out of than it used to be. They seem very worried about holding on to what's left of the witless remnant.
-- Do they have to fill out "Redeem the Time" sheets?
Only the corpse, if that. When your whole branch is about 20 people, it's pretty easy to watch them.
-- Does leadership still breathe down their necks, poke into their personal lives?
Ditto. If there is a local herd, it's probably very small. And the people left are so conditioned to tell everything about their life that they don't even have to force it anymore. There was some pulling back from that though after Craig was shown the door. Now the corpse was a very different story. Still lots of documenting your whole life.
So, yes, there were many surface changes. The thought process is the same though. If they ever start to grow again, they still have a base of well-trained Wayferbots. It will likely be a repeat of the early 90s when Craig was Mr. Nice guy for a while then reverted to form.
While there is less focus on giving of time, there is still a lot of focus on giving of money.
Most plugs for Corpse, Wayward disciples, etc. all come across as a bore. Everyone has heard it 9 million times. The average age is really getting up there so the size of each group is very small. Those doing it are mostly a few people who going in the corpse (which means it is mandatory) or the kids of the die-hard old grads. Almost no new young people going in on their own.
If they manage to scrape together 3 new people for a class (lowered from 7), you can bet that at least one or two will be kids of old grads. In my last three years, all of our new students were wayfer kids with one exception. Of the few people in our state who did take Craig's class, not one single person stayed more than a year. It really is the same old bunch.
What else can I tell you?
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pjroberge
TWI now is about $50,000.00 poorer after our lawsuit. Your abs at work...
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excathedra
what ever happened ?
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pjroberge
ex:
I posted about it and the censor put it into moderation. You can read the documents at www.twisucks.com under lawsuits
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excathedra
thank you
:)-->
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Belle
People are just going through the motions. No one enthusiastically witnesses anymore and those "I was so blessed....." lines are monotonous now because people can't even pretend to be excited.
Single people are scared because they know the pool of potential mates is pretty shallow.
There is a general sense of apathy toward the ministry when I talk to people who are still in. The term "zombie" doesn't really work, but it's similar to that when it comes to twits.
Everything is pretty bland with the same ole subtle and not-so subtle messages behind the messages encouraging and blackmailing people to give more - more time, more money, more witnessing, more service, more dedication, etc. They still want your life and they still want to control it so they are keeping the manipulative aspects of the past that worked and are trying "nicer" tactics where past manipulation hasn't worked.
They still haven't encouraged anyone to contact family members who they alienated during twit II. I think the only people left are those who are afraid of change, afraid of leaving the protection of zion or are too worn down to put up the intial fight they think they would have to battle to get out. Those are the adults. The teens are just biding their time till they can leave.
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rascal
Yucky ..
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JustThinking
The spiritual flavor of Elmer's Glue. No taste but it makes you sick.
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skyrider
In the past couple of months, I've talked to a few innies. Here is what I found out....
* One couple bought a house....and are no longer fellowship coordinators.
* One couple is traveling lots more....no longer corps-committed.
* One keeps "believing" for things to change....and the excitement to return.
* One kept emphasizing her son's educational adventures....now that he is no longer on twi's payroll. He's paving new roads to travel.
* One told of a limb meeting with less than 40 people....and how things were ho-hum.
These are innie observations.
:D-->
Their "testimonials" wouldn't convince a man dying of thirst to drink at twi's fountain of spewwwth.
skyrider
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