Those 6 children (and more) ...catcups individual (and more)..... my destroyed child (and more) ....the suicides .........the divorces....the children thrown out...the parents and ailing family members neglected.....so much death and pain...so much anguish and misery...THAT is the legacy of your ministry and false minister......he didn`t even have the decency or character to admit when he was caught.....he just defamed the victim....he was a slimey molesting lying pos that helped himself to that which was never his......and you folks want to defend him??....geeze..have you ever considered that you might be just as deluded and wrong as he?
Definatly not the legacy of a true man of God or ministry....just a wannabe
I have no doubt that vp prided himself as a world class minister....but without the spirit of God....it was nothing but rotten works.
That's a ludicrous (and ignorant) conclusion to come to CW. It almost sounds as if your saying life can't teach anybody anything so one should toss it all out. People also learn from mistakes they make. I haven't found a single person yet who ever tossed out that education.
That's a ludicrous (and ignorant) conclusion to come to CW. It almost sounds as if your saying life can't teach anybody anything so one should toss it all out. People also learn from mistakes they make. I haven't found a single person yet who ever tossed out that education.
What is, WTH?
That twi has only fool's gold in a fool's pocket?
That tossing it all out won't hurt anything...except the fool's feelings?
Guys...you contaminate yourself by aligning yourself with that sorry pos predator ...
You paint yourself with the same brush when you excuse his actions and negate the pain and destruction endured at his hands and of those he taught his destructiiiive ways.
Very few people have managed to hurt so many...have managed to influence so many to do likewise...even folks that CLAIM to want to harm...and yet because he spouted scripture....it is viewed as excusable.
That's a ludicrous (and ignorant) conclusion to come to CW. It almost sounds as if your saying life can't teach anybody anything so one should toss it all out. People also learn from mistakes they make. I haven't found a single person yet who ever tossed out that education.
tossing out the fool's gold is the action taken as a result of the education, wattahayseed.
Surely you remember "The aim of all education is action."
As Catcup said, it will come back to you if it is valid, without the garbage wrappers....
I am sure that people own dynamic tapes by all kinds of con-men, so what??? It was not his Sunday Service tapes that betrayed people's souls, get a freaking clue... how dim can u be????
quote:Here's what I believe: when Wierwille was walking by the flesh, he was walking by the flesh. When he was walking by the spirit, he was walking by the spirit.
YOU seem to be of the viewpoint that it was impossible for Wierwille to receive anything from the true God, or communicate anything from the true God, because Wierwille walked by the flesh too much. I do not believe this ...
I think this is the same old crap about God not dealing with anyone unclean ...
I think there are two views of the motives behind the ministry of Victor Paul Wierwille (if you believe he did half of what he has been accused of):
1.) When he was good, he was very, very good; when he was bad, he was horrid.
2.) When he was good, he was doing it for his own selfish reasons.
I have a problem with Viewpoint #1. For a man to be that cruel, uncaring, and selfish on the one hand, and yet to be as generous, caring, and unselfish as he portrayed himself to be, he would have to be psychotic. Are you arguing that he was? One minute he was one of the most loving and loved of God, the next he was motivated to evil deeds beyond the desires of most unbelievers, and back and forth, often on the same day?
In Viewpoint #2, Wierwille spoke the truth at times, but only because he wanted to be seen as an altruistic man. It gave him access to the things he wanted: power, adulation, privileges, sex. It also served to bolster Wierwille's need to be special. He could justify needing more than the average man, and of being above the average man, because of the burdens of his special calling of God. If people got born again or delivered, it only served to bolster his ego.
Go ahead, oldies, be thankful that good things happened to you while you were in TWI. In fact, be very grateful that the things that happened to others did not happen to you.
As for me, I will go with Catcup's response. Throw it all out, then go back if you want and examine the Bible point by point, and live by those things that make sense.
That is where the rub lies. OM rarly uses the bible. It's always a quote from his idol or idol group twi 1.
Hey oldies the freedom comes when you release yourself from the trap of those broken ways.
True peace can only come from the prince of peace.
Oldies of all that you have written over the years how many times or have you every tryed to help any one by giving them a truth from the bible? From my sitting spot OM=love for twi 1 and vp. Have you ever developed a true relationship with God? Are you just doing what the old pfal said? Whatevere dude keep it all baby, bath water, fish, bones, idols when it's all said and done you will still be calling some of us liars because vp was such a great man.
By his grace we were saved. The sad part you exchanged His God's grace for VPs. Thank God vp showed up with pfal.
I say thank God that he showed up with his savior Jesus Christ.
Very sad you know more quotes from a drunk egotist than the true God. Maybe that's the rub. Some where you learned as a good RC not the have false God's before me.
I think it says another place from the abundance of the heart the mouth speak. What is your heart filled with? I honestly can not remeber you reaching out to help anyone here but to be that crtic and prove how wonderful it all was.
I pray my life is not filled in a delusion and when somone sees me are read me is not a big mess.
Your line in the begining of all of this said WE all leaned the Worrrrrrrrd. It apears not all. Get a pair of sisorrs and cut the brush a little the stoke was to big. My whole point here is vps word does not equal God's word. If there is such a thing.
quote:YES, "God and his word" stopped moving in that young woman's life right then and there. She was irreparably damaged. And you can multiply that times however many women he did this to.
There's no doubt in my mind that Wierwille's evil works caused some folks to get hurt. ...
quote:Just for the record I saw more of Galatians 5:22,23 in VPW's life than any other minister I ever met.
There's no doubt in my mind that Wierwille's good works caused some folks to get help. ...
I just wanted a record that Oldies admitted that vpw did "evil works."
Wierwille's sex club and his other sins didn't stop God and his word from moving in twi-1.
Yes, my whole family appreciated from those who moved the word in twi-1, along with a whole lot of other folks.
The fact that those secret evil things happened doesn't change the blessings that happened, and I'm not going to renounce the blessings of God working in people's lives. Those are factual, historical realities.
The fact that you keep bringing the evil up and can't stop doing it, only proves that that's all your concerned about. That's all you care to remember.
Rascal you certainly have a right to dwell on whatever you want, just don't expect me to follow your example.
Granted,
he still wants to say it was ok for vpw to be a part-time sinner and a
part-time holder of a tremendous spiritual responsibility to God and for
His people, but this was an admission that there were "secret evil things"
and sexual transgressions".
The next time these are denied, I can bring this back.
I believe when the doctrine has been so poisoned by the behavior of a person this closely attached to it, you lose NOTHING by tossing out the MAN AND THE DOCTRINE.
If the doctrine was correct, and truthful, then it can be corroborated by TRUE INDEPENDENT RESEARCH.
Then the truth is recovered, without being tainted by the poisonous brew of hypocritical practices and harmful mental habit patterns.
Get rid of the old terminology which causes the mind to simply go numbly humming along the same cultic mental ruts and destroys critical thinking.
You will not learn to think for yourself again until those mental habit patterns are shattered.
The truth will stand. Toss it out. Toss it all out.
Then approach the Word with a fresh viewpoint. And do HONEST TO GOD TRUE RESEARCH. If it was real truth, guess what? YOU WILL FIND IT AGAIN, and this time without all the putrid rotting garbage that was wrapped around it.
Those who WANT deliverance, Catcup, can do this.
Those who DON'T want deliverance, Catcup, won't do this.
They'd rather just block out the more evil events, and pretend the
rest of us didnt notice events that looked totally virtuous and innocent.
quote:Here's what I believe: when Wierwille was walking by the flesh, he was walking by the flesh. When he was walking by the spirit, he was walking by the spirit.
YOU seem to be of the viewpoint that it was impossible for Wierwille to receive anything from the true God, or communicate anything from the true God, because Wierwille walked by the flesh too much. I do not believe this ...
I think this is the same old crap about God not dealing with anyone unclean ...
I think there are two views of the motives behind the ministry of Victor Paul Wierwille (if you believe he did half of what he has been accused of):
1.) When he was good, he was very, very good; when he was bad, he was horrid.
2.) When he was good, he was doing it for his own selfish reasons.
I have a problem with Viewpoint #1. For a man to be that cruel, uncaring, and selfish on the one hand, and yet to be as generous, caring, and unselfish as he portrayed himself to be, he would have to be psychotic. Are you arguing that he was? One minute he was one of the most loving and loved of God, the next he was motivated to evil deeds beyond the desires of most unbelievers, and back and forth, often on the same day?
In Viewpoint #2, Wierwille spoke the truth at times, but only because he wanted to be _seen_ as an altruistic man. It gave him access to the things he wanted: power, adulation, privileges, sex. It also served to bolster Wierwille's need to be special. He could justify needing more than the average man, and of being above the average man, because of the burdens of his special calling of God. If people got born again or delivered, it only served to bolster his ego.
Go ahead, oldies, be thankful that good things happened to you while you were in TWI. In fact, be very grateful that the things that happened to others did not happen to you.
As for me, I will go with Catcup's response. Throw it all out, then go back if you want and examine the Bible point by point, and live by those things that make sense.
I don't think God would mind.
Shaz
Shaz,
are you suggesting the cognitive dissonance of trying to reconcile doing
very godly, altruistic things at one hour,
and committing criminal acts and sexual violations the next hour,
would make it impossible, in the long run,
to function in a healthy, godly fashion?
I agree. Any psychologist worth his salt could tell anyone that,
That is where the rub lies- OM rarly USES the bible. It's always a quote from his idol or idol group twi 1.
Hey, oldies- the freedom comes when you release yourself from the trap of those broken ways.
True peace can only come from the Prince of Peace.
Oldies, of all that you have written over the years,
how many times have you-if ever-tried to help anyone by giving them a truth from the Bible? From my sitting spot,
OM=love for twi 1 and vp.
Have you ever developed a true relationship with God? Are you just doing what the old pfal said? Whatever, dude- keep it all: baby, bathwater, fish, bones, idols... when it's all said and done, you will still be calling some of us liars because vp was such a great man.
By His grace we were saved. The sad part is, you exchanged His God's grace for VPs. "Thank God vp showed up with pfal."
I say, "Thank God that he showed up with His savior, Jesus Christ."
Very sad you know more quotes from a drunk egotist than the true God. Maybe that's the rub. Somewhere you learned as a good RC not to have false God's before God.
I think it says another place "From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." What is your heart filled with? I honestly can not remember you reaching out to help anyone here but to be that critic and prove how wonderful it all was.
I pray my life is not filled in a delusion and when somone sees me or reads me it's not a big mess.
Your line in the begining of all of this said: we ALL learned the Worrrrrrrrd. It appears NOT all. Get a pair of scissors and cut the brush a little- the stroke was too big.
My whole point here is vp's word does not equal God's word. If there is such a thing.
I thought this post had some good points, Danny, so forgive me for editing.
I mostly added punctuation and some spaces, and fixed typos.
quote:I have a problem with Viewpoint #1. For a man to be that cruel, uncaring, and selfish on the one hand, and yet to be as generous, caring, and unselfish as he portrayed himself to be, he would have to be psychotic. Are you arguing that he was? One minute he was one of the most loving and loved of God, the next he was motivated to evil deeds beyond the desires of most unbelievers, and back and forth, often on the same day? ...
Shaz, was Wierwille a psycho? ha ha... I think he was something of an enigma, someone who speaks God's Word, then practices these secret disgusting things behind the scenes. Looks like he walked by the flesh and made a habit out of it, and should have had more control over himself. (sometimes I feel that way about myself too). Maybe there's something to the fact that he had all that power, and nobody to keep him in check? I am reminded of the words of Lord Acton: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
quote:As for me, I will go with Catcup's response. Throw it all out, then go back if you want and examine the Bible point by point, and live by those things that make sense.
I prefer to keep what things already make sense, then if someone comes along with a better or more accurate truth, I go with that. It simply doesn't make sense, to me anyway, for me to throw out what already makes sense, unless something better comes along to replace it.
But but BUT.... The power WOULDN`T have corrupted had wierwille been a man of the spirit. ..PERIOD ....yet another attempt to excuse heinous behavior and make it seem understandable..
These behaviors will hold no apeal to one of the spirit...THAT is how you can TELL whether or not someone is *of the spirit*...Duh
If you personally feel oldies, that sometimes you have a tough time *controlling yourself* or not exhibiting some of these behaviors....there for wierwilles succumbing is understandable.....that would explain why you wouldn`t want to accept galations explanation of vp`s being of the flesh.....you would prefer to think of yourself.. vp many of his hand picked leaders as simply *part time* sinners...sounds a lot nicer than *man of the flesh with no inheritance in the kingdom of God*
quote:Shaz, was Wierwille a psycho? ha ha... I think he was something of an enigma, someone who speaks God's Word, then practices these secret disgusting things behind the scenes. Looks like he walked by the flesh and made a habit out of it, and should have had more control over himself. (sometimes I feel that way about myself too). Maybe there's something to the fact that he had all that power, and nobody to keep him in check? I am reminded of the words of Lord Acton: power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Yup, I have sinned, too, but never wanted to trick young people into having sex with me -- have you?
I have never said I was especially chosen of God to deliver His Word like it has not been seen since the first century, yada yada. No snow on my gas pumps. But even without such great confirmation that there is a God, I just don't live like that. Do you? Yet Wierwille claims to have had a huge confirmation of God's existence, yet it did nothing to improve his life, apparently. (Mike would have us believe that he was an improvement over what he would have been without God. I guess then he would have been a mass murderer or something. Not exactly a candidate for Twig leader, much less MOGFODAT.)
At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseum: the Bible says God gives His revelation to holy men. Wierwille was not a holy man. Even you admit this, oldies.
And if there was no one to keep him in check, whose idea was that? Who set up the organization to begin with? Who fired those who tried to talk to him?
So now you want to say that the power did it. In other words, when God calls someone and gives him special revelation, a special gift ministry, he's gonna get corrupt -- it's the power's fault. Hmm, made me think of Paul. Wierwille liked to compare himself with Paul a lot, remember? Paul was full of corrupt political power before meeting Christ on the road to Damascus. But somehow, he became the humblest of the humble afterward. So much for the "power corrupts" theory....
Wierwille's dichotomy does not seem enigmatic at all if you understand anything about personality disorder. He fits the profile to a T. His actions truly spoke louder than his words.
quote:Looks like he walked by the flesh and made a habit out of it, and should have had more control over himself. (sometimes I feel that way about myself too).
Very interesting....wierwille came up with a ministry and doctrine that ALLOWED himself and those he chose to indulge in immoral at times even criminal behavior without impunity!
Pretty darn clever to find a way to make the indulgance of your vices acceptable and appear even Godly....in DIRECT contradiction of the scriptures that you utilise in order to appear as a spiritually healthy organisation....whew
quote:Wierwille's dichotomy does not seem enigmatic at all if you understand anything about personality disorder. He fits the profile to a T. His actions truly spoke louder than his words.
And therefore, we have to throw away everything we were taught in twi, and start over, right? Shaz, let's assume that Wierwille was psychotic. So what? It's virtually meaningless now. It still doesn't change the fact that PFAL and ooodles of other teachings of his and others can be accurately representing the true God. It is quite possible, and lots of folks still believe it.
If you want to take each and every jot and tittle of his teachings and examine them to see if they make sense and are true, that's your right and privilege. Go ahead. I am not of the view that just because Wierwille said something, that it must be true, and therefore, is exempt from examination ...
On the other hand, if some of his teachings are accepted as truth, I believe they stand alone and are truth alone irrespective of how he lived his life. In that case, he didn't use his best efforts to adhere to the teachings in practice and wasn't the man he knew he should be. But truth is still truth.
If you or anyone else comes up with something that makes more sense than the truths we already received, I'm all ears.
But saying Wierwille was psychotic is virtually meaningless at this point. Reminds me of something John Lynn said: we are free from Egypt, and "took the gold."
Ummm lessee what do we define as truth...wierwille taught so many outragious things in order to justify the sating of his lusts...He had no moral compass...showed himselfto be of very poor character...and was shown to have had very little integrety...
It seems very silly to trust anything he taught...or defined as *truth* ...it would be foolhardy to entrust the well being of our spiritual souls to any possible truths that a man such as he might have managed to keep from contaminating.
Hmm...Oldies throws out some of what Wierwille taught, but that's just because it "makes sense" and "nothing better has come along"...anyone else throws out some of what Wierwille taught andthey are "renouncing 'The Word' because of Wierwille's sins".
I didn't say "anyone else" or "everyone else", I said some folks. Nice try, Oakspear.
It looks to me like some of these folks expressing themselves on these threads have dumped every teaching twi had to offer, because of Wierwille's transgressions. The Leaven Principle, I guess. If that doesn't apply to you, Oakspear, it doesn't apply. I didn't suggest otherwise. That's up to you to admit or deny.
And NOW it`s *dumped every teaching that twi ever taught* because of wierwille`s transgressions ... that is quite a far cry from *renouncing the word* because of others sins .......as you accused us of before.
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rascal
Those 6 children (and more) ...catcups individual (and more)..... my destroyed child (and more) ....the suicides .........the divorces....the children thrown out...the parents and ailing family members neglected.....so much death and pain...so much anguish and misery...THAT is the legacy of your ministry and false minister......he didn`t even have the decency or character to admit when he was caught.....he just defamed the victim....he was a slimey molesting lying pos that helped himself to that which was never his......and you folks want to defend him??....geeze..have you ever considered that you might be just as deluded and wrong as he?
Definatly not the legacy of a true man of God or ministry....just a wannabe
I have no doubt that vp prided himself as a world class minister....but without the spirit of God....it was nothing but rotten works.
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What The Hay
That's a ludicrous (and ignorant) conclusion to come to CW. It almost sounds as if your saying life can't teach anybody anything so one should toss it all out. People also learn from mistakes they make. I haven't found a single person yet who ever tossed out that education.
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CoolWaters
What is, WTH?
That twi has only fool's gold in a fool's pocket?
That tossing it all out won't hurt anything...except the fool's feelings?
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rascal
Guys...you contaminate yourself by aligning yourself with that sorry pos predator ...
You paint yourself with the same brush when you excuse his actions and negate the pain and destruction endured at his hands and of those he taught his destructiiiive ways.
Very few people have managed to hurt so many...have managed to influence so many to do likewise...even folks that CLAIM to want to harm...and yet because he spouted scripture....it is viewed as excusable.
Satan spews scripture as well....
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alfakat
tossing out the fool's gold is the action taken as a result of the education, wattahayseed.
Surely you remember "The aim of all education is action."
As Catcup said, it will come back to you if it is valid, without the garbage wrappers....
I am sure that people own dynamic tapes by all kinds of con-men, so what??? It was not his Sunday Service tapes that betrayed people's souls, get a freaking clue... how dim can u be????
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shazdancer
oldies,
You said
I think there are two views of the motives behind the ministry of Victor Paul Wierwille (if you believe he did half of what he has been accused of):
1.) When he was good, he was very, very good; when he was bad, he was horrid.
2.) When he was good, he was doing it for his own selfish reasons.
I have a problem with Viewpoint #1. For a man to be that cruel, uncaring, and selfish on the one hand, and yet to be as generous, caring, and unselfish as he portrayed himself to be, he would have to be psychotic. Are you arguing that he was? One minute he was one of the most loving and loved of God, the next he was motivated to evil deeds beyond the desires of most unbelievers, and back and forth, often on the same day?
In Viewpoint #2, Wierwille spoke the truth at times, but only because he wanted to be seen as an altruistic man. It gave him access to the things he wanted: power, adulation, privileges, sex. It also served to bolster Wierwille's need to be special. He could justify needing more than the average man, and of being above the average man, because of the burdens of his special calling of God. If people got born again or delivered, it only served to bolster his ego.
Go ahead, oldies, be thankful that good things happened to you while you were in TWI. In fact, be very grateful that the things that happened to others did not happen to you.
As for me, I will go with Catcup's response. Throw it all out, then go back if you want and examine the Bible point by point, and live by those things that make sense.
I don't think God would mind.
Shaz
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Oakspear
Yup Shaz & Cat...my position exactly!
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Danny
That is where the rub lies. OM rarly uses the bible. It's always a quote from his idol or idol group twi 1.
Hey oldies the freedom comes when you release yourself from the trap of those broken ways.
True peace can only come from the prince of peace.
Oldies of all that you have written over the years how many times or have you every tryed to help any one by giving them a truth from the bible? From my sitting spot OM=love for twi 1 and vp. Have you ever developed a true relationship with God? Are you just doing what the old pfal said? Whatevere dude keep it all baby, bath water, fish, bones, idols when it's all said and done you will still be calling some of us liars because vp was such a great man.
By his grace we were saved. The sad part you exchanged His God's grace for VPs. Thank God vp showed up with pfal.
I say thank God that he showed up with his savior Jesus Christ.
Very sad you know more quotes from a drunk egotist than the true God. Maybe that's the rub. Some where you learned as a good RC not the have false God's before me.
I think it says another place from the abundance of the heart the mouth speak. What is your heart filled with? I honestly can not remeber you reaching out to help anyone here but to be that crtic and prove how wonderful it all was.
I pray my life is not filled in a delusion and when somone sees me are read me is not a big mess.
Your line in the begining of all of this said WE all leaned the Worrrrrrrrd. It apears not all. Get a pair of sisorrs and cut the brush a little the stoke was to big. My whole point here is vps word does not equal God's word. If there is such a thing.
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WordWolf
I just wanted a record that Oldies admitted that vpw did "evil works."
Even though it's such a bland term for
rape
molestation
fraud
greed
hubris
indulging vices on God's dime
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WordWolf
Granted,
he still wants to say it was ok for vpw to be a part-time sinner and a
part-time holder of a tremendous spiritual responsibility to God and for
His people, but this was an admission that there were "secret evil things"
and sexual transgressions".
The next time these are denied, I can bring this back.
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WordWolf
Those who WANT deliverance, Catcup, can do this.
Those who DON'T want deliverance, Catcup, won't do this.
They'd rather just block out the more evil events, and pretend the
rest of us didnt notice events that looked totally virtuous and innocent.
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WordWolf
Shaz,
are you suggesting the cognitive dissonance of trying to reconcile doing
very godly, altruistic things at one hour,
and committing criminal acts and sexual violations the next hour,
would make it impossible, in the long run,
to function in a healthy, godly fashion?
I agree. Any psychologist worth his salt could tell anyone that,
albeit in more technical, nonreligious terms.
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WordWolf
I thought this post had some good points, Danny, so forgive me for editing.
I mostly added punctuation and some spaces, and fixed typos.
Now more people can get more out of it.
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oldiesman
Thanks for your sharing.
:)-->
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rascal
But but BUT.... The power WOULDN`T have corrupted had wierwille been a man of the spirit. ..PERIOD ....yet another attempt to excuse heinous behavior and make it seem understandable..
These behaviors will hold no apeal to one of the spirit...THAT is how you can TELL whether or not someone is *of the spirit*...Duh
If you personally feel oldies, that sometimes you have a tough time *controlling yourself* or not exhibiting some of these behaviors....there for wierwilles succumbing is understandable.....that would explain why you wouldn`t want to accept galations explanation of vp`s being of the flesh.....you would prefer to think of yourself.. vp many of his hand picked leaders as simply *part time* sinners...sounds a lot nicer than *man of the flesh with no inheritance in the kingdom of God*
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CoolWaters
Yeah! What rascal said!
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shazdancer
oldies,
You said
Yup, I have sinned, too, but never wanted to trick young people into having sex with me -- have you?I have never said I was especially chosen of God to deliver His Word like it has not been seen since the first century, yada yada. No snow on my gas pumps. But even without such great confirmation that there is a God, I just don't live like that. Do you? Yet Wierwille claims to have had a huge confirmation of God's existence, yet it did nothing to improve his life, apparently. (Mike would have us believe that he was an improvement over what he would have been without God. I guess then he would have been a mass murderer or something. Not exactly a candidate for Twig leader, much less MOGFODAT.)
At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseum: the Bible says God gives His revelation to holy men. Wierwille was not a holy man. Even you admit this, oldies.
And if there was no one to keep him in check, whose idea was that? Who set up the organization to begin with? Who fired those who tried to talk to him?
So now you want to say that the power did it. In other words, when God calls someone and gives him special revelation, a special gift ministry, he's gonna get corrupt -- it's the power's fault. Hmm, made me think of Paul. Wierwille liked to compare himself with Paul a lot, remember? Paul was full of corrupt political power before meeting Christ on the road to Damascus. But somehow, he became the humblest of the humble afterward. So much for the "power corrupts" theory....
Wierwille's dichotomy does not seem enigmatic at all if you understand anything about personality disorder. He fits the profile to a T. His actions truly spoke louder than his words.
Shaz
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excathedra
pffffffffffffft
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rascal
Very interesting....wierwille came up with a ministry and doctrine that ALLOWED himself and those he chose to indulge in immoral at times even criminal behavior without impunity!
Pretty darn clever to find a way to make the indulgance of your vices acceptable and appear even Godly....in DIRECT contradiction of the scriptures that you utilise in order to appear as a spiritually healthy organisation....whew
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oldiesman
If you want to take each and every jot and tittle of his teachings and examine them to see if they make sense and are true, that's your right and privilege. Go ahead. I am not of the view that just because Wierwille said something, that it must be true, and therefore, is exempt from examination ...
On the other hand, if some of his teachings are accepted as truth, I believe they stand alone and are truth alone irrespective of how he lived his life. In that case, he didn't use his best efforts to adhere to the teachings in practice and wasn't the man he knew he should be. But truth is still truth.
If you or anyone else comes up with something that makes more sense than the truths we already received, I'm all ears.
But saying Wierwille was psychotic is virtually meaningless at this point. Reminds me of something John Lynn said: we are free from Egypt, and "took the gold."
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rascal
Ummm lessee what do we define as truth...wierwille taught so many outragious things in order to justify the sating of his lusts...He had no moral compass...showed himselfto be of very poor character...and was shown to have had very little integrety...
It seems very silly to trust anything he taught...or defined as *truth* ...it would be foolhardy to entrust the well being of our spiritual souls to any possible truths that a man such as he might have managed to keep from contaminating.
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Oakspear
Hmm...Oldies throws out some of what Wierwille taught, but that's just because it "makes sense" and "nothing better has come along"...anyone else throws out some of what Wierwille taught andthey are "renouncing 'The Word' because of Wierwille's sins".
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oldiesman
I didn't say "anyone else" or "everyone else", I said some folks. Nice try, Oakspear.
It looks to me like some of these folks expressing themselves on these threads have dumped every teaching twi had to offer, because of Wierwille's transgressions. The Leaven Principle, I guess. If that doesn't apply to you, Oakspear, it doesn't apply. I didn't suggest otherwise. That's up to you to admit or deny.
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rascal
And NOW it`s *dumped every teaching that twi ever taught* because of wierwille`s transgressions ... that is quite a far cry from *renouncing the word* because of others sins .......as you accused us of before.
Not the same at all.
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