"I am so very thankful to be no longer eating the pure .... that the XXXXXX Church was serving and able to enjoy the .... laced brownies that God so surely had a hand in baking. I know that dmiller had some errors in his brownies, but I take that brownie and carefully remove the .... using my exacto knife. What fools you all are for renouncing dmiller's brownies simply based on his sin"
what i find odd is that people would expect someone like me to sift through my experiences with dr. wierwille and the way ministry to find some kind of truth
do i need to validate where they are coming from ? i think not
i only have my life, my mind, my experience
and it was pretty awful
does that mean i NEVER heard a true statement in THE CLASS or in THE CORPS ?
i've heard so many good "principles" from people during my life, but i never had to justify abuse.... except on waydale and here
are you guys crazy ? don't you think i know what rings true in life ? BIG DEAL
Actually, the Book of Job is pretty much ALL ABOUT God's tolerance of evil and abuse, until such time as He could demonstrate His power and goodness.
Sadly, in ExC's case (and others'), it seems that the evil and abuse came AFTER the good. At the risk of jump-starting Oldiesman again (and another round of brownies analogies), I don't think it's fair to begrudge others the learning or blessing they may have received in TWI. I really do wish it could have been all "sweetness and light."
I pray for all of you who have opened your hearts, not that you would change your opinions of TWI (which would mean ignoring your own experiences), but that you can all be fully healed from the pain.
Of course Job, was the one book (and the gospels) that TWI couldnt ever square with what they wanted the doctrine to be. So they said Job simply had to much "fear" instead of "faith" and thats why things collapsed around him. This was one of the biggest doctrinal snowjobs ever.
Yeah, well y`all forget that ya gotta eat and enjoy dmillers brownies because I have heard that there really isn`t any OTHER brownies being baked out there worth enjoying.
I am very dissapointed that y`all can`t find it in your heart to forgive dmiller his transgression and just enjoy his brownies....WHERE is your gratitude?
shame on you all....
Ex 10th agreed, God wouldn`t allow some to suffer, thats what the whole lost sheep story is about...the preciousness of each sheep in his flock.....
Excathedra, I am amazed at your patience with folks.
One of several things that makes me sad about Exie being pushed to accept abusive people is that it shows there is still a market for TWI. It doesn't appear that the planet has run out of folks willing to justify/ignore hurting others to satisfy themselves.
N so WHAT if DMiller makes a fortune selling his brownies to us...and as we sell to our friends and family....
Don`t let the fact that He talked us into providing the ingredients...used our electrictiy to bake them...baked them in our ovens....used our utensils to serve them on in OUR homes utilizing our furniture to make people compfy with...and made available milk that WE bought with our money to wash em all down with....AND our tp for folks to wipe their buts with after elimination of said brownies in our toilets......distract you from the reality that the brownies are being presented for the good of all consumers every where.
It`s our duty and obligation to aid dmiller in any way we can...doncha see?
Darn right he deserves every penny of that money accrued by the sales to buy for himself motor coaches, lincolns, airplanes and harleys to travel around the country and sell yet MORE brownies to the poor fools out here whom assume that store bought brownies and homecooked grannies brownies are sadly inferior simply because they are missing the secret ingredient.
How dare we renounce dmiller, his brownies, OR deny others the opportunity to enjoy the unique flavor of such a special treat.
Thanks rascal for getting the point. George, you are comparing apples to oranges, when bringing up the book of Job. That has nothing to do with so-called ministers of the church, abusing their flock.
Hello folks! Did ya miss me? My employers love me Danny. :)-->
dmiller:
quote:Oldies, you must be hungry by now, after all these pages of "discussion". I just baked some brownies, Am using the best chocolate, extra sugar, going with the "sinfully" rich and creamy frosting, using extra eggs, and oh yes -- am adding 1 cup of dog poop to it as well, but it is just a small portion of the entire recipe, so it won't contaminate the whole batch.
If you believe your statement above, I'd like to serve you some home-made brownies.
dmiller, the Brownie Principle doesn't apply to what we are discussing. Let's say the truth represents all the "goodies" in your mix, those good ingredients, and the doggie doo represents VPW sins, or VPW errors, or both.
So you're saying that the goodies are inextricably tangled in with the baddies?
Says who?
Why can't we bake a cake with the goodies only?
(This is what JAL means when he says to eat the fish and spit out the bones) duh?
Besides, my reading of I Cor. 5, talks about present tense removal of the bad leaven so that we may have a new lump.
This appears to be speaking to Christians to remove the bad seed among them, so that there may be a new lump.
1Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Cr 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,
1Cr 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.
1Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Lemme repeat this one:
1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.
So I guess it's possible to still keep the feast and purge out the doggoe doo?
Let's keep the feast, but without the doggie doo. That's what the Leaven Principle means to me.
I think some of you folks are misapplying this idea, cause your just too hung up on the sins of Wierwille and the bot that you can't get past that and therefore justify throwing out everything, even truth. Go ahead, if that's what you want ...
But ya can't blame CES, CFF, or anyone else, for wanting to keep the goodies.
Thanks rascal for getting the point. George, you are comparing apples to oranges, when bringing up the book of Job. That has nothing to do with so-called ministers of the church, abusing their flock.
Duh.
Though that wasn't my point, Ex10, I should point out that Job's "friends" and the self-appointed prophet, Elihu, did most of the abusing.
I took your previous comment to be more general in nature. Sorry if I didn't interpret it in light of the full context.
Oldies...have you ever made a batch of brownies? When you mix the ingredients they become inextricably mixed...you cannot seperate the ingredients...Sure, you can cut off a corner here and there and CLAIM that you have cut out the bad stuff....but that does not change the essence of the ingredients of the brownies in any way.......you are still eating sh-t and claiming to love it...
What we here are saying is that you oughtta chuck that whole contaminated batch, start over with fresh ingredients, oversee the preperation personally, and THEN you may enjoy the wholesom tasty brownies. Sure, it takes a little bit of time and effort, but the end result is definatly well worth it, as all here who have sampled the wholesom brownies, are attesting to.
Untill then, you are just hording the sh-t that nobody else wants anymore, now that they know what good brownies taste like when prepared with wholesom ingredients.
Rascal, twi is still there, CES, CFF, other offshoots; that seems to be lots of folks who are around still eating sh_t.
As pointed out earlier by someone, I think it was Johniam, you're doing exactly what TWI used to do and maybe still does... tendency to condemn others for their beliefs thinking that YOURS has to be the best and others are way off.
Why not live and let live? twi believers and offshoots and others are believers just like you; trying to live the best they can. ...
What a twist oldies YOU are truly an artist..lmao...it was YOU who started this whole silly thread condemning those of us who no longer hold YOUR values.....accusing those of us who no longer accept wierwilles dogma.... of renouncing the word because of others sins...LMAO!
An assertion incidently, that was been proven incorrect, as most of us have explained that we began questioning the dogma years before ever learning of the evil practiced by vp and his leaders.....not that I expect an apology for your misrepresentation of the posters here....
YOU are the one that demonstrates intolerance by the very title of your thread.....LOl you are a master Oldies, You are so damned intolerant of everyone elses view, that you have to label us liars, exagerating and manufacturing evils in order to maintain your story book wholesom image of a destructive evil organization........and yet ...lol you have the b-lls to accuse the folks whom profoundly disagree with your assesment as intolerant....lmao
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"I am so very thankful to be no longer eating the pure .... that the XXXXXX Church was serving and able to enjoy the .... laced brownies that God so surely had a hand in baking. I know that dmiller had some errors in his brownies, but I take that brownie and carefully remove the .... using my exacto knife. What fools you all are for renouncing dmiller's brownies simply based on his sin"
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TheEvan
Wm. Shakespeare obviously "got it" as witnessed by this:
But then I sigh and, with piece of scripture,
Tell then that God bids us do good for evil;
And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With odd old ends stol'n forth of Holy Writ,
And seem a saint when most I play the devil.
(from Richard III)
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excathedra
what i find odd is that people would expect someone like me to sift through my experiences with dr. wierwille and the way ministry to find some kind of truth
do i need to validate where they are coming from ? i think not
i only have my life, my mind, my experience
and it was pretty awful
does that mean i NEVER heard a true statement in THE CLASS or in THE CORPS ?
i've heard so many good "principles" from people during my life, but i never had to justify abuse.... except on waydale and here
are you guys crazy ? don't you think i know what rings true in life ? BIG DEAL
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ex10
Amen sistah ex
As if God Almighty has to tolerate evil and abuse for good to come about. What a freakin lie.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Actually, the Book of Job is pretty much ALL ABOUT God's tolerance of evil and abuse, until such time as He could demonstrate His power and goodness.
Sadly, in ExC's case (and others'), it seems that the evil and abuse came AFTER the good. At the risk of jump-starting Oldiesman again (and another round of brownies analogies), I don't think it's fair to begrudge others the learning or blessing they may have received in TWI. I really do wish it could have been all "sweetness and light."
I pray for all of you who have opened your hearts, not that you would change your opinions of TWI (which would mean ignoring your own experiences), but that you can all be fully healed from the pain.
George
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sky4it
George StGeorge:
Of course Job, was the one book (and the gospels) that TWI couldnt ever square with what they wanted the doctrine to be. So they said Job simply had to much "fear" instead of "faith" and thats why things collapsed around him. This was one of the biggest doctrinal snowjobs ever.
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excathedra
i don't begrudge anyone anything
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sky4it
excath:
your comment:
are you guys crazy ? don't you think i know what rings true in life ? BIG DEAL
I hope you didnt think I was making fun of you. I wasnt trying to. I just found oaks comment to humorous to resist.
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excathedra
i didn't think you were, thank you
:)-->
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Danny
I guess OM didn't like brownies.
If it was a bible verse he could of just said you arn't appling it correctly.
Brownies he couldn't even come up with no thank you.
Maybe his boss read all the sh..t he has put in there computer and didn't want brownies either.
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rascal
Yeah, well y`all forget that ya gotta eat and enjoy dmillers brownies because I have heard that there really isn`t any OTHER brownies being baked out there worth enjoying.
I am very dissapointed that y`all can`t find it in your heart to forgive dmiller his transgression and just enjoy his brownies....WHERE is your gratitude?
shame on you all....
Ex 10th agreed, God wouldn`t allow some to suffer, thats what the whole lost sheep story is about...the preciousness of each sheep in his flock.....
Excathedra, I am amazed at your patience with folks.
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JustThinking
One of several things that makes me sad about Exie being pushed to accept abusive people is that it shows there is still a market for TWI. It doesn't appear that the planet has run out of folks willing to justify/ignore hurting others to satisfy themselves.
JT
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rascal
N so WHAT if DMiller makes a fortune selling his brownies to us...and as we sell to our friends and family....
Don`t let the fact that He talked us into providing the ingredients...used our electrictiy to bake them...baked them in our ovens....used our utensils to serve them on in OUR homes utilizing our furniture to make people compfy with...and made available milk that WE bought with our money to wash em all down with....AND our tp for folks to wipe their buts with after elimination of said brownies in our toilets......distract you from the reality that the brownies are being presented for the good of all consumers every where.
It`s our duty and obligation to aid dmiller in any way we can...doncha see?
Darn right he deserves every penny of that money accrued by the sales to buy for himself motor coaches, lincolns, airplanes and harleys to travel around the country and sell yet MORE brownies to the poor fools out here whom assume that store bought brownies and homecooked grannies brownies are sadly inferior simply because they are missing the secret ingredient.
How dare we renounce dmiller, his brownies, OR deny others the opportunity to enjoy the unique flavor of such a special treat.
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GarthP2000
Rascal,
That was one of the best, uhmm, ... 'brownie' nosing messages I've seen yet.
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rascal
TVM Garth, Ya think I can get im to line me up with a franchise if I kiss up enough?
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ex10
Geeze
Thanks rascal for getting the point. George, you are comparing apples to oranges, when bringing up the book of Job. That has nothing to do with so-called ministers of the church, abusing their flock.
Duh.
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GarthP2000
TVM?
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rascal
Borrowed from cool waters...TVM thankyou Very Much...lol.
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oldiesman
Hello folks! Did ya miss me? My employers love me Danny.
:)-->
dmiller:
dmiller, the Brownie Principle doesn't apply to what we are discussing. Let's say the truth represents all the "goodies" in your mix, those good ingredients, and the doggie doo represents VPW sins, or VPW errors, or both.So you're saying that the goodies are inextricably tangled in with the baddies?
Says who?
Why can't we bake a cake with the goodies only?
(This is what JAL means when he says to eat the fish and spit out the bones) duh?
Besides, my reading of I Cor. 5, talks about present tense removal of the bad leaven so that we may have a new lump.
This appears to be speaking to Christians to remove the bad seed among them, so that there may be a new lump.
1Cr 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Cr 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Cr 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,
1Cr 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.
1Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Lemme repeat this one:
1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.
So I guess it's possible to still keep the feast and purge out the doggoe doo?
Let's keep the feast, but without the doggie doo. That's what the Leaven Principle means to me.
I think some of you folks are misapplying this idea, cause your just too hung up on the sins of Wierwille and the bot that you can't get past that and therefore justify throwing out everything, even truth. Go ahead, if that's what you want ...
But ya can't blame CES, CFF, or anyone else, for wanting to keep the goodies.
Let's make that cake dmiller ... mmmmmmmmmmmm
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GeorgeStGeorge
Though that wasn't my point, Ex10, I should point out that Job's "friends" and the self-appointed prophet, Elihu, did most of the abusing.
I took your previous comment to be more general in nature. Sorry if I didn't interpret it in light of the full context.
George
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rascal
Oldies...have you ever made a batch of brownies? When you mix the ingredients they become inextricably mixed...you cannot seperate the ingredients...Sure, you can cut off a corner here and there and CLAIM that you have cut out the bad stuff....but that does not change the essence of the ingredients of the brownies in any way.......you are still eating sh-t and claiming to love it...
What we here are saying is that you oughtta chuck that whole contaminated batch, start over with fresh ingredients, oversee the preperation personally, and THEN you may enjoy the wholesom tasty brownies. Sure, it takes a little bit of time and effort, but the end result is definatly well worth it, as all here who have sampled the wholesom brownies, are attesting to.
Untill then, you are just hording the sh-t that nobody else wants anymore, now that they know what good brownies taste like when prepared with wholesom ingredients.
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oldiesman
Rascal, twi is still there, CES, CFF, other offshoots; that seems to be lots of folks who are around still eating sh_t.
As pointed out earlier by someone, I think it was Johniam, you're doing exactly what TWI used to do and maybe still does... tendency to condemn others for their beliefs thinking that YOURS has to be the best and others are way off.
Why not live and let live? twi believers and offshoots and others are believers just like you; trying to live the best they can. ...
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excathedra
i live and let live
i'm not sure about all my beliefs
what's wrong with disagreeing about "the way" ?
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rascal
What a twist oldies YOU are truly an artist..lmao...it was YOU who started this whole silly thread condemning those of us who no longer hold YOUR values.....accusing those of us who no longer accept wierwilles dogma.... of renouncing the word because of others sins...LMAO!
An assertion incidently, that was been proven incorrect, as most of us have explained that we began questioning the dogma years before ever learning of the evil practiced by vp and his leaders.....not that I expect an apology for your misrepresentation of the posters here....
YOU are the one that demonstrates intolerance by the very title of your thread.....LOl you are a master Oldies, You are so damned intolerant of everyone elses view, that you have to label us liars, exagerating and manufacturing evils in order to maintain your story book wholesom image of a destructive evil organization........and yet ...lol you have the b-lls to accuse the folks whom profoundly disagree with your assesment as intolerant....lmao
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