Oldies...You are COMPLETELY mistaken, again...sheeshe....I began to reexamine twi doctrine years after leaving twi but several years before I EVER heard of any of the transgressions of the twi leaders.
I was absolutely CLUELESS at that point concerning the evils practiced by the bot....matter of fact you n me wouldda been on the same side not TOO long ago....
I maintained a staunch belief in twi/wierwilles teachings for a long time after twi...thinking that the only thing wrong with twi is that they didn`t want me!
Another premiss of yours that is proven entirely wrong oldies...
Do you see this guys??? Oldies wants it to appear as if we just arbitrarily dumped holy scripture for some silly petty little reason...
What you are in TRUTH doing Oldies, is attempting to completely negate the work of God in our lives and the direction that HE has led us on our journey since leaving the anemic spiritual environment that was the wasteland of twi dogma......
Poor oldies I leave you sitting on a bench, fiercely clinging to your cold lifeless baby doll...determined not to budge one step further on your journey...determined to remain ...not knowing the joys that lie ahead for you...
Rascal, if there's any joy in your life, I wouldn't know it, cause most of all you accentuate, like a repetitive battering ram, are the sins of Wierwille at the bot. ...
Please do talk about your newfound joys and how one may obtain them, I'm all ears....
You are not aware of the joys in my life because you chose not to read those posts fella, You don`t WANT to see what others see.
My disgust with the actions of a man of the flesh mog wannabe is but a small facet of my thoughts....
My life has been scattered all over these forums...thread upon thread of my growth and epiphanies (ad nausium for some no doubt lol) .....the kids, the home in the country, good health...the horses, various and assundry critters that bring me happiness...the friends, the karate, the community...the rescue work.....the job...plenty of *stuff* that brings me happiness....on and on...blessings in every catagory......well the hubby can be border line trying at times....lol...Every so often...when I feel like I am completely content...that I have all I could ever want....I am suprised with yet another new found thing to bring joy.
I do not want it to seem as if I am bragging about each new accomplishment or obsticle overcome.....on the contrary...I am humbly gratefull for the blessings ....the priveleges accorded one who is unworthey.......
Oldies, I refuse to turn this into a ....ing contest of *God likes My way better because I got more stuff* than you...
The joy and blessings didn`t begin to accumulate because of what I did....it began because of what I QUIT doing.
My life does not fall in the catagory of *renouncing the word* though I absolutely advocate and have...the dumping of twi/wierwille/man of the flesh/wolf in sheeps clothing doctrines....
quote:Step One: Drop VPW and TWI material. Most, if not all of whatever truth that came from them was tainted/twisted/mangled to fit their own purposes.
Maybe that is what the Leaven Principle ultimately boils down to, ya think?
Yes, I think that's right, as it is being applied here. The Leaven Principle, as I understand it being applied here, is "a little bit of bad makes the whole thing bad."
I do not believe this. Here's basically what I stated before:
quote:Ok, let's apply the Leaven Principle. Shall we throw out the Book of Solomon (Proverbs), because Solomon was a sex addict?
I believe some of you might be misinterpreting the verses about leaven to mean that a little bad makes the whole thing bad. Some examples:
My job is sometimes hell, therefore everything about my job is bad because of a little hell.
My apartment is cold, therefore everything about my apartment is bad because the heater is malfunctioning.
My cat is sick, therefore everything about my relationship with my cat is bad cause he's sick.
My butt aches after driving over 100 consecutive miles on my motorcycle, therefore everything about my motorcycle experience is bad.
Thomas Jefferson had slaves, therefore everything about his life is bad cause he had slaves.
Mozart had sexual perversions, so that makes everything he did bad cause of his perversions.
Wierwille committed disgusting sins at various points in his life, therefore everything about his life and teachings are bad ...
Nah, I don't believe it.
But I do believe the verses about leaven in context are talking about present tense removing those who cause trouble in the church.
That's the way I read it in the context.
The truths we learned in twi weren't tainted or twisted, but stand by themselves.
You don't even need TWI today, to stand and believe these truths. Truth is truth.
I believe the question should be, "is it the truth, or isn't it"?
EVERYTHING taught by a man of the flesh is suspect oldies....
That is why you must begin afresh...Catcup is right....he will reestablish what is important.
Untill then, your mind will be so fogged with false doctrine and half truths that it will be extremely difficult for you to NOT be deaf to the very voice of God.
While you are immersed in wierwille dogma, in all likelyhood you will be following the course of a *man of the flesh*...it will be terribly difficult to recieve the things of the *spirit*
quote:Untill then, your mind will be so fogged with false doctrine and half truths that it will be extremely difficult for you to NOT be deaf to the very voice of God.
While you are immersed in wierwille dogma, in all likelyhood you will be following the course of a *man of the flesh*...it will be terribly difficult to recieve the things of the *spirit*
quote:if you cannot trust the man in that which was small..
Well that would certainly be a big mistake. See Psalm 118:8.
BTW, the principle of tithing works Oldies. I personally know someone who tithes OVER $2,000.00 a month. If that is only 10% of his monthly income, then how much does he make a month? He probably tithes more in a month than what most people make - and those people are usually the ones who complain the most about the law of tithing not working.
The reason tithing never worked in TWI is they kept propounding the love of money was evil, (i.e. if you were seeking to be rich you were putting money ahead of God) which naturally leads people to think evil about having money, so TWI really never helped people in that category of their life in practical terms. It is hypocritcal of a church to ask 10% and above of someones income, but then never teach or give people practical instructions on HOW to increase there income by at least that amount.
The reason I don't reply to people like rascal (or post here very often) is because most people only want to argue their point of view instead of asking questions. I am not saying they are unintelligent or their points of view aren't valid - they only want to argue their point of view.
I find there are so many "intelligent" people who argue or defend when a new idea or point of view clashes with the way they think. In this case their so-called "intelligence" combined with their "arrogance" equals "ignorance". Arrogant (critical) people are often people you will find with low self-esteem, people who are afraid of taking risks - consequently afraid of making mistakes.
Did VPW make mistakes? Heck, he probably made more than anybody. But in order to learn something new one is required to make mistakes in order to fully understand what they have learned. That doesn't mean I have to repeat them, but one can certainly learn from their mistakes as well as the mistakes that others have made.
So what if some people want to throw out everything they learned in TWI. You know what they are telling me? They are saying they are arrogant - that what they learned in TWI is not important and then they use their arrogance to hide their ignorance.
I see the same thing occur when I am discussing financial statements with accountants and other investors. There are a many people in the world of money, finances and investments who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Most people in the money industry are just spouting off sales pitches - much like used car salesmen. They act like a lot of people here.
What are people selling here? They are out to "sell" everybody that VPW was nothing but a loathsome corrupt individual - likewise with LCM/TWI/ETC. Does that mean they are lying? I didn't say they were. They're not lying, but then, they are not telling the truth either because they are throwing that one out as well.
Too bad about the saints that had to pay for the *mistakes* old vp made while he was supposed to be learning along the way, eh WTH? ...guess that they were all expendable in God`s plan as long as vpw was learning ?
Now why couldn`t *I* see that before??
I cannot tell you how dissapointed I am that you don`t value my pov enough to address the valid issues....snort
You are pretty funny though ...so filled up with your own pompousness...as IF you are denying us some great treat by witholding your great pearls of wisdom in not posting often...(anybody else sobbing brokenly in dissapointment?) Your twi arrogance is showing wth, you musta been pretty high up in the food chain in twi to have developed such an inflated opinion of yourself and your beliefs.
Some people unfortunately will never get it (learn) as long as they have someone else to blame for their decisions. It is always VPW (or somebody else) it could never be me! Those people aren't even true to themselves, so why would they be truthful with anyone else?
I've accepted the fact there are people in this world who don't want to take responsibility for the decisions they've made so all they do is blame other people for their bad decisions. As long as they have somebody else to blame they'll never learn. If you want to feel sorry for them then that's your problem.
quote:Oakspear, because Wierwille has lied in his life, you throw out everything he ever taught, because everything is untrustworthy he taught, because Wierwille lied.
Sounds to me like you, Oakspear, have abandoned the truths you learned in twi, because of Wierwille's sins...So I conclude you threw out the baby with the bathwater because of Wierwille's sins. Your reason: he lied.
Do you ever really read what people post?
I can't believe that you are as moronic and dense as you appear Oldies. Nobody is that stupid.
I guess that would be a very convenient way to assuage ones guilty conscious for wrongs committed wth.
Lemmee get this straight now... vp destroyed countless lives because of his choice to live as a man of the flesh...we need to chalk it up to *mistakes* and it`s still OUR fault???
We shouldn`t have been so foolish as to trust him when he promised to teach us all the answeres to life and Godliness???
Guess that is a problem with teens wth, they tend to be naieve and trust in anothers altruism...shame on us.
Why are you mad at US for being disgusted by what VP did?
Some people unfortunately will never get it (learn) as long as they have someone else to blame for their decisions. It is always VPW (or somebody else) it could never be me!
I've accepted the fact there are people in the world who don't want to take responsibility for the decisions they've made so all they do is blame other people for their bad decisions. As long as they have somebody else to blame they'll never learn. If you want to feel sorry for them then that's your problem.
so why in the FRICK do you not apply the SAME standard to vic, wth????? huh??? maybe you never heard him .... and moan about others; I sure and H did....
ps-- forget it, don't bother....you are simply NOT worth wasting time on...you were the same one slobberin' all over the guy when he was around... makes me sick now, made me sick then...
quote:if you cannot trust the man in that which was small..
Well that would certainly be a big mistake. See Psalm 118:8.
(SNIP)
**************************
"""The reason I don't reply to people like rascal (or post here very often)""" ...
is because most people only want to argue their point of view instead of asking questions. I am not saying they are unintelligent or their points of view aren't valid - they only want to argue their point of view. (SNIP)
I was 17 years old...someone promised to teach me the bible.
I trusted the people who taught me the bible ..
I got screwed by the people who won my trust with the scriptures.
I do not understand where I am at fault.
I do not understand why you find me/us so culpable, and yet brand the people who utilized deception to harm us, as folks who simply made some *mistakes*
Why is my gullibility, my naivety cause for such vitriol on your part, while the perpetrators of the betrayal are worthey of respect?
Why do you see my anger and disgust of such a gravid betrayal, as one who is blaming others for their poor choices?
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oldiesman
Search your feelings, you KNOW it to be true ...
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rascal
Oldies...You are COMPLETELY mistaken, again...sheeshe....I began to reexamine twi doctrine years after leaving twi but several years before I EVER heard of any of the transgressions of the twi leaders.
I was absolutely CLUELESS at that point concerning the evils practiced by the bot....matter of fact you n me wouldda been on the same side not TOO long ago....
I maintained a staunch belief in twi/wierwilles teachings for a long time after twi...thinking that the only thing wrong with twi is that they didn`t want me!
Another premiss of yours that is proven entirely wrong oldies...
Do you see this guys??? Oldies wants it to appear as if we just arbitrarily dumped holy scripture for some silly petty little reason...
What you are in TRUTH doing Oldies, is attempting to completely negate the work of God in our lives and the direction that HE has led us on our journey since leaving the anemic spiritual environment that was the wasteland of twi dogma......
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rascal
Poor oldies I leave you sitting on a bench, fiercely clinging to your cold lifeless baby doll...determined not to budge one step further on your journey...determined to remain ...not knowing the joys that lie ahead for you...
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oldiesman
Rascal, if there's any joy in your life, I wouldn't know it, cause most of all you accentuate, like a repetitive battering ram, are the sins of Wierwille at the bot. ...
Please do talk about your newfound joys and how one may obtain them, I'm all ears....
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GarthP2000
Step One: Drop VPW and TWI material. Most, if not all of whatever truth that came from them was tainted/twisted/mangled to fit their own purposes.
Maybe that is what the Leaven Principle ultimately boils down to, ya think?
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rascal
You are not aware of the joys in my life because you chose not to read those posts fella, You don`t WANT to see what others see.
My disgust with the actions of a man of the flesh mog wannabe is but a small facet of my thoughts....
My life has been scattered all over these forums...thread upon thread of my growth and epiphanies (ad nausium for some no doubt lol) .....the kids, the home in the country, good health...the horses, various and assundry critters that bring me happiness...the friends, the karate, the community...the rescue work.....the job...plenty of *stuff* that brings me happiness....on and on...blessings in every catagory......well the hubby can be border line trying at times....lol...Every so often...when I feel like I am completely content...that I have all I could ever want....I am suprised with yet another new found thing to bring joy.
I do not want it to seem as if I am bragging about each new accomplishment or obsticle overcome.....on the contrary...I am humbly gratefull for the blessings ....the priveleges accorded one who is unworthey.......
Oldies, I refuse to turn this into a ....ing contest of *God likes My way better because I got more stuff* than you...
The joy and blessings didn`t begin to accumulate because of what I did....it began because of what I QUIT doing.
My life does not fall in the catagory of *renouncing the word* though I absolutely advocate and have...the dumping of twi/wierwille/man of the flesh/wolf in sheeps clothing doctrines....
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oldiesman
I do not believe this. Here's basically what I stated before:
The truths we learned in twi weren't tainted or twisted, but stand by themselves.
You don't even need TWI today, to stand and believe these truths. Truth is truth.
I believe the question should be, "is it the truth, or isn't it"?
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rascal
EVERYTHING taught by a man of the flesh is suspect oldies....
That is why you must begin afresh...Catcup is right....he will reestablish what is important.
Untill then, your mind will be so fogged with false doctrine and half truths that it will be extremely difficult for you to NOT be deaf to the very voice of God.
While you are immersed in wierwille dogma, in all likelyhood you will be following the course of a *man of the flesh*...it will be terribly difficult to recieve the things of the *spirit*
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oldiesman
Have you been taking lessons from Sylvia Browne?
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What The Hay
Well that would certainly be a big mistake. See Psalm 118:8.
BTW, the principle of tithing works Oldies. I personally know someone who tithes OVER $2,000.00 a month. If that is only 10% of his monthly income, then how much does he make a month? He probably tithes more in a month than what most people make - and those people are usually the ones who complain the most about the law of tithing not working.
The reason tithing never worked in TWI is they kept propounding the love of money was evil, (i.e. if you were seeking to be rich you were putting money ahead of God) which naturally leads people to think evil about having money, so TWI really never helped people in that category of their life in practical terms. It is hypocritcal of a church to ask 10% and above of someones income, but then never teach or give people practical instructions on HOW to increase there income by at least that amount.
The reason I don't reply to people like rascal (or post here very often) is because most people only want to argue their point of view instead of asking questions. I am not saying they are unintelligent or their points of view aren't valid - they only want to argue their point of view.
I find there are so many "intelligent" people who argue or defend when a new idea or point of view clashes with the way they think. In this case their so-called "intelligence" combined with their "arrogance" equals "ignorance". Arrogant (critical) people are often people you will find with low self-esteem, people who are afraid of taking risks - consequently afraid of making mistakes.
Did VPW make mistakes? Heck, he probably made more than anybody. But in order to learn something new one is required to make mistakes in order to fully understand what they have learned. That doesn't mean I have to repeat them, but one can certainly learn from their mistakes as well as the mistakes that others have made.
So what if some people want to throw out everything they learned in TWI. You know what they are telling me? They are saying they are arrogant - that what they learned in TWI is not important and then they use their arrogance to hide their ignorance.
I see the same thing occur when I am discussing financial statements with accountants and other investors. There are a many people in the world of money, finances and investments who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Most people in the money industry are just spouting off sales pitches - much like used car salesmen. They act like a lot of people here.
What are people selling here? They are out to "sell" everybody that VPW was nothing but a loathsome corrupt individual - likewise with LCM/TWI/ETC. Does that mean they are lying? I didn't say they were. They're not lying, but then, they are not telling the truth either because they are throwing that one out as well.
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rascal
I thought that you weren`t a fan of sarcasm oldies?
Can you not counter my points intellegently?
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alfakat
whatahay, you are really quite the entertainer...cept the act is getting a bit stale.
ya know, the one where you're the expert and have all the right answers and all. That act...
yes, I guess all those things viccers did were mistakes, yeah, that's the ticket!
He just did not "get" that extra-marital sex with impressionable, starry-eyed teens was biblically forbidden. A mistake, that...
He just did not "get" that copying other folks work and signing your name to it was theft and, again, biblically forbidden. 'nother mistake, that...
Asking for umarked envelopes full of cash taken from fellow Christian's love gifts *is* greed and lust, ding, also biblically forbidden.
YOU, SIR, are the one "selling" and intellectual snake oil is what you are offering.
I am sure CG could use you in his ministry, though....
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rascal
Too bad about the saints that had to pay for the *mistakes* old vp made while he was supposed to be learning along the way, eh WTH? ...guess that they were all expendable in God`s plan as long as vpw was learning ?
Now why couldn`t *I* see that before??
I cannot tell you how dissapointed I am that you don`t value my pov enough to address the valid issues....snort
You are pretty funny though ...so filled up with your own pompousness...as IF you are denying us some great treat by witholding your great pearls of wisdom in not posting often...(anybody else sobbing brokenly in dissapointment?) Your twi arrogance is showing wth, you musta been pretty high up in the food chain in twi to have developed such an inflated opinion of yourself and your beliefs.
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excathedra
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What The Hay
Some people unfortunately will never get it (learn) as long as they have someone else to blame for their decisions. It is always VPW (or somebody else) it could never be me! Those people aren't even true to themselves, so why would they be truthful with anyone else?
I've accepted the fact there are people in this world who don't want to take responsibility for the decisions they've made so all they do is blame other people for their bad decisions. As long as they have somebody else to blame they'll never learn. If you want to feel sorry for them then that's your problem.
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Oakspear
I can't believe that you are as moronic and dense as you appear Oldies. Nobody is that stupid.
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alfakat
waddaklown --
you are not a poltical office holder, are you???
you should be...
cuz you baffle with the best of 'em...
I would not go to church with you, even if it was the truth of God's Word...sound familiar, bub? huh??
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rascal
I guess that would be a very convenient way to assuage ones guilty conscious for wrongs committed wth.
Lemmee get this straight now... vp destroyed countless lives because of his choice to live as a man of the flesh...we need to chalk it up to *mistakes* and it`s still OUR fault???
We shouldn`t have been so foolish as to trust him when he promised to teach us all the answeres to life and Godliness???
Guess that is a problem with teens wth, they tend to be naieve and trust in anothers altruism...shame on us.
Why are you mad at US for being disgusted by what VP did?
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What The Hay
Here is your answer rascal:
Those people aren't even true to themselves, so why would they be truthful with anyone else?
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alfakat
so why in the FRICK do you not apply the SAME standard to vic, wth????? huh??? maybe you never heard him .... and moan about others; I sure and H did....
ps-- forget it, don't bother....you are simply NOT worth wasting time on...you were the same one slobberin' all over the guy when he was around... makes me sick now, made me sick then...
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rascal
Which people wth...Vp or the ones who trusted him?
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alfakat
and you would know, eh, GOD ALMIGHTY, your worshipfulnessness....
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alfakat
so, what up, waddahay--are you a liar?????
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rascal
I guess that I am puzzled...where was I at fault?
I was 17 years old...someone promised to teach me the bible.
I trusted the people who taught me the bible ..
I got screwed by the people who won my trust with the scriptures.
I do not understand where I am at fault.
I do not understand why you find me/us so culpable, and yet brand the people who utilized deception to harm us, as folks who simply made some *mistakes*
Why is my gullibility, my naivety cause for such vitriol on your part, while the perpetrators of the betrayal are worthey of respect?
Why do you see my anger and disgust of such a gravid betrayal, as one who is blaming others for their poor choices?
Honest, I just don`t get it..
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