well this is good so they don't think they can do whatever the f they want
years and years ago (remember, igot?) i went insane about that gartmoor psycho-boy-busdriver telling someone he was never welcome at the way. then veepee dickhead tried to defend him without knowing the facts....
sometimes i wish the father in the word was around now. i would love to see how he would handle the lawsuits and the internet etc.
Excathedra, hi again. Had it been todays culture, some people from past years in TWI might have received prison sentences for thier actions. I mean, after all, look at the Kobe Bryant case, etc.
I knew one Limb Coordinator, for example, who used to routinely beat his pretty wife. They have long since divorced, but charges could have been filed, but weren't due to keeping things in house, lockbox crap, from what I understand.
Skyrider, I love your sense of humor. :D--> I'd hate to have some of their jobs with all that daily stress and pressure. Honestly, I would rather wash windows or something. :D-->
Besides spending all his time trying to visit Vic's grave, what else does Doug M. do? Is he part of a splinter group? I remember him from the old days...I think he was 2nd corps?...I know he was ordained in the early 70's.
...And what's the REAL reason why they wouldn't let him visit the damn grave? I mean, think about it...what harm would it do to twi to allow him to walk over to the grave, say a prayer, and leave? God Gawd! The ONLY reason I can think of is spite. Doesn't that "word of Gawd" that they teach, say something about putting away bitterness and encouraging forgiveness? How can they pretend to manifest God's love and grace when they refuse a former clergyman to visit Veepee grave???
Not to go off on a tangent but the only reason I affiliated with twi in the first place was because of their attitude of "there are no strangers here, only friends we haven't met yet". Everybody was welcome...open door policy...nothing to hide...we want to show God's love...come on in the doors always open. Today the place is guarded like the main oil refinery in Iraq...Who the FU*K would WANT to be around that place? Sorry but the people there now have GOT to be morons!
I dunno, perhaps the Way fears that the disembodied spirit of Saint Victor, after hovering about his corpse for 3 days, migrated into the tombstone where he now resides, imparting mystical revelation and wisdom to any sojourner who cares to visit and touch the cold headstone (as was believed in many ancient, primitive cultures, of which category New Knoxville may easily fall).... -->
When my 17 year old mutt passed away, two score and three years ago, I buried him in a wild field in the back of my house, between two scrawny pine trees. Little did I realize at the time, that that part of the field consisting of these pine trees actually belonged to my neighbor, Mr.Smith, who later started mowing and taming that part of his land.
But Mr. Smith has never had an issue with me about walking out to those two pine trees in his yard to smoke a cigarette and pay my respects to my deceased mutt, or with chasing his cats shortly thereafter.
For goodness sakes, the Way ought to follow the Godly example of my neighbor, Mr. Smith!
Besides spending all his time trying to visit Vic's grave, what else does Doug M. do? Is he part of a splinter group?
(snip)
[Actually, the issue was not that he wanted to visit vpw's grave. The issue was access to "the way woods" where other people were buried, and some people are not permitted to pay their respects in a dignified manner.]
...And what's the REAL reason why they wouldn't let him visit the damn grave? I mean, think about it...what harm would it do to twi to allow him to walk over to the grave, say a prayer, and leave? God Gawd! The ONLY reason I can think of is spite. Doesn't that "word of Gawd" that they teach, say something about putting away bitterness and encouraging forgiveness? How can they pretend to manifest God's love and grace when they refuse a former clergyman to visit Veepee grave???
[Yes, they're being extremely petty. They're holding a grudge against everyone who left under any circumstance, and exercising what authority they can exercise to try to hurt them, no matter how irrational and self-defeating that is.]
Not to go off on a tangent but the only reason I affiliated with twi in the first place was because of their attitude of "there are no strangers here, only friends we haven't met yet". Everybody was welcome...open door policy...nothing to hide...we want to show God's love...come on in the doors always open. Today the place is guarded like the main oil refinery in Iraq...Who the FU*K would WANT to be around that place? Sorry but the people there now have GOT to be morons!
The real issues seem to be about the founders promises about the gravesites where regular members were buried in the way woods called the campfire area.
The founders promised access to all and the new regime have out of malicious and reprehensible retribution made access an ordeal to those that left, and only allow family members if access is given. You are .... out of luck if you are a friend of someone buried there and wish to pay respects.
Doug as I understand it was also a close friend of Don Wierwille and makes his yearly visit to pay his respects to the graves at TWI.
It is the height of unmitigated gaul and mental cruelty to deny people access to loved ones graves in the cough cough "protection of TWI's property rights". TWI doesn't own the remains of those buried there.
Don't you get it you ridiculous clowns at TWI who make believe that you represent God with your arrogant air of self importance. You don't represent the God of the Lord Jesus Christ. You represent satan whom you have pledged your allegience to. Your fruit is stinking up the planet.
There is nowhere that I know of in civilized society where access to gravesites on church property is limited by any church. TWI claims to be a church, but acts like members of the mafia over "their property"
TWI wouldn't know agape love if it bit them on the as*
Think about it... if they had just let Doug go pay his respects quietly and prayerfully - this never would have happened. That's all he wanted to do.
Agree with him or not, he really wasn't trying to start up a big brou-ha-ha, he just wanted to go do what many other people do when someone they loved and cared about passes away.
Personally, visiting a grave-site isn't my "thing". I'd rather remember the person's life and accomplishments than hang around the hole in the ground they're buried in. But that's me - not Doug.
This feud may have been initiated by Doug McM's visits - but it was escalated by TWI. They should have left well enough alone. We wouldn't have even heard about it then.
On principle, I think what they're doing is great, but it would be a shame to spend thousands and not win; hopefully they got some really good legal advice and have a better than 50/50 chance.
Minister, follower file lawsuit against their former church
Friday, October 01, 2004
Holly Zachariah
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
Local/State
ACCESS TO LOVED ONES’ GRAVES
Minister, follower file lawsuit against their former church
Friday, October 01, 2004
Holly Zachariah
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
Two former members of the Way International filed a lawsuit this week seeking access to a burial site at the religious organization’s private headquarters in western Ohio.
Doug McMullan, a former minister for the Way, and Shannon Bottoms, a former follower whose infant son’s remains are buried on the grounds, filed the lawsuit Wednesday in Shelby County Common Pleas Court.
The two seek access to the cemetery and damages of at least $15,000 — an amount great enough to discourage the Way from doing this again, McMullan said.
Benson A. Wolman, former chief of the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio, is representing the pair.
McMullan, of Mississippi, and Bottoms, of Tennessee, split from the organization many years ago, and since 2001, have fought for access to the Garden of Living Waters and an area known as the campfire, at the group’s headquarters near New Knoxville.
The Way in recent years began requiring people to submit requests in writing to visit the areas.
"I didn’t want it to come to this, but I don’t know what else to do," McMullan said. "I have to put the matter before a court and a jury and hope we get some peace and relief that way."
Calls to the Way were not returned Wednesday, but officials have said the campfire area —a roughly 15-foot diameter circle of mulch and dirt nestled in a clearing in the Way Woods — was never intended to be a public place of mourning.
The Garden of Living Waters marks the burial sites of the Way’s founder, Victor Paul Wierwille, his sons and several founding trustees. Church followers consider the fountain a spiritually important place, so access is limited, the Way has said.
McMullan, who is Bottoms’ minister, said the Wierwille family promised them they could always visit. In 1977, when Bottoms’ family still was counted among the Way followers, the ashes of her stillborn son, Matthew, were flown in and buried around the campfire ring.
In 2001, McMullan and others took their fight to the Ohio Cemetery Dispute Resolution Commission, which recommended that the Way review its regulations.
McMullan, who has twice been arrested when he tried to visit the sites, said any proceeds from the lawsuit will be used for medical expenses of Wierwille’s widow.
Unless Don was 2 people, or unless there was a typo in the article, (i.e., it should have read "son's"), then either the author got it wrong or THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SON BURIED THERE.
Well, one thing I know is some of my past is buried there. As well as some of my sweat from being on the plumbing crew and garbage crew for a whole year. My pay was $30 a month. :D-->
Recommended Posts
excathedra
well this is good so they don't think they can do whatever the f they want
years and years ago (remember, igot?) i went insane about that gartmoor psycho-boy-busdriver telling someone he was never welcome at the way. then veepee dickhead tried to defend him without knowing the facts....
sometimes i wish the father in the word was around now. i would love to see how he would handle the lawsuits and the internet etc.
he had it good
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
So, with all these lawsuits...... has the DAMAGE CONTROL DEPARTMENT moved next to the Trunk Dept?
Or, do they just daily meet in the conference room next to harve's office?
skyrider
Link to comment
Share on other sites
igotout
Excathedra, hi again. Had it been todays culture, some people from past years in TWI might have received prison sentences for thier actions. I mean, after all, look at the Kobe Bryant case, etc.
I knew one Limb Coordinator, for example, who used to routinely beat his pretty wife. They have long since divorced, but charges could have been filed, but weren't due to keeping things in house, lockbox crap, from what I understand.
Skyrider, I love your sense of humor.
:D--> I'd hate to have some of their jobs with all that daily stress and pressure. Honestly, I would rather wash windows or something. 
:D-->
John R.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
Unfortunately, those left "in" will never hear about these lawsuits unless they are afraid they will make the media in their particular location.
I sincerely hope that the twi(t)s continue losing millions upon millons of dollars to the people brave enough to fight these pharisees.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cherished Child
Hasn't there already been a favorable court ruling for The Way in this matter? Wasn't Doug M. fined and or jailed because of this ruling?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
Besides spending all his time trying to visit Vic's grave, what else does Doug M. do? Is he part of a splinter group? I remember him from the old days...I think he was 2nd corps?...I know he was ordained in the early 70's.
...And what's the REAL reason why they wouldn't let him visit the damn grave? I mean, think about it...what harm would it do to twi to allow him to walk over to the grave, say a prayer, and leave? God Gawd! The ONLY reason I can think of is spite. Doesn't that "word of Gawd" that they teach, say something about putting away bitterness and encouraging forgiveness? How can they pretend to manifest God's love and grace when they refuse a former clergyman to visit Veepee grave???
Not to go off on a tangent but the only reason I affiliated with twi in the first place was because of their attitude of "there are no strangers here, only friends we haven't met yet". Everybody was welcome...open door policy...nothing to hide...we want to show God's love...come on in the doors always open. Today the place is guarded like the main oil refinery in Iraq...Who the FU*K would WANT to be around that place? Sorry but the people there now have GOT to be morons!
...And Rivenbark, I hope you read this post!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheInvisibleDan
I dunno, perhaps the Way fears that the disembodied spirit of Saint Victor, after hovering about his corpse for 3 days, migrated into the tombstone where he now resides, imparting mystical revelation and wisdom to any sojourner who cares to visit and touch the cold headstone (as was believed in many ancient, primitive cultures, of which category New Knoxville may easily fall)....
-->
When my 17 year old mutt passed away, two score and three years ago, I buried him in a wild field in the back of my house, between two scrawny pine trees. Little did I realize at the time, that that part of the field consisting of these pine trees actually belonged to my neighbor, Mr.Smith, who later started mowing and taming that part of his land.
But Mr. Smith has never had an issue with me about walking out to those two pine trees in his yard to smoke a cigarette and pay my respects to my deceased mutt, or with chasing his cats shortly thereafter.
For goodness sakes, the Way ought to follow the Godly example of my neighbor, Mr. Smith!
Danny
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
The real issues seem to be about the founders promises about the gravesites where regular members were buried in the way woods called the campfire area.
The founders promised access to all and the new regime have out of malicious and reprehensible retribution made access an ordeal to those that left, and only allow family members if access is given. You are .... out of luck if you are a friend of someone buried there and wish to pay respects.
Doug as I understand it was also a close friend of Don Wierwille and makes his yearly visit to pay his respects to the graves at TWI.
It is the height of unmitigated gaul and mental cruelty to deny people access to loved ones graves in the cough cough "protection of TWI's property rights". TWI doesn't own the remains of those buried there.
Don't you get it you ridiculous clowns at TWI who make believe that you represent God with your arrogant air of self importance. You don't represent the God of the Lord Jesus Christ. You represent satan whom you have pledged your allegience to. Your fruit is stinking up the planet.
There is nowhere that I know of in civilized society where access to gravesites on church property is limited by any church. TWI claims to be a church, but acts like members of the mafia over "their property"
TWI wouldn't know agape love if it bit them on the as*
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hope R.
Think about it... if they had just let Doug go pay his respects quietly and prayerfully - this never would have happened. That's all he wanted to do.
Agree with him or not, he really wasn't trying to start up a big brou-ha-ha, he just wanted to go do what many other people do when someone they loved and cared about passes away.
Personally, visiting a grave-site isn't my "thing". I'd rather remember the person's life and accomplishments than hang around the hole in the ground they're buried in. But that's me - not Doug.
This feud may have been initiated by Doug McM's visits - but it was escalated by TWI. They should have left well enough alone. We wouldn't have even heard about it then.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
On principle, I think what they're doing is great, but it would be a shame to spend thousands and not win; hopefully they got some really good legal advice and have a better than 50/50 chance.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
igotout
Link to comment
Share on other sites
igotout
And From the Columbus Dispatch
ACCESS TO LOVED ONES’ GRAVES
Minister, follower file lawsuit against their former church
Friday, October 01, 2004
Holly Zachariah
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
Local/State
ACCESS TO LOVED ONES’ GRAVES
Minister, follower file lawsuit against their former church
Friday, October 01, 2004
Holly Zachariah
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
Two former members of the Way International filed a lawsuit this week seeking access to a burial site at the religious organization’s private headquarters in western Ohio.
Doug McMullan, a former minister for the Way, and Shannon Bottoms, a former follower whose infant son’s remains are buried on the grounds, filed the lawsuit Wednesday in Shelby County Common Pleas Court.
The two seek access to the cemetery and damages of at least $15,000 — an amount great enough to discourage the Way from doing this again, McMullan said.
Benson A. Wolman, former chief of the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio, is representing the pair.
McMullan, of Mississippi, and Bottoms, of Tennessee, split from the organization many years ago, and since 2001, have fought for access to the Garden of Living Waters and an area known as the campfire, at the group’s headquarters near New Knoxville.
The Way in recent years began requiring people to submit requests in writing to visit the areas.
"I didn’t want it to come to this, but I don’t know what else to do," McMullan said. "I have to put the matter before a court and a jury and hope we get some peace and relief that way."
Calls to the Way were not returned Wednesday, but officials have said the campfire area —a roughly 15-foot diameter circle of mulch and dirt nestled in a clearing in the Way Woods — was never intended to be a public place of mourning.
The Garden of Living Waters marks the burial sites of the Way’s founder, Victor Paul Wierwille, his sons and several founding trustees. Church followers consider the fountain a spiritually important place, so access is limited, the Way has said.
McMullan, who is Bottoms’ minister, said the Wierwille family promised them they could always visit. In 1977, when Bottoms’ family still was counted among the Way followers, the ashes of her stillborn son, Matthew, were flown in and buried around the campfire ring.
In 2001, McMullan and others took their fight to the Ohio Cemetery Dispute Resolution Commission, which recommended that the Way review its regulations.
McMullan, who has twice been arrested when he tried to visit the sites, said any proceeds from the lawsuit will be used for medical expenses of Wierwille’s widow.
hzachariah@dispatch.com
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve!
sons???
Hmmm, maybe there's something we don't know . . .
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GeorgeStGeorge
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GeorgeStGeorge
Maybe that's why we haven't heard from JP lately.
:D-->
George
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve!
Duh! Right, son - SINGULAR.
The article says sons - PLURAL.
See the difference?
son
sons
son
sons
son
sons
"Sons" means MORE THAN ONE.
Unless Don was 2 people, or unless there was a typo in the article, (i.e., it should have read "son's"), then either the author got it wrong or THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SON BURIED THERE.
Get it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
igotout
Well, The Way is not a multinational chemical corporation with revenues in the billions as yours probably is, George ..... far from it.
But both are probably quite "corrosive"
:D-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pjroberge
steve!
Take some valium and chill dude. Geesh, I know the difference. I figured it was a typo..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
igotout
Typo in their article, George.
Ha, I just got your joke. Believe me, JP is alive and healthy and living a blessed life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve!
Or it could mean that there was/were illegitimate son(s) buried there . . .
Link to comment
Share on other sites
igotout
Well, one thing I know is some of my past is buried there. As well as some of my sweat from being on the plumbing crew and garbage crew for a whole year. My pay was $30 a month.
:D-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
igotout
October 5th, Mr. McMullan will be visiting Way Headquarters again from what I understand.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.